Just how much does GT5(P) actually simulate?

[Kryz11]

Great Pictures and I bet it's heck load of FUN! I cant wait till my car dies!.. well I take it back, I need something realible.. 130k miles on it still going strong


120mph on public roads is easy and safe.. Then you find out you killed someone.. its not a game in real roads man.. take it easy haha

But yeah I get your point, heck even on Grass and snow you can reach 120 MPH, but its safer on a RACE TRACK since everyone is going your speeds thus making it safer, as well no people crossing roads..

Throttle lift oversteer? That only happens when you turn at higher speeds ? Like in GT5Prologue and Mid engine cars? if so, even with multi link Mid engine cars like Elise and GT are super effected by this. Confirmed by article on GT Planet when Race car driver was comparing his experience of early build GT5Prologue with Real life, He mention it about Elise when turning and lifting off throttle it would fishtail as in real life.

 

[bkeljda]

wow it seems to me that otago is very negative like anything you say is wrong and what he /she says is right but i will agree with you all about the Ford GT's rearend coming out alot with no throttle because thats the car i use the most and its a ***** to recorrect the steering if you let it go to long with out applying some throttle to it

 

[BuzzOrHowl]

Don't remember anything like this really pronounced. Besides, I'm not sure why Ford GT and Elise. Old Porsches are affected by this kind of oversteer the most, not mid engine modern cars with multi link suspension.

You can do it on public roads as well, hitting 120 mph on straight is quite easy and safe. Tracks are all about turns

No, I can hit 135mph on public roads... LOL!!!

Ummm... well as you may recall, old Porsches aren't in GT4, and modern mid-engined cars DO have quite pronounced throttle lift oversteer, which was very realistically modeled in GT4 (and GT5P) physics.

Top speed on most tracks is lower (at least for my car) because the straights are limited in length.

My car dosen't have enough power to get up to it's top speed on the ASR straight.

Besides, as you quite correctly pointed out, it's all about turns. Look at the Arroyo Seco map I posted. You may see a turn or two.

BTW, we were doing the full track clockwise that day, so that included all the twisty stuff on the East end of the track. Right after the straight. Where that picture was taken. Like I said, by the end of each day, my brakes were trashed.

 

[otago]

120mph on public roads is easy and safe.. Then you find out you killed someone.. its not a game in real roads man.. take it easy haha

That's why I did a lot of 120 mph on public roads. If you overtaking somebody on two line road and can't see further than 300 yards you would better harry. Or you will find yourself smashed in oncoming traffic.

Though 200+ HP and 3+ liters engine are very helpful to boost the car fast

well as you may recall, old Porsches aren't in GT4

80-th RUF?

 

[BuzzOrHowl]

Otago, you crack me up!

 

[Kryz11]

That's why I did a lot of 120 mph on public roads. If you overtaking somebody on two line road and can't see further than 300 yards you would better harry.

Or you will find yourself smashed in oncoming traffic.



80-th RUF?

Very safe driver you are.

RUF is no Porsche, they buy and use unmarked Porsche bodies and chassis and build on from that.

 

[otago]

Very safe driver you are.

I am!

What's wrong? Last autumn I was in San Diego and should go to second line doing 90 mph cause everybody in the first line drove faster. In some countries people drive 200 kms on constant basis.

RUF is no Porsche

And I guess AMG is not Mersedes?

 

[BuzzOrHowl]

Nox, you should get to a track...

I've only spent about $6000 over the last couple years, including the original shell, and I have a totally viable track car. Anybody who says you need a BMW or Porsche is full of it. It's not the fastest, but it's still fun. LOTS of fun. and it's 31 years old, for chris' sakes!

There are plenty of cars slower. (One guy was in a stock econo civic sedan with all-season radials... but at least he was there!) Just get a helmet and a harness and go to a track day for newbies.


Then you'll really know what a good Sim GT is...


BTW Otago, RUF is no AMG. Unless you're a VIP with OCD. Then I'll be ROTFLMAO. Which I was when I read your last post. I love you, man!

 

[otago]

BTW Otago, RUF is no AMG.

No way! Are you sure that RUF is not AMG? Good to know. LOL

AMG is a home MBZ tuner, RUF is Porsche tuner. Not exactly home like AMG, you can take Brabus as example.

 

[BuzzOrHowl]

No way! Are you sure that RUF is not AMG? Good to know. LOL

AMG is a home MBZ tuner, RUF is Porsche tuner. Not exactly home like AMG, you can take Brabus as example.

Ummm... when you were in San Diego, and you went to that second line... it wasn't made out of white powder, was it?

Cos' it kinda seems like it might have been...

 

[otago]

Ummm... when you were in San Diego, and you went to that second line... it wasn't made out of white powder, was it?

Cos' it kinda seems like it might have been...

