Like the Wind

[JohnBM01]

GTPlanet, I don't know about you, but if you can't have rain, why not have windy days/nights? I can recall some NASCAR race or practice earlier this year (namely Daytona), and the wind during this race was blowing pretty hard while the cars were out there. I think that if GT pays a little more attention to wind and wind resistance, it may affect racing pretty much. So if the wind blows in a certain direction all race long, it will probably help when going away from the wind direction. When into the wind's direction, cars will mostly take a pounding as they go in high speeds.

Do you think GT4 should have some variations in wind? It may bring up new strategy and challenges newbies to set their cars up. If you ask me, the majority of car settings I've changed were suspension setups, namely with Stabilizers, Toe, and even ride height (this prompted me to leave ride height the way it is because cars handled beautifully at the expense of quicker tire wear). So, speak out.

 

[k2racer]

I do like some of the topics you brought up, but

it seems you just want to start a new thread every day........

what's next?

do not mistake me, respect for the good new threads from you

 

[toler]

sorry but i don´t like the idea. i´m at GT freak ever since the first one came out back in the days. i consider myself to be quite a good driver as i´m usually within 2-5 seconds of the times posted over the various boards/db´s on the web, but i SUCK at setting my cars up. if i had to take in account even more parameters i might as well hire my own race engineers to do that for me.
no wind for me!

 

[Eagle]

Wind's one of those things that's a really nice concept to include in a game, but unless you do something lame like just allocating a block of track as having something that impacts the aerodynamics and subsequently numerous other things, it's an absolute ***** to implement. There's no way you can do it remotely realistically atm.

 

[35mm]

That title gave me the creeps!!

Now I'll be having nightmares about the Test Course...

 

[j8mie]

It's a really nice idea, but I think it would piss too many people off. With a wet track or degarding tyres you know whats going on, you can see/feel things slowly getting worse/better, so you change your driving to suit. But if you put in a invisible force, I think that's taking it too far. One minute they are speeding along and for no reason (or so it would appear) they would be pushed off course, and quite possibly have to take take avoiding action so as to not hit a wall or other car. And because of that invisble force, they might lose a race. Imagine how miffed you'd be after 25 laps of a endurance race only to lose it within sight of the flag because the wind (which you couldn't see) caught you out.

However it is a really nice idea....in theory at least.

Cheers

Jamie

 

[Ev0]

sorry but i don´t like the idea. i´m at GT freak ever since the first one came out back in the days. i consider myself to be quite a good driver as i´m usually within 2-5 seconds of the times posted over the various boards/db´s on the web, but i SUCK at setting my cars up. if i had to take in account even more parameters i might as well hire my own race engineers to do that for me.
no wind for me!

I totally agree. I can drive very fast, but aside from gear ratios and downforce settings, I can't setup a car if my life depended on it! What would help is a guide in the manual on what each individual setting does to the car.

 

[Dr. Bojangles]

yeah i cant set up a car for the life of me, but normally i just mess around with it until i think it feels a bit better, but most of the time i probly mess the car up and i just dont want to admit it so i drive the thing better to make up for it.

 

[Eagle]

...Do you guys even read the scrolling text on each part when you go to change it? It doesn't just explain what that part and subsequent setting does, it even gives you a recommendation on how to tune the thing. Read.

You're all overestimating how much wind would affect the car too. You're not about to be blown violently off course, and I honestly doubt that the wind would be variable. You'd just have a section of track with a slightly different grip level depending on where the 'wind' was coming from. More grip could simulate head on wind, slowing the car slightly. Sidewinds? I don't know how you're supposed to simulate being buffeted by wind from the side in anything but a turn. Most cars don't have sufficient aerodynamics to be overtly affected by wind, only things like a Formula 1 car would feel a significant impact in anything short of a very strong gust. You don't know how to setup the car? Well it's time to learn, because balance is everything.

You get blown off course and lose a race on the final lap because of it... I'm wondering if I should wait for the pro-damage crowd to emerge from the shadows and chant about how that's realism for you. If you lose a race because of wind though... Well... Back to the beginner league for someone...

 

[toler]

you must be excellent at setting cars up then and probably even a real top notch driver eagle.
i´d really like to race you come GT4, i couldn´t find any times of yours in the races on this board......

 

[Andrew R]

Its a nice idea but I really dont see that happening in GT4. Like a lot of your threads.

I REALLY need to learn to set up a car. All I do is lower it.

 

[Eagle]

I haven't taken part in any of the weeklies yet because in all honesty I don't know where to sign up, except for TORC I haven't seen anything being hosted. I never professed to be great at the game or setting up the car, but I read the information in front of me and I know what I've read about Formula 1 and other types of racing. The only time I have entered anywhere is over on GT3Times.com for Grand Valley Speedway, I'm 22nd. I'll cheerfully race you come GT4, here's hoping the lag to Germany isn't that terrible

 

[toler]

Try this:
http://db.granturismo.de
It´s a quite competetive community over there

 

[Robin]

I think it would be quite a good idea to have more realistic physics in the game such as wind. Seeing as PD lack some weather elements it would be a great if they had even a touch of environmental effects. Another thing I was thinking they could do is have the same track selectable for different times of the day.....in some other racing games it was an option to race at dawn, midday and dusk. It would be like having the variation between ss-5 and ss-5 wet in GT4 I thought the water on the track looked super realistic! PD sould do some other tracks like that!

