Just Raced Under The New Algorithms and Rules

  • Thread starter GTFraker
  • 1,445 comments
  • 77,275 views
ASH32
That's a good idea, if it's as harsh as the videos make it seem, it may only take a day or two though. :lol:

I worry all the slowing down to serve the penalties will do more harm than good though, would have been better to just apply them after the race if they couldn't implement a system to make you give back places when you hit another car off track or hit to pass.

Still at least they are trying to improve things. 👍
Click to expand...
They should ghost anyone slowing to serve a penalty
 


Just did some testing of the penalty system in an open lobby (sport mode may be different but i'm not willing to sacrifice rating).

I found three main things:
1. The penalty will not increase until 20 after the penalty appears on your screen, not from when you actually cut/make contact (at 6:00 in the video)
2. The penalty will not increase if it's less than 5 seconds (at 8:00 in the video)
3. when it does increase it will increase by 1 second every 2 seconds
 
FLX1981
This game just turned into a big wussy fest. I m alright with punishing derp behaviour but PD doesnt seem to know that rubbing is racing. If I get a penalty as soon as my car is in the same zip code area as my opponents car, that sucks the fun right out of racing.
Click to expand...

Yup. I will surely be doing less daily racing now. If this evening's FIA races become a penalty fest, I will stay away altogether.
 
Outspacer
Well I think PD got the basics right, but with some flaws.

The SR system (when it was no-fault) was simply too generous, giving +SR for driving round empty track, and we never got to see what a refined, more balanced, version of that no-fault system might have ended up like. Even with the very dodgy fault determination, I think it does serve to separate clean from dirty drivers to some extent (although the problem remains that perhaps too many manage to be S rated).

The DR points scoring is/was OK, without point penalties applied. The limits placed on DR letter based on SR work pretty well as an analog to iRacing's licenses, without using yet another rating scale. It's a penalty... without being a penalty in points. If matchmaking is based on SR and DR letter, someone with high DR points but low SR points (and therefore low DR letter) gets put in scrappy races where they are more likely to lose DR points, and justice is served that way. I think those DR letter limits are a good way to do it, but it depends on properly working SR.

Instead of refining what they had we're getting hastily tacked on kludges based on suggestions from users, who generally aren't considering the balance of the whole system, just individual aspects of it.

Matchmaking is key to getting these ratings to work correctly, especially DR. My suspicion is that PD expected a lot more players, and that would give the matchmaking more flexibility. With low numbers it fails to match similar DR letters together, and just has to match based on SR, which doesn't let each player's DR evolve as perhaps it should.
Click to expand...

I think the problem was/is how "simple" the rating system is.
You get 2 ratings: one for "pace" and one for "clean driving".The matchmaking is supposed to happen calculating both values.And the problem starts here:in theory is a good idea but in reality it has problems.Now add the fact that the penalty system in the game is not the best and that -as you pointed out- SR was "easy" to gain or "gamed" we have pool of players that in some cases do not belong together.That creates a lot of fustation to players and that also affect the player base (as some of them stop playing).
I am not sure if PD was expecting more players (aka customers) but in any case the system should not be so heavily depended on the player base (if this is tha case).
iRating system is more compicated but it make sense and works:
Faster cars/series need better license.In order to get that you need "top" safety rating.Matchmaking is calculated within divisions and splits and depend on your irating.In order to go "elite" -pro/wr- you need to have top results in the top division/splits/license (A) for a "season".
Now I keep coming back to the iRacing rating system because pretty much every other developer are doing -or trying -something similar.iRacing system is not perfect btw but its really good.
With that said I think its kinda clear that a more "simple" system has more problems.And adding the "problematic" -for me at least- "penalty system" adds loads to those problems.If the in-game penalty system was better then both DR/SR and matchmaking would be better from the start.
And now they decided to make it more "strict" but imo that will not solve the matchmaking/rating problems.I mean if every contact=negative DR/SR (because the overall penalty system is not working) you are going to create more problems that the ones you are going to solve.
Like I said I dont have a personal problem with more strict penalty system but in my book it should have been forced from day one and improve from there and not the other way around.Now the player base have "learned" to race in a "spesific way" and I dont think that these changes will improve the quality of "Sport mode" races or increase the player base.
Some fellow members in this forum are saying they are going to stay away from Sport mode for a week or so until they see how the system works.That cannot be a good thing for sure.
 
