Kimi talks with Williams? - No. Signs with Lotus Renault for 2012

Well one has to be careful with the finnish media as they have expected the Kimi return from the date he left the Ferrari. Kimi's return would be the second coming of Christ to many finnish F1 fans so they obviously try to sell their papers with these Kimi rumours.
 
Again you fail to understand how it works.

Think of Motorsport Open Wheeler as a pyramid. F1 Championship is the top.
Go-cart is the bottom. tens of thousands of people drive go-carts.
If you perform really well and win race after race, some team might pick you up.
That is if you perform and really shine among thousands of drivers.

I like my 1/100 thesis. maybe only 1 in 1000 go-karters actually become top F1 drivers, but the point can be made that a good portion of racers are not even close to their true potential.

A good point is made that most who "make it" in motor sports did it because they had the money, they knew the right people, etc, ect. NOT because they were better drivers. Look at how incredibly successful Jeff Gordon has been, holy crap!!! Would he have ever stepped foot in a Nascar without being raised in a very well off family, definitely not. Could he have started karts with only a little bit of money, sure.

Not you could argue that some have "rose" from legitimate lack of money, like Vettel did. But thats pretty damn rare, and yes Vettel does have real talent. But most of the F1 drivers are simply above average with a lot of practice & $$$. You arent going to convince me otherwise by attacking me and saying I couldnt do this or couldnt do that.

Now when you have millions of kids playing Basketball, Tennis, baseball, it IS impressive when somebody rises through the ranks & comes out on top.

Webber might drive circles around me at first, but give me or anybody who's determined some practice time and it wouldn't be that way for long.
 
That is true :) I was stuck more on the shareholder bit as i believe everyone can buy shares in Williams today.

I like my 1/100 thesis. maybe only 1 in 1000 go-karters actually become top F1 drivers, but the point can be made that a good portion of racers are not even close to their true potential.

Well that thesis goes for every sport in the world then if not 7 billion people participate in the sport.

A good point is made that most who "make it" in motor sports did it because they had the money, they knew the right people, etc, ect. NOT because they were better drivers. Look at how incredibly successful Jeff Gordon has been, holy crap!!! Would he have ever stepped foot in a Nascar without being raised in a very well off family, definitely not. Could he have started karts with only a little bit of money, sure.

You forget one big thing in all of this though.
you still have to perform. If someone performs better then you, you can forget F1.

Bottom line is that quick drivers, really quick drivers will get any seat they want.
Why? Because they are QUICK. Not because mom has a million on the bank account.

Hamilton showed his skills when he was 5-6 years old then told Ron that he would race for him when he grows up. Ron told him, call me in a few years and we will work something out.
Now, during that time period Hamilton won 99% out of all championships he participated in, only a handful of drivers of all time have done that.
Had he came 10th in every championship from that day he told Ron he would not have been in F1 today because it´s your skills that speak louder then any money in the world.

Not you could argue that some have "rose" from legitimate lack of money, like Vettel did. But thats pretty damn rare, and yes Vettel does have real talent. But most of the F1 drivers are simply above average with a lot of practice & $$$. You arent going to convince me otherwise by attacking me and saying I couldnt do this or couldnt do that.

Webber might drive circles around me at first, but give me or anybody who determined some practice time and it wouldnt be that way for long.

Lack of money? Both him and Hamilton never spent a dime since they were young. It´s all sponsors...

And how do you get sponsors? YOU PERFORM.

I can garantuee you that you would not be anywhere close to Webber no matter how much you practice.
Do you know why? Because only the absolute best drivers in the world get to the level of F1.
The percentage is probably less then 1% that makes it into F1.

You think that with a days practice you can hang with the big boys in NHL aswell?
I mean all they do is put on a pair of skates and pass around a black piece of rubber, easy right?
 
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You arent going to convince me otherwise by attacking me and saying I couldnt do this or couldnt do that.

No one is attacking you. Personally, I am just rather surprised to see an out of character ludicrous claim from you.

Rich S
Now when you have millions of kids playing Basketball, Tennis, baseball, it IS impressive when somebody rises through the ranks & comes out on top.

Agreed, however these sports have the advantage of being played at school level. There will always be a few genuine talents left behind due to a lack of funds, but such is life. Similarly, someone may be good enough to play basketball professionally, but maybe their school does not have a team. Sometimes, it's all about being in the right place at the right time.

Rich S
Webber might drive circles around me at first, but give me or anybody who's determined some practice time and it wouldn't be that way for long.

