Just how much does GT5(P) actually simulate?

[Stonemonkey]

I think most people look towards those who do the thing in real life and also plays a fair amount of games/sims to make this call. Insidesimracing is an example of a respected, experienced source for info on how well the games physics engines work.

Unlike how graphics look (which is highly subjective) with physics they are trying to replicate a real, measureable, comparable goal, so you can actually say how good a physics engine is by carefully comparing it to reality.

Well, I'd say in the GT series one of the things they try to do is make it look as real as possible, comparison with a photo or video image is measurable, but with the power available there are still limitations to what can be achieved so concessions have to be made, different developers will make different concessions depending on what they personally believe to be more important in what they're trying to achieve. Exactly the same goes for physics, because of the limited power available concessions will have to be made and some things may just be approximations or fudged and it's up to the developer to decide what's more important.

 

[dbarrade]

Firstly, every Elise is a very different car, I test drove about 20 before I found one I really liked, and depending upon how they've been looked after and setup, they can vary wildly.

My Elise is an old one and feels a lot more raw than the latest I've driven which is an S2 Exige S.

I find GT 5 Prologue in professional with all aids off, a little more HP and a little less weight to be pretty close to the performance of my S1 Elise, the old GT's had too much body roll compared to even the stock Elise, but I felt that was exagerated in game to give better feedback without the G's being applied to the driver.

I think as I said in some other thread, that the tyre traction is either right from an acceleration decelleration point of view on one tyre, or from a lateral grip point of view on another tyre, but this cannot be adjusted to get a correct match in GT5 Prologue with the tuning available.

The biggest area where the simulation is wrong is the time between gear changes, there is no way I can get my car into the next gear that quick, and have compared side by side video footage of 0-100 out of curiosity.

I've only driven two on the track at my limits, my own, and an old Exige, which felt similar to how mine feels now with the suspension and tyre upgrade. Also, I've only driven my own in a ghymkana situation, this is where you really notice the Elise's understeer, and in the wet, you can go from understeer to oversteer a lot quicker than any other situation, but, similar to a handbrake turn, when you get it right, it is the best feeling ever!

I've not had too much trouble with the A048's, although they pretty much get used for weekend mountain drives the majority of the time. To be honest they perform better in the wet than I expected and way better than the old Road Yoko's I used to drive on. (Sorry the specific part number escapes me).

Overall GT can exhibit some of the twitchiness and interesting MR behaviour you get on the edge better than any PC Sim I've tried.

For example when braking hard, you can lock up and get the rear trying to overtake the front wheels and this to me feels very realistic now.

Also, if you lift off mid corner whilst on the edge, the rear will again break free and try to overtake the front wheels, which is what I was describing earlier.

Not many Sim's or other games get this right, so I believe GT is currently modelling my car better than anything else I've tried.

I find a lot of PC sim's over exagerate all the grip characteristics and model this behaviour but much more soon than GT does, and I find GT to match better with my experience of driving the Elise.

The other thing that GT gets right is the turn in (or lack of) on the edge, which when you back off a little the nose comes in at the start of a corner, to me this is what they really nailed, and what gives me the most authentic car feel, you can feel the weight transfer back to those front steering wheels, increasing traction and then turning the car.

Here's a pic of my home made cockpit, I turned the pedals upside down, and swapped clutch and accelerator to get a better feel, all the dimensions are pretty much identical to that in my elise, except the wheel is smaller and the travel of the gear lever is smaller. I use an office chair with the base removed, which as you are probably well aware has a little more padding than the Elise seat .

Also a pic of my Elise compared to the one I setup in GT4... I used the GT4 different wheel options to help choose new wheels when I swapped to A048's and chose the rimspeed 12's... Geary at Elise Parts got them powder coated black... to be honest the only reason I did that was to make it look more like the ones in GT...

I can't wait for GT5 Photo mode!

 

[The Jenius]

Firstly, every Elise is a very different car, I test drove about 20 before I found one I really liked, and depending upon how they've been looked after and setup, they can vary wildly.

My Elise is an old one and feels a lot more raw than the latest I've driven which is an S2 Exige S.

I find GT 5 Prologue in professional with all aids off, a little more HP and a little less weight to be pretty close to the performance of my S1 Elise, the old GT's had too much body roll compared to even the stock Elise, but I felt that was exagerated in game to give better feedback without the G's being applied to the driver.

I think as I said in some other thread, that the tyre traction is either right from an acceleration decelleration point of view on one tyre, or from a lateral grip point of view on another tyre, but this cannot be adjusted to get a correct match in GT5 Prologue with the tuning available.

The biggest area where the simulation is wrong is the time between gear changes, there is no way I can get my car into the next gear that quick, and have compared side by side video footage of 0-100 out of curiosity.

I've only driven two on the track at my limits, my own, and an old Exige, which felt similar to how mine feels now with the suspension and tyre upgrade. Also, I've only driven my own in a ghymkana situation, this is where you really notice the Elise's understeer, and in the wet, you can go from understeer to oversteer a lot quicker than any other situation, but, similar to a handbrake turn, when you get it right, it is the best feeling ever!

