Kaz interview on Eurogamer - Standards are here to stay! Poll added

[SuperCobraJet]

You'll have to explain.

In the previous posts by glassjaw, mister dog, Zuku, and myself, It already was explained.

They do have less options to choose from though

While initially, the PS4 owners would have been a more captive audience, GT's near the end of the gen cycle releases have sold very well.
I think that was the assumption at PD this time around.
However, the difference being this time that the GT6 release wasn't really a new release, just a rehash of GT5, which was only about half or less of the game GT4 was.

 

[Griffith500]

In the previous posts by glassjaw, mister dog, Zuku, and myself, It already was explained.

I think the point is that racing games on PS3 aren't selling well in general. I can't say I know anything about that, though.

While initially, the PS4 owners would have been a more captive audience, GT's near the end of the gen cycle releases have sold very well.
I think that was the assumption at PD this time around.
However, the difference being this time that the GT6 release wasn't really a new release, just a rehash of GT5, which was only about half or less of the game GT4 was.

A "last gen" GT has never released after the "next gen" hardware before, though (it was really closer to simultaneous, but that's still a strong psychological effect for "non-fans", surely). GT2 was next closest at nearly four months; GT4 was almost two years.

It's been said that there are multiple influences, I think it's important not to lose sight of that.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

It's been said that there are multiple influences, I think it's important not to lose sight of that.

While that is certainly true, considering the unprecedented nature of GT6's sales performance, I think it is reasonable to entertain a little more of an in depth analytical approach, in trying to identify a primary cause.

The fact remains that non-fan or otherwise, about Seventy five plus million PS3 owners are passing on GT6.
Again, that is an alarming negative precedent, compared to previous releases.

Perhaps I am over-emphasizing and simplifying the situation, but considering all that has transpired with GT5 and 6, it is extremely difficult from a reasonable standpoint, not to consider the established general opinion of overall decreasing quality, anything but a primary factor.

 

[Griffith500]

While that is certainly true, considering the unprecedented nature of GT6's sales performance, I think it is reasonable to entertain a little more of an in depth analytical approach, in trying to identify a primary cause.

The fact remains that non-fan or otherwise, about Seventy five plus million PS3 owners are passing on GT6.
Again, that is an alarming negative precedent, compared to previous releases.

Perhaps I am over-emphasizing and simplifying the situation, but considering all that has transpired with GT5 and 6, it is extremely difficult from a reasonable standpoint, not to consider the established general opinion of overall decreasing quality, anything but a primary factor.

I don't think it's possible to rule out confirmation bias in all of this, personally.

I would consider myself a fan, and yet I'm not so emotionally invested that I get all irrational about sales figures and my naïve impression of investors, profit or other things I could never possibly comprehend, never mind be privy to, nor would I deign to assume I know what buyers think, whether they be "fans" or otherwise. There is a drive from the self-proclaimed elite to tell the non-fans what to expect, and what to think, and, ultimately, what is "cool". I prefer to get people to think in much grander terms than that, and to seek out what gives them pleasure, never mind what others think.


Still, 5 million is a lot of units (and is still a guess). It's been said so many times, that any developer (bar a significant few) would be happy to sell half as many as any GT game does. There's room for a lot more games on the market, and only then will it be easier for people to find the games that actually suit them, rather than feel compelled to conform to what marketers and proxy marketers ("fans") want them to buy.

When it comes to balancing development costs with revenue, that's Sony's risk. Turns out we're still getting GT7, so: result? If GT6 really is such a disaster, then the void it created will be filled soon enough. Then maybe the attention of the "elite" will turn to something else, and GT can get on with quietly being itself.

As usual, time will tell all.

 

[Speedster911]

Frankly, I'd agree with this. Most Forza and GT players have staked their homesteads in their respective territories. They will buy the other systems, the respective games along with them, as well as gaming PCs for some. But it does seem that no game will touch that fanbase very much, they seem pretty devoted.


This, I'm not sure about. If you mean my post about GRID, that should be easy to explain.

Supposedly, GT6 is SO BAD that only devoted fans are buying it.

