Just Raced Under The New Algorithms and Rules

[BSDShoes]

I'm fast, and clean so speed is important. Being reckless will see you punished. I take it you would catch a car and instantly want to overtake because you're faster? That's not racing I'm afraid.

lol I'm guilty of doing that in the past

 

[mthomas_95]

Correct overtaking is never safe, but it was in GTS under the old system. To much contact, which incidentally doesn't make good viewing for an Esport.

You can't claim to have the best GTS players in the world then watch them bang and bump each other. It should be super clean and super smooth. Mistakes happen and risks are taken, but they should be a considered move and not just "shut your eyes, chuck it up the inside and hope it ends well".

F1 very very rarely touch and if they do normally ends or severely hampers their race. In GTS contact had turned into the meta.

Having people spread themselves out more than a second apart to avoid any potential tap is much worse I'd argue for Esport viewing. The casual viewer will want to see close, wheel to wheel action and if it results in a little bump so be it, see it all the time in GT racing especially on Lap 1. Didn't see Vettel and Ricciardo get slapped with a 2 second penalty for wheel banging at China last year and if they had the backlash would've been immense.

All they need to do is just give a warning (black and white flag) for the first tap or two (and by tap we're talking a few mph difference so it's not ramming). If you tap someone 3 or more times in one race that is too far and a little penalty is sufficient.

 

[Mr616]

lol I'm guilty of doing that in the past

Dude, that was bad. Slapped wrist, and you better "git gud scrub" lol.

 

[JulesDennis]

I disagree with that post though... I am SR S and started last night in DR B and got promoted finally to A. Racing was the same, except for one idiot not "driving like it's real" as @Mr616 said... he drove straight to the inside of T1 on lap 1 on BB, hoping to push through using other cars as a wall

If nothing changed in terms of racing what was different and helped you finally break into DR A ranks?

 

[Robben]

So, penalty-wise, trading paint in DR/A seemed to be the same as in DR/B?

In the sense that I got one penalty all evening and that was in B. The rest of the night was very clean and I was not punished for others bumping me (as was the case previously)

 

[Mr616]

Having people spread themselves out more than a second apart to avoid any potential tap is much worse I'd argue for Esport viewing. The casual viewer will want to see close, wheel to wheel action and if it results in a little bump so be it, see it all the time in GT racing especially on Lap 1. Didn't see Vettel and Ricciardo get slapped with a 2 second penalty for wheel banging at China last year and if they had the backlash would've been immense.

All they need to do is just give a warning (black and white flag) for the first tap or two (and by tap we're talking a few mph difference so it's not ramming). If you tap someone 3 or more times in one race that is too far and a little penalty is sufficient.

If anybody needs a 1 second of space to avoid a tap then that's their problem I'm afraid.

I know i'm repeating myself, but I do think contact penalties are a little over harsh in it's current state, but a lot of players need the wake up call, and it's working from my last 2 nights racing. Fewer idiots, fewer yellow flags and zero divebombs or ridiculous overtake attempts.

 

[RaceFace85]

I think you expect to much from an average GTSport driver..

No, I think PD expects to much from an average GTSport driver.

 

[Robben]

If nothing changed in terms of racing what was different and helped you finally break into DR A ranks?

Woah, woah, woah

I've been working at getting into A for the past 2* weeks... I did not say it was due to the new penalty system.

*edit... actually 3 weeks of hard work and selective racing since I got to 25000 I have been pushing for A.

 

[JacksHerer]

Has anyone noticed if 'what part of your car touches another car' makes a difference to penalties?

In the race where I had lots of contact with no penalties, it was all side by side contact. The videos I've seen with penalties dished out have been contact to rear corners.

 

[RaceFace85]

This is an example for awesome racing before the last update. NINE leader changes in the last two laps.



This is impossible now.

 

[mthomas_95]

If anybody needs a 1 second of space to avoid a tap then that's their problem I'm afraid.

