Large day one patch!

  • Thread starter Spagetti69
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eSZee
I have a proper internet connection but the actual speeds my PS3 gets even though it's mere feet from the router, are pathetic.


Source, please because I've heard otherwise.
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If you buy an xbox one all the dRM bull crap ships with the console, to disable it you HAVE TO HAVE ONLINE FOR A SYSTEM UPDATE
 
Tenacious D
I tell you what, you both are assuming an awful lot. One, what GT6 is going to be. Two, how First Party companies work in SONY. And I sincerely doubt you know anything I don't. I also doubt that either of you have run a business, so any assumptions by either of you on how easy it is to just grab employees and insert them in that already running machine known as a business is not worth much. Especially in an environment now as sensitive and secretive as the one surrounding Gran Turismo.
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I assume nothing other than what I know which is, given adequate resources entrepeneurs can usually make anything happen if the willpower and commitment is there to do it. I believe the resources are there for PD to make better sounds for example, but the commitment is not. I'm sure they have their reasons whatever they may be, but you'll never convince me that if they wanted it done in 6 months it cannot get done.

I've been self-employed my entire life, other than a brief 4 years of insanity. I went into that same business for myself after that 4 year span and stole away the two best employees my former employer had in this end of the province so I am quite familiar with that of which I speak.
 
Johnnypenso
...I am quite familiar with that of which I speak.
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I still don't think you do. Obviously, you considered being an employee "madness," which I can concur as an obscure, puny junior federal bureaucrat in Obama's ridiculous and inept administration, fortunately far enough down the foodchain that I'm far away from Washington. But we still eat the BS daily.

Polyphony Digital isn't a group of freewheeling entrepeneurs, they're essentially owned by SONY. Kaz has the freedom to do whatever he wants within reason, but even as a VP of SCEJ I believe, SONY still has a collar around his neck and calls the ultimate shots.

I doubt that you've programmed a piano sound. Not done all the work to sample each and every note at at least three velocity strikes, and gone to the painstaking detail to make sure that the hammer hits the strings at the same impulse of force, and not only that but produces the same timbre as the adjacent strings. Then to take those samples and produce loops which sound as if the string is sustaining with infinite resonance. Then take those looped samples and assign them to the proper keyboard notes in the correct velocity range, and come up with an envelope which makes this infinite sustain sample decay the way an actual piano does, and make it decay quicker up the scale while still sounding natural and decaying at the correct rate. Assign filters to these samples and make them darken the sound with even more envelopes in a way that doesn't make it sound like there's a filter there at all. Then have a classical pianist come play your virtual instrument and tell you it's all wrong and to start over.

I never even went that far. I programmed pianos using all the sampling and assigning done for me, the really hard work. I just fussed with the envelopes, filters and dynamic ranges, and it's a pain in the butt. Even more, this piano doesn't have to fight with physics modeling of a bunch of other pianos, and A.I. routines, and graphic rendering, and whatever else would be involved in a piano based video game.

Look, even Turn 10, FOUR HUNDRED PEOPLE strong, with a MUCH larger audio design team supposedly, couldn't accomplish what you want in a box with similar horsepower in Forza 4. They couldn't get all the cars in a race to have the right sounds, or even the same quality sounds. They couldn't even get stock cars to sound right, though that was evidently by misguided design. Some cars even sound exactly the same from all four driver views.

This is the one game which you really can compare to GT5, and they couldn't do it.

Quick edit because I realized this is the Day One Patch thread, but all that stuff is still quite apropos to the subject. No one has all their work done at release anymore. Almost every game I've bought since 2007 has needed an update when I bought the game. Some of them were surprisingly large. The last three Forzas were updated periodically because of physics flaws and exploits in a supposedly near perfect game. Are developers doing a bazillion things at once to get their games ready by a wrist slitting deadline lazy or dumb or lazy? Have you tried it?

I don't think they are. You can think whatever you want, but in my not not so humble opinion, I think your world and your experience is a universe away from theirs. No, I don't think you're familiar with this at all, or know squat about it.
 
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Tenacious D
...wall of text....
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Speaking of entrepeneurs...don't consider that as a career route. You are the king of "can't be done", "no one else can do it either", "they don't have enough staff", "they aren't in control", "they are working on it just keep waiting" etc. etc. etc. All things a self employed person cannot afford to allow to get into his/her head. You sir, are the King of Excuses.
 
Ya know Johnny, maybe you're right. I had to run off and save myself from starvation, and thinking about my post in the process, I wasn't even sure I was addressing your points because you have made so many contentions in this and the sound thread.

So let me sum up by saying, we can be armchair quarterbacks all we want, but I doubt you'd take my advice on what to do with your business anymore than Kaz would some unknowns who may or may not be lying through their teeth about everything.

I wouldn't take it. You wouldn't take it. But supposedly Kaz should. Whatever. Have a nice TGS. ;)
 
Tenacious D
I wouldn't take it. You wouldn't take it. But supposedly Kaz should. Whatever. Have a nice TGS. ;)
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So we've moved from "PD does what Sony tell them so it doesn't matter what we think" to "Kaz wouldn't take our advice, so why bother".

