Lamborghini Huracán LP610-4

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JMoney689
Not quite as good as the Gallardo, but still pretty (to be exact the LP640 is better than the original Gallardo, however the LP560 is better looking than both Murcis). The asymmetrical intakes on the LP640 don't really matter so much to me; they're hard to notice. The Murci is less interesting but still better looking than the Aventador.
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Asymmetrical intakes?
 
CallmeDan
Asymmetrical intakes?
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Look below the door sills. You've got this on the left side:

Lamborghini_Murcielago_LP640_Roadster.jpg


And this on the right side.

lamob murci.jpg


However, on the 01-05 Murcielago they looked the same.
 
Yeah it blew my mind when I found out haha. I'm not exactly sure why it's like that but I think it has some sort of technical reason behind it.
 
JMoney689
Yeah it blew my mind when I found out haha. I'm not exactly sure why it's like that but I think it has some sort of technical reason behind it.
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I'm certain I will be corrected but I'm sure it's an oil cooling vent.
 
legacyMACHINE
I'm certain I will be corrected but I'm sure it's an oil cooling vent.
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I'm sure that's correct :)

I really don't like the look of new Lamborghinis, the Aventador in particular. It seems like the designers try too hard to make them look exciting, too many creases and lines. Like the ones ones on the hood/bonnet of the Huracan. The first Murcielagos and Gallardos were much more clean and simple while still having plenty of visual impact.
 
It can be blamed on their new "Extreme, unexpected, Italian" motto.

It'd be more surprising if they don't overdo a design and keep it clean and easy to follow.
 
At the end of the day, it's still a function over form aspect to the designers which is why it's amazing they can still come up with what they do; the car is 8% more aerodynamic, 3% less on drag, & 50% more downforce without moving aero unlike the Gallardo.

The design language now is hexagonal, which is why everything is so drastically different. However, it still integrates cues from the last 3 V12 models into the Aventador.
 
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What is not amazing is how they apply creases and lines into the basic shape. It's their design language at the moment which is unfortunte. Current Lambos just lack the simple beauty of other supercars, like the 458 or 650S (or even previous Lambo models). I don't think they will age well either.

Of course it's just my opinion, it's exciting looking for most people.
 
I think the Pagani Huayra is a prime example of a car that looks as exciting as a Lamborghini yet as elegant as a Ferrari. I wish Lamborghini had gone down Pagani's road when it came to styling, and they are related; the Zonda's design is based in part on early Diablo concepts that Horacio Pagani worked on when he was at Bertone. The Huayra is a refined Zonda, so if Horacio had kept designing for Lamborghini into the 21st century modern Lamborghinis would look much better.
 
JMoney689
I think the Pagani Huayra is a prime example of a car that looks as exciting as a Lamborghini yet as elegant as a Ferrari. I wish Lamborghini had gone down Pagani's road when it came to styling, and they are related; the Zonda's design is based in part on early Diablo concepts that Horacio Pagani worked on when he was at Bertone. The Huayra is a refined Zonda, so if Horacio had kept designing for Lamborghini into the 21st century modern Lamborghinis would look much better.
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Ehhh, the Zonda and Huayra are completely separate in terms of design.

And Horacio Pagani actually worked for Lamborghini and helped produce the 25th anniversary Countach, in exchange mainly for learning manufacturing skills. Later going on to form his own composite company and soon enough, Pagani Automobili S.P.A but at no point worked at Bertone, or on the Diablo.
 
legacyMACHINE
Ehhh, the Zonda and Huayra are completely separate in terms of design.

And Horacio Pagani actually worked for Lamborghini and helped produce the 25th anniversary Countach, in exchange mainly for learning manufacturing skills. Later going on to form his own composite company and soon enough, Pagani Automobili S.P.A but at no point worked at Bertone, or on the Diablo.
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You're right about Bertone, he never worked for them, but he was Lamborghini's chief engineer until '91, two years after the release of the Diablo. I'm sure he did something in those two years, and the Diablo was Lamborghini's only model at the time.

Furthermore, the Diablo and early Zondas have the same taillights.

Lamborghini_Diablo_VT_Orange_Rear_View_sized.jpg


pagani-zonda-c12-s-rear.jpg


Pac-man.