I know i'm repeating myself, but I do think contact penalties are a little over harsh in it's current state, but a lot of players need the wake up call, and it's working from my last 2 nights racing. Fewer idiots, fewer yellow flags and zero divebombs or ridiculous overtake attempts.

I can see it just starting to have an effect, some of the rougher S/S guys are either stopping playing or have dropped to at least the lower S SR and not being matched with me anymore. Qualify up front and find someone you can trust like I did last night at Brands and you can still get pretty damn close and fun racing, but if you're starting 4th down then God help you on races I've seen and been in so far

 

[Outspacer]

I think there'll be a transitional period as the gist of the new penalties will take some getting used to. Luckily, I went into it with my eyes open but there'll be people hopping on and learning the hard way and likely dragging others into their learning process. I don't think it will take long for it to settle down though as there's a lot more at stake now that DR is linked. Given a bit of time, I think it will sort drivers into their respective ranks and I've no doubt some people won't like where it puts them but for the honest drivers out there, I think it's a blessing. If you lose a DR rank that you've had a while, you know you're good enough to get back there so it's no real loss other than a bit of time. We're there to race, not to try and level up. It's daft swapping them around as that defeats the purpose.

True, but it's the DR that helps to get us into good close races.

So do I but I still get nervous in a close race. I'd have to a robot not to. Just one small mistake...

Mostly any nerves I have while racing are around getting hit in T1, after that, intense focus takes over... and that's what's relaxing

The way I see it, if there's a chance of contact, these penalties will seriously make you question whether you want to take that chance so discretion should be the better part of valour. If it changes how people race, perhaps they previously enjoyed the valour too much, so again, the new system works as they've got a fresh memory of a mistake they've got to rectify in the next few races.



That tells me the new system is made for you too. Give it a try! If it goes pear shaped, you'll be back to where you were in no time at all while the have a go hero will probably take a bit longer as they've got more to learn.

If you really don't fancy it, I reckon there'll be a relaxation of what PD thinks is contact soon as they went a bit too far with it. I'm sure they want competitive racing, not a procession.

Look on the bright side. It might stop people drinking and driving too. They could end up as an E/E if they play after a skinful.

Well of course, in one sense, it would suit me - clean racing is better! But if it's the case that one little tap can ruin a race, then it wouldn't be worth it IMO. Not because my rating might suffer, but because in that instant it's become a frustrating waste of time.

I'm an A/S driver and I enjoy close door to door racing as long as we are both respectful of each other. I don't want to be afraid of side by side racing or overtaking for fear of receiving a penalty. Racing scared is not fun. I really had no qualms with the system the way it was. Of course you're going to get the punters from time to time, but overall it wasn't that bad.

I believe PD succumbed to the masses crying foul whenever they were bumped by someone (i.e. an S driver trying to make up positions after an incident). So now the higher ranked players receive harsher penalties than lower ranked. I know there are guys that game the system and I like that you can't bleed the penalty off while still maintaining your pace somewhat. I just feel that there will be more changes coming, like ghosting cars scrubbing off penalties.

But if everyone is afraid to make contact with another car I fear the racing is going to become rather bland. What fun is there if the only way to make up positions is if someone makes a mistake or slows to lose a penalty. And if you think that's my point of view because I'm a dirty driver you're wrong. I always try to race clean and leave room when attempting a pass. With that said, I think I will be enjoying some GT mode until things get sorted out. Hopefully by next weeks maintenance.

Quite agree, although I'm fine with them docking a bit of SR for every little tap because it was ridiculous what people could get away with before.

But real life drivers are concerned about contact because it could very well kill them.

The racing that you see on TV has that lethal tension to it and mimicking that level of fear is practically impossible for a video game where all of the consequences are imaginary.

I don't think it should try to mimic that fear. You're taking the argument to extremes, when the main complaint here is around getting 2 sec penalties for literally just touching another car in cases which are not even affecting the car's course in the slightest. I think most of the complainers would agree that anything that actually affects a car's trajectory is a more serious case. The point is simply that a 2 sec penalty is way too harsh for touching, when just a -SR would be more appropriate.