So, along comes GRID Autosport, a game that is apparently SO GOOD that buying it is a no brainer, especially in the European market for which racing games are as popular as Halo and GTA. Especially if GT6 is SO BAD that the usual market that gobbles Gran Turismo up would be expected to glom onto another game to fill the vacuum, and nothing else is forthcoming in console racing until DC and P CARS.

But, not happening for it either. Quite a mystery... except to me.

I'm assuming you've played GA? It's FAR more exciting than any GT game. In some ways, more so than even Forza.

 

[Tenacious D]

I'm assuming you've played GA?

Ohh, it's "exciting" all right. You clearly missed my posts on my experience with GA because it wasn't what I would call a good thing. Both it and Forza literally give me the shakes when I get into the midpointish part of the game because the bots just become too aggressive/violent, and the driver views don't suit me in either game, so I feel like I'm racing for my life from those idiots. I'm the minority opinion on GRID though, so I'm really curious as to why it's dying on the vine, far worse than GT6. Well, not really, but I've already stated my opinion on it.

In any case, I'm with Griff on this matter. GT6 isn't the game any of us would have made. It almost seems like PD, from Kaz on down, was all excited about working on PS4, and was so bummed when they were informed that GT6 would be a PS3 game that they halfheartedly slapped something together and released it. Like a redheadded stepchild of the series. But I much prefer to find common ground with those here who celebrate the good things which really are there in GT6. Quoting Griffith, "I prefer to get people to think in much grander terms than that, and to seek out what gives them pleasure, never mind what others think." Which here is about as easy as achieving MidEast peace.

So, hey, fans are complaining. In other news, birds are chirping. I'm sure Kaz has been well aware of our criticisms in the past, but this time, we can see that he's giving everything a "listen." He's responding, not through an interviewer, but to us more directly thanks to Jordan's work with him on the Q & A board. He's getting a good breakdown democratically of what we consider important in GT6 and beyond, and I'm heartened that pro racing and sim oriented features are very popular, especially the Livery Editor. I'm happy that the Course Maker is wildly popular, and with it, all the community features are getting a good mention. The poor sales are undoubtedly driving Kaz and the team to give us some of the goodies they might otherwise have pushed onto the GT7 To Do list. It probably means that GT7 will be that much later, but, a better GT6 would be a great buffet while we wait for the true feast on PS4.

I really shouldn't try to stifle incessant griping here, because it could lead to better things. Of course I'm always thinking of what I'd do, shut off my access to the internet and throw my "The Customer Is Always Right" sign into the trash, because it's not always true. Sometimes they're just petulant kids who can't be pleased with anything less than perfection. And perfection is expensive. I'm sure Kaz is regretting that word, because PS3 has proven not to be the magic box he thought it was, nor his ambitions easy to realize. PS4 is a way different story, so let's see how that goes.

And I do hope that Kaz and the team get jealous of the attention given GRID, Assetto Corsa, Drive Club and Project CARS, and get the fire in their bellies to flaunt the mad skills that make other developers green with envy. I want GT6 to be silver, and GT7 to be Unobtanium.

 

[mr_serious]

... because the bots just become too aggressive/violent...

You say this about every single racing game other than GT.

I've just been playing Shift 2 all afternoon only racing nurburgring against the bots . I treat them as if they are real drivers & they do the same back.

News for you... in racing all your competitors are aggressive & they all want to win.

Just make sure your car isn't in a silly position that it shouldn't be and it is easy to get race after race of clean, competitive racing.

It just takes a bit of practice, but games that take a bit of practice seem to be out of fashion these days.

[edit] PS. I haven't won a single race all afternoon, I came second once. However the actual racing has been excellent.

 

[Speedster911]

Ohh, it's "exciting" all right. You clearly missed my posts on my experience with GA because it wasn't what I would call a good thing. Both it and Forza literally give me the shakes when I get into the midpointish part of the game because the bots just become too aggressive/violent, and the driver views don't suit me in either game, so I feel like I'm racing for my life from those idiots. I'm the minority opinion on GRID though, so I'm really curious as to why it's dying on the vine, far worse than GT6. Well, not really, but I've already stated my opinion on it.