So in Santa Barbara area you are safe till 75 mph, nobody will give you a ticket until you push over 75.

In LA area - 85 mph is fine.

I've been in San Diego only couple of times and my guess is the further to south you go, the higher "ticket" limits are.

 

[BuzzOrHowl]

Yeah, I was just kidding... Sorry to give you a hard time, Otago.
What I'm saying is that Track driving is very different than driving on public roads.

No oncoming traffic, run off areas around turns, helmet, harness, paramedics at the ready...
I would NEVER do the stuff I do on the track on public roads!

The problem with kids these days... just cos' they know how to get a speeding ticket they think they're "fast".
Trust me, real hot laps in a track environment take completely different attitude and skillset...

 

[RedBaron]

GT4, Nordschleife and 1987 RUF CTR Yellowbird with N2 tyres and Logitech DFP steering wheel teached me much. For example correct use of gas pedal in every section of curve, correct braking, nailing apexes, where to point your eyes, not to wait with countersteer correction too much and not to let the car reach the state when you just swing over all the road from side to side before crash.

 

[Zer0]

Well, I spent two years playing GT3 & GT4 religiously (about 10 hours a week). Finally I just went and bought a sports car and went to a track day.

By my second hot lap, I was nailing apexes, controlling the balance of the car with the throttle, and putting in times competitive with way more experienced drivers.

Some of the older guys let it be known that I was the fastest beginner they'd ever seen.

Was it me, or was it the 1000+ hours I spent in "The real driving simulator" before I even got in a real race car. Draw your own conclusions...


Hint: It wasn't me...

Your history reminds me of this one:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1657786#post1657786

 

[daan]

AMG is a home MBZ tuner, RUF is Porsche tuner. Not exactly home like AMG, you can take Brabus as example.

AMG is owned by Mercedes.

Ruf is owned by Ruf, not Porsche, and ~80% of a Ruf is designed and built by Ruf. Ruf is not a Porsche tuner like TechArt etc., but is a manufacturer in its own right who just happens to use a Porsche bodyshell (which they have to purchase from Porsche).

 

[dbarrade]

Wow, it amazes me how some guys on this forum such as otago think it's cool to break the speed limits and drive dangerously putting other people's life at risk... grow up already before you kill someone.

Obviously you (otago) have never driven a modern mid engined car such as an Elise because the lift off oversteer will see you spinning real easy, similar to that new PSP ad...

Last, I don't believe you (otago) have ever played GT4 with a DFPro and all the aids off, because it taught me a few things about driving on the edge, and probably saved me crashing the car I was about to buy after hitting a wet patch of road during my first test drive... I don't think my heart has ever beaten faster. (I bought the car anyway because it felt great and confirmed what playing Gran Turismo has taught me; mid engined cars suit my driving style.)

Back on topic, here is a list of parameters you could alter using the MKS program for GT3, most of these affected the performance of your car, so was obviously used in part of the calculation of the physics (some may have been calculated prior to real time, but they were still part of what was simulated):

