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Bild are reporting that Williams have set Raikkonen a deadline of tomorrow to make a decision. Bild is, however, a tabloid, and not necessarily trustworthy.
Kimi talks with Williams? - No. Signs with Lotus Renault for 2012
- Thread starter Hologram777
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- 3,033
Sometimes tabloids can be painfully accurate.
You guys you guys....the KERS/DRS doesnt mean a damn thing. The KERS he used before, the DRS is simpler than passing a sobriety test. You push a button.
Vettel won Australia without KERS didnt he? Dont remember. Its a very minor issue.
Motor sport is not an athletic sport. The car does the work, the driver is along for the ride more or less.
This isnt Michael Jordan's comeback...its not Lance Armstrong's attempt at a return, its a guy getting in a car and trying to nail apexes.
Heck, you could throw me in that RB7 and I'd bet $20 bucks I'm within 0.5 of Webber's fastest time within 30 laps of practice.
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Which fundamentally changes the behaviour of the car. Pushing the button opens the rear wing, which in turn cancels all the downforce generated by the rear wing, and cancels the drag with it. The strategic ability to deploy DRS is a fundamental element of qualifying. In fact, because the driver uses DRS at every opportunity in qualifying, the car can be set up differently, producing downforce. So while it might be incredibly simple to physically use, it radically alters the approach to racing.the DRS is simpler than passing a sobriety test. You push a button.
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Indeed - I once read somwhere that a driver can lose up to three kilograms in weight simply through sweating. But I think Rich S is a Kimi fan, trying to explain away the barriers to re-entry he faces.
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Could you name the drivers? Cause the ones that I've seen like Hiedfield and De La Rosa didn't have a gap like Shumi, now I'm not sure if those are two of the drivers your thinking of, but it was easier for them to get up to speed compared to Shumi who was out for almost four seasons. The cars in that time span changed alot, aero was restricted more, KERS was introduced and RBR became a destroyer of worlds
Seriously though I think Kimi will have better luck than Shumi only due to being familiar with KERS and the time frame of being out of F1 is shorter.
I suppose you could say Schuamcher didn't take too long to get up to speed. He wasn't doing good by Schumacher's standards then, or even now, but he wasn't far off of Nico on pace at first, and the gap is always decreasing between those 2. Then there's de la Rosa, who was promising I think. Rather anonymous for the year, but kept it clean and consistent, and was never far behind Kamui, not even for that one off return at Canada.
I was more referring to some test drivers who have done FP sessions, and done a good job there, with no experience with neither KERS nor DRS, or ever even driving an F1 car before. Verne for example, did a promising job the other day. I'm just trying to say that, if all these drivers can do it, then so can Kimi, because Schumi and Martinez were out of action for even longer.
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But those drivers come from open-wheel racing backgrounds. It might be their first time driving a Formula 1 car, but they've been in GP2, GP3, Formula 3 and so on. Raikkonen has spent the part two years in the WRC, which is about as far away from Formula 1 as he could get whilst still competing on four wheels. He's going to be rusty, to say the least.
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I think you are over-stating the importance of being familiar with everything. Sure its important, but it doesn't make 1-2 seasons of difference like it has for Schumacher. Schumacher's slow return to form has been more than just getting familiar with everything - its also been down to his driving style, the behaviour of the Mercedes, the switch in tyres (interesting to note he has been more competitive on Pirellis than Bridgestones), a variety of factors can explain his long wait for pace. Even now though he was still almost an entire second off Rosberg for Abu Dhabi qualifying.
Part of it is also that Schumacher just isn't as good anymore. As I said earlier, he wasn't exactly at his prime in 2005 and 2006 either...which is why he retired in the first place.
Yes I realise its more than just 1 test day. There is also being on the simulators, being involved with the team season by season and being there to experience the changes each season. Being a reserve driver is useful for this and is somewhat good preparation. But at the end of the day, its appeared to be fairly negative for a driver's career to spend any amount of time as a reserve driver. We've seen that the drivers who have kept their racecraft up and competed in other motorsports during their time away have comeback and performed better than those that simply sat around as reserve/test driver.
Why have De La Rosa, Wurz, Klien and Kathikeyan not won a race? Because obviously they were either never good enough or never had the car to do that. It has very little to do with their time away from the sport.
