Le Mans 2010: LMP1 Will Be Closed-Prototypes Only (Updated)

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dougiemeats

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According to LMSR.net:
The Automobile Club d'Ouest (ACO), organizers of the 24 Hours of Le Mans, has announced the extinction of the "roadster" prototypes that have dominated the race in the past few years as, from 2010 onwards, only coupes will be allowed to compete in the event's top class, LMP1.
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To make it clear, we will still see open-prototypes in the LMP2 class. The reason for the decision is because the ACO wants people to identify with the cars in the top class. Closed-prototypes have a closer resemblance to their road-going counterparts than open-prototypes. However, the open cars have grown on me and it will be sad to see them eventually phased-out. I think in the long run, this may be the right decision, and I am sure we will see some beautiful cars on the barricaded roads of Le Mans by 2010.

- Peugeot 908 to debut next year: Closed or open?
- How about the Audi R10's proposed 10-year lifespan?
- Will Audi build a new car or transform their Le Mans monster into a closed-prototype?
- Will someone finally show interest in the Riley prototype? (Link)
- Epsilon Euskadi: http://www.epsiloneuskadi.com/galery/index.htm
- Will Porsche build an LMP1?
- Will this attract more manufacturers or will they show less interest in the top class? (rephrase: will they focus on LMP2?)
- And finally; Good decision or bad decision?

Update:

It seems that the ACO has reversed their decision. Please see post #82 by Earth for more details.
 
I like the idea. Putting a roof on an R10 would improve structural rigidity. If they allow these cars to run the big tires as well, they'll be outrageously quick, THE WAY IT SHOULD BE! It'll be interesting how the rules pan out and how all the above will turn out for that matter (Porsche, Audi = which class? etc.) I'm already getting excited. I'll be interested to see how this all works. Just so long as we do have competitive interesting open prototypes and the slower GT vehicles, I'll be good. (i.e. no seperation of classes, or deletion of classes as that is what hurt sports car racing in the late '80's all the way up to the Prototype, GTS, GT classes and the advent of ALMS in the late '90's.)

m.piedgros
 
Whoa, deja vu!

Well not quite. This kind of reminds me of the abolition of the Group B and the Stillborn Group S rally car categories in the late 80s (not that I really remember them as I was born the day Toivonen died) and replacing them with Group A.

I guess that's where the similarities end since the open-cockpit racers are still being allowed and the newer LMP1 class is by no means tame or sedate. Plus, they'll still look great. They always do, even the ugly ones.

The R10's decade-long projected lifespan will be easy to circumvent if they just bolt a roof on (though actually do it professionally as opposed to going to Don's Dodgy Repairs). Might require a slight re-design of the chassis, but not much else. Would probably need a new name as well. I daresay we'd get the R10-C (coupe) and R10-O (open) or something similar.

I've not seen the Riley prototype, so I can't comment on it.

I believe Porsche's last Le Mans victory was in a coupe, so I daresay they'll be interested again.

Hopefully we'll see teams entering both LMP1 and LMP2 category entries, though the FIA might need to create an LMP3 (unless it exists) for the current LMP2/privateer teams (I know Pescarolo is a private team, but they probably get works support).
 
That's going to be a disadvantage for most sportscar racing events. I only need to mention one word to mention why it is a disadvantage- weather. I hear about closed-top cars getting rain water from the skies and into the cars. Hot days only boost up the heat inside. I actually think LMP2 should have closed tops while the badasses in LMP1 can keep their open-top deal. The extra canopy may add a little more weight to the cars since the LMP2's are usually much lighter.

I'm actually sort of torn on this issue. My best reaction is that I think LMP2 should get them. Open-top cars have always been the cars to beat. Last closed-top car to win Le Mans was Bentley three years ago. And Porsche won back in 1998 with their Porsche 911 GT1. They actually won two-striaght with the 1998 victory because they won in 1997 with a prototype. I want to say that LMP2's should get the closed-top deal, but I'm really torn. It's a tough call.
 
Last I heard Porsche is doing very well in sales and income, I don't see how producing a winnable LMP1 is too much for them.

I like the new regulations.
 