[GT3CarData]
Region=US
BaseFile= 4
BaseName= GT40 Race Car
0=-2100615252 \Car Base Part 1
4=-817875727 /Car Base Part 2
8=-1131 \Color Part 1
12=-1 /Color Part 2
16=-2 \4 ?? Part 1
20=-1 /4 ?? Part 2
24=-907344916 \Brakes Part 1
28=265915218 /Brakes Part 2
32=-12514 \Brake Controllor Part 1
36=-1 /Brake Controllor Part 2
40=-907344916 \Chassis Part 1
44=341352274 /Chassis Part 2
48=1686067058 \Engine Part 1
52=-1596695059 /Engine Part 2
56=-1643198613 \Drivetrain & VCD Part 1
60=1721000207 /Drivetrain & VCD Part 1
64=-329779156 \Transmission Part 1
68=340152146 /Transmission Part 2
72=-907344916 \Suspension Part 1
76=97027410 /Suspension Part 2
80=-907344916 \LSD Part 1
84=172984658 /LSD Part 1
88=-907344924 \Front Tyres Part 1
92=148211538 /Front Tyres Part 2
96=-907344924 \Rear Tyres Part 1
100=46761810 /Raer Tyres Part 2
104=-2619186 \17 ?? Part 1
108=-1 /17 ?? Part 2
112=-1 \Weight Reduction Part 1
116=-1 /Weight Reduction Part 2
120=-907344916 \Body & DF Part 1
124=172594514 /Body & DF Part 2
128=-948979477 \Polish Part 1
132=691232804 /Polish Part 2
136=152590897 \Balance Part 1
140=1530813115 /Balance Part 2
144=-145245973 \Displacement part 1
148=691232822 /Displacement part 2
152=152545902 \Computer Part 1
156=457071291 /Computer Part
160=-933989651 \N\A Tune Part 1
164=404172409 /N\A Tune Part 2
168=-1214793495 \Turbo Part 1
172=691232802 /Turbo Part 2
176=-1 \Flywheel Part 1
180=-1 /Flywheel Part 2
184=-907344916 \Clutch Part 1
188=307795794 /Clutch Part 2
192=-1 \Shaft Part 1
196=-1 /Shaft Part 2
200=-907344916 \Muffler Part 1
204=147752274 /Muffler Part 2
208=598169207 \Intercooler Part 1
212=1801572653 /Intercooler Part 2
216=-12514 \??ASM?? Part 1
220=-1 /??ASM?? Part 2
224=-12514 \??TCS?? Part 1
228=-1 /??TCS?? Part 2
232=-1 \Wheels Part 1
236=-1 /Wheels Part 2
240=-5352 >R Gear
244=-5891 >1 Gear
248=-3817 >2 Gear
252=-2719 >3 Gear
256=-2041 >4 Gear
260=-1614 >5 Gear
264=-1201 >6 Gear
268=-1 >7 Gear
272=-2001 >Final Drive
276=-43 >Auto Gear
280=-1 >VCD
284=-2 \Front Brakes Part 1
288=-2 /Front Brakes Part 2
292=-186 >Front DF
296=-209 >Rear DF
300=-7 >Turbo 1
304=-41 >Turbo 2
308=-106 >Turbo 3
312=-1 >Turbo 4
316=-1 >Turbo 5
320=-1 >Turbo 6
324=-21 >Front Camber
328=-11 >Rear Camber
332=-36 >Front Ride Height
336=-36 >Rear Ride Height
340=-129 >Front Toe
344=-129 >Rear Toe
348=-109 >Front Springs
352=-126 >Rear Springs
356=-76 >??Front Grip??
360=-91 >??Rear Grip??
364=-8 >Front Bound
368=-8 >Front Bound
372=-8 >Front Rebound
376=-8 >Front Rebound
380=-8 >Rear Bound
384=-8 >Rear Bound
388=-8 >Rear Rebound
392=-8 >Rear Rebound
396=-8 >Front Stabilizer
400=-8 >Rear Stabilizer
404=-1 >Front LSD Init
408=-11 >Rear LSD Init
412=-1 >Front LSD Accel
416=-41 >Rear LSD Accel
420=-1 >Front LSD Decel
424=-21 >Rear LSD Decel
428=-2001 >Final Drive
432=-10 >TCS
436=-1 >84
440=-1 >85 > horse power modifier
444=-7 >ASM
448=-2 >??Driver A/MT??
452=-2 >??Driver ASM??
456=-2 >??Driver TCS??
460=-1 >90
464=-71345546 >Fittment 1
468=-610409861 >Fittment 2
472=-2640162 >Fittment 3
476=-1 >Travel Meter
480=-1211699450 >Oil 1
484=930364638 >Oil 2
488=-1034224036 >97 shine of car
492=-1 >98
496=-1 >99
500=-1 >100
504=-1 >101
508=-2 >102

 

[Simple SIM]

I hope GT 5 has Telemetry so you can see for yourself everything the physics engine is calculating. It would also be an invaluable tool for tuning.

 

[Radracing]

AMG is owned by Mercedes.

Ruf is owned by Ruf, not Porsche, and ~80% of a Ruf is designed and built by Ruf. Ruf is not a Porsche tuner like TechArt etc., but is a manufacturer in its own right who just happens to use a Porsche bodyshell (which they have to purchase from Porsche).

Does RUF cast and build thier own engines too or do they get the major parts like engine blocks, cranks, heads and what not from Porsche too?

 

[FoolKiller]

You can do it on public roads as well, hitting 120 mph on straight is quite easy and safe. Tracks are all about turns

That's why I did a lot of 120 mph on public roads. If you overtaking somebody on two line road and can't see further than 300 yards you would better harry. Or you will find yourself smashed in oncoming traffic.

Though 200+ HP and 3+ liters engine are very helpful to boost the car fast

I am!

What's wrong? Last autumn I was in San Diego and should go to second line doing 90 mph cause everybody in the first line drove faster. In some countries people drive 200 kms on constant basis.

So in Santa Barbara area you are safe till 75 mph, nobody will give you a ticket until you push over 75.

In LA area - 85 mph is fine.

I've been in San Diego only couple of times and my guess is the further to south you go, the higher "ticket" limits are.

Just to give you a heads up, you are being a bit risky with this:

You will not use these forums to violate any laws nor to discuss illegal activities.

As we have been warned about it in the "What's the Fastest You've Gone" thread, you may want to be careful.

 

[Sureboss]

I have always wondered this as well... we here a lot of talk about physics engines and calculations and what not, but it would be interesting to see more under the hood if you will.