Oh and another thing.......I thought i'd ask here instead of starting a new thread and getting shouted at!!!......Its kinda to do with the enviromnetal effects......I was wondering why PD doesnt record BACKGROUND NOISE for each of its tracks. If you notice when u race in New York is sounds very oddly silent even when racing......like a ghost town. In the GTA's they had a 20 minute soundtrack for just background noise.....like wind, people talking and traffic in the distance. Why cant PD make New York, Hong Kong etc sound real! where are the traffic horns! the people shouting the noise of roadworks!! stuff like that wouldnt be hard to put into the game.....it would just be another sound file overlapped over the in game music and add hugely to the realism

WHAT DO YOU THINK? 👍 👎

 

[Robin]

Actually.......do u think this proposal is worth starting its own thread?

 

[j8mie]

...You're all overestimating how much wind would affect the car too. You're not about to be blown violently off course, and I honestly doubt that the wind would be variable. You'd just have a section of track with a slightly different grip level depending on where the 'wind' was coming from. More grip could simulate head on wind, slowing the car slightly. Sidewinds? I don't know how you're supposed to simulate being buffeted by wind from the side in anything but a turn. Most cars don't have sufficient aerodynamics to be overtly affected by wind, only things like a Formula 1 car would feel a significant impact in anything short of a very strong gust. You don't know how to setup the car? Well it's time to learn, because balance is everything.

You get blown off course and lose a race on the final lap because of it... I'm wondering if I should wait for the pro-damage crowd to emerge from the shadows and chant about how that's realism for you. If you lose a race because of wind though... Well... Back to the beginner league for someone...

Not being funny, but only the other week during the Spainish F1 GP was Jenson Button blown off course by a gust of wind during qualifiying. If that had not happened he would have easily taken pole position, and quite possibly gone on to won the race. I've seen NASCAR drivers complain about the strong winds on some oval courses, and there are some older race course here in England that have reputations for being very windy. So wind can very easily ruin your race and even your whole race w/end.

Cheers

Jamie

 

[Eagle]

Which is why I stipulated that F1 cars are practically the only ones significantly affected, I well remember Button's incident. The rest is all subjective though

Ovals have a tendency to be affected by wind quite largely as well because of the nature of their design and also the racing that takes place on them, because there's so few other variations what variations there are are greatly magnified, and wind is an example. It does generally have to be pretty damn windy to have that great an impact. I'd say a gust of anything under 60kph against your average sedan wouldn't do a lot, which is what I was getting at. Most of the time you're not going to be significantly impacted by it.

I love robin's idea... It's something almost inanely simple and yet it would add a great deal to the atmosphere. Perhaps the game really is designed to be run with music, but I can remember even in NFS2, the sounds of the traffic or the ocean or the bells in the mountains along with the winds, it was pretty cool.

Edit: BTW toler, one of the other things is I don't have an Xport/Sharkport/whatever, so I can't transfer replays to prove my times.

 

[pimp racer]

GTPlanet, I don't know about you, but if you can't have rain, why not have windy days/nights? I can recall some NASCAR race or practice earlier this year (namely Daytona), and the wind during this race was blowing pretty hard while the cars were out there. I think that if GT pays a little more attention to wind and wind resistance, it may affect racing pretty much. So if the wind blows in a certain direction all race long, it will probably help when going away from the wind direction. When into the wind's direction, cars will mostly take a pounding as they go in high speeds.

Do you think GT4 should have some variations in wind? It may bring up new strategy and challenges newbies to set their cars up. If you ask me, the majority of car settings I've changed were suspension setups, namely with Stabilizers, Toe, and even ride height (this prompted me to leave ride height the way it is because cars handled beautifully at the expense of quicker tire wear). So, speak out.

I agree as long as its gonna make the game more harder then it should be there.

 

[Andrew R]

I think the background noises is a good idea. I would love to see, midway through a race, it starts pouring with rain and because your on racing slicks, you would have to go in to the pits for wet weather tires or you could stay out there but it should be incredibly slippery, more slippery than ss5 wet was. Thats just what I would like to see because I have been watching the procars and saw how much rain impacted the whole race and started alot of carnage. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Eagle]

Weather is a different discussion.

 

[yeti]

Which is why I stipulated that F1 cars are practically the only ones significantly affected, I well remember Button's incident. The rest is all subjective though

I beg to differ about wind only affecting F1 cars...

