Kamui Kobayashi tested the F10 at Fiorano

[SagarisGTB]

Edit: It was interesting watching the tape of the 2008 Malaysia race. The Massa of that race was the error-prone and not-particularly-quick Massa we saw in 2011 and two-thirds of 2012. Which to my mind raises the question of which was the aberration, his 2008 title run or his more recent non-contendership.

Massa struggled to get to grips with no traction control in the first two races of 2008. After that he was fine again.

 

[Famine]

Yes but he didn't enjoy the pressure that came with being a Ferrari number 1 driver, as we all know he isn't the PR hype machine that Ferrari wanted him to be.

Dunno... he's selling "Go away I know what I'm doing" shirts like hotcakes right now. I imagine the "Someone should punch him in the face" ones will follow.

Not to forget his lucrative Magnum and Andrex sponsorships.

 

[R5]

Dunno... he's selling "Go away I know what I'm doing" shirts like hotcakes right now. I imagine the "Someone should punch him in the face" ones will follow.

Not to forget his lucrative Magnum and Andrex sponsorships.

Oh, Famine. It's "Leave me alone I know what I'm doing"

I have one. But I have mine for the message. Kimi's first win for Lotus really...

 

[Samus]

Dunno... he's selling "Go away I know what I'm doing" shirts like hotcakes right now. I imagine the "Someone should punch him in the face" ones will follow.

Not to forget his lucrative Magnum and Andrex sponsorships.

Heh, I guess that would count at unintentional PR and promotions. It was the intentional forced stuff he didn't like.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

Oh, Famine. It's "Leave me alone I know what I'm doing"

I have one. But I have mine for the message. Kimi's first win for Lotus really...

What he actually said was, "Leave me alone, I know what to do." The commonly-accepted version is rapidly becoming the most famous misquote in racing history.

 

[R5]

What he actually said was, "Leave me alone, I know what to do." The commonly-accepted version is rapidly becoming the most famous misquote in racing history.

Thanks to the T-shirt... There are actually quite a few of these tees. There's a one where it says "Have you stopped drinking?"
"NO!"

Meh. It is kinda poor PR... That said...

http://youtu.be/wZ4v-asHqJI

A poorly dubbed over advert is much worse than a T-shirt...

 

[HKS racer]

Once again Massa proves he is no longer a competitive driver. Another crash.

Damn you and Fiat business in Brazil.

 

[Samus]

You've still not shown any proof of that.

 

[HKS racer]

You've still not shown any proof of that.

LOL. He is in Ferrari from how many years? 2006? Before Massa we had.....
another brazilian...
Barrichello.

But at least Barrichello wasn't crashing all the time.

 

[Samus]

That proves....nothing.

 

[HKS racer]

That proves....nothing.

Mr. Samus the Judge said.

 

[F1 fan]

Mr. Samus the Judge said.

Me too.

 

[HKS racer]

Me too.

Let's say, your wife invite me your home three days a week for 6 years, and I always go away 30 minutes before you come back from work.

You go in the pub, and friends asking you about that.. and you say.. "that proves nothing."

 

[SilverArrow]

Let's say, your wife invite me your home three days a week for 6 years, and I always go away 30 minutes before you come back from work.

You go in the pub, and friends asking you about that.. and you say.. "that proves nothing."

What?

 

[F1 fan]

Let's say, your wife invite me your home three days a week for 6 years, and I always go away 30 minutes before you come back from work.

You go in the pub, and friends asking you about that.. and you say.. "that proves nothing."

Spare me the ridiculous analogies. Haven't you ever heard of Sigmund Freud?

 

[R5]

Let's say, your wife invite me your home three days a week for 6 years, and I always go away 30 minutes before you come back from work.

You go in the pub, and friends asking you about that.. and you say.. "that proves nothing."

Alonso is their PR machine...

Remember this?

http://youtu.be/wZ4v-asHqJI

Now, please post proof of an ad with Massa in an ad for Fiat; because nothing is true without proof.

 

[freshseth83]

Wheres the Kobayashi discussion? Massa and his crashes might be bad luck, might be reason to move on in Ferrari. But theres no reason to talk about that here. Lets see how Kobayashi does in his first outing at LeMans.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

LOL. He is in Ferrari from how many years? 2006? Before Massa we had.....
another brazilian...
Barrichello.

But at least Barrichello wasn't crashing all the time.

Perhaps Ferrari too Barrichello and Massa because they felt those drivers were the best choice for them. And when it comes time for Massa to leave Ferrari, they will use the same logic to chose his successor.