Well, Porsche do have a LMP2 car, wich will probably run Le Mans next year, so I don´t think they are very interested in builing a LMP1.

Next years LMP2 could actually be more interesting than LMP1, since both Porsche and Acura(!) are in, and Radical will be strong too!
 
VIPERGTSR01
Last I heard Porsche is doing very well in sales and income, I don't see how producing a winnable LMP1 is too much for them.
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Yes, they are doing very well. But Porsche is also an incorporated company. They have to justify spendings.
 
from what I have heard, its still being disgusted amongst the Manufacterers. however, according to speedtv, all series that run under the ACO rules will also have to have closed-top prototypes, including the American Le Mans Series.
 
This is a real pickel,d:censored: if you do and d:censored: if you don't.Maybe they should try it in LMP2 as John said before,but one thing comes to my mind.......Daytona Prototype.I hopr the do a better job of car design than this.
 
Radio Le Mans answered my E-Mail! Radio Le Mans answered my E-Mail! But unfortunately, I didn't get too much of an answer because they said that there probably wouldn't be enough time. Reason to be happy that Houston's represented over Radio Le Mans, or reason to be sad that I didn't have any "expert" analysis on this issue? I mentioned the closed-top LMP1s and the air conditioning issue in my E-mail to Radio Le Mans. Just shocked me that I heard over RLM "John Marine of Houston, Texas asks..." Felt like a cheery school girl when I heard my name and hometown mentioned.
 
John, was this during Radio Le Mans on Speed TV? If so, I will watch my tape and listen for it 👍 (I fell asleep during the early morning coverage, had to work all night).

After thinking the issue through, I think I will like seeing prototypes with roofs. From what I have been reading, the Peugeot will have a roof next year. My only question now is the R10. New car in 2010, or same car but modified with a roof? My guess it the same R10 w/ a roof.
 
Yes, it was through the Radio Le Mans three-hour takeover of Speed Channel coverage (solid job, boys!). I wasn't able to watch the race after 4:30 AM CDT since that's when storms began to kick up. 2007 - better weather please! Come on now, player!

Oh, and check out my latest post about my views of Le Mans 2006.
 
-Peugeot 908 to debut next year: Closed or open?

It will be closed

-How about the Audi R10's proposed 10-year lifespan?

They'll put a roof on it

-Will Audi build a new car or transform their Le Mans monster into a closed-prototype?

They won't build a new car, they'll just bolt a top on the current one.

-Will someone finally show interest in the Riley prototype? (I'll find a link later)
- http://www.epsiloneuskadi.com/galery/index.htm

I hope so...the thing looks very sleek

-Will Porsche build an LMP1?

No because if they do go LMP1 they will just bolt a LMP1 engine into their current LMP2 car. They designed it with room for one

-Will this attract more manufacturers or will they show less interest in the top class? (rephrase: will they focus on LMP2?)

I don't think it will affect their choice

-And finally; Good decision or bad decision?

Good decision because:

- Closed cockpit cars look better on average

- A/C is now available for closed cars

- It will seperate the LMP2 and LMP1 cars better visually

- Last but not least closed cockpit cars are safer
 
NOTE: Daytona Prototypes aren't meant to be radical fast Le Mans style prototypes. They're designed to be cost effective, bullet-proof, cheap and mostly, safe, simple cars. They are designed to be tall to increase drag, promote tight racing, and slow speeds for safety.

If they turned the LM P1 class into closed top prototypes I'd like to see the LM P2 class fill up with cars of similar performance to the P1's so we could get a bit of an class rivalry. Kind of like the Bentley Speed 8 vs. Audi R8 ("LM GTP" as it was badged, vs. LM P1 (or was it 900?) Anyway, you get the point.

m.piedgros

Yes, I realize cost-effective and cheap could be considered the same, but for the purpose of the above they aren't.
 
well, if they are doing this, then here is my Logical Suggestion:
LMP1 would have its name change to GTP and LMP2 would just be LMP. that would make more since in my opinion.
 
Earth
-Will someone finally show interest in the Riley prototype? (I'll find a link later)
- http://www.epsiloneuskadi.com/galery/index.htm

I hope so...the thing looks very sleek
Click to expand...