In any case, I'm with Griff on this matter. GT6 isn't the game any of us would have made. It almost seems like PD, from Kaz on down, was all excited about working on PS4, and was so bummed when they were informed that GT6 would be a PS3 game that they halfheartedly slapped something together and released it. Like a redheadded stepchild of the series. But I much prefer to find common ground with those here who celebrate the good things which really are there in GT6. Quoting Griffith, "I prefer to get people to think in much grander terms than that, and to seek out what gives them pleasure, never mind what others think." Which here is about as easy as achieving MidEast peace.

So, hey, fans are complaining. In other news, birds are chirping. I'm sure Kaz has been well aware of our criticisms in the past, but this time, we can see that he's giving everything a "listen." He's responding, not through an interviewer, but to us more directly thanks to Jordan's work with him on the Q & A board. He's getting a good breakdown democratically of what we consider important in GT6 and beyond, and I'm heartened that pro racing and sim oriented features are very popular, especially the Livery Editor. I'm happy that the Course Maker is wildly popular, and with it, all the community features are getting a good mention. The poor sales are undoubtedly driving Kaz and the team to give us some of the goodies they might otherwise have pushed onto the GT7 To Do list. It probably means that GT7 will be that much later, but, a better GT6 would be a great buffet while we wait for the true feast on PS4.

I really shouldn't try to stifle incessant griping here, because it could lead to better things. Of course I'm always thinking of what I'd do, shut off my access to the internet and throw my "The Customer Is Always Right" sign into the trash, because it's not always true. Sometimes they're just petulant kids who can't be pleased with anything less than perfection. And perfection is expensive. I'm sure Kaz is regretting that word, because PS3 has proven not to be the magic box he thought it was, nor his ambitions easy to realize. PS4 is a way different story, so let's see how that goes.

And I do hope that Kaz and the team get jealous of the attention given GRID, Assetto Corsa, Drive Club and Project CARS, and get the fire in their bellies to flaunt the mad skills that make other developers green with envy. I want GT6 to be silver, and GT7 to be Unobtanium.

Apparently FM4 wasn't enough to stir up the fire in their bellies! I think they're lost in their own world at the moment, and don't care much about competition.

PC sims are not even on their map, in terms of any competition whatsoever. PC sims are after all, in a dreamy league of their own.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You say this about every single racing game other than GT.
News for you... in racing all your competitors are aggressive & they all want to win.
Just make sure your car isn't in a silly position that it shouldn't be and it is easy to get race after race of clean, competitive racing.

It just takes a bit of practice, but games that take a bit of practice seem to be out of fashion these days.

I quite agree. If you don't hang out in their blind spot entering a corner and instead try and get alongside while outbraking, the AI will leave you room and not move over into you. The only AI that I find overly aggressive is Ravenwest, and just like in real racing, you have to know who your opponents are, their tendencies and how to deal with them. With Ravenwest you simply cannot allow them to get inside of you on entry because they'll barge through. Simple enough to fix, just defend your position and try to outrun them our use traffic to outfox them. It makes for quite a challenge if you have an open mind.

I suspect Project CARS will sell in any case because of the way it was funded.
At present Watch Dogs is selling more on PS4 than PS3, so I don't really think it is a no-brainer.

How does PCars funding model affect it's sales?
And the Watch Dogs example would not really be relevant to whether GT6 would have sold more on PS3 vs. PS4 since it likely wouldn't be a two console release, too much work for their little team. They couldn't finish it for PS3, no way they'd also be able to finish it for PS4. The Watch Dogs example shows they can sell more units of that game on the PS4 vs. the PS3 with a simultaeous release, it doesn't mean GT6 would have sold more on PS4 if the game was only released on PS4.

 

[Tenacious D]

You say this about every single racing game other than GT.

You might make note of an oft repeated phrase in these posts.

...honestly, what racer has "good" bots? Someone was very proud of Race 07's bots, but I just didn't get what he was so thrilled about.

