Just how much does GT5(P) actually simulate?

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DragoonRaven

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Defeater-8
Just keeping this brief: we know that GT is a game with simulator-like physics. However, it's not very well known (at least to me) exactly how many variables are actually being simulated while playing the game - such as brake fade, tire deformation, bumpsteer, effect of any aerodynamic forces including crosswinds and slipstreaming, detrimental effects on an engine's overall efficiency due to heat, etc. I haven't played GT5P in a good long while (actually sold it), so I can't just boot it up and take a look, though I can't recall any of these. The last thing I really remember being somewhat simulator-like was GT4's tire wear, which seemed extremely basic.

Is it well known how many advanced variables have made their way into GT5? Or are already in GT5P? I believe tire deformation was confirmed in a screenshot (decompression of the sidewall while the car's corner was in the air following a bump).
 
sejtur
I dunno, ask Yamauchi.
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Nominated for Most Helpful Post of the Year.
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:lol:

But seriously, I don't think Yamauchi ever mentioned how many things are calcutlated in GT5P when driving, so I don't think anyone can answer it fully. You can slipstream, that's for sure.

And I don't even know what bumpsteer is...
 
Seems GT4 and maybe even GT3 had good tire deformation physics, its just its not there in the Graphical side. I remeber many years ago, either preview of GT4 or GT3 there was a video of suspension and Tire contact on screen, it was similar to Forza style graphs. I don't know why PD wont include the graphs in FULL game.. So it's there, they just don't show it to you.

Another one thing that GT5prologue represents best is the Mid Engine Cars, at high speed turns, you let off throttle, car spins out, just like in real life, in all other games this wont happen.

Tire wear? GT4 had it, but GT5 now promises Tire Heat, and Tire Wear to be more realistic even..

What else..
Wind? Yeah you can slipstream, we dont know if its bit over the top or not.. Also cars do slow down much at top speeds, for example you can't reach 200MPH in STi because of the wind, you can also hear it nicely. GT5Prologue is another SIM that you can hear WIND noise get louder as you get faster, not too many sims do that.

Well there will be a new physics engine, so it will be even more realistic over GT5Prologue.
 
NoxNoctis Umbra
Seems GT4 and maybe even GT3 had good tire deformation physics, its just its not there in the Graphical side. I remeber many years ago, either preview of GT4 or GT3 there was a video of suspension and Tire contact on screen, it was similar to Forza style graphs. I don't know why PD wont include the graphs in FULL game.. So it's there, they just don't show it to you.

Another one thing that GT5prologue represents best is the Mid Engine Cars, at high speed turns, you let off throttle, car spins out, just like in real life, in all other games this wont happen.

Tire wear? GT4 had it, but GT5 now promises Tire Heat, and Tire Wear to be more realistic even..

What else..
Wind? Yeah you can slipstream, we dont know if its bit over the top or not.. Also cars do slow down much at top speeds, for example you can't reach 200MPH in STi because of the wind, you can also hear it nicely. GT5Prologue is another SIM that you can hear WIND noise get louder as you get faster, not too many sims do that.

Well there will be a new physics engine, so it will be even more realistic over GT5Prologue.
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Nice....just how it should be. 👍👍
 
I have always wondered this as well... we here a lot of talk about physics engines and calculations and what not, but it would be interesting to see more under the hood if you will.
 
Devedander
I have always wondered this as well... we here a lot of talk about physics engines and calculations and what not, but it would be interesting to see more under the hood if you will.
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Same here... I think we'll never know. :indiff:
But at least Yamauchi won't be bragging about how many calculations they make per second, eh? :dopey:
 
There is some info about GT4 like "500 to 700 parameters define the driving characteristics of the car physics model".

So it is not official
 
Yeah who knows. But one thing for sure, GT5P and 4 have really gotten almost all tracks to few inches of accuracy, that adds simulation aspects as well, also we can compare track times to in game and real life to seconds as well. So that speaks for itself how physics are real so far.

By the way here is the video of something similar i was talking..
I still need to find the other one, but its almost the same thing.. and shows off the tire contact, power, etc etc..

 
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Well, I spent two years playing GT3 & GT4 religiously (about 10 hours a week). Finally I just went and bought a sports car and went to a track day.

By my second hot lap, I was nailing apexes, controlling the balance of the car with the throttle, and putting in times competitive with way more experienced drivers.

Some of the older guys let it be known that I was the fastest beginner they'd ever seen.

Was it me, or was it the 1000+ hours I spent in "The real driving simulator" before I even got in a real race car. Draw your own conclusions...


Hint: It wasn't me... :)
 
Cool, what car did you buy? What track? any videos you taken?
 
BuzzOrHowl
Was it me, or was it the 1000+ hours I spent in "The real driving simulator" before I even got in a real race car. Draw your own conclusions...


Hint: It wasn't me... :)
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Dude, you are dead man if you try to drive like in "real driving simulator" GT4. I've seen guys near crashing doing just slightly how you usually drive in GT4.

You would better learn to drive in PGR 4, it would give you much better image
 
Yeah I think GT4 help me think how to take corners as well on race track.. but heck, i never been on race track, I wonder how good or how fast I would crash my car. But someday I should try it out, just befrore my car dies , I fix it up a bit, and go race it on New Jersey Motorsport Park. When my car dies, fix it a bit, strip everything out, buy cheap lightwaight rims from PEPBOYS, sporty tries, sprty light waight seats, shocks, and go race it :D My dream !
 
