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Kazunori Yamauchi on Gran Turismo Fan Expectations, SUVs, Expensive Wheels, Tourist Trophy, and More
- Thread starter Famine
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- 40,422
Except, uh, it's not a waste of time. Nor is it a waste of money. The "market reality" as it pertains to why iRacing is able to ignore them is because most people already ignore iRacing. For games with actual widespread popularity, the market reality for companies who make them is that they realized a decade ago that the automotive industry isn't trapped in a time capsule from the mid-2000s and a lot of people who play them would like to play them with a rough reflection of what they see on the road today. And enthusiasts today do buy SUVs. Enthusiasts don't just seek out Japanese Domestic Market cars from 25 years ago, as specific examples he name dropped. He's telling the truth of how the industry is today as the director of a game series that is being worked on today, and he's telling it as it pertained to a ship that sailed long before he gave an interview to that effect.
You don't have to like it, but your opinion on the matter in 2024 is no more relevant than people who similarly complain about it in Jalopnik comment sections; and if "we're adding a modern SUV with a cult following to our game with hundreds of cars" is all it takes to express "well I might as well go back to a some other game if they're going to do that" then I suspect PD wouldn't care to lose you, either.
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- 106
- Copenhagen
Even without adding the 35th version of some obscure JDM car (which I would love just for the heck of it), there are still so many cars that PD could add to GT7. Please, for the love of God, no SUVs in this game.
SUVs are not "mixed usage vehicles". They are glorified station wagons (or estates, depending on where in the world you are) that are used by mums to taxi their kids to school or by dads to show off their big guns. There is literally nothing, SUVs are better at in city traffic (which is 99.999% of the times you'll see them IRL. And no, there is no use for them in a racing game, driving around Nordschleife, Trial Mountain or Le Mans.
But Forza Horizon is a totally different game than Gran Turismo. 🤷♂️
That's all fine and dandy. But I already don't like SUVs IRL - and I certainly don't want to see them when I play GT. I guess, that's fair to ask - regardless of whether or not my personal opinion makes any difference whatsoever. 🤷♂️
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- GTP_Famine
We ran a C-segment estate and a C-segment CUV simultaneously for a while. There was only one thing the estate was better at: fuel economy, because it was a modern hybrid and not a 15-year old petrol-only. Everything else the CUV blasted the estate away. Guess which one we still have, as an only car?
Two particularly important parts for us are the considerably higher H5, which allows much easier ingress and egress without having to drop or climb, and the fact that the boot is both larger and higher, which allows use of all five seats and the wheelchair and luggage/shopping in the boot at the same time - or three in the cabin plus dogs, and chair and luggage in the boot. The estate needed either the chair at home or the shopping/luggage on the rear seat; not much good for a supermarket run or a family holiday.
Still, I guess people with disabilities just don't deserve the independence that cars offer, right? I mean, they certainly shouldn't enjoy it...
Our youngest daughter walks to school and always has.
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I don’t care what people buy. Not my money. I’m not an SUV fan, but millions are sold every year. If someone has the cash to buy a hot rod SUV, I’m all for it. I’ve driven a Jeep Trackhawk. It’s a ball.
- 976
- Canada
- the-1st-hawkeyez
Yeah, I drive a truck because I like to go snowmobiling and dirtbiking and like having something I can haul things in… but not in a million years would I want to drive a truck in GT7. I only drive the one I bought in game to complete the weekly’s, same goes for the Tesla’s and vision races.Funny you should mention this. I owned a Datsun 260Z, and saw myself selling it to buy back the car I sold to buy the Z in a first place. Not a crossover, but a SUV. A 2013 Nissan X-Trail 71° North Edition. Upgrade from my 2011 LE model before it, although basically identical except some silver trim and 360° camera + GPS. Both with that gorgeous brilliant white pearl paint.
I don’t regret it at all. The Exxie is such a great car. And with two small kiddos it’s safe. My Z was a 2+2 but I couldn’t possibly drive it with kids. The weather here in Norway is nasty these days. I help people who drive off the road, instead of joining the statistic.
To put it short: I love cars and a huge Nissan enthusiast. But I’m not rich, I need a car I can rely on, and works in all conditions, from driving on pure ice to asphalt, from driving on test tracks to driving my kids to daycare.
When I get rich, see me enter Euro Rally with this car.