Gran Turismo's bots are strange guys to be sure, but the only alternative I've found have been:

• Forza, Grid, NFS and the like. Aggressive bashers.
• PC sims. Boring polite cruise missiles with little personality. They go fast, they go slower, they go like they're on rails.

And that's about it. I guess I'd say as others likely will at some point, there is always online.

I really don't see anything like an industry standard bot A.I., other than polite cruise missiles which don't do a lot but keep a steady pace. If GT7's bots didn't overbrake in turns or the leaders slow down on the last lap, they would probably be the best in racing games. They have a little personality, without being crash happy tards as with a certain competitor.

This is my gig. I appreciate all the work going into those sims, and am curious what Race Room, rF2, P CARS and Assetto Corsa are bringing to the table. But at the same time, PC sims feel like silt in my mouth. Just dry, dusty, uninvolving, the bots are all polite cruise missiles, every car seems like a loaner... PC sims seem to be built specifically so online racers can compare the size of their virtual trophies. Supposedly, rFactor 2 and Project CARS are supposed to be different, but that remains to be seen.

I did a shootout a couple of years ago with my GTRs and Live For Speed against Forza 4 and GT5. And amazingly, F4 and GT5 held their own amazingly well. Yes, the sims were a bit more accurate, and yes, Forza and GT did better things in different ways, plus Forza's bots are tards, but the simulation of a car on a track was surprisingly similar. Both of these series have gone a LONG way towards being true to life in their own way.

For all their gloriousness, PC sims are essentially built to serve as platforms for gamers to start clubs and leagues online or in LANs, and have been since the dawn of the intranets. I don't know why you guys think the bots in sims are all that great, because for the most part, they're polite cruise missiles with a limited aggression tendency, much as the bots in Gran Turismo. Except in certain situations, such as in the GTRs when the bots smash their way horrifically through chicanes. Intelligence... yeah.

So either you're confusing me with someone else, or... something else is going on here.

As for GA, I think it's a simple case of two people looking at something like Obama. One person sees the savior of America and the world, and the other sees an Antichrist. It's the same person, but a matter of perceiving the same aspects in a different light, or ignoring issues.

I wondered if I had a bad install, or everyone having good experiences was on the PC version or something. But I went back and looked at those YT vids I'd been pouring through to get an idea of the game I should or shouldn't go for, and even though many of them had the gamer racing pretty much as recklessly as the bots, a few weren't, and the bots all were pretty much just... nuts, all of them. Not every meter, but in the course of the race, they would wreck into the gamer and each other routinely, fight for position at all cost, act like they didn't care what happened to their cars... the kind of antics a room host wouldn't tolerate in humans.

Forza, same thing. Go up in the ranks, and the bots get increasingly violent. It's been ages since I've raced, but the Le Sarthe money race I did in Forza 4 over and over began from a standing start, and more often than not, it resembled a demolition derby at the green light as much as a race. But then what can you expect when the marquis bot figure of the game is a guy named M Rossi, who's racing style is described as "angry"?

Quick edit: I will have to say that as aggressive as Forza's bots are, they don't fight much of the way down the track like GA's bots tend to, possibly because they spread out a lot more. M Rossi, he's another story.

Go on the boards for both series, and aside from a few new guys who complain about how bad the bot behavior is, the rest of the board generally love the games. So evidently there is a certain gamer type that looks at excessive bot aggression as an exciting challenge, bonus, whatever. Plus, the people on the boards are generally veterans of the series, and have a taste for this kind of racing environment. And that's fine and all, but it's just not for me. I just wish I could have seen what I was witnessing in those videos a little more clearly. I prefer those polite cruise missiles who might nudge your fender a bit trying to edge past.

 

[SebastianL]

I dont get it, so people complain because of the fact that there is a wide range of car's to choose from and that it is the biggest in the entire race game sector ??? Must be hatemail instead of opinions.

If your tired of playing Gran Turismo just play something else or buy a Xbrox.