Again, ridiculous. Webber is a racing driver who has made it despite a very limited budget. His original Minardi deal was only for a few races, but was immediately extended due to his performance in his first race. And you can't just jump in an F1 car and be fast. Your original claim was that you could get within 0.5 seconds in 30 laps. Starting from scratch, if you attempt to go that fast, you will crash.

I suggest you step down here, as you will struggle to find someone who will agree with you.
 
Mark Webbers quickest time from qualifying at Abu Dhabi.

1:38.821

Jean-Eric Vergnes quickest time in 2 days of testing.

1m40.011
 
All I know, is that if Richard Hammond, who has driven some of the fastest production cars can barely drive an F1 car, I doubt any of us normals can do it, let alone be competitive.

 
No one is attacking you. Personally, I am just rather surprised to see an out of character ludicrous claim from you.
It is out of character from me F1......but its not ludicrous. I'm not a big believer race drivers are that special. Gifted, well you could say they are in the since they've gotten where they are through a variety of circumstances.

Hammond still is not an F1 fan by the way.
 
korza493
They've been downhill since 1998.

Haha true :)

BMW gave them a superior engine. They were competitive for a a few years and could probably have won a championship if it wasn't for Ferrari whining about the wider front tires.

Nonetheless, they had the chance to win chamionships and they failed.
 
It would actually make a lot of sense to do that. One of the big problems with the return of Raikkonen is that his commitment is in question. We saw it at the Rally of France and Rally Catalunya - Raikkonen decided to retire on the spot the moment he encountered trouble, even though he could easily restart the race under super rally (and on one occasion, he probably could have made it to the next passage control without taking much of a late check-in penalty). But, in both instances, he gave up and decided to go home. By the time his team manager confirmed his retirement in France, Raikkonen was already halfway home to Geneva. So his commitment is a big question.

However, paying him in stock keeps him honest. The value of the stock will be dependent upon the team's profile. Signing Raikkonen is guaranteed to raise the share price (and securing new sponsors will doubtless do the same), but in order to maintain their value, Raikkonen will have to continue to perform. If he loses interest, his wealth decreases.
 
Fun little bit of speculation from Will Buxton:
Another Retro Williams in 2012?

Something struck me today, and it’s kinda cool.

So we all know the Kimi Raikkonen to Williams rumours for 2012, right? Of course we do. The thing is though, they are gathering pace with every passing week. The latest rumour is that Sir Frank Williams has spent the last few weeks in Qatar and Saudi Arabia, trying to drum up enough cash to lure the 2007 World Champion back to the sport.

Anyway, here’s where it gets cool.

It is rumoured that Williams, along with finding some finance from the Qatar National Bank, is trying to get a few old sponsors back on board … namely Saudia, Albilad and TAG.

This year, Williams is running a pretty mega livery, in homage to the Rothmans livery of the mid 1990s.

What chances the 2012 Williams features a Green and White livery, with the old boys back on the sidepods?

And you know the even cooler thing? Think back to 1982. 2012 will be the 30th anniversary of Keke Rosberg, the Flying Finn, taking the title for Team Willie. A mega fast Finn? In a Green and White Williams? Thirty years on?

It’s too tasty, isn’t it?

If Raikkonen bought into the team, I wonder if they would work elements of the ICE1 Racing DS3 into the FW34 livery ...

ice1racing.jpg
 
Sometimes tabloids can be painfully accurate. :sly:

You guys you guys....the KERS/DRS doesnt mean a damn thing. The KERS he used before, the DRS is simpler than passing a sobriety test. You push a button. :sly:

Vettel won Australia without KERS didnt he? Dont remember. Its a very minor issue.

Motor sport is not an athletic sport. The car does the work, the driver is along for the ride more or less.

This isnt Michael Jordan's comeback...its not Lance Armstrong's attempt at a return, its a guy getting in a car and trying to nail apexes.

Heck, you could throw me in that RB7 and I'd bet $20 bucks I'm within 0.5 of Webber's fastest time within 30 laps of practice. :sly:

Well then since it's so easy I guess you should go for it then! Or you can keep trolling and licking your Cheetoh fingers.:dunce:

I think you are over-stating the importance of being familiar with everything. Sure its important, but it doesn't make 1-2 seasons of difference like it has for Schumacher. Schumacher's slow return to form has been more than just getting familiar with everything - its also been down to his driving style, the behaviour of the Mercedes, the switch in tyres (interesting to note he has been more competitive on Pirellis than Bridgestones), a variety of factors can explain his long wait for pace. Even now though he was still almost an entire second off Rosberg for Abu Dhabi qualifying.
Part of it is also that Schumacher just isn't as good anymore. As I said earlier, he wasn't exactly at his prime in 2005 and 2006 either...which is why he retired in the first place.