 

[HKS racer]

Perhaps Ferrari too Barrichello and Massa because they felt those drivers were the best choice for them. And when it comes time for Massa to leave Ferrari, they will use the same logic to chose his successor.

Problem for Fiat is there are no longer decent brazilian drivers in F1 so I guess they gonna keep Massa until the end of his career.

Alonso is their PR machine...

Remember this?

http://youtu.be/wZ4v-asHqJI

Now, please post proof of an ad with Massa in an ad for Fiat; because nothing is true without proof.

Brazilians actually buy Fiat cars also because a brazilian driver is actually driving a Ferrari F1. National pride is a huge marketing tool, much more important than a lame commercial. Massa won two times at Interlagos, that was a massive marketing boost for Fiat. Problem is he is not longer that competitive.

 

[Furinkazen]

Problem for Fiat is there are no longer decent brazilian drivers in F1 so I guess they gonna keep Massa until the end of his career.

Brazilians actually buy Fiat cars also because a brazilian driver is actually driving a Ferrari F1. National pride is a huge marketing tool, much more important than a lame commercial. Massa won two times at Interlagos, that was a massive marketing boost for Fiat. Problem is he is not longer that competitive.

Show me the Brazilian sales and marketing figures.

 

[Samus]

Problem for Fiat is there are no longer decent brazilian drivers in F1 so I guess they gonna keep Massa until the end of his career.

Brazilians actually buy Fiat cars also because a brazilian driver is actually driving a Ferrari F1. National pride is a huge marketing tool, much more important than a lame commercial. Massa won two times at Interlagos, that was a massive marketing boost for Fiat. Problem is he is not longer that competitive.

But why Brasil? Are you saying that if Fiat decided their car sales were declining in Russia Vitaly Petrov would be in the Ferrari seat next?

I've yet to see you provide a link between a Brasilian Ferrari driver and Fiat wanted to sell more cars in Brasil.

 

[niky]

Let's see if Massa is doing his job, shall we?

(projection begins at 2012)

Seems like he's not doing a very good job. The uptick in market share doesn't even correspond to his near-championship season in 2008.

Fancy that... Massa almost wins the Driver's Championship, and Fiat loses market share compared to the previous year. Note: Market share, not overall sales. Because overall sales slumped in 08 due to the crisis, but market share should not.

Unless you have special Massa-branded editions, like the Schumacher Fiat Punto Abarth, you're not going to get many direct F1 related sales.

Instead, what Fiat is attaching the F1 branding to is a Jeep. Oh, the irony.

Ferrari wins don't drive Fiat sales. At least not Ferrari wins by Massa.

Just like Porsche race wins don't drive Audi sales. And Audi LeMans victories don't drive VW Up! sales.

-

Most of us here are resigned to the likelihood that Massa is kept at Ferrari for marketing reasons. But marketing for Santander, not Fiat.

 

[R5]

You still haven't shown any adverts with Massa. That's what we want, to see actual PR involving Massa. He's won twice at Interlagos because he had his home crowd supporting him, Vettel, Hamilton, Rosberg and any of the others will tell you this makes a huge difference to the confidence.

But even still, Fiat wouldn't focus on JUST Brazil, and they get barely a mention on the F1 car. Ferrari benefit from it so much more… and the sponsors do… so please, just stop with this stupid "logic"

 

[Omnis]

Thatsa MoPARe!

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Ferrari wins don't drive Fiat sales. At least not Ferrari wins by Massa.

"Ferrari are only keeping Massa so Fiat can sell cars in Brazil" is a favourite excuse of armchair experts who don't understand why Ferrari haven't replaced Massa when they themselves would have done it months ago.

 

[HKS racer]

"Ferrari are only keeping Massa so Fiat can sell cars in Brazil" is a favourite excuse of armchair experts who don't understand why Ferrari haven't replaced Massa when they themselves would have done it months ago.

At the same time internet experts like you are not able to explain why Ferrari needs to keep Massa all this time and why before him there was another brazilian driver. Rubens 2000 - 2005. Massa since 2006. Why not try to sign someone else?

Do we really need to troll ourselves thinking Massa is better than Kobaiashi, Di Resta, Sutil just to mention some decent drivers, not even considering top drivers??

You still haven't shown any adverts with Massa. That's what we want, to see actual PR involving Massa.

Are you serious?

If you think this has no marketing value because it's not "official PR marketing"
I just don't bother answer you anyomore.