De La Rosa in particular is very impressive as generally everytime he has stepped in cars he has been competitive. Ironically his career slumps were when he had full time race seats.
Raikkonen has been at least taking part in competitive motorsports. While its not anything like open-wheel racing, the mindset is pretty similar and preparation and training is pretty close to identical. Martin Brundle has regularly mentioned that even spending a year away from racing is pretty disastorous for your race craft. So even racing motorbikes and rally cars is better than sitting around on the pit wall every race weekend.
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Heck, you could throw me in that RB7 and I'd bet $20 bucks I'm within 0.5 of Webber's fastest time within 30 laps of practice.
unless you have a senna style god given talent for driving I doubt you or for a matter of fact anyone that hasnt had previous experience in powerful open wheel cars would. Many drivers have swapped rides in the past few years into F1 cars and usually the F1 driver is over a second faster if not more than the other driver. The only not holding true was hamilton/stewart swap but that was due to being in drying conditions. And im talking drivers who are at the peak of their careers too.
hampus_dh
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Umm no
F1 drivers are fast in open wheelers because that is what they do since they are kids. RoC is a great example. The best drivers from all series compete in a wide variety of cars.
Mattias Ekström, DTM driver has won it 3 times and he has never set foot in an open wheeler.
A great example is Kimi. Fast in open wheelers but a beginner in rally.
There is no driver that is consistently a second faster then any other driver, they just have specialized themselves for a certain branch of racing.
I also doubt Rich S would be anywhere near Webber´s time.
F1 has the best open wheeler drivers on the planet.
And also, 30 laps in an F1 car means your neck muscles are gone.
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I dont believe you need god given talent to be a racing car driver.....simple as that. Senna was a good driver. Was he a gift from God......no.
I bet 1/100 people could be trained to drive as well as Senna.
How many people even race cars? Not many, its damn expensive.
When there's 2.3 billion kids go-karting like those who play after school sports than you can compare driving talent to sports.
There's no doubt F1 is hard on the neck. Thats why I'd do neck weights before hand.
I pick the circuit. I pick Montreal. I bet I can get within .5 of Webber's fastest session time after he goes out. I do 15 laps the day before and 15 laps on the day.
Before the track days I spend as much time as I want in the red bull simulator.
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Obvious troll is obvious.
You don't need a god given talent to compete in any sport, just a lot of practice. To compete at the very peak of any sport you need more than experience and a thorough understanding of the principles of doing that sport well. You need a great deal of talent.
You don't need a god given talent to compete in any sport, just a lot of practice. To compete at the very peak of any sport you need more than experience and a thorough understanding of the principles of doing that sport well. You need a great deal of talent.
hampus_dh
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There's no doubt F1 is hard on the neck. Thats why I'd do neck weights before hand.
omg... Yea sure, just 5min prior, take your laptop and put it on your head and do some neck-ups then you are good to go...
Seems like you have no idea how physically and mentally demanding it is to drive an F1 car for even 30 laps.
Then you have the trouble of getting round the first lap.
Tires are cold, brakes are cold. You have to go fast to heat the tires up but then again you will probably spin because the tires are not warm enough.
Then you must heat up the brakes which you must go fast to do so and if you don´t say hello to the barriers ahead of you.
Random guy can´t just hop into an F1 car and expect to do good.
Great example is Huttu, one of the absolute fastest sim racers there is.
He got a chance to drive a Star Mazda on a track he knows the in and outs on from iRacing (Road Atlanta)
He was 3 seconds of the pace from guys that were not F1 drivers.
And they told him that it was really really good for a guy that never had driven a real racecar. 3 seconds is good.
But you expect to be within Webber´s times despite no training just 30 laps?
Oh and the neck training before the test...
It takes months to get neck muscles that can cope with the forces an F1 car can produce.
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Kimi doesn't really have a car racing background at all. He had only done ~23 car races before taking part in his first F1 race, and that didn't seem to hinder him much when he got into the Sauber.
Remember too that Prost took a year off from F1 and came back into probably the most technologically advanced F1 car ever with no issues.
Although I still think Bottas (or some other young hotshoe) would give Williams more than Kimi will.