Do you not see how you're working around all the variants of "why don't you guys just shut up"?
 
Well, I suppose I've said, "Free advice on the intranets is worth about the asking price for the most part" as many ways as I can think of. I know it's doubtful anyone will consider the point that they have no clue what's really going on at PD and SONY, so advise away. Maybe someone there will mutter, "Now why didn't we think of that?" ;)
 
Tenacious D
Well, I suppose I've said, "Free advice on the intranets is worth about the asking price for the most part" as many ways as I can think of. I know it's doubtful anyone will consider the point that they have no clue what's really going on at PD and SONY, so advise away. Maybe someone there will mutter, "Now why didn't we think of that?" ;)
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Frankly, that's mostly what the internet is for. The signal to noise ratio is pretty low, but the advantage is that someone somewhere has probably come up with a good idea to solve your problem, if you can find it.

Obviously, everyone thinks their own ideas are the best. But you take the rough with the smooth, and I don't think anybody wins by being told "you're just as well not opening your mouth".
 
Johnnypenso
Actually the point Fgame made was that Microsoft should have made the changes in the system before the resulting loss of sales, when it first began as a public outcry. The same type of warning is going on here on GTP concerning GT6 but in a much slower and smaller way. Many have already suggested they will adopt a "wait and see" attitude towards GT6 after buying 1-5 on day 1, and others are downright refusing to buy it if improvements are not made in certain areas. Waiting until there is a drop in sales is not the best time to make changes, before the drop is.
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I understand the correlation, but the two are not even in the same Galaxy.
After the fact, it mattered little what MS did.
You can't remove the hole in your foot after you have shot yourself.
The damage is done.
Obviously, treatment needs to be administered as quickly as possible, but it is strictly an exercise in damage control.
The hole is going to be there for a while.

The overwhelmingly obvious point is: "Don't shoot yourself in the foot to start with".
MS apparently has a foot fetish, and is incapable of resisting the opportunity to do so.

As I've pointed out before, GT6 being on PS3 is positioned as sort of "the only big game left in the current console town".
An economic favorite by default.
I don't believe anything, or lack of, ranted about here at GTP, will have much of an effect on sales.

I won't be buying a new console anytime in the near future.
After the MS incident, the XB1 isn't an option, even if I was.
Likewise, at this point I'm not inclined to buy or support anything on the 360.

So where does that leave me and a huge number of other gamers as well?
 
SuperCobraJet
So where does that leave me and a huge number of other gamers as well?
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For whatever reasons gamers have high expectations.
We expect to have Gran Turismo and want it to be good.
But if you compare gaming to the film industry you can see how lucky we are already.
Say you love Star Wars, you watch the Return of the Jedi and then there is no more films, then many years later. Love or hate them the next 3 films are made. Then that is the apparent end of it, your life will have no more Star Wars in it. But then, again, many years later Disney buys rights and will make a load more films.

So, as bad as it sounds. Waiting perhaps 5-10 years for a GT game that fits what you want is a lot better than never having it.
And in the mean time you just have to forget about it, and hope something else amazing turns up that is new.

Or principles can be dropped and you pay to see Phantom Menace/play GT6 and hope the public criticism has an effect.
 
Fgame
For whatever reasons gamers have high expectations.
We expect to have Gran Turismo and want it to be good.
But if you compare gaming to the film industry you can see how lucky we are already.
Say you love Star Wars, you watch the Return of the Jedi and then there is no more films, then many years later. Love or hate them the next 3 films are made. Then that is the apparent end of it, your life will have no more Star Wars in it. But then, again, many years later Disney buys rights and will make a load more films.

So, as bad as it sounds. Waiting perhaps 5-10 years for a GT game that fits what you want is a lot better than never having it.
And in the mean time you just have to forget about it, and hope something else amazing turns up that is new.

Or principles can be dropped and you pay to see Phantom Menace/play GT6 and hope the public criticism has an effect.
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Hopefully, we will only have to wait until Dec. 6th. :)

My point is, under those circumstances, I will probably end up buying GT6 no matter whats in it, or isn't in it.
I believe many PS3 owners will as well.
Accordingly, even if the game is lousy,(God knows I hope it isn't) it will likely sell more copies than GT5 did.
 
SuperCobraJet
Hopefully, we will only have to wait until Dec. 6th. :)

My point is, under those circumstances, I will probably end up buying GT6 no matter whats in it, or isn't in it.
I believe many PS3 owners will as well.
Accordingly, even if the game is lousy,(God knows I hope it isn't) it will likely sell more copies than GT5 did.
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Well the good thing about GT5 being worse than GT4 and GT3 IMO (I hate to say that) is that things can only go up from here.

It'd be hard to be worse than GT1 and GT2, but knowing PD... :sly:
 
Since the release day is so near, shall we start taking bets at exactly HOW large this patch will be?
My Chips are on the table, 1.7GiB
 
Hyland
I found the part below interesting as well.

Undecided whether I should like the idea or dislike it.

Edit : As for the planned day one patch, I really feel sorry for those who (for reasons) don't have a proper internet connection or don't have any at all. GT5's enormous updates were bad enough and I'm on a 100/10 connection.
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Well people who aren't on the internet today are surely a minority?
 