Once everybody learns how to not touch, the racing will improve. The people who are constantly on penalties will not be getting matched with those who incur very little penalties. Then blame won't matter as much, because you shouldn't be crashing or bumping anyway. Especially at SR:S and DR:A and above.

If people learn not to touch, great. If people are forced to not touch, that's not so great - my worry is that then the SR S rating becomes even more artificial. And since that's the primary factor in matchmaking, that could mess things up. Players should be given enough rope to hang themselves by

 

[JacksHerer]

Nice race, with a bit more effort to avoid contact, I don't see why that wouldn't still be possible with equally matched guys in different cars.

 

[choSeeCZ]

This is an example for awesome racing before the last update. NINE leader changes in the last two laps.



This is impossible now.

yeah, this is racing....now you can´t overtake, because you risk penalty and ruin race

 

[kilesa4568]

I dont have a solution for them and I am not a software developer either.I never said that they should code a "who is at fault" penalty system.All I said is that since its impossible to do that (no other sim does that either),the penalty system should be done in the best way possible.
Unfortunatly the race penalty system PD has is perhaps the worse I've seen in any similar title I've tried.

They were rhetorical questions as I don't think there's a perfect system without human deliberation. I think the esport events will have to have a race steward (or several) as they can't rely on the game's penalty system. Either pre or post update. It will fall flat on its face if they do.

I'm under no illusion that what we've got now is the best solution but something had to be done to limit contact. It was becoming a war zone for the vast majority of players and if the penalties were as tough lower down, I can see the player base dropping a lot more down there than if a few of the top drivers leave.

GTS is a "FIA aproved title".Yet I cannot recall any FIA championship that will punish PRO drivers but not AM drivers for the same reason,racing in the same track.

You might be blurring the line there. Real motor sport has a lot more at stake than a few ranking points in a game.

I've lost count of the amount of times I've said this but once they relax the top rank's collision measurement, they should be able to find a happy medium for everyone. I think they need to keep the tiered penalties based on ability though as contact happens a lot more often further down.

 

[JacksHerer]

As long as the penalty is applied to both cars, I just hope that I am racing against other people using radar and rear view mirror so we can both be equally avoiding contact and leaving space.
If over taking is reliant on using all the slipstream up to and in to the braking zone, then issues may arise. People will need to back off into braking zones or take a different line so that they are not going to make contact.

 

[RaceFace85]

Nice race, with a bit more effort to avoid contact, I don't see why that wouldn't still be possible with equally matched guys in different cars.

Because the smallest collision will now destroy the race for both players. Now the best thing is to drive your position to the finish without risking a penalty.

 

[Skiddy]

No, I think PD expects to much from an average GTSport driver.

No, all PD expected is for the drivers to behave and respect each other on the track. We all saw how that worked out.
So PD decided to throw the book at them.

 

[Outspacer]

This is an example for awesome racing before the last update. NINE leader changes in the last two laps.

This is impossible now.

Nice race, with a bit more effort to avoid contact, I don't see why that wouldn't still be possible with equally matched guys in different cars.

Well that was pretty much without contact in the last two laps, but with the risk of contact. Had they got a 2 sec penalty at any point, multiple places would've lost serving it. And for what? These guys are racing clean, they don't need to be 'taught'.

 

[JulesDennis]

Woah, woah, woah

I've been working at getting into A for the past 2* weeks... I did not say it was due to the new penalty system.

*edit... actually 3 weeks of hard work and selective racing since I got to 25000 I have been pushing for A.