 

[synon]

And the Watch Dogs example would not really be relevant to whether GT6 would have sold more on PS3 vs. PS4 since it likely wouldn't be a two console release, too much work for their little team. They couldn't finish it for PS3, no way they'd also be able to finish it for PS4. The Watch Dogs example shows they can sell more units of that game on the PS4 vs. the PS3 with a simultaeous release, it doesn't mean GT6 would have sold more on PS4 if the game was only released on PS4.

True, but I was disagreeing with the "no-brainer" assertion, not the premise per se.

How does PCars funding model affect it's sales?

Because of the interest in it generated by the members.

 

[MXH]

I dont get it, so people complain because of the fact that there is wide range of car's to choose from and that it is the biggest in the entire race game sector ??? Must be hatemail instead of opninions.

If your tired of playing Gran Turismo just play something else or buy a Xbrox.

You're either new here or have a hard time grasping the fact that people - including me - complain(ed) not because GT has a wide range of cars (duplicates excluded) but due to the wide gap in quality between standard and premium cars.

 

[Griffith500]

I quite agree. If you don't hang out in their blind spot entering a corner and instead try and get alongside while outbraking, the AI will leave you room and not move over into you. The only AI that I find overly aggressive is Ravenwest, and just like in real racing, you have to know who your opponents are, their tendencies and how to deal with them. With Ravenwest you simply cannot allow them to get inside of you on entry because they'll barge through. Simple enough to fix, just defend your position and try to outrun them our use traffic to outfox them. It makes for quite a challenge if you have an open mind.

...

I only gave the Shifts half a chance (they infuriated me so much in the first few minutes for several reasons that I decided not to bother trying to modify them to suit my tastes; other games come closer with less effort), so take this with a grain of salt.

I found the AI to be inconsiderate, which is probably a weird way of putting it - it's all about them, in other words, hardly sporting. Let's just say, from experience, I wouldn't expect real people to drive like that online, say, or even when I go to a Joe-public karting gig.

Yes, it certainly was a challenge, and yes I've enjoyed racing like that in the past, but my tastes have changed.


The main problem with the AI in GT is its pace; its behaviour, when you rule out the pseudo-rubber-banding and the lifting off to let you pass (both engineered in for "fun"), is mostly acceptable, all that's left is its tendency to brake twice in corners (which is a legacy physics thing, ultimately).

PD have drastically improved the AI's awareness, and with a change to the physics framework, and attendant change to the functions the AI use to interact with that physics, we might see more consistent driving near the limit from them. When they've got that pace, we'll all be glad they're not so mean spirited as in other games, nor so blind as they were in previous GTs.

A difficulty slider (pace) would be beneficial to include right now, though, so that the rubber-banding and lifting-off can be removed outright. The "pace" and skill features introduced in B-Specs past aren't really the right thing (on their own); that's more of an intelligence / inebriation control.


Wait, how are we talking about AI? I swear I wander around with my eyes shut most of the time...

 

[mister dog]

I dont get it, so people complain because of the fact that there is wide range of car's to choose from and that it is the biggest in the entire race game sector ??? Must be hatemail instead of opninions.

If your tired of playing Gran Turismo just play something else or buy a Xbrox.

Post of the year!

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I dont get it, so people complain because of the fact that there is wide range of car's to choose from and that it is the biggest in the entire race game sector ???

Not exactly.
They are complaining because many of the cars are not of premium graphical rendering.
Sort of like Ten D, he wants tea and crumpets with his AI.

 

[mister dog]

Sort of like Ten D, he wants tea and crumpets with his AI.

 

[TokoTurismo]

You're either new here or have a hard time grasping the fact that people - including me - complain(ed) not because GT has a wide range of cars (duplicates excluded) but due to the wide gap in quality between standard and premium cars.

Yep, he's new. Must be a long time reader too.

 

[SebastianL]

Yep, he's new. Must be a long time reader too.

Well first of all I'm not new to GT, but only on this forum.

I skipped the playstation 3 because it did not convince me and buying a console for 2 or three games is not something I wanted to do.

But now I'm going to buy the PS4 with GT7 if it is released.