You're not going to be told that kind of thing by many (if any) developers/publishers, let alone a big one like this.

I've been lucky/unlucky enough to work with all the many variables of some physics engines. It's very fascinating and I could probably give some examples of what it'd be like (based on my own experiences), if you were to say list the variables of various inputs, etc. I might post something back in here towards the end of the week, if I have time. Though within the genres I work within, the engines are nothing like developed as Racing engines, which are pretty much completely dynamic, as opposed to being "forced" (it's late and I can't think of the term for this).

I did have a chance to go to a racing game engine workshop/conference/etc, but got put off by the £400 price tag...maybe next year or year after next.

----

@ dbarrade - That's quite interesting, got any more background/knowledge/links on that. Google keeps directing me to finance operators...

 

[serversurfer]

Not long ago, I was watching the Top Gear where Jeremy Clarkson tried to match his best time around Laguna Seca in an NSX on GT with an actual NSX at the actual Laguna Seca. He failed to do so because he's a coward. (Yeah, I said it. )

Anyway, Jeremy is a pretty big guy and it got me to wondering… Does GT take the weight of the driver in to account?

By the way here is the video of something similar i was talking..
I still need to find the other one, but its almost the same thing.. and shows off the tire contact, power, etc etc..

Nice!

One of the French mags sent an actual race car driver to TGS to interview Kaz, and apparently the two are actually good friends. Anyway, while touring the studio, the driver saw some sort of g-force meter being displayed, and excitedly asked if it was going to be in the game. Kaz's response was something like, "Oh, I dunno… I guess it could be. Would you like that?" When the driver said he definitely would, Kaz said, "Okay, then I'll leave it in."

Hopefully, we'll get not only that, but other telemetry as well. ^^

 

[Sureboss]

Well it's not going to be variable (unless you are asked to put your physical information in to GT5, in which case I'm lying!), it'll either be a standard weight added on to the weight of the car, or just non-existent.

 

[DragoonRaven]

I have been wondering about that "weight of driver" issue for a long time, as well (just forgot to mention it). It's probably a standard weight, in the spirit of fairness. If it was a user selectable variable, wouldn't you think everyone would set it to be as light as possible?

 

[Lucas]

I hope GT 5 has Telemetry so you can see for yourself everything the physics engine is calculating. It would also be an invaluable tool for tuning.

Not many can tune cars in GT4 to "perfection" (in this forum). I would expect even less people to use Telemetry as a invaluable tool for tuning. Most would likely give up. I know I would.

 

[serversurfer]

Yeah, I'm sure a driver would be standardized. I just didn't know if they took one in to account already, and if so, they accounted for their placement in the car. Like, do left-drivers sit differently than right-drivers, or does the whole car just weigh an extra 75 kg, or what?

Edit: Ooh! I want a balancing plate! 💡

 

[dbarrade]

@ Sureboss use the search function here on GT Planet, it has lots of info on "hybrid" cars, which are cars modified in ways that are not possible from within Gran Turismo itself.

I personally used the MKS Program to try and match the performance of the Gran Turismo simulated car to that of my real car.

The biggest trade-off I found was either getting initial or on the edge straight line acceleration and braking traction correct, or getting the point where the tyre is no longer able to provide enough friction to overcome the centripetal force correct.

The area I found to be most incorrect in the standard Gran Turismo configuration was the time in which a gear could be changed, the times were way too fast compared to my real gear change times and the rev's I lost whilst selecting a gear and re-engaging the clutch.

I think I compensated for that through a really heavy flywheel.

 

[Biggamehit]

I have been a racer for 9 years ( organized since 2006-07ish) now.... when i switched to the wheel in GT5P i was in shock at how my inputs that I would give my skyline/240 worked in the game..

 

[otago]

Just to give you a heads up, you are being a bit risky with this

What do you call illegal? Go to 405 in LA, everybody there driving 85. If you see somebody doing 65 at left line it will be 75 years old or chinese.

This is unwritten rule, police doesn't want highways jammed (especially 405, which is also known as "4 or 5 miles per hour") and issues tickets only for some certain speed, which is not speed limit.

 

[RedBaron]

Not long ago, I was watching the Top Gear where Jeremy Clarkson tried to match his best time around Laguna Seca in an NSX on GT with an actual NSX at the actual Laguna Seca. He failed to do so because he's a coward. (Yeah, I said it. )

No, this wasn't an issue, unfortunately GT4 had all cars equiped with S-Grade tyres with too much grip and worse, without oversteer. When you equipped N1 tyres which corespond with the real ones, then the times were much closer.

 

[Custer85]

I have been a racer for 9 years ( organized since 2006-07ish) now.... when i switched to the wheel in GT5P i was in shock at how my inputs that I would give my skyline/240 worked in the game..

Shocked how accurate it was, or in shock due to some unrealistic feel to it?