I've not had too much trouble with the A048's, although they pretty much get used for weekend mountain drives the majority of the time. To be honest they perform better in the wet than I expected and way better than the old Road Yoko's I used to drive on. (Sorry the specific part number escapes me).

Overall GT can exhibit some of the twitchiness and interesting MR behaviour you get on the edge better than any PC Sim I've tried.

For example when braking hard, you can lock up and get the rear trying to overtake the front wheels and this to me feels very realistic now.

Also, if you lift off mid corner whilst on the edge, the rear will again break free and try to overtake the front wheels, which is what I was describing earlier.

Not many Sim's or other games get this right, so I believe GT is currently modelling my car better than anything else I've tried.

I find a lot of PC sim's over exagerate all the grip characteristics and model this behaviour but much more soon than GT does, and I find GT to match better with my experience of driving the Elise.

The other thing that GT gets right is the turn in (or lack of) on the edge, which when you back off a little the nose comes in at the start of a corner, to me this is what they really nailed, and what gives me the most authentic car feel, you can feel the weight transfer back to those front steering wheels, increasing traction and then turning the car.

Here's a pic of my home made cockpit, I turned the pedals upside down, and swapped clutch and accelerator to get a better feel, all the dimensions are pretty much identical to that in my elise, except the wheel is smaller and the travel of the gear lever is smaller. I use an office chair with the base removed, which as you are probably well aware has a little more padding than the Elise seat .

Also a pic of my Elise compared to the one I setup in GT4... I used the GT4 different wheel options to help choose new wheels when I swapped to A048's and chose the rimspeed 12's... Geary at Elise Parts got them powder coated black... to be honest the only reason I did that was to make it look more like the ones in GT...

I can't wait for GT5 Photo mode!

Thats awesome, you don't even want to see my cockpit, its like a Frankenstein. I'll post some Elise pictures up here as well, I painted the door screws inside, painted the shifter diagram, instead of just the silver. I pained the gas cap and bolts and I painted the wheels black, they are all very nice touches.

So what do you rest your foot on, the floor? how did you mount it to that desk? Last thing, why did you do that so you can effecively rest your foot and use your toes to gas and brake?

 

[dbarrade]

I made the "desk" which is basically 3 platforms, one to hold the wheel at the same angle as the Elise, you can see I have it tilted off the horizontal.

The second holds the pedals, these are mounted upside down, so the motion is the same as a real car, everytime I see a cockpit with the pedals going into the floor it makes me cringe, I can't drive with the action of my ankles like that. The height of the centre part of the pedal is basically the same height as the centre part of the real pedals are from the floor inside the Elise, admittedly in the real Elise I drive with shoes on, and in the cockpit I drive with socks on, but the height is still comfortable. So yes, I rest my feet on the floor. Since doing the license tests in GT4 trying to get golds, I found I couldn't achieve some of them without left foot braking, so now I'm comfortable left foot braking in a real car. The width of the Logitech G25 Pedals is pretty close to that of the Elise, so I'm hoping GT5 is going to have a license where you learn to heel and toe correctly.

The last platform holds the Gearshifter, as you can see the buttons are awkward to reach when the shifter is in the right spot, I put it so that the head of the shifter is the same place as the head of the shifter in the Elise.

The rest of the "desk" is just to keep those platforms in the right spots, I stop it from pushing away from me with an old strap from a bag, which runs from the two back sides of the "desk" to underneath the office chair I sit on.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

To be honest what you say about the Elise is BS, no offense, I think the perception of MR in general being difficult is a little overrated. I actually own an Elise and don't just preach based on youtube videos and a "stock MR2 from 96" like others.

Everyone who owns one will tell you the Elise suffers from understeer as much as oversteer. This is because Lotus intentionally puts 4 shims , which are adjustable, in the suspension to reduce camber, once you take these out it completely changes.

Yes there are still cases of oversteer as with any car but you are generalizing and sound like the exactly like the guy you explain in your post who hasn't driven a modern MR, namely the Elise. I just want to make sure people aren't pretending to be doing things they aren't.

This is what I loved about GT4.

With suspension adjustments you should be able to get almost any car to handle neutral, to neutral loose or neutral push, assuming your not breaking traction when accelerating while in or coming out of the corner and there is not some track anomaly that upsets the balance of the car.

Or locking the brakes front and/or rear getting in the corner.

 

[chepe371]

I've never driven an Elise, except in GT5P, and it's a car that surprised me, i never really glanced at it, until i had spare Cr. and got a black one, right away itook it to Suzuka, and beat all my best laps(i got like a 1:39:00 in the Elise in pro with no aids).

But one thing i noticed was for relatively low power with no TCS and over-generous gassing i was getting alot of understeer, but i suspect its because of the short wheelbase of the car. Might also be as dbarrade pointed out, the gear ratios being too short which exaggerates acceleration.

 

[IsmokeGT]

I've never driven an Elise, except in GT5P, and it's a car that surprised me, i never really glanced at it, until i had spare Cr. and got a black one, right away itook it to Suzuka, and beat all my best laps(i got like a 1:39:00 in the Elise in pro with no aids)

You are the fastest guy in the WORLD!!

Wait, you meant 2minutes and 39seconds, right? A stock Elise is only 10 seconds a lap slower around Suzuka than the F1 car?