Well, I just tried it and I got hit with the stupid Yellow Flag penalty that's STILL in the game even though they should NEVER have implemented it.

How did I get this penalty you ask? The usual flagrant violation way. A car spun causing a yellow flag, I passed the ghost and two cars passed me under the yellow. Boom, 2 second penalty to me that I could not drive off. I had to slow to get rid of it and went from 6th to 10th.

Oh well, there goes that part of the game :banghead:
 
JulesDennis
I think the problem was/is how "simple" the rating system is.
You get 2 ratings: one for "pace" and one for "clean driving".The matchmaking is supposed to happen calculating both values.And the problem starts here:in theory is a good idea but in reality it has problems.Now add the fact that the penalty system in the game is not the best and that -as you pointed out- SR was "easy" to gain or "gamed" we have pool of players that in some cases do not belong together.That creates a lot of fustation to players and that also affect the player base (as some of them stop playing).
I am not sure if PD was expecting more players (aka customers) but in any case the system should not be so heavily depended on the player base (if this is tha case).
iRating system is more compicated but it make sense and works:
Faster cars/series need better license.In order to get that you need "top" safety rating.Matchmaking is calculated within divisions and splits and depend on your irating.In order to go "elite" -pro/wr- you need to have top results in the top division/splits/license (A) for a "season".
Now I keep coming back to the iRacing rating system because pretty much every other developer are doing -or trying -something similar.iRacing system is not perfect btw but its really good.
With that said I think its kinda clear that a more "simple" system has more problems.And adding the "problematic" -for me at least- "penalty system" adds loads to those problems.If the in-game penalty system was better then both DR/SR and matchmaking would be better from the start.
And now they decided to make it more "strict" but imo that will not solve the matchmaking/rating problems.I mean if every contact=negative DR/SR (because the overall penalty system is not working) you are going to create more problems that the ones you are going to solve.
Like I said I dont have a personal problem with more strict penalty system but in my book it should have been forced from day one and improve from there and not the other way around.Now the player base have "learned" to race in a "spesific way" and I dont think that these changes will improve the quality of "Sport mode" races or increase the player base.
Some fellow members in this forum are saying they are going to stay away from Sport mode for a week or so until they see how the system works.That cannot be a good thing for sure.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with this last paragraph of yours!!! Just because some have accumulate a "healthy DR & SR point account".. and they are afraid to loose it on the changing "market"...

I can understand that.. greed... and that need to keep what was so hard to conquer... But then.. . those who do so will not be able to understand fully what is happening. and still will keep nagging and posting daily critics to the system without really knowing what is happening on the "battle" field!!

I think that everyone should risk.. at least during some days and trying to follow the message: "Drive carefully and respectfully as if your life and the others lives depends on it... (as in real car races)" and see what comes out of it... Before stating "Noo!! No GTS Sport" for me ever. until... a lightning of intelligence falls twice on the same right place... and it all becomes bright, beautiful, and almost perfect...
 
Voodoovaj
Yup. I will surely be doing less daily racing now. If this evening's FIA races become a penalty fest, I will stay away altogether.
Click to expand...

If everybody drives "properly" nobody will have penalties.

Also, when trying to find an even balance, it is often best to work to outer extremities and work towards a middle balance. We may see more tweaks making the system a bit more forgiving, but if they do, dirty driving will no doubt return.

Watch where you are driving. Do not take liberties. Do not "expect" anybody on track to do what YOU think. Expect the unexpected and you will stay penalty free.

I welcome the changes to be honest, because the dirty driving in high ranks has kept me off sport mode for the best part of a week.
 
Mirror_man
I think that everyone should risk.. at least during some days and trying to follow the message: "Drive carefully and respectfully as if your life and the others lives depends on it... (as in real car races)" and see what comes out of it... Before stating "Noo!! No GTS Sport" for me ever. until... a lightning of intelligence falls twice on the same right place... and it all becomes bright, beautiful, and almost perfect...
Click to expand...

The assumption you are making is that the people who have earned their way into a good rating are not already driving respectfully. Simply put, if you aren't already driving respectfully you won't earn a good rating.

Now, even when you drive respectfully, you're getting kicked in the teeth. How is that a good thing?
 
Mr616
If everybody drives "properly" nobody will have penalties.