That part might be unrelated to Pagani, however, as the Diablo later got headlights from the Nissan 300ZX.
 
Leggy1
What is not amazing is how they apply creases and lines into the basic shape. It's their design language at the moment which is unfortunte. Current Lambos just lack the simple beauty of other supercars, like the 458 or 650S (or even previous Lambo models). I don't think they will age well either.

Of course it's just my opinion, it's exciting looking for most people.
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They don't just throw creases & lines into the shape for nothing. It's done for a reason; it builds into keeping the car aggressive yet functional.

As for how they age, Lamborghinis have never aged well beyond the Muira.
JMoney689
I think the Pagani Huayra is a prime example of a car that looks as exciting as a Lamborghini yet as elegant as a Ferrari. I wish Lamborghini had gone down Pagani's road when it came to styling, and they are related; the Zonda's design is based in part on early Diablo concepts that Horacio Pagani worked on when he was at Bertone. The Huayra is a refined Zonda, so if Horacio had kept designing for Lamborghini into the 21st century modern Lamborghinis would look much better.
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What exactly is the difference in cost between the 2 again? 2 Aventadors for the price of 1 Huayra?

As legacy already said, Horacio never designed for Lamborghini, so you're pretty far off the mark of thinking current Lamborghinis would look any different.
JMoney689
You're right about Bertone, he never worked for them, but he was Lamborghini's chief engineer until '91, two years after the release of the Diablo. I'm sure he did something in those two years, and the Diablo was Lamborghini's only model at the time.
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The most Horacio ever did was build the composites for the cars. Gandini & Chrysler's revision of his design are responsible for how it ended up looking because Horacio was already out the door of Lamborghini in 1987 when he bought an autoclave & founded Modena Design just a few years later.

The tail lamps don't really prove anything either. The S7 also has those tail lamps & all 3 supercars' originated from a Ford.
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McLaren
What exactly is the difference in cost between the 2 again? 2 Aventadors for the price of 1 Huayra?
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Cost is irrelevant, I'm talking specifically about the design of the body, not the high-tech active aero or the AMG V12 Biturbo or the interior made completely of expensive materials OR the fact that the Huayra is a very limited production vehicle. Those reasons are what makes it cost three times as much as an Aventador.

McLaren
As legacy already said, Horacio never designed for Lamborghini, so you're pretty far off the mark of thinking current Lamborghinis would look any different.

The most Horacio ever did was build the composites for the cars. Gandini & Chrysler's revision of his design are responsible for how it ended up looking because Horacio was already out the door of Lamborghini in 1987 when he bought an autoclave & founded Modena Design just a few years later.
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Erm...no. The 25th Anniversary Countach was designed by Pagani. It was obvious that he took inspiration from the Testarossa, and that's part of the reason the 25th Anniversay is less popular than other vesions of the Countach. It was sold for the 1988 model year. According to Wikipedia, he bought the autoclave in '87 and didn't split from Lamborghini until '91, which would have been several years AFTER initial development of the Diablo began, which could have been as early as the mid-eighties for all we know. Pagani definitely had something to do with the Diablo.
 
JMoney689
Cost is irrelevant, I'm talking specifically about the design of the body, not the high-tech active aero or the AMG V12 Biturbo or the interior made completely of expensive materials OR the fact that the Huayra is a very limited production vehicle. Those reasons are what makes it cost three times as much as an Aventador.
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Sorry, but yes it is. You can't design anything you want anymore without taking into consideration how much it will cost to engineer that design & meet regulations. This isn't the 1970's anymore & nothing you listed for reasons as to why the Huayra is more expensive are any different from the Aventador: It has active aero, it has a big in-house built V12, & is limited in production as well. The carbon fiber & choice to build nearly everything by hand or custom made is what makes Pagani much more expensive.