And I'd like to point Rich S in the direction of this video
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Oh really, I'd like to see some proof of that. If your friend was 3 seconds off I'd check that their isnt something seriously wrong with the car. Either that or he had no practice time.
I'm seeing Valentino Rossi who hopped in an F1 car having never ever raced open wheel before, and going quicker than half the F1 field at Valencia in 2006.
Richard Hammond was driving "squares", I've seen that video. I wouldnt drive like I'm rounding the corner to the grocery store.
And who says F1 drivers are better than drivers from other series......I dont think they are. Many of them do have huge wallets, but are they "better". Their better if a team needs funding.
Am I a troll? No I'm serious. I'm sick of all the hero worship on these drivers. Its completely uncalled for to raise somebody up on a pedestal because they can lap 1 seconds faster than a normal person.
Arton Senna, Michael Schumacher, Sebastion Vettel, ALonso, etc, etc. 1/100 guys.
Auto racing is pure entertainment. It does not help society more than some crappy commuter train system that costs billions of tax dollars does.
Its fun to watch but Mark Webber is not the pope & Senna was not Jesus Christ.
And for that matter.....what does the pope do to help anyone?
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hampus_dh
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Also probably one of the easiest cars to drive ever in F1.
Apart from when the electronic suspension had some issues.
iRacing TV, is on youtube, forgot the episode. Search for Huttu - iRacing.
Car was totally fine and i think he got to spend a day with the car.
Rossi was given 2 days of testing. And half the field did not have a Ferrari to drive aswell.
Oh and Rossi did test on Fiorano, do you want to know his time compared to Schumacher?
55.999 - Schumacher
58.300 - Rossi
Just 2.3 seconds...
Yea who says that? I know i said the opposite actually. But they are some of the worlds fastest drivers without a doubt.And who says F1 drivers are better than drivers from other series......I dont think they are. Many of them do have huge wallets, but are they "better". Their better if a team needs funding.
I never said that. I feel it´s completely uncalled for to claim that you can be within 0.5 seconds of Webber despite not having the physice, training and experience to drive an F1 car. With only 30 laps of practice.
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Oh really, I'd like to see some proof of that. If your friend was 3 seconds off I'd check that their isnt something seriously wrong with the car. Either that or he had no practice time.
I'm seeing Valentino Rossi who hopped in an F1 car having never ever raced open wheel before, and going quicker than half the F1 field at Valencia in 2006.
And who says F1 drivers are better than drivers from other series......I dont think they are. Many of them do have huge wallets, but are they "better". Their better if a team needs funding.
I don't think you properly understand the fundamental principles of motor racing one little bit. Even the Taki Inoues of this world would be a quicker racing driver than anyone who's ever visited this forum.
Yes you need a big wallet to get into F1. Or know someone who does. But that doesn't change the fact that these drivers at at the very pinnacle of their game. It does no team any good at all to field a useless driver, at any professional level, if they're just going to finish last. Teams want to win, they're in the sport to win and so are their sponsors.
Or a runner who can do the 100m 1 second faster than a 'normal person' or a footballer who can kick a ball slightly more accurately than a 'normal person' etc etc etc. Do any sports athletes deserve hero worship?
I still call troll.
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I'm not a moderator, or even remotely close... however I looked into this thread thinking I might hear the latest on whether Kimi Raikkonen will be driving a Williams next year. Instead I find that apparently it should be Rich S?
No. End of that one!
So, back on topic... What chance does Kimi have? Its going to take time to reacquaint himself with a Formula 1 car, but even when he does will beating Maldonado prove anything for him? Williams are in decline and unless its Cosworth 100% accountable for holding them back then his input is not going to launch the team back to the front within the next few seasons.
I would like to see Kimi return, but I don't see the interest in this deal. Williams get money and a development footing whilst Kimi becomes an also ran until he finds another route out of F1...
No. End of that one!
So, back on topic... What chance does Kimi have? Its going to take time to reacquaint himself with a Formula 1 car, but even when he does will beating Maldonado prove anything for him? Williams are in decline and unless its Cosworth 100% accountable for holding them back then his input is not going to launch the team back to the front within the next few seasons.
I would like to see Kimi return, but I don't see the interest in this deal. Williams get money and a development footing whilst Kimi becomes an also ran until he finds another route out of F1...