My Girlfriends last two cars, of which I had the pleasure to be insured on and therefore have driven, have been a classic VW beetle... and if you got anywhere near about 80-90 on the motorway in anything windier than a slight breeze you would have to fight the wind every inch of the way along the motorway...

And a Suzuki Cappuccino... which is one hell of a lot more aerodynamic than a VW classic beetle however as it doesn't weigh very much the wind also affects this car quite significantly.

Now seeing as these two cars are confirmed to be in the game then I think that the wind would be significant in both performance in a straight line (i.e. Speed) but also in keeping the car on the road at high speed and handling in a corner.

However I feel that advanced elements of wind etc would be very tricky to model and process with the PS2 hardware... so although a great idea (Yet another from JohnBM) I wouldn't expect this to be in 4 but maybe for 5...

C.

 

[911_gt3_rs]

I don't know if im imagining this but i'm pretty sure i remember KY mensioning that wind resistance would be factored into GT4 in one of the early Q&A sessions last year. I will check this and report back. BTW the idea sounds pretty good to me.

--edit: Checked IGN's archive and found nothing in article E3 2003: Gran Turismo 4 Q&A Session. Does anyone else remember reading about wind long ago or am i going crazy

 

[Eagle]

You're probably crazy and just coming to realise it.

I figured someone would dispute that wind claim. Personally I've never seen a small car, even on a freeway/motorway, be overtly affected by anything under a gale gust. But anything is possible.

 

[Scaff]

You're probably crazy and just coming to realise it.

I figured someone would dispute that wind claim. Personally I've never seen a small car, even on a freeway/motorway, be overtly affected by anything under a gale gust. But anything is possible.

It could be done to where people live, but here in the UK wind strength can have a major effect onthe road and to a lesser degree at the circuit.

It is possiable for most cars to be effected by cross-winds on a raised motorway/dual carrageway, I drive approx 30-40,000 miles a year and have been affected by this on regular basis particularly in winter or near the coast. Light cars, MPV's and high sided vehicles are the most badly affected, but it can be felt in most vehicles. BMW even ran an ad campaign on the subject a number of years back, pointing out that all BMW models were aerodynamically tested both front to rear and side to side.

Tracks can be affected by wind, but as Eagle points out it can depend on the circuit and its not limited to ovals. A lot of circuits in the UK started life as de-commisoned WWII airbases and as such are commonly situated on higher ground and in quite open areas. Anyone who have driven at my local circuits (Castle Coombe or Thruxton) will vouch for this.

Also wind can cause other problems depending on the location of the circuit, such as Zandvoort in Holland, being located right next to the sea, sand is commonly blown onto the track. I can also remember the wind at Bathurst blowing litter onto the track and resulting in a plastic bag covering an air intake.

On any exposed track wind will always be an issue, should it be included in GT4; yes (IMHO) if it can be done in a balanced manner that does not overly affect the game play.

 

[amar212]

Wind is something that could not affect driving model significantly, unless some tornado unleash itself over the tracks.

What I would care about is track temperature, but that would require A LOT of new algorithams to be added.

GT5, almighty GT5...

 

[JohnBM01]

Croatian buddy of ours, I wanted to talk about temperature, but I elected to defer. I don't know about hot days as they relate to racing other than really hot parts of the race track. Cold days may mean some cold parts of the track, so spinning out would be all too common. I chose wind because it would definitely affect downforce settings, if not suspension. But nice you mention that, Amar.

 

[Scaff]

Croatian buddy of ours, I wanted to talk about temperature, but I elected to defer. I don't know about hot days as they relate to racing other than really hot parts of the race track. Cold days may mean some cold parts of the track, so spinning out would be all too common. I chose wind because it would definitely affect downforce settings, if not suspension. But nice you mention that, Amar.

John

I know you will love this one. Track temp and altitude effecting turbos. A turbo engine can be massively affected by the ambient temperature (colder denser air = more performance/warmer less dense air = lower performance).

The effect of thiner and cooler air at altitude would also have a major effect if Pikes Peak makes a return.

 

[JohnBM01]

I would love that, Scaff? Tell you what. I like that idea. Good show. I can remember the bi-turbo Porsches that raced the 24 Hours at the Nurburgring last year. I think when it was cooler, the bi-turbos (I first thought bi-turbo meant "two turbo engines in a car") cooled off, allowing for better performance. But Scaff sir/madamn (whichever you are, not trying to be mean), I think what has to be implemented is actual knowing of day or night, and actual temperature. But these can be different.

Here is a boxing example (first time I ever mentioned boxing in regards to racing). Normally, boxers fight inside arenas. But when I seen them fight in outdoor settings, like at Las Vegas or someplace, it was of course, nighttime. But the outside lighting contributed to the overall heat, and the boxers had to contend with lighting from the outside and the ambient night air. So, it would be a matter of understanding temperatures of a certain track and considering the car's temperature while racing.

Now when I said temperature as a topic, I meant as in a new thread. But great that you mention it. Any more wind talk?