I only read the title so excuse me for being mislead.

Well I can understand that there are a lot of grafics freaks but trowing cars out of a game because of that ?

 

[mister dog]

I skipped the playstation 3 because it did not convince me and buying a console for 2 or three games is not something I wanted to do.

But now I'm going to buy the PS4 with GT7 if it is released.

You experienced much GT5 or GT6 or your last memory was GT4 on the PS2 then?

 

[Imari]

Well I can understand that there are a lot of grafics freaks but trowing cars out of a game because of that ?

If they detract from the experience, then yes. Or would you like the PS1-spec cars in your PS4 game as well? Lots of cars in GT2 that have never returned to the series, not to mention the endless racing mod versions.

 

[MXH]

Well I can understand that there are a lot of grafics freaks but trowing cars out of a game because of that ?

I'm by no means a graphics whore and neither does it make me one for wanting consistent graphical quality for all cars (and tracks) in future titles. Let's be honest, there certainly is something very odd and baffling about the massive graphical gap PD introduced with GT5 - which I believe is doing the series more harm than good.

 

[SebastianL]

If they detract from the experience, then yes. Or would you like the PS1-spec cars in your PS4 game as well? Lots of cars in GT2 that have never returned to the series, not to mention the endless racing mod versions.

Well why not ? If people want to play with older cars that have not been remade with new grafics, I would prefer to race with the cars that I like and am used to drive. If those cars start to become boring you can always buy a new one and if it is needed with better grafics.

I'm not saying that SONY should not make effort's to maximize visual appearance, but not buying the game because of the fact that not the entire catalog is remade is a little over the top.

If there would be nothing new in it or not a upgrade regarding to gameplay that I could understand. But do you need to own every GT that is released ?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I wondered if I had a bad install, or everyone having good experiences was on the PC version or something. But I went back and looked at those YT vids I'd been pouring through to get an idea of the game I should or shouldn't go for, and even though many of them had the gamer racing pretty much as recklessly as the bots, a few weren't, and the bots all were pretty much just... nuts, all of them. Not every meter, but in the course of the race, they would wreck into the gamer and each other routinely, fight for position at all cost, act like they didn't care what happened to their cars... the kind of antics a room host wouldn't tolerate in humans.

As I've explained many times including on this thread (and which you've never, ever acknowledged) and which you've advocated many, many, many times with GT, you have to understand the behaviour of the AI and their tendencies and adapt to them. Never be in the blind spot entering the corner, don't give Ravenwest the inside on any corner, don't go outside the AI with a guardrail right beside you, don't go two wide into a narrow part of the track etc. Incidentally these are things you would probably never do in real racing most of the time anyway and I've found, and most everyone else does too, that if you adapt to the AI they race much like real drivers and they are on pace, something the GT AI will never be, in this version of the game anyway.

I don't believe you really want real racing in the AI, I think you want a gentlemanly approach to racing, where the AI never make contact, never act aggressively, and you can do whatever you want on the track without any regard to their tendencies and still have a contact free race. Your priority is not racing or the AI being on pace, it's a stress free race with zero contact...which is what you have now.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Well first of all I'm not new to GT, but only on this forum.

I know, which is why I said "You're new" (to this fourm), but a long time reader?

 

[SebastianL]

I know, which is why I said "You're new" (to this fourm), but a long time reader?

Nope, I joined up because of GT7 and the release for PS4 wich I wan't to buy.

There where a few anoying points in the previous GT's and I found the forum for GT so here I am
I didn't even know there was a forum and a way to make contact other than customer support.

I'm more a veteran GT player : GT1,2 and 4 No PS3

 

[TokoTurismo]

Nope, I joined up because of GT7 and the release for PS4 wich I wan't to buy.

There where a few anoying points in the previous GT's and I found the forum for GT so here I am
I didn't even know there was a forum and a way to make contact other than customer support.

I'm more a veteran GT player : GT1,2 and 4 No PS3

Oh sweet! A veteran. Well welcome to Enjoy your stay.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Likewise, welcome SebastianL.
I must ask you a question, though.
Which of the previous GTs do you rate the best?