View attachment 718656

So why bring it up?Just to say that your pesonal experience in terms of the "new" penalty system is the same in DR A with DR B,when patch notes point that additional penalties are given depending on rank?
It is clear that the higher DR/SR rating you are,its easier to get a penalty.The system is more strick for "high" rated player than lower rated players.And that alone is wrong.
Example: one guy (rated DR C) lose breaks -mistake- and gets a 5 sec penalty for cutting the track.Same does a DR S driver.Neither of them slow down in the next straight.DR C rated driver gets no additional penalty yet DR S driver gets another -additional- 5 sec penalty.Is this a penalty system that works as it should?

They were rhetorical questions as I don't think there's a perfect system without human deliberation. I think the esport events will have to have a race steward (or several) as they can't rely on the game's penalty system. Either pre or post update. It will fall flat on its face if they do.

100% agree.I imagize you are talking about a FINAL race of the 25 world's best ranked people because the "Sport mode" FIA races are actually the e-sport part of the game.And those races are never going to have a human steward.But I think that we are not going to see a human steward since the game does not support such a feature -unless they add it at some point-.

I'm under no illusion that what we've got now is the best solution but something had to be done to limit contact. It was becoming a war zone for the vast majority of players and if the penalties were as tough lower down, I can see the player base dropping a lot more down there than if a few of the top drivers leave.

I again agree that something had to be done.But I also think that the "new" system is not the solution.

You might be blurring the line there. Real motor sport has a lot more at stake than a few ranking points in a game.

I've lost count of the amount of times I've said this but once they relax the top rank's collision measurement, they should be able to find a happy medium for everyone. I think they need to keep the tiered penalties based on ability though as contact happens a lot more often further down.

The penalty system should be the same no matter your rank or racecraft or "level".
Its supposed to be an e-sport title.It must have the same rules for everyone.I should not be able to get away with a "tap in the back" just because I am worse than others.[/QUOTE]

 

[FUNanywhere]

I m A S
Did around 7-8 races at Monza.

Got a plethora of pens. 90% were my mistakes. Some of them were harsh but i am fine with it.

You simply cannot even feather touch a car now. Instant 3 secs pen for that. Like it.

Quite evident that people are more aware now.

Though some idiots just stop in between to serve pens. Idiots.

 

[JacksHerer]

If the cars ahead don't have confidence to race and pass each other without contact, then I am sure they will be caught up by some guys that do have that confidence.
This new system should enforce people to leave room at all cost and avoid contact at all cost.

 

[Outspacer]

No, all PD expected is for the drivers to behave and respect each other on the track. We all saw how that worked out.
So PD decided to throw the book at them.

No, what happened was that PD's SR system failed to measure drivers accurately enough at all, so it didn't filter out those without respect from those with respect. If people want to play rubbin' is racin' that's fine by me BUT ONLY IF they're in some lower SR rank.

 

[Skiddy]

No, what happened was that PD's SR system failed to measure drivers accurately enough at all, so it didn't filter out those without respect from those with respect. If people want to play rubbin' is racin' that's fine by me BUT ONLY IF they're in some lower SR rank.

This is what I think happened.. PD is the mom..Kids are the drivers.

 

[Outspacer]

This is what I think happened.. PD is the mom..Kids are the drivers.

I blame the parents.

 

[Robben]

So why bring it up?Just to say that your pesonal experience in terms of the "new" penalty system is the same in DR A with DR B,when patch notes point that additional penalties are given depending on rank?
It is clear that the higher DR/SR rating you are,its easier to get a penalty.The system is more strick for "high" rated player than lower rated players.And that alone is wrong.

I was just saying what rank I was to show I had experience in both B and A rank and always at SR/S... I was definitely not saying I went up because of the new system.

No, it only says that those ignoring time penalties will have additional time penalties and those additional time penalties due to not observing initial penalties will depend on DR

- If a driver continues to drive without complying with a certain amount of Time Penalty, additional time penalties will be added. (The additional penalty depends on the DR);

 

[kilesa4568]

And those races are never going to have a human steward.But I think that we are not going to see a human steward since the game does not support such a feature -unless they add it at some point-.