My post was a bit misleading. The link I provided is of the Epsilon Euskadi. I could not find a link to the closed Riley prototype (computer renders emerged last year, I'm sure some members here have seen them). 👍

Edit: Found a link http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=187678&FS=LEMANS

Doesn't look as good as the render of the Lola, IMHO.

Here is Lola's proposal of what their prototype will look like in closed form.


Personally, I like the way it looks. It still has the characteristics of a Lola. I can't wait until Dyson Racing gets their hands on a pair of these.

Edit: Sorry for the double post - Merged them for you - daan
 
I have a feeling the 908 will use the V12 from the 907 Concept.
 
Top-end 'sports prototype' class cars have as much history, if not more so, as closed top racers. GT40 - 917 - 956/962 - Bentley Speed 8 etc etc.

They keep changing the rules every decade or so just to keep manufacturer interest.
 
How will this affect the aerodynamics of the cars. I would have thought that a roof on the car would lower its drag coefficient.
 
dougiemeats
Here is Lola's proposal of what their prototype will look like in closed form.
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/645/b0610coupef5tr.jpg

Personally, I like the way it looks. It still has the characteristics of a Lola. I can't wait until Dyson Racing gets their hands on a pair of these.
Click to expand...

That looks very good.

DQuaN
How will this affect the aerodynamics of the cars. I would have thought that a roof on the car would lower its drag coefficient.
Click to expand...

Maybe they will cut better through the air, but I think the added area would discount some of that, or maybe even by worse off all together.
 
Hey, i like the neuvoax (that ain't spelled right) Group C concept.

Nissan R010C anyone?
 
Not that this is related and not that it is a smart question, but I wonder if that two-seat look was a precursor to this closed-top LMP1 deal. Like how some of you talked about how the rigidity of prototypes had to be able to support two people if it were designed for two people. What was the real motivation behind this closed-top deal? It seems like the introduction to this thread talks about having these closed-top cars as a way of identifying the highest class of race cars. If this is just about distinguishing LMP2s from LMP1s, then this is probably one way of geting around it. I've ALWAYS seen LMP1 as being the very best, so they won't have to put up with some of the stuff GT cars don't have to deal with such as hot temperatures and having rain probably get into the car in wet races.

This switch may show us some brand new designs. Some may even be as outlandish as the bigtime Stage 4 cars in "Ridge Racer Type 4."
 
ROAD_DOGG33J
Maybe they will cut better through the air, but I think the added area would discount some of that, or maybe even by worse off all together.
Click to expand...

A closed roof racer will be more aerodynamic than an open top one - the drag caused by the open cockpit, the roll hoops and the driver's helmet is much more than a nice smooth, curved screen.
 
TheCracker
A closed roof racer will be more aerodynamic than an open top one - the drag caused by the open cockpit, the roll hoops and the driver's helmet is much more than a nice smooth, curved screen.
Click to expand...

Do you know what the effect of those little screens they have before the cockpit is?
 
ROAD_DOGG33J
Do you know what the effect of those little screens they have before the cockpit is?
Click to expand...

Sure they help matters, but have you seen how dirty the top of a driver's racesuit and helmet are after a stint? - they arn't going to get that grimey without direct contact with airflow.
 
I like this idea of Closed Prototype Racing, it'll add variety to the racing.

But I have one concern: Since these cars will be racing, and will have less drag, and go faster, will we see more dangerous crashes involving aerodynamics, like the Mercedes CLR's flip? :confused: I hope that doesn't happen. (Meredes-Benz never raced again at Le Mans again after that incident. Hope to see them at Le Mans in the future...)
 
Michael-GT
I like this idea of Closed Prototype Racing, it'll add variety to the racing.

But I have one concern: Since these cars will be racing, and will have less drag, and go faster, will we see more dangerous crashes involving aerodynamics, like the Mercedes CLR's flip? :confused: I hope that doesn't happen. (Meredes-Benz never raced again at Le Mans again after that incident. Hope to see them at Le Mans in the future...)
Click to expand...

I think the teams should be able to prevent crashes like that with the knowledge of what caused the CLR flip. Plus they lowered the hills, so it's less likely.
 

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