Also, when trying to find an even balance, it is often best to work to outer extremities and work towards a middle balance. We may see more tweaks making the system a bit more forgiving, but if they do, dirty driving will no doubt return.

Watch where you are driving. Do not take liberties. Do not "expect" anybody on track to do what YOU think. Expect the unexpected and you will stay penalty free.

I welcome the changes to be honest, because the dirty driving in high ranks has kept me off sport mode for the best part of a week.
Click to expand...

Gee thanks. I had no clue was I was doing before :rolleyes:

http://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=1197461

Sport Mode Performances41,832 (in the Top 1%)
Sport Mode Sportmanship (SR)99/99
Sport Mode Wins102
 
Voodoovaj
The assumption you are making is that the people who have earned their way into a good rating are not already driving respectfully. Simply put, if you aren't already driving respectfully you won't earn a good rating.

Now, even when you drive respectfully, you're getting kicked in the teeth. How is that a good thing?
Click to expand...

How are you getting kicked in the teeth by this new system?

Yellow flags don't count as that was a borked feature before the update.
 
I like the sound of this new system, but im also worried about the deflation of DR. How do they plan to get those points back into the system? clean race DR bonuses would help with this

Does anyone have an idea about how much DR you lose for contact? is it scaled like penalties, or a flat number for contact with an opponent?
 
Yellow flags...
Seems like PD throws the yellow flag for the first car to loose control... and if yellow is out, and that car is ghosted, you are in the good.
This works good/proper when only one car is wrecking/ghosted.
However, the game is totally oblivious when there are actually 2 or 3 cars out of control and ghosted...
You pass any of those wrecking and ghosted cars and you get a penalty... which is BS.
The game knows enough to ghost all the cars involved... how can it not know enough to allow you to pass ghosted/wrecking/wrecked/off track cars under yellow...

with that out of the way... I really think Dr. penalties are counter productive... especially if timed penalties are now "enforced" and compounded.
 
Mr616
How are you getting kicked in the teeth by this new system?

Yellow flags don't count as that was a borked feature before the update.
Click to expand...

Just as I stated in my earlier post.

Voodoovaj
2 second penalty to me that I could not drive off. I had to slow to get rid of it and went from 6th to 10th.
Click to expand...

If you can't drive off the penalties, regardless of what they are for, you're screwed every time this system unfairly penalizes you. I've been hit with penalties in the past for other driver's faults, which I lump into the yellow flag penalties. So now, every race isn't something I am excited to enter. It's something I totally dread.
 
Though probably not that popular right now or for the next short time, I would like to thank Polyphony Digital for working to constantly improve the experience they offer. As the new game market almost requires a title to be supported for some time after release, I feel I have gotten a great value out of my purchase.

So, I haven't been home to try out the new updates yet; however, I feel a more stern ruling was definitely required in the Sport mode if Polyphony is truly seeking the goal of a racing simulator. Online drivers are too often and prevalently making excessive/aggressive behaivors which are not commonplace on the track in the real world, thus making the game experience less authentic. Although I imagine most players could still be using a controller (like myself) to drive a car around a track, it should be safe to assume such people are interested in a legitimate race format nonetheless.

Obviously racing is highly competitve and people do not drive like a pack of lemmings, so feelings may get hurt, bumps will be had. Though, it seems a major component to the entire penalty system is nearly completely missing. I do believe the increased strictness was required, however the system is nearly useless to people who are unfamiliar with track etiquette and basic rules. Drivers make mistakes in the real world, but they are trained in how to execute a recovery. The game gives us nearly nothing for this, and thus an orderly race can quickly become catastrophic for other competitors. As a few people ahead of me suggested, an academy for some basic track rules would surely benefit races as a whole.

If the penalties are more restrictive than beneficial in the long run, I'm sure Polyphony will sort it out. As the saying goes, "you must crack a few eggs to make an omelette." And if penalties and racing clean isn't your thing, there's always the cops lobbies.
 
FLX1981
I m alright with punishing derp behaviour but PD doesnt seem to know that rubbing is racing.
Click to expand...

In the words of YouSuckAtRacing.com, "Rubbing isn't racing." (It's actually a real website, it's really educational too.)