Erm...no. The 25th Anniversary Countach was designed by Pagani.
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Erm...no. It wasn't. 3-4 exterior changes doesn't mean he designed the car; it remained virtually the same body & shape it did for the previous 10 years.
It was obvious that he took inspiration from the Testarossa, and that's part of the reason the 25th Anniversay is less popular than other vesions of the Countach. It was sold for the 1988 model year. According to Wikipedia, he bought the autoclave in '87 and didn't split from Lamborghini until '91, which would have been several years AFTER initial development of the Diablo began, which could have been as early as the mid-eighties for all we know. Pagani definitely had something to do with the Diablo.
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Initial development of the Diablo began in 1985. Chrysler bought the company in 1987 & started their revisions starting with Gandini's design. Hard to think Horacio had any sort of influence in the design work if Chrysler wasn't happy with Gandini's idea. I already told you Modena Design helped build the composites for it.
 
@McLaren Yes of course I know that, but that is how it looks to me. I myself have come up with exterior designs for cars, which are also aerodynamically functional. Creases in the bodywork are there for styling only, they have little or no effect on aerodynamics, depending on where they are. The way lines are in current Lambo design just don't look good, really lacking sophistication in comparison to the flowing curves an more simple lines of rival manufacturers.
 
Leggy1
@McLaren Yes of course I know that, but that is how it looks to me. I myself have come up with exterior designs for cars, which are also aerodynamically functional. Creases in the bodywork are there for styling only, they have little or no effect on aerodynamics, depending on where they are. The way lines are in current Lambo design just don't look good, really lacking sophistication in comparison to the flowing curves an more simple lines of rival manufacturers.
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I'm pretty sure if you had read my posts, you'd find out why this is.
it builds into keeping the car aggressive yet functional.
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Those creases are there for a reason. They weren't designed to flow with the roof line for style points. Again: 8% more aerodynamic, 3% less drag, 50% more downforce without the use of working aero unlike the last 3 Lamborghinis.
huracan-lp640-4_gal09.jpg


The design language now is hexagonal.
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Your answer as to why there's no flowing curves. As Filippo Perini described it, he designed the car as the only desire to build the car with a single line; the front to the rear is connected by single, precise lines.

You're entitled to keep posting your opinion about whether or not the lines flow or if it lacks sophistication, but the thing is that it's ultimately just that.
 
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@McLaren I have read your posts. The lines in the bonnet panel are there to flow with the roof lines, they have no other purpose. No aerodynamic function. Creases are there for styling, the recessed parts around vents and intakes are there for aero of course. If you have spent time on wind tunnel software, experimenting with various parts of your car design, seeing which parts work with pressure and such, you would understand.

As for the flowing curves, I realise that their language is hexagons, it was an example, a comparison.
 
Creases on the sides of a car often serve no aerodynamic function. They're typically there just to strengthen the panel and serve as styling points.

Hood creases and roof creases, on the other hand, serve to keep the air flowing over the hood and roof, and to keep that captive air from spilling over the sides and causing turbulence by mixing with the air trying to go around the sides of the car. The exact placement can be amended for reasons of style, but the function still remains. This is why the Prius C has such a dramatically channeled roof. Aero.

Whether having the creases cut so dramatically deeply into the hood enhances the air dam effect or is simply for show, only Lamborghini knows.
 
Leggy1
@McLaren I have read your posts. The lines in the bonnet panel are there to flow with the roof lines, they have no other purpose. No aerodynamic function. Creases are there for styling, the recessed parts around vents and intakes are there for aero of course. If you have spent time on wind tunnel software, experimenting with various parts of your car design, seeing which parts work with pressure and such, you would understand.

As for the flowing curves, I realise that their language is hexagons, it was an example, a comparison.
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Perhaps you should understand it yourself before boasting about how you know how to design cars. :rolleyes:
niky
Creases on the sides of a car often serve no aerodynamic function. They're typically there just to strengthen the panel and serve as styling points.

Hood creases and roof creases, on the other hand, serve to keep the air flowing over the hood and roof, and to keep that captive air from spilling over the sides and causing turbulence by mixing with the air trying to go around the sides of the car. The exact placement can be amended for reasons of style, but the function still remains. This is why the Prius C has such a dramatically channeled roof. Aero.

Whether having the creases cut so dramatically deeply into the hood enhances the air dam effect or is simply for show, only Lamborghini knows.
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Unless you somehow work for the manufacturer, I'll continue to take the company's desire to make it known how much time was spent in wind tunnel testing over the Gallardo & that their improvements were done without moving aero as a hint that nothing on the car was done to be pretty.
 