They had stewards at the recent Canadian esport event with point deductions for contact and cuts. I'm not 100% sure but I believe penalties were completely turned off in the races. I'll have to double check but if that's the case, the only sensible system will have human referees. I hope they keep it as it in real sport though. Only punishing one person if there's definite reason too.

I again agree that something had to be done.But I also think that the "new" system is not the solution.

The penalty system should be the same no matter your rank or racecraft or "level".
Its supposed to be an e-sport title.It must have the same rules for everyone.I should not be able to get away with a "tap in the back" just because I am worse than others.

I'm a much better driver in real life but then I don't use a DS4 to control my real car. Things would likely be different if I did but I've got to assume (I hate doing that...) that the higher up the ranks you go, the more wheels you'll see used. Penalties have be proportionate to skill so you should still end up with fair system overall.

@Outspacer Forgot to reply, sorry.

I can't fault you for not risking it. While I'm not a fan of smurfing, why not set up a new account in the interim for your racing fix? You'll fly up the rankings. Go back to your main account when they look at reducing the severity of penalties further up.

 

[ststav01]

The daily race B at Alsace is simply ridiculous at A/S S/S - out of 10 races, I got punted in 7 or 8 and you guessed it - I was penalized - some of the punts weren't that big but anyhow - I got a penalty causing me to lose 2-3 positions ... just ridiculous.

 

[JulesDennis]

No, what happened was that PD's SR system failed to measure drivers accurately enough at all, so it didn't filter out those without respect from those with respect. If people want to play rubbin' is racin' that's fine by me BUT ONLY IF they're in some lower SR rank.

I agree mate but for sure you cant believe that every single contact should give players a penalty.

I was just saying what rank I was... not saying I went up because of the new system.

No, it only says that those ignoring time penalties will have additional time penalties and those additional time penalties due to not observing initial penalties will depend on DR

- If a driver continues to drive without complying with a certain amount of Time Penalty, additional time penalties will be added. (The additional penalty depends on the DR);

Like I said the penalty system is not the same for everyone.
DR B drivers were pointing out here that they dont get penalties every single time they have a contact.DR A and S players are posting video's with penalties for even a "feather" contact with others.
The patch notes clearly stats that additional penalty will be awarded depending on DR rating.
That means that higher DR/SR drivers get punished more easy and more harsh than lower rated drivers.
This is wrong,no matter how you look at it.Thats my point.
If I am a DR D driver I can get away more easy compared to you, ,a DR A driver.Why?Will I learn how to race propebly?Or your extra punishment will make me change "manners" as I move up the ladder myself?
Check the post @ststav01 just wrote.He got hit and got a penalty every single time.

They had stewards at the recent Canadian esport event with point deductions for contact and cuts. I'm not 100% sure but I believe penalties were completely turned off in the races. I'll have to double check but if that's the case, the only sensible system will have human referees. I hope they keep it as it in real sport though. Only punishing one person if there's definite reason too.

Penalty system was off because it does not work

....Penalties have be proportionate to skill so you should still end up with fair system overall.

I strongly disagree to that.Penalties should be the same for everyone,no matter their skill/rank.

 

[Seb Weasel]

Wow... This thread is on fire! Looks like we are all passionate about this issue, which I take as a good sign.
People who are against, please, post some videos if you can, we really need to see more footage to understand your point of view. A picture is worth 1,000 words, a YouTube video probably 1,000,000 .

I'm going to stop trying to convince other drivers, I'm starting to feel like a GT zealot!!
I hope that we can all agree however that, this being a completely new kind of GT less than 5 months old, what PD needs most of all is more time.
In this day and age of loot boxes, micro transactions, paid DLC, I think it could far, far worse.

Can you post a video? Not saying I don't believe you, just that I'd love to see it to understand your point of view.

The daily race B at Alsace is simply ridiculous at A/S S/S - out of 10 races, I got punted in 7 or 8 and you guessed it - I was penalized - some of the punts weren't that big but anyhow - I got a penalty causing me to lose 2-3 positions ... just ridiculous.