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Raikonnen should go back to F1....nuff said.
I never said I should be the replacement, thats absolutely putting words into my mouth!
You all are angry because I proove your heroes are false pseudo-Gods who evade taxes & stab people. But it wont stop the F1 hero worship. You;ll continue to bow down to race car drivers (glorified fighter pilots who accomplish zilch for society.)
BTW, its great entertainment. I dont hate it, but the drivers are not immortal beings.
I never said I should be the replacement, thats absolutely putting words into my mouth!
You all are angry because I proove your heroes are false pseudo-Gods who evade taxes & stab people. But it wont stop the F1 hero worship. You;ll continue to bow down to race car drivers (glorified fighter pilots who accomplish zilch for society.)
BTW, its great entertainment. I dont hate it, but the drivers are not immortal beings.
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Im talking to the RS guy who pretends to drive an F1 car with zero experience at the same speed as drivers whove been racing since before they were 10 years old. They have had the practice to hone in a talent, this guy pretends to jump in and be fast with nothing. Hence god given talent.
And also for the Huttu talk, didnt he end up throwing up from not being used to the feeling of driving at those speeds? Star mazda speeds, not even F1 speeds. I dont think anyone here is praising drivers to the level of gods, we just have respect for the select few people who put their lives on the line every weekend to give us a good show.
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A thousand people on here could with enough practice. You;ve mis-understood my argument. Its not about me, its about the amount of skill required to complete the task. Its a learn able skill, not a gifted skill.
Webber races F1 because he's LUCKY, not because he has super human skills & strength. Many could be trained to do what he does. He is not exceptionally talented. He is good, but not great. A top pro footballer or football player is great.
They race CARS. No 3-4 Gs does not require exceptional strength.
If you throw up driving a race car than you've never been on a roller coaster before. You've never done the tilter whirl, etc, etc.
Scuba diving & riding a bicycle are both more dangerous than driving an F1 car.
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Are you serious? Try doing aerobatics in a light aircraft for half an hour. You won't get close to the G-forces experienced by F1 drivers, but I imagine it will dent your optimism.
Forgive me for stereotyping, but I see you're American. Let's face it, some Nascar drivers are fairly "chunky", but I guarantee you'll be in for a surprise when you see their exercise routines. Another example, Paul Tracy. On the outside, looks a bit podgy, but his exercise routine is very rigorous, and he flies to Arizona to train.
Rich SThis isnt Michael Jordan's comeback...its not Lance Armstrong's attempt at a return, its a guy getting in a car and trying to nail apexes.
Heck, you could throw me in that RB7 and I'd bet $20 bucks I'm within 0.5 of Webber's fastest time within 30 laps of practice.
The arrogance. A lot of F1 drivers couldn't do that. What chance do you have? Take Raikkonen for example, he was a Formula One world champion, who made a move to the World Rally Championship. If he wasn't busy crashing, he was struggling to reach the top 10. This is a man used to competitive racing at the highest level. He jumps into another racing series which is very new for him, and he finds that he is no match for the cream of the crop.
On the other hand, we have a guy with little or no competitive racing experience, who believes that he can be a natural. If you think it would be that easy, take a look at the rogues gallery.
Valentino Rossi is a man who has won 7 world championships at the highest level and 2 world championships in lower levels of Motorbike racing. You haven't. You can't discount his experience when it comes to hopping on a high performance, purpose built machine and getting the maximum out of it. A lot of racers over the years have made the transition from two wheels to four. Some more successfully than others. While I agree, it is not always a recipe for success, their experience at the top of their field can partially translate to another.
Rich S
Richard Hammond also mentioned that he couldn't react fast enough. He also mentioned that he had trouble getting heat in the tyres and brakes. He lacked the mental strength and reflexes gained only from valuable years of racing experience. Let's not forget Hammond's abilities behind the wheel. While he's not exactly a great driver (infact, I believe Clarkson would have done far better had he been able to fit in the car), he has had years of experience driving high powered cars. Which is more than most people have.
Rich SAnd who says F1 drivers are better than drivers from other series......I dont think they are. Many of them do have huge wallets, but are they "better". Their better if a team needs funding.