To me this is a little like saying, I sold my car because I just found riding the bus was more practical so I think it’s good that we have some buses to ride in game. Lol
- 976
- Canada
- the-1st-hawkeyez
It’s an odd stance but it’s my stance, and my opinion. Just not a fan of vehicles like that, and even vehicles in previous releases that were useless. I think to myself, you spent time and effort on a vehicle like that when you could have put that time and effort into much more iconic car? Baffled.
But I get that they could release horse and buggy in the next update and people would defend it and bring it onto track in online races. Yes it would be hilarious but it would get old fast. For me the Tesla’s, SUV’s, Van’s and Truck’s are like that, only they lack the hilarity that horse and buggy could actually bring to the table.
I think he should make car packs. If you want SUV’s,Trucks and Van’s, but the practical pack. If you want old sports cars, buy the pack, if you want new cars or new race cars… buy the pack.
- 40,422
And in reiterating that opinion you made it clear that you didn't understand why I was pointing out why it was nonsense. The series has, since the second release nearly 25 years ago, been lousy with cars that are extremely odd for a racing game. Trucks and SUVs, in comparison to cars that in some games you literally were not allowed to race (nevermind stuff that was functionally useless like older kei cars or cars from before the 1950s or most of the one-off custom cars or many of the VGT cars) don't need "defending" in the first place from anyone. They make sense from a marketing perspective, they make sense as a reflection of the actual current state of the automotive industry and they still make sense for the purposes of a racing game.
You can just as easily race a body on frame pickup truck as you can any muscle car already in GT7. You can just as easily race any crossover SUV as you can any hot hatch or station wagon already in GT7. Nothing about them existing as additional content in GT7 in the future represents problem for any reason beyond more than the age old "Why didn't they include this car I like instead" thing; with the above-mentioned Jalopnik-style whining about how people need to gatekeep what is considered an enthusiast car until the end of time. I've been to track days. Not every car you see there is something along the lines of an Elise or a Corvette, and I understand why entirely as someone who owns an Elise and a Corvette. For you to bring up and single out Tesla unprompted, as if any of their cars after the Roadster wouldn't and don't already frequently dominate the exact kind of races that the GT franchise has always had as its bread and butter, is particularly telling in that regard.
To wit, Gran Turismo did offer car packs. PD decided that they'd rather make the series a live service game by chasing whales with microtransactions and securing rubber stamped branding sponsorships than directly exchanging money for services, probably because it is more financially beneficial and safe to do so (with the side benefit that they have to do much less post-launch content and be praised a lot more for it because it's "free"). When PD went so far as to outright lie about the matter for one game and cover it up entirely for the next until after the review period ended, it's clear that GT5-era, Forza-style monetization scheme is never returning. Though really that aspect hardly really matters, since the argument PD should just do an SUV car pack and so on so the people who don't want certain cars don't have to have them when the majority of people aren't paying for them anyway is pretty amusing in its own right.
You can just as easily race a body on frame pickup truck as you can any muscle car already in GT7. You can just as easily race any crossover SUV as you can any hot hatch or station wagon already in GT7. Nothing about them existing as additional content in GT7 in the future represents problem for any reason beyond more than the age old "Why didn't they include this car I like instead" thing; with the above-mentioned Jalopnik-style whining about how people need to gatekeep what is considered an enthusiast car until the end of time. I've been to track days. Not every car you see there is something along the lines of an Elise or a Corvette, and I understand why entirely as someone who owns an Elise and a Corvette. For you to bring up and single out Tesla unprompted, as if any of their cars after the Roadster wouldn't and don't already frequently dominate the exact kind of races that the GT franchise has always had as its bread and butter, is particularly telling in that regard.
To wit, Gran Turismo did offer car packs. PD decided that they'd rather make the series a live service game by chasing whales with microtransactions and securing rubber stamped branding sponsorships than directly exchanging money for services, probably because it is more financially beneficial and safe to do so (with the side benefit that they have to do much less post-launch content and be praised a lot more for it because it's "free"). When PD went so far as to outright lie about the matter for one game and cover it up entirely for the next until after the review period ended, it's clear that GT5-era, Forza-style monetization scheme is never returning. Though really that aspect hardly really matters, since the argument PD should just do an SUV car pack and so on so the people who don't want certain cars don't have to have them when the majority of people aren't paying for them anyway is pretty amusing in its own right.