 

[Tenacious D]

Not exactly.
They are complaining because many of the cars are not of premium graphical rendering.
Sort of like Ten D, he wants tea and crumpets with his AI.

As I've explained many times including on this thread (and which you've never, ever acknowledged) and which you've advocated many, many, many times with GT, you have to understand the behaviour of the AI and their tendencies and adapt to them. Never be in the blind spot entering the corner, don't give Ravenwest the inside on any corner, don't go outside the AI with a guardrail right beside you, don't go two wide into a narrow part of the track etc. Incidentally these are things you would probably never do in real racing most of the time anyway and I've found, and most everyone else does too, that if you adapt to the AI they race much like real drivers and they are on pace, something the GT AI will never be, in this version of the game anyway.

I don't believe you really want real racing in the AI, I think you want a gentlemanly approach to racing, where the AI never make contact, never act aggressively, and you can do whatever you want on the track without any regard to their tendencies and still have a contact free race. Your priority is not racing or the AI being on pace, it's a stress free race with zero contact...which is what you have now.

Dudes, look. You either haven't read or have forgotten my little tale. Johnny should remember because this was directed at him. But for everyone's edification, here it is again.

So, I understand you were rather protective of the bots, stating that they're about as reckless as many other games, and I believe you insisted that GT5's and 6's bots were much worse. I was going to give GA's bots the benefit of the doubt, and growing tired of them in the Touring Car section, took a break to go into the Endurance Challenge part of the career, the only racing series devoted to something like FIA GT2 cars, sadly.

So, I was still gunshy from Touring, and made sure I'd lead the pack in the first endurance race. Chose an Oakley McLaren and off I went into my new career. As Darrin Gangi of ISR experienced, I blew the bots away and led them at normal pace by several seconds. In the second race, I still made sure I'd lead the pack, still not too sure about mixing it up with them yet, but I thought I'd bump difficulty to Hard. Well, at the first turn, I was banged off the track as NEARLY THE ENTIRE FIELD plowed right into me and took me off track with them. And they did it again. And that was it for me, turned them down to Easy, and they did it AGAIN! Even on Very Easy, they did it FOUR MORE TIMES. The eighth time, they would have yet again, but somehow I only got roughed up a little with some steering damage, and managed to flounder through a gap in the demolition derby to begin racing in fifth place. It took most of the lap to get past the Ravenwest guys, who fought each other as others mentioned, but when they weren't manhandling me and had to focus on turns, I floored past them, managed to put some distance between us, and manage my tires to win comfortably.

Yeah... nice racing atmosphere. Need For Speed style. And I'm not expecting much different from the rest of the game. The ONLY good thing I'll say about these bots is that the field is so tight, you really have to have serious skills to make your way through it. But without a collision? Nice dream.

I don't suppose you've noticed that Griffith500's post above says pretty much the same thing. I've raced in Shift and GRID demos, and this is pretty much how they act in both games, which is why I gave GA the benefit of the doubt, seeing as it was framed as a more serious sim-style racer.

So, maybe PC sims bore you guys to tears with their polite cruise missiles, and P CARS is completely off your radar because the YT vids I've seen of the bots make them look about aggressive as those in GT6. If you guys prefer high adrenaline extreeme racing with lots of fender banging and pit maneuvers as in Forza, GRID and Shift, that's fine. But make a thread about how every game should be like this and see how popular it is.

As Griffith says, and as I've said quite plainly, it seems to me that most gamers aren't going to like bots that would get banned if they were people in an online room. I may be wrong, but I sincerely doubt it.

 

[SebastianL]

Likewise, welcome SebastianL.
I must ask you a question, though.
Which of the previous GTs do you rate the best?

It is very hard to decide wich one's best because there is so much difference between GT1,2 and 4.

But if I would have to make a choice and pick : I would say the second game. Allthough I have great moments and memories of all of them, the second game was the most enjoyable and the one in wich I did the most exploring.

I'm buying GT2 for the third time now, those scratches can be anoying