Mad FinnTuners Co. - Road Racing Relics 150415

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@kingmoshoeshoe2, CTR2, You should wait a bit before testing it, updates changes too much handling, will do some fine tune to achieve same handling what it was.
Trying to get some time today/tomorrow.
 
OdeFinn, no problem, will wait for your all clear. :)

Managed another round with the GT, this time at Spa. And the track seems to be made for the car, or rather the other way around. Over a couple of laps you settle into a rhythm of braking a tad earlier than feels natural at first, so that you can enter the corners with the throttle applied; this together with an early turn-in will give excellent cornering speeds 👍
 
While waiting for the CTR to reemerge from its tune up, here a review of the Camaro. Given that it was tested some days after the GT, I decided to do some back to back testing, too, so as to get more comparable results.

Tried it at GVS and at R246 so far. The first shocker was that one could take the porky regular Camaro and turn it into a competitive 600PP contender ;) The second was just how well it performs.

On GVS it is hugely confidence inspiring and it really allows you to take all possible liberties without biting. The rear has lots of grip and cornering speeds will match much more race bred machinery. It will for instance easily handle the uphill left handed at GVS at over 200 kmh and never drop under 150 kmh at the baseball stadium right handed or the penultimate off ramp at R246.

The engine is strong, the gearbox luckily unaffected by the current GT6 glitch and the torque never really threatens the rear end, as long as you drive with a modicum of feel. In fact, the only way to get it to bite - and then it truly does - is to deliberately drive it over kerbs. As long as you stay clear, or touch them in a relatively straight line, you should be fine.

On both tracks there was just one corner that needed several attempts to get right, all the others were completely intuitive. And this was the Asakasa Palace chicane - finally it worked well but it requires much more thought than the regular driving a the car. In fact it is probably one of the most relaxing non-race 600PP car out there in my opinion. 👍 definitely something for endurance events, were they ever to return.

The comfort and trust it engenders also means that I immediately closed to within my regular distance on GVS, namely between 1,5 and 2 secs off your posted time. So time to see how it compares to the Ford.

More power, less weight, and the same PP. In principle it should not even be close but it is. After driving the GT some more, I discovered that it can be pushed quite a bit beyond what my first impression told me but it then also gets less relaxing - not surprisingly. ;) Managed to beat the Camaro time wise at GVS, albeit only by half a second a lap or so and not by your stated 2. It can equal the Camaro's cornering speeds pretty much anywhere but takes about three times the concentration to do so and is much easier to get wrong. In effect it is one of the rare cars in GT that I find very easy to drive at less than full tilt but going beyond 90% also raises the difficulty more than proportionately.

At R246 the time difference for me was starker - almost 2 secs a lap. And while with lots of care and concentration each corner could be done equally fast as in the Camaro, it just monsters the other car on the straights to such an extent that the odd small error did not matter. In fact it was one of the very rare cars, where the slight kink on the start finish straight regularly turned into a heart in mouth moment if one took it without lifting. But make no mistake, this is not a straight line dragster - it will corner exceedingly well but will also need a very capable driver to get the most out of in the curves and to consistently do so.

So all in all another great pairing from you guys, making me eagerly anticipate the next release 👍
 
Time for me to reply to a few of those. The M4, Well, I know that it's understeery and overall seriously boring when it comes to handling - I just couldn't make it playful. :ouch: Simply too much rear end grip to give it character one would expect from a 500 bhp RWD car, it insisted on holding the road no matter what and the front end seemingly couldn't be tweaked to overwhelm the rear so that's the best I could do without deliberately making the rear more slippery. oh well, at least it goes fast, quite seriously fast for a 550PP car in fact. Never expected it to be that fast and it definitely doesn't feel like it.

And the GT, now that's another unexpected performer. As you've found its handling isn't all that stellar but the power on tap is sufficient enough to overcome such shortcomings - not that the handling actually leaves that much to be desired when driving it at right at the limit, it managed to leave a 600PP 430 Scuderia behind in the first sector of Suzuka. And it wasn't an AI Scuderia or one driven by a beginner, it was my own ghost from testing the Ferrari. But indeed the name of the game with the Ford is somehow getting through the corner and then annihilating everything else on the next straight. In a way it's a MR version of the M4 with quite similar characteristics.

Your words about the gearbox issue not affecting certain cars made me wonder. As far as I know they don't have their stock final drive ratio which would be the only thing to prevent it, but is it possible that you had already built the cars prior to the 1.17 update? Existing setups remain as they are for what I know but new ones can't be made "normally" so that might explain it.
 
@kingmoshoeshoe2, CTR2 is now retuned, I fall in love with Comfort Softs during tuning due better handling on those, got rear glued better on ground but still having good cornering machine. For comfort softs take one out from all damper settings and it is glued on ground, you can drive sports compound also with softened dampers, but prefer only when going on slow tracks where you just need ultimate cornering.