There has always been a problem with line cutting overlapped cars and weave blocking... all real world racing fouls that 80% of SR S drivers committ in this game. If these new fixes penalize poor drivers that don't know how to take a chicane running two wide, then I'm all for it.

It's exhausting to shorten my exit so the other driver has space only to have them try to run me off of my line while we go to the next corner, all without a penalty because they're soft nudging me. No offense, but I'd rather not rub.
 
JulesDennis
I think the problem was/is how "simple" the rating system is.
You get 2 ratings: one for "pace" and one for "clean driving".The matchmaking is supposed to happen calculating both values.And the problem starts here:in theory is a good idea but in reality it has problems.Now add the fact that the penalty system in the game is not the best and that -as you pointed out- SR was "easy" to gain or "gamed" we have pool of players that in some cases do not belong together.That creates a lot of fustation to players and that also affect the player base (as some of them stop playing).
I am not sure if PD was expecting more players (aka customers) but in any case the system should not be so heavily depended on the player base (if this is tha case).
iRating system is more compicated but it make sense and works:
Faster cars/series need better license.In order to get that you need "top" safety rating.Matchmaking is calculated within divisions and splits and depend on your irating.In order to go "elite" -pro/wr- you need to have top results in the top division/splits/license (A) for a "season".
Now I keep coming back to the iRacing rating system because pretty much every other developer are doing -or trying -something similar.iRacing system is not perfect btw but its really good.
With that said I think its kinda clear that a more "simple" system has more problems.And adding the "problematic" -for me at least- "penalty system" adds loads to those problems.If the in-game penalty system was better then both DR/SR and matchmaking would be better from the start.
And now they decided to make it more "strict" but imo that will not solve the matchmaking/rating problems.I mean if every contact=negative DR/SR (because the overall penalty system is not working) you are going to create more problems that the ones you are going to solve.
Like I said I dont have a personal problem with more strict penalty system but in my book it should have been forced from day one and improve from there and not the other way around.Now the player base have "learned" to race in a "spesific way" and I dont think that these changes will improve the quality of "Sport mode" races or increase the player base.
Some fellow members in this forum are saying they are going to stay away from Sport mode for a week or so until they see how the system works.That cannot be a good thing for sure.
Click to expand...

Having a DR letter as well as DR points effectively gives a third rating (well, sort of - it's only somewhat independant - but then iRacing's license is dependant on SR). It could well have a smilar effect on matchmaking, except it isn't directly shown to us - possibly behind the scenes the GTS matchmaking is making groupings similar to license levels and divisions - in theory it could do that to some extent.

Considering that and the fact that GTS is aimed at a more casual audience, I think a simpler system is a benefit, TBH.

I think we agree that key to better matchmaking is people having more accurate SRs, and these latest changes don't look like they are going to help at all in that. What I'm also saying is that it's key to getting that DR letter restriction having more effect.

I'll try and find a good livestream tonight to see if I can find out what the DR penalty actually is. If it's just on DR letter it would be fine, but I can't think of a reasonable way of them implementing that, so I'm assuming it's on DR points.
 
If you can't drive off the penalties, regardless of what they are for, you're screwed every time this system unfairly penalizes you. I've been hit with penalties in the past for other driver's faults, which I lump into the yellow flag penalties. So now, every race isn't something I am excited to enter. It's something I totally dread.[/QUOTE]

And now harsher penalties should mean less idiots causing you to get penalties that are not your fault.

It's the first day. Calm down man jeez. I've been hoping for harsher penalties because on the whole, driving standards have dropped sharply because the old system was way way to lenient.

I certainly don't dread it now. I did before.
 
I'm all for stricter penalties for rough driving AS LONG AS the rewards for clean driving were increased proportionally.

I think many guys demands are ridiculous. There is no way possible to totally eliminate penalizing the wrong driver in a 2 car accident. Real people, in real racing, with slo mo instant replay can't even determine who was at fault many times. Also take into account that 90% of drivers who are at fault, deny they were at fault!! So there is no way a game can determine who was at fault. I agree that it can do a better job than it does, but many will never be satisfied until they get zero blame.
 
One problem with the new system is, that right now people just lift of the gas way too much. Especially when they're on the racing line!

I think this just needs getting used to by most. And maybe for that, PD could introduce another driver license video!? One that shows how to react and where to drive off the penalty in the race? Would be a start for some :)
 

Latest Posts

Back