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- the-1st-hawkeyez
Well argue away. I simply stated I don’t think vehicles should be in GT7 simply because they’re more practical in real life. You’re not going to change my mind. PD can release GT8 “the more practical real driving simulator” and only have SUV’s, trucks, van’s and other run of the mill uninspired cars and see how that goes over. Eliminate all sports cars, super cars, muscle cars and race cars. Do you think that game would sell better?
Alternatively, if they have the info, I’d like to see what car is being driven the most and which is being driven the least. But if they lied about their game before release I’m sure they’d lie about those numbers too.
- 40,422
lmao even the ignoring throwing your toys out or the making up a laughable strawman to move the goalposts against, what franchise do you think you've been playing? They've had a base model Fiat 500 in the series since 2010. They had a slushbox Vectra in its car roster for a decade. Before that they had a fleet-spec PT Cruiser, for even longer. Gran Turismo has never been what you're acting like keeping SUVs, pickup trucks and electric cars out of it is protecting.
"Not going to change my mind."
"Not going to change my mind."
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Tired Tyres
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- Tired_Tyres
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- GTP_Famine
I'm as pissed about the latter thing as anyone, but it's all on SIE, soup to nuts. I think it's only present because of SIE too, but I can't say for sure.
The former thing I give the benefit of the doubt about, as "classic" MTX has always been "real cash for game-exclusive funny money", but of course it has become a wider thing to mean "money for content". I'm pretty sure Yamauchi meant "we won't have cash for credits", but of course it did have "cash for content" (in a largely inoffensive manner, although of course it leaves the stink of the game economy being designed around it all over the title). Semantics perhaps, and maybe some technical ambiguity of meaning, but that's standard fare!
In the meantime, I realised GT2 had the Mitsubishi Pajero Mini in it back in 1998:
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Unless there's some context that wasn't being noted when GTP reported on it (which is seemingly where all the other places reporting on it sourced the news from), I'm not seeing what other interpretation there could be for it. Someone specifically asks Kaz himself at a Q&A if GT Sport would have the controversial thing that GT6 introduced and was an extremely hot button topic at the time; and he says "no" and reiterates "no" but it actually turned out "well they don't technically work in exactly the same way"
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Great discussion guys. I wish I could hang out but I’m going to SUVs and Coffee 😂 then heading to a track day it’s CUV day a friend is lapping his Rav 4 that he spent $10k modifying. Then off to parking garage car show hopefully someone brings the Hyundai Tucson. It’s great time to be a car enthusiast.Can't really think of a single car enthusiast driving a crossover because it's such so much of a car.
Of course, there are SUV enthusiasts, like Jeep's and such, but it's whole other territory of off-road driving that GT never covered up even remotely, and never will, because it's not rally. And if he's talking about Porsche cayenne's and other Maseratti/Ferrari/Lamborghini SUV's, I wouldn't call them enthusiast cars. More like "this is something that we can sell to the general public to stay afloat" cars...
Considering the whole backlash thingy and overall state of the product and the design direction, KAZ just seems to be way out of touch with the core fans of the series. That's ok, he's focused on his dream produst, which is nowadays e-sports, but that's such a niche product that it shouldn't be the main and only thing about a game as big as GT. I can't even enjoy GT7, I try as hard as I can but end up going back to GT4/5 every day after having to face extremely lame and unstable online experiences and overall lame design choices in a small GT Sport update that is GT7. I guess that even though I have completed every single GT out there and enjoyed it, I'm somehow not the target audience for KAZ anymore
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- GTP_Famine
Sport didn't have cash-for-credits MTX but it did have cash-for-content. It therefore didn't have MTX by the classic definition, but it did by the more recent definition.
Additionally, the Malaysian journo asked "will there be any microtransaction in this game, just like the previous one?" and the answer was "no"... and it didn't; we all just didn't realise at the time that it would have a different type!
To be extra fair, they weren't in at launch either; they arrived 9 months in.
And, as a counterweight to all of that, GTHD was originally planned as a compact title that you bought new cars and tracks for as you liked, much like Raceroom is now.
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What I think illustrates this point pretty succinctly is here is a GTP thread with a list of GT5's car roster by the in-game level you have to be to buy them (you have to scroll past the by-year list first). I would say the vast majority of the Level 0/1 cars on that list would be scoffed at by a lot of sims, yet there they were and it's what gives the GT4-era roster a lot of its charm, I would say.