Did some test laps Nordschleife online, all real, tyre depletion Normal, NoABS, clocked one lap race, so standing start with false start detection.

CS 7:29.xxx (softened suspension)
SH 7:18.xxx (suspension "normal")
SS 6:59.xxx (suspension "normal")

One lap per compound, so time includes a lot of mistakes, funniest thing was that at only thing what indicates tyre wear set ON was fuel gauge, on Sport Soft tires there was some small slice gone on all tires when finishing lap while number indicators still standing all at 10.. :)
 
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Thanks! Will try the CTR out as soon as I can. :)

As for the gear ratios, I think it may have been tuned after the bug and it works, while some cars that were tuned before cannot be made to keep the ratios. Go figure...
 
Plymouth AAR Cuda 340-6 '70

425 bhp, 64.0 kgfm, 1360 kg, PP 500
Painted in Moulin Rouge from Plymouth


Clickable for full size

Parts to fit:
Change Oil
Aero Kit, Type B
Custom Rear Wing, Wing Stays B, Wing I, Winglets J, Height -2, Width -5, painted in Matte Black from Gran Turismo
New Wheels, Inch Up: 2, Rays CE28N, finished in Nero Nemesis from Lamborghini
Sports Soft Tyres
Height-adjustable, Fully-Customizable Suspension
Fully-Customisable Transmission
Triple-Plate Clutch Kit
Carbon Propeller Shaft
Fully-Customisable Mechanical Limited-Slip Differential
Engine Tuning Stage 2
Sports Exhaust
Catalytic Converter: Sports
Weight Reduction Stage 3
Window Weight Reduction
Carbon Bonnet (Body Colour)

Overall cost: around 200.000 Cr

Suspension
Ride Height (mm): 120 / 120
Spring Rate (kgf/mm): 6.50 / 4.50
Dampers (Compression): 4 / 3
Dampers (Extension): 6 / 6
Anti-Roll Bars: 3 / 3
Camber Angle (-): 0.5 / 0.5
Toe Angle: -0.20 / 0.00

Brake Balance Controller
Brake Balance: 4 / 8

Drivetrain (Transmission)

Note: First, reset the gearbox to the default settings, then set the Max speed, and only then set the gear ratios.

Max speed: 260 km/h

Gear Ratios
1st: 2.800
2nd: 1.905
3rd: 1.475
4th: 1.200
5th: 1.000
Final Gear: 3.310

Drivetrain
Initial Torque: 5
Acceleration Sensitivity: 55
Braking Sensitivity: 15

Body
Downforce: 0 / 20
Ballast Weight (kg): 84
Ballast Position: 50

Driving Options
ASM: Off
TCS: 0
ABS: 1


All American Racers, a famous name for everyone familiar with American racing from the sixties and seventies. When they got their hands on the Cuda the result was a true homologation special and the great ancestor of all the SRT models of today.

As was the case with the Shelby GT350 five years earlier, what couldn't be changed in the car after race homologation, was changed before it. The fibreglass hood with retaining pins, a specially tuned version of the 340 engine, side exit exhausts, all race car stuff right there. As the icing on the cake it was available in the striking High Impact colours to give some proper contrast to the black hood and side stripes.

Our example here takes full advantage of the latter, being painted in probably the most garish of all the muscle car colours, the legendary Panther Pink a.k.a. Moulin Rouge. If the exhaust note isn't enough to make spectators' ears bleed, the paint will get the job done with their eyes. Overall the car is built more to a Pro Touring style than to preserve the original, the most visible modern parts being the double plane rear wing and the big alloy wheels to allow the installation of lower profile tyres without affecting the wheel diameter too much. Thanks to the increased cornering forces enabled by the tyres the suspension was fully rebuilt, not quite as a rock sled but a lot firmer than the original. The engine has been brought up to the level of the 426 Hemi while retaining some of the low end grunt of the 340 and the result is more than enough for the rear tyres to cope with. Bolted to the engine is a close ratio five speed gearbox, the original three speed slushbox wasn't much good, and finishing the drivetrain is a 3.31 Dana differential to keep revs at bearable levels on the highway.

aarcuda.jpg
 
Shelby GT350RR '65

400 bhp, 57.3 kgfm, 1140 kg, PP 500
Painted in White/Racing Stripes from Shelby


Clickable for full size

Parts to fit:
Change Oil
Aero Kit, Type B
New Wheels, Inch Up: 2, American Racing Vintage Torq Thrust, finished in White from Shelby
Sports Soft Tyres
Height-adjustable, Fully-Customizable Suspension
Fully-Customisable Transmission
Triple-Plate Clutch Kit
Carbon Propeller Shaft
Fully-Customisable Mechanical Limited-Slip Differential
Engine Tuning Stage 1
Semi-Racing Exhaust
Isometric Exhaust Manifold
Intake Tuning
Weight Reduction Stage 3
Window Weight Reduction
Carbon Bonnet (Body Colour)

Overall cost:

Suspension
Ride Height (mm): 130 / 130
Spring Rate (kgf/mm): 6.00 / 4.50
Dampers (Compression): 4 / 2
Dampers (Extension): 6 / 6
Anti-Roll Bars: 4 / 3
Camber Angle (-): 0.5 / 0.5
Toe Angle: -0.20 / 0.00

Brake Balance Controller
Brake Balance: 5 / 7

Drivetrain (Transmission)

Note: First, reset the gearbox to the default settings, then set the Max speed, and only then set the gear ratios.