I wouldn't say he wasn't in his prime those years, he was a great driver still, Alonso just happened to be that much better. However, that is subjective and not really the point I'm arguing. I can agree that age and other factors may have hurt Michaels comback, but it is still a viable point to an extent when talking about Kimi's return.

Yes I realise its more than just 1 test day. There is also being on the simulators, being involved with the team season by season and being there to experience the changes each season. Being a reserve driver is useful for this and is somewhat good preparation. But at the end of the day, its appeared to be fairly negative for a driver's career to spend any amount of time as a reserve driver. We've seen that the drivers who have kept their racecraft up and competed in other motorsports during their time away have comeback and performed better than those that simply sat around as reserve/test driver.

Why have De La Rosa, Wurz, Klien and Kathikeyan not won a race? Because obviously they were either never good enough or never had the car to do that. It has very little to do with their time away from the sport.
De La Rosa in particular is very impressive as generally everytime he has stepped in cars he has been competitive. Ironically his career slumps were when he had full time race seats.

Pretty much said that but thank you for mirroring it. I made that very point that they are weak drivers to begin with, for the very reason of covering all points. Also do you not think that running simulators and other type test rather than just the few times in the car through the year isn't anything? You acknowledge it but still seem to dismiss it. A test driver is going to have more knowledge and probably a better fighting chance when called upon rather than someone that has not raced F1 much less open wheel for two years. You gave the example of Lauda which I agreed with, he didn't race any other motorsports and was busy with his airliner yet came back full form on top. So I could be dead wrong and Kimi could win, but I bring this up because it contradicts what you're saying now. All the other examples we've debated are reserve drivers but race in other forms of motorsports...yet still aren't good in F1 which tells me they just suck all around which helps further show that Kimi has a good chance of not doing well.

I bring this up as well cause it contradicts what you've said.

Raikkonen has been at least taking part in competitive motorsports. While its not anything like open-wheel racing, the mindset is pretty similar and preparation and training is pretty close to identical. Martin Brundle has regularly mentioned that even spending a year away from racing is pretty disastorous for your race craft. So even racing motorbikes and rally cars is better than sitting around on the pit wall every race weekend.

Yes cause a half hearted Craftsman Truck run , and saying no to going to Australia for WRC is very committed and the ideal mindset for F1. Spare us! Kimi is good but don't expect a "Jesus walks on water" type run the first season from Kimi. It's just not going to happen, but to put it to rest, maybe you and I should make a wager?

Let me say this I nor anyone on this thread knows what will happen and if I or anyone else did, we wouldn't be hear arguing it. We'd be off making money, so you or I could be right we'll have to see.

Oh darn forgot about the fact that if you are a fan of F1 you automatically gain 2 seconds per lap.

This is buy far the best comment you've made, that I have seen. 👍

Great sarcasm, and volumes of truth made me laugh for sure.
 
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It's a little tricky to get this one right, because it's being translated from German into Finnish into English, but AMuS is reporting that Raikkonen wants to buy a 20% stake in Williams as part of his contract.
 
It's a little tricky to get this one right, because it's being translated from German into Finnish into English, but AMuS is reporting that Raikkonen wants to buy a 20% stake in Williams as part of his contract.

I was just there! :lol: Yeah, apparently the Petrov situation might have a tie in this. Kimi to buy out Petrov's seat for a driver's seat and stock in the team?
 
I doubt it. For one, Eric Boullier considers the situation with Petrov to be over. Apparently the comments were made immediately after the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, and Petrov apologised straight away. It took a week for the episode to come to light.

Secondly, Williams are courting the Qataris. A big part of the deal with them is getting Raikkonen on-board. They won't let that go lightly.
 
Update: rumour suggests that a driver annoucement could be three or four days away.

Update 2: Adam Cooper supposedly suggests that Williams will go for Raikkonen and Sutil in 2012. However, the "evidence" of this is a Tweet about Pedro de la Rosa going to Hispania, so I'd say this is Raikkonen fans reading entirely too much into something again.

Update 3: Italian papers claim that the Raikkonen deal is off because the sponsors have lost interest in him. They're predicting Barrichello-Bottas for 2012. Raikkonen fans have been very quick to discredit this report (despite the paper being the first to publish details of the Alonso-Ferrari deal in 2009).
 
No. It's either Williams or nothing. Raikkonen's return hinges on sponsors from the Middle East, and Williams is the only team with a vacancy and the appropriate connections. The notion that Raikkonen can show up at a team HQ and drive for them is little more than a fanboy fantasy, and one that you need to get over. It's not going to happen.
 
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