You could argue that Fernando Alonso, arguably the best driver out there right now is inadvertently a pay driver due to the sponsorship his name attracts. Why is it bad if an up and comer brings sponsorship? It's been part and parcel of racing for decades. Alonso did bring some minor sponsorship to F3000 and subsequently to Minardi.
Vettel and Hamilton were lucky enough to have their careers paid for by benefactors and they're now world champions. Button also had significant financial backing. And take a look at Indycars. All drivers are effectively "pay drivers". Recently, Tony Kanaan almost had to sit on the sidelines as his sponsorship fell through.
And as for the "neck weights" you were talking about, have you seen the machine Nico Rosberg uses to keep his neck strong? He refers to it as a machine of torture. He wears a helmet which has weights strapped to it, and the machine effectively pulls his head around.
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Now were just circulating the same arguments over and over. Re-read my previous posts and I'll read the others.
Its impossible to convince me F1 drivers are as good as conventional athletes, their just not. Their good, but not great.
I'm not an arrogant person, I;m sorry one statement I made is used against me over and over and over. I've said plenty but little of it gets quoted.
Its impossible to convince me F1 drivers are as good as conventional athletes, their just not. Their good, but not great.
I'm not an arrogant person, I;m sorry one statement I made is used against me over and over and over. I've said plenty but little of it gets quoted.
hampus_dh
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Again you fail to understand how it works.
Think of Motorsport Open Wheeler as a pyramid. F1 Championship is the top.
Go-cart is the bottom. tens of thousands of people drive go-carts.
If you perform really well and win race after race, some team might pick you up.
That is if you perform and really shine among thousands of drivers.
And let´s say you get into a team, F3 for example. All of a sudden you have a teammate you MUST beat to stay relevant.
And of course the other 24 guys and constantly bring in points, do good on track and showcase yourself.
Maybe 1 or 2 after that season gets picked up by a GP2 team.
then you start all over again. You have to beat your teammate.
You have to showcase yourself throughout the season.
Then maybe 3 or 4 drivers gets to do a test and 1 or 2 gets a seat in F1.
Now that is where the real struggle starts.
Now the whole world is looking at you, you still have to beat your teammate and you have to do good on track.
But you see that is where you are wrong.
Webber is an exceptional driver. It´s when you compare him to Senna, Hamilton, Vettel & Schumacher where you can say ok, he´s maybe not that good.
But the fact is he would run circles around you in the sleep everyday all day.
No they run prototypes that have more in common with fighter jet then actual cars.
Funny you mention roller coasters. First of all the braking alone is closer to 6g´s.
If you weight 70kg, during hard braking you effectively weigh 420kg...
Every lap in one single corner you go from 70kg´s to 420kg´s. One corner...
In a Roller Coaster you do absolutely nothing but sit in a chair for 45 seconds.
What is the difference compared to a F1 car?
Well you have to do the steering, the braking and throttle application. All that while weighing many times more then you usually do.
Funny you mention throwing up because that was exactly what Huttu did. In a star mazda.....
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I have read all your posts on the matter. If you want more evidence on the athleticism of F1 drivers, just check what some of them do in their spare time. Rosberg and Button in particular are very handy at triathlons.
Not bad when you consider it's just a hobby.
I know how it feels to be quoted out of context, but in this case what you said seemed like the comments of a person ignorant to the world of motorsports. In your case, you are actually a fan of them. I suggest you do some research before making such bold claims.
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@ Hampus, a little condensed, but true. I will also refer Rich to the onboard shot of Vettel in qualifying, in particular, how he didn't have time to blink for a large portion of the lap.
Not bad when you consider it's just a hobby.
I know how it feels to be quoted out of context, but in this case what you said seemed like the comments of a person ignorant to the world of motorsports. In your case, you are actually a fan of them. I suggest you do some research before making such bold claims.
Edit:
@ Hampus, a little condensed, but true. I will also refer Rich to the onboard shot of Vettel in qualifying, in particular, how he didn't have time to blink for a large portion of the lap.
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More rumours in the finnish paper Iltalehti. They claim that part of the Kimi deal would be Kimi becoming share holder in Williams... Sounds wild...
Reading the article it seemed quite unreliable. Maybe a quiet F1 news day for them.
Reading the article it seemed quite unreliable. Maybe a quiet F1 news day for them.