ProjectWHaT
Do we even know what's coming in the patch?
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http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-09-18-gran-turismo-6-will-have-a-large-day-one-patch
"It's the same every time," said Yamauchi. "Everything's very tight. It's an incredibly tight schedule. As to being able to include everything we want to on day one, we probably won't be able to. I think for the 12 months following the release we'll continue to update the software. Because in Gran Turismo 6 we're preparing a lot of different things we haven't even touched on yet."

It's likely that some of the online will also be updated on day one. "I can be almost certain that there'll be a day one patch applied," said Yamauchi. "The online features are already working - we'll be updating it with a day one patch, and we're still overflowing with stuff we'd like to do. So I think the day one patch will be a fairly large patch."
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First thing I'll do is skip the update to see if any events get added or anything like that.
 
Spagetti69
From eurogamer.

"It's the same every time," said Yamauchi. "Everything's very tight. It's an incredibly tight schedule. As to being able to include everything we want to on day one, we probably won't be able to. I think for the 12 months following the release we'll continue to update the software. Because in Gran Turismo 6 we're preparing a lot of different things we haven't even touched on yet."
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So basically there will be no GT7 for the year. Which is all okay and dandy. But one day patches/updates are fairly common among most games now.
 
Ironically, the way things are today with updates might work for pd as they are never done, just a constant dev cycle... And they have proven their intentions to support their products by way of GT 5... It's constantly patched.

Other developers just use updating as a crutch and excuse, but pd do seem to be making the most of it.

That being said, they do need a complete enough product for print and to satisfy those not online.
 
Lawndart
Ironically, the way things are today with updates might work for pd as they are never done, just a constant dev cycle... And they have proven their intentions to support their products by way of GT 5... It's constantly patched.

Other developers just use updating as a crutch and excuse, but pd do seem to be making the most of it.

That being said, they do need a complete enough product for print and to satisfy those not online.
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Developers purposely ignore the vast minority, unless there are a lot of complaints.
 
sk8er913
Developers purposely ignore the vast minority, unless there are a lot of complaints.
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We call this the "vocal minority" and we are aware they represent many of the unspoken majority.

The top 3-5 nosy items are always considered as we know its an interest factor x1000.

But PD? They beat to their own drum and this is because they aren't gamers, so they follow and old school mantra that's more like; "if we like it so will everyone else..." This is how the entire industry was up to the late 90's... And it's well observed the Japanese game industry are 20 years in the past, and they admit this, knowing none of their games have changed much... Just minor refinements and "changes" are more like redone or expanded features than whole new or innovative ones.

There are hundreds of well written arrivals about it. But pd are particularly obvious in not really being gamers...
 
Lawndart
We call this the "vocal minority" and we are aware they represent many of the unspoken majority.

The top 3-5 nosy items are always considered as we know its an interest factor x1000.

But PD? They beat to their own drum and this is because they aren't gamers, so they follow and old school mantra that's more like; "if we like it so will everyone else..." This is how the entire industry was up to the late 90's... And it's well observed the Japanese game industry are 20 years in the past, and they admit this, knowing none of their games have changed much... Just minor refinements and "changes" are more like redone or expanded features than whole new or innovative ones.

There are hundreds of well written arrivals about it. But pd are particularly obvious in not really being gamers...
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I meant, a very small percentage of people do not have internet access, but then have a PS3 and GT6. Developers see things like this, and they decide to ignore the small percentage of people that will be unhappy with this. because it makes the larger percentage happy. I know this, because I work in a studio, and if there's a bug that only affects 5% of users, we will ignore it, and continue on making the 95% even happier.. The best example is "This device is too old, we will let it build the program to it's software too, but that doesn't mean it will work as it should and we probably wont fix it if it breaks, unless we get many complaints."
 
sk8er913
I meant, a very small percentage of people do not have internet access, but then have a PS3 and GT6. Developers see things like this, and they decide to ignore the small percentage of people that will be unhappy with this. because it makes the larger percentage happy. I know this, because I work in a studio, and if there's a bug that only affects 5% of users, we will ignore it, and continue on making the 95% even happier.. The best example is "This device is too old, we will let it build the program to it's software too, but that doesn't mean it will work as it should and we probably wont fix it if it breaks, unless we get many complaints."
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That's a very common situation with hardware devices and browsers, as I mention (maybe in another thread, can't keep them straight) software evolves as does hardware but consoles have been a mainstay for 8 years... So its only software. The "ignore" would be feature based in this instance.

And your logic applies. There is only so much that can be done, then there are priorities.
 
Lawndart
That's a very common situation with hardware devices and browsers, as I mention (maybe in another thread, can't keep them straight) software evolves as does hardware but consoles have been a mainstay for 8 years... So its only software. The "ignore" would be feature based in this instance.

And your logic applies. There is only so much that can be done, then there are priorities.
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For Androids, if its 3 years old we don't support it, really. :P There is new hardware, the expansion of internet, day one patch is now a reasonable way to finish the game and release it 2 weeks early.
 

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