Anyway This is what a Fiat-Chrysler affiliated sit thinks http://www.carsitaly.net/fiat-car-sales_brazil.htm

The brazilian car market continues to impress thanks to its growth and stability. It is now the fourth largest car market in the world, with a big potential for the coming years. Car industry has become a key activity for Brazilian economy and the government knows it. Thanks to the right policies, many car makers are looking to invest in the country in order to catch some piece of a market that has a long way to equal the mature ones in terms of new cars/1000 inhabitants. As it happens in Italy, B-Segment cars are the most favorite, followed by city-cars. Government measures against poverty result in more people with more power purchase, and then more and more people buy cars. That's why 42% of total market correspond to B-Segment cars, and it had an increase of 16% in 2012-2011, the highest among segments. Fiat is the leader of this important market since 2001. It has a strong position overthere thanks to a big and competitive range of products, most of them built locally. The Fiat Uno is Brazil's best-selling city car and counted for more tan 30% of the brand's sales in 2012. It is followed by the Fiat Palio, which had a massive advance (+76%) thanks to the new generation. The Fiat Siena and Fiat Strada are also very popular, both of them leading their segments. For 2013, things may not be that easy for Fiat. Competition will get tougher as Hyundai and GM are becoming more popular thanks to their latest products, and the Fiat Uno seems to begin its decline period.

The Brazilian car market in 2012 has given great satisfaction to Fiat. The car market has grown by 7.7%, Fiat has done better and its share increased from 22.55% to 23.82%. Incentives for the purchase of cars have galvanized the market in the second half of the year, while import tariffs increased by the government have helped the local builders. Also in 2013, the Brazilian car market very well, Fiat remains the leading manufacturer in Brazil, ahead of Volkswagen, General Motors and Ford.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

At the same time internet experts like you are not able to explain why Ferrari needs to keep Massa all this time and why before him there was another brazilian driver. Rubens 2000 - 2005. Massa since 2006. Why not try to sign someone else?

Oh, there is a very simple explanation: it's because they feel that Massa, like Barrichello before him, is the best person for that seat. The fact that they are both Brazilian is simply coincidence. Ferrari will drop Massa for someone else when they feel that he has lost his edge and/or a better driver is out there. Perhaps they are also feeling responsible for the events in Hungary back in 2009 - Stefano Domenicali said that they wanted to rally around his recovery in 2010, even if he didn't have the same fire in him.

It might not make sense to you for Ferrari to keep Massa, but that is not proof that they are simply doing it for their parent company's marketing opportunities in Brazil.

Do we really need to troll ourselves thinking Massa is better than Kobaiashi, Di Resta, Sutil just to mention some decent drivers, not even considering top drivers??

Massa is better than Kobayashi. Despite being the peoples' champion, Kobayashi never really lived up to the hype.

Massa is better than di Resta. By some accounts, di Resta is almost impossible to work with. He refuses to criticise his team, and always explains away his poor performances as being down to something else. It's like he is perpetually afraid that one wrong word will cost him any chance of a drive with a front-running team, which he assumes he is entitled to, even though he has never consistently performed well enough to justify it.

Massa is better than Sutil, who has never shown any more potential than what he has displayed. In fact, I suspect Sutil was brought back into Force India because di Resta has been beaten by two team-mates in two years, and the team are looking to drop him if the trend continues in 2013.

 

[R5]

Why hasn't Massa been fired? The same as why Vettel won't replace him.

Contracts.

 

[niky]

I just don't bother answer you anyomore.

You haven't answered. You've simply provided a press release that says something the graph I posted already did. That Fiat has a huge share of the Brazilian market.

You haven't shown how Ferrari wins drive Fiat sales. Hell, Ferrari wins don't even drive Ferrari sales. There was no great uptick during the Schumacher years, and there was no great downtick when Schumacher retired.

-

Ferrari in F1 is awareness marketing for the Ferrari brand. Your average buyer has little to no idea that Fiat owns Ferrari.

-

Again. Proof. Proof. Proof. Or, you could simply admit that this is all your opinion and is unprovable.

-

Ferrari sees a lot of marketing benefit in having Massa. Brazil is a big Formula One market, thanks to Ayrton Senna, and having a good Brazilian driver means great sponsorship opportunities. Those opportunities mean advertising money for the Ferrari team, and little more.

But of course, said driver has to be good. Massa has been a very good number two driver, and given the opportunity, almost won the Driver's Title. While he's in a bit of a rut, as prisonermonkeys states, Ferrari are keeping him for sentimental reasons. This is the team that let Luca Badoer race as Massa's replacement despite his terrible form simply as a reward for his loyalty and service to the team.

-

Of course, if you want to keep harping on the "Fiat" connection, you'll have to show evidence of it.

 

[R5]

Well said.


HKS, Massa isn't there for marketing. Hell, even Kimi Raikkonen is more of a PR machine than Massa.