^Let it roar one more time before it dies Nox.
 
sumbrownkid
^Well apparently GT4 helped him out.
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Here one guy dived into bay because he braked a bit too hard in turn just several weeks ago. Not to mention the other guy who did the same two months ago. GT4 fans probably. LOL.

GT4 style driving is suicidal in real life. When you turning at high speed - smoothness is a key. Every braking/acceleration/hard turning will eat your grip
 
^You can have smoothness while turning at high speed in GT4.

You have some grudge against GT4 don't you?

Not that I'm calling you out or anything. Gt4 has it's problems.
 
sumbrownkid
^You can have smoothness while turning at high speed in GT4.
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I agree with you, you can. Or you can mash brakes/throttle as hard as you can and turn the wheel all the way off inside the turn and nothing will change. So why bother?
 
You can do mashing or smoothness in both GT4 and in reality. It's just that someone must be dumb enough to do it in reality.
 
NoxNoctis Umbra
Cool, what car did you buy? What track? any videos you taken?
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otago
Dude, you are dead man if you try to drive like in "real driving simulator" GT4. I've seen guys near crashing doing just slightly how you usually drive in GT4.

You would better learn to drive in PGR 4, it would give you much better image
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I bought a 78 Datsun 280Z for $1800, spent about a grand fixing it up myself, and I was off to the races (literally!)

I went to Arroyo Seco Raceway near Demming, New Mexico. Saturday and Sunday, track was available about 10 hours each day. It was seriously the most fun I have ever had with my pants on. The owner was super cool, only charged me $80 the first day and $40 the second. There are some pics, but no video. I'll put them up shortly.

I've never played PGR, but I DID drive the way I do in GT4 and it worked for me. I didn't spin once (Some close calls tho!). Either way, I wouldn't be a dead man... there is plenty of run off area at that track... guys were spinning into the desert all day and just driving back onto the track. Sweep up the dust, and it's back to hot laps. Seriously, at least 10 guys went off that weekend (including both the guys I went with, LOL), an nobody even got any body damage.

By the end of the weekend the car was trashed! Tires shredded, new brake pads worn down to the metal, smoke billowing out of the bell housing... SO worth it!
 
^Not everything in GT4 is gonna equate to reality.
 
sumbrownkid
^Not everything in GT4 is gonna equate to reality.
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But this is very basic and fundamental thing. It's like you bought the fat book "Solving differential equations" and on the very first page found 2x2=7
 
Good point - I think GT5 should include these, especially tyre temperatures and tyre wear.

I'd also like to add that slipstreaming in GT5P is absolute ********!!! There is no way, even with a full aero Race car that you can pick up that much speed from following a car. Also when your car is off to one side and the front of your car is in line with the rear of the other, you actually get backwards wind which (almost negliable though!) pushes you back!
 
otago
But this is very basic and fundamental thing. It's like you bought the fat book "Solving differential equations" and on the very first page found 2x2=7
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Really, it was pretty similar... The Z is very responsive to throttle lift... lift in a turn, and the back will step out and the car will oversteer, give it some power and the back tucks right back in and it starts to understeer. That's how I drive in GT4.

Oh, yeah, I used n2s on all my cars in GT4. Maybe that's why real life wasn't much of a shock... LOL.

z12232678885_d96a4f846b.jpg

Skreeeech

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Heading out for my first run...

gtplanetz22233467532_65e8c1166e.jpg

Doing about 115 mph in this pic... About to hit the brakes HARD for the twistys... patented Datsun Aero lift on display LOL.


Since they I've also done a race seat, Header, 15X8 wheels, DOT Slicks (Kumho Ecsta 710s), Coil over suspension, and a lot of lightening. Hopefully, track time next month!

ArroyoSeco.jpg
 
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BuzzOrHowl
lift in a turn, and the back will step out and the car will oversteer, give it some power and the back tucks right back in and it starts to oversteer. That's how I drive in GT4.
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Wait, oversteer in GT4? What are you talking about?

It was impossible to make donuts even with 400 HP muscle car.
 
otago
Wait, oversteer in GT4? What are you talking about?

It was impossible to make donuts even with 400 HP muscle car.
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You're talking about POWER oversteer. I'm talking about THROTTLE LIFT oversteer. Take the Ford GT or Lotus Elise into a big sweeper at speed, and completely lift off the throttle. You'll get oversteer in GT4... Oh boy, will you ever... :scared:

EDIT: Oh, I see that I put "oversteer" twice in my last post. I meant to say that under power it UNDERsteers. It's fixed now. Sorry for any confusion.
 
otago you should really try equiping some N2 tires on your cars and put TCS and ASM to zero to get the realistic feel you say does not exist in gt4.
 
BuzzOrHowl
You're talking about POWER oversteer. I'm talking about THROTTLE LIFT oversteer. Take the Ford GT or Lotus Elise into a big sweeper at speed, and completely lift off the throttle. You'll get oversteer in GT4... Oh boy, will you ever... :scared:
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Don't remember anything like this really pronounced. Besides, I'm not sure why Ford GT and Elise. Old Porsches are affected by this kind of oversteer the most, not mid engine modern cars with multi link suspension.

BuzzOrHowl
Doing about 115 mph in this pic...
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You can do it on public roads as well, hitting 120 mph on straight is quite easy and safe. Tracks are all about turns
 
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