Max speed: 340 km/h

Gear Ratios
1st: 2.360
2nd: 1.620
3rd: 1.200
4th: 1.000
5th: 0.775
Final Gear: 3.500

Drivetrain
Initial Torque: 5
Acceleration Sensitivity: 15
Braking Sensitivity: 5

Body
Ballast Weight (kg): 101
Ballast Position: 50

Driving Options
ASM: Off
TCS: 0
ABS: 1


First things first - what the younger audience usually calls "Viper stripes" certainly isn't that. Shelby stripes would be much closer to the truth.

But to the car in question. Built as an attempt to get around the rules for SCCA sports car racing Carroll Shelby took normal '65 fastback Mustangs and worked a bit of magic. The rules said that certain parts had to be similar to production cars, nobody said that those parts couldn't be race ready right off the showroom floor and that's pretty much how the GT350 was born. No rear seats, the battery located in the trunk, the hood made of fibreglass, half of the suspension and brakes more or less remade. And the entire thing finished off with blue rocker panel stripes and very nearly unsilenced side exhausts. It was fast, and it was loud. Then again what would one expect from something that is practically a racing car with licence plates?

Well how about a bit more. There was also the GT350R model with further transformation and that's what has happened to our example here. Thrown to the garage corner were the beautifully shiny bumpers because lightness is the key and fibreglass weighs less than chromed steel. The engine was slightly tickled with period correctness in mind, no electronic fuel injection or ignition timing this time, and the suspension upgraded a bit more. The original Detroit locker differential (which was never shipped with this particular car, it seems) was changed for a more manageable clutch pack version with a couple of different final ratios available. The exterior was finished by the wide double stripes, a set of what else than Torq Thrust wheels and number plates. Ready to race, 50 years old or not.

About the final ratios - if you only need around 235 km/h, 145 mph, use the stock gearbox. It has the exactly correct ratios and it's silent. If you need more use the FC gearbox and don't shift to fifth. It goes faster but whines quite a bit.
 
After months I've decided to play GT6 today for no real reason. I had time to go back to my favorite tuners.
Though I'll be honest, after months of neglect my capability at the game has decreased and I never really was much more than average. Keep that in mind while reading what I have to say. I'm no expert.
With that in mind here's a mini-review. Mini because I only put in a few laps and it's midnight. So excuse the lack of content.

I gave Greycap's Plymouth AAR Cuda 340-6 '70 a try.
What I usually think when I see a tune of a rear wheel drive car by Greycap 'rated' as Advanced is 'Oh dear, it's going to do rude things to me'.
And it sure looks rude with it's matte black/pink exterior.

I gave it a spin on Grand Valley Speedway and one of the first things I noticed was that the car is actually very controllable. It certainly made me more confident when I realized that the car crisply responds to the driver. It's very stable under braking, cornering and while accelerating. I never really got the impression that with one wrong move I'd end up in a spin.
The feeling of control is present even when pushed over the edge. It's a rear wheel drive car and the power is certainly there, so even if at first I made it seem like the car always goes like it's on rails you can still push it over the edge. And I'd encourage anyone to do so, because when you do it initiates an absolutely wonderful slide. The obedience of the car is still present and with fast enough reactions and some finesse with the wheel and gas pedal you'll be sliding around every corner. Because it's damn fun.
This is certainly what I ended up doing after getting acquainted with the car. Maybe the car is very competitive. With exactly 500PP, maybe it'd fit in well in online lobbies, but I wouldn't know. I was too busy doing this.

 
That's a good one! 👍

The Advanced rating has its roots in how hard it is to keep the car on the limit - a tad too far and it acts exactly as you found it to. There's slightly too much power for the rear tyres to handle but then again it wouldn't be a proper muscle car if that wasn't the case. Tuned to be fast or not, these things aren't all about the last hundredths of a second, being entertaining plays a role at least as big.

About being competitive in the 500PP class, well, not really. If the competition is somewhat above average the Cuda will fight back ferociously but it needs an ace driver to be able to do so and against the true cream of the 500PP machinery it stands no chance. Among contemporary muscle cars, though, it can cause quite an unpleasant surprise with its planted behaviour and emphasis on handling before power. It's the "drivable" car of this pair, the Shelby is the really wild child here.
 
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