Well, if nothing was done for reasons of style, then the car ought to look like an F40. :D

As it is, we've discussed the styling in detail earlier in the thread... the nods to earlier Lamborghini models, the cutesy way they adjusted the hood shutline to frame the logo, etcetera. I do agree that it's likely the creases serve some form of aerodynamic function, or at least have been optimized for it, but my eyes tell me that looks were definitely high on the list of desired outcomes for this model. :lol:

My only question is whether the extra carving out serves an extra function over the natural creasing of the hood to form that channel. I would think that yes, it does, but there's scant information available on how exactly that happens.
 
McLaren
Perhaps you should understand it yourself before boasting about how you know how to design cars. :rolleyes:


Unless you somehow work for the manufacturer, I'll continue to take the company's desire to make it known how much time was spent in wind tunnel testing over the Gallardo & that their improvements were done without moving aero as a hint that nothing on the car was done to be pretty.
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I understand it, but of course it isn't my job to design cars, sadly. I'm just saying it to show I have some experience in that area.

But because of how the bonnet creases are so deeply cut, it looks more for show than actual function.
 
Roll race: Huracan vs Porsche 997 Turbo S Mk2(uknown mods) vs GTR (far right that takes off, unknown mods)
 
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Leggy1
@McLaren I have read your posts. The lines in the bonnet panel are there to flow with the roof lines, they have no other purpose.
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Actually, they do have an engineered purpose. They're there to stiffen the bonnet panel. Without those creases, the large flat panel would be much more prone to bending and flexing, whether from setting something on top of it to the stress of closing and latching the lid to aerodynamic buffeting at speed. There are not many cars that have a truly flat panel anywhere on their body. If the panel doesn't have some sort of topography it will be structurally weak and some sort of crease will have to be added somewhere.

One of the flattest cars I can think of is the Ford Flex. While the creases in the doors do have style points - they're a bit of a retro touch - their real purpose is to stiffen the panel so it doesn't flop around like a drum.

2013+Ford+Flex+4.jpg


Yes, the Range Rover also has minimal shaping to its body. The horiztonal creases through the top and bottom of the door panel not only help lower the car to the ground visually but are just enough to stiffen the panel structurally. The rear door panel also has a bulbous fender bulge which helps out.

119555_2014_Land_Rover_Range_Rover_Gains_Supercharged_V6.jpg


The LR4 might have the flattest doors in the industry. But they're still fairly rigid when you press against them. You'll notice a similar fold to the Range Rover at the bottom of the door panel. But unlike the Range Rover, whose metal door panel goes up to the window and then stops, the LR4's metal panel actually wraps around the windows. You'll also notice that the windows are inset about an inch, creating a sharp and very strong fold in the metal door panel along the bottom of the windows and the back of the rear window.

419566fc99c8ffbcce7bfed22a25a59dx.jpg


Believe it or not, sometimes the styling of a car is engineered to serve a purpose that isn't aerodynamic. These days, aerodynamic engineering is subtle while most of what you actually see is very structural.

Nevertheless, the bonnet of the Huracan does serve an aerodynamic purpose as you can see from @McLaren photo. The panel has a subtle bowl shape created by those creases which helps channel air up and over the center of the broad windshield (which has the effect of brushing air to the sides, not over the top) to meet the much more obvious bowl on the top of the rood which channels air to the center of the rear spoiler.

If my aviation-related aero learnings have anything to say about automotive applications, it's that air doesn't actually go where you think it will and getting air to flow over the top of a car is more difficult than you'd think. There are many sports cars today which either have channels above the normal-width greenhouses (Corvette, Viper, BRZ, Ferrari coupes), greenhouses which are skinny to channel air around them (think LaFerrari, P1), or a combination of both.
 
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JMoney689
Furthermore, the Diablo and early Zondas have the same taillights.

Pac-man.

That part might be unrelated to Pagani, however, as the Diablo later got headlights from the Nissan 300ZX.
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Lights are by Hella. From their tractors and agricultural vehicle brochure.
 

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