Make all cars available from the start?

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Make all cars available from the start?

  • Yes

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Inserts GT7 into PS4.

Intro *claps hands in awe*

Chooses game mode. Free play, Career Mode, 2player, Single player, Online share play

Free play: All cars available, All tracks available, Customise Championship, Free roam( Offline)

Career Mode: Begin with Nissan Micra and advance through game as per normal( Offline)

2player, Single player: as per previous GT games( Offline)

Online share play: GT World Community, All cars available, All tracks available, Free roam
 
So now we've gone from debating what GT7 ought to be like to predicting what GT7 might be like?





Okay...

Yes , because that's such a big leap in topic isn't it ?

You shouldn't get confused when you're question is answered and logically extended .

I tell it as I see it , if you don't like my answers then feel free to stop asking my opinion
 
You would need to ask Kaz about that . I didn't design the challenge of the game . It is what it is currently .

Having all the cars available to use for career right away would severely make the game magnitudes of times too easy to complete though . I can see why this is clearly , as PD want/need the longevity from players to stick around and keep playing / grinding etc ....

With the years inbetween GT title releases it is obvious it will always be that way
Too bad no one is suggesting that all cars should be available in career mode then.
 
Too bad no one is suggesting that all cars should be available in career mode then.

Title says " Make All Cars Be Avaliable From The Start ? "

You should re read the OP .

It suggests full car availability from the start

👍
 
You shouldn't get confused when you're question is answered and logically extended .
Except that you have done nothing of the sort.


Let me reiterate:
You could just jump in the best troll cars in the game and complete it in a day . Wheres the progression in that ?
You began with the assertion that the satisfaction of progression can only be achieved through completing the career mode, to which I responded there was no such thing since the racing was ridiculously easy to begin with:
Oh, implying that you're satisfied with your "progression" in a career mode that gives zero reward for good driving?

You then continue the assertion that progression is a necessity for a game to be enjoyable.
Do you have 100% completion ? I do . And I didn't have to spend any real life money to by cars and found it enjoyable to progress through as I did so .

We're talking about gaming , specifically progression versus having it the easy way and everything unlocked .
To which I respond that, no, it's not, not in GT6 anyway:
I never said that having to work for your cars is unrewarding. I did however say that the way GT6 forces you to have to grind (thereby participating in some of the most unfulfilling and boring catch the rabbit races) is mind-numbingly awful and a huge turnoff as a gamer who wants to enjoy their time. The effort required to persist in these pathetically designed races heavily overshadows any sort of fulfilment I might feel for buying a car that I worked so hard for. If the races in GT were fun, as they ought to be, then I have zero problem with the old system of having to work for your cars.

You then argue that racing in GT6 is indeed enjoyable, and that all I needed to do was nerf my own performance.
You do realise that you can go well below the PP and tyre limit to make it more fun right ?

I don't see why not . Do you not find challenge fun or do you just want to win everything easy ?
The AI in 6 is a shocker , but is has improved over 5 . Agreed that it needs much more work . But I myself have fun with it , i'm sure other people without internet do also ... But then they wouldn't be on GTP .
AGAIN I will state go under the PP and try LOWER GRADE TYRES if you find it too easy . Then come back and tell me going 200+PP below and 3 grades of tyre caused you to win the race without any challenge
Which is a flawed argument to begin with, for reasons @Pseudopod briefly explained (and extended starting here):
And if a fps is too easy, you should just play it without shooting instead of wanting a harder difficulty mode. Imposing artificial challenges is a poor replacement for actual difficulty in a game.



All the while accusing myself and others who want all cars available from the start of laziness (in a video game? Is that technically possible even?) :
I stand by my opinion of it's laziness to not progress in a way the game intends people to .
30% is barely touching the game . Falls under laziness if you have no intention to complete it but want all content available for you in my opinion


So to sum up, you never seemed to have understood my point that the way the game is currently structured means that have to buy cars means going through a tedious, monotonous process that I'd rather not have to experience in a video game. A video game is supposed to be fun. Grinding isn't. It's something that takes away all the enjoyment you otherwise would have gotten from the "fulfilment" of buying a car that I had to work for.
 
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I'll respond how you choose to






Okay...
That was my response after you decided to go on a tangent and ramble about something that had nothing to do with the conversation at hand. I have done nothing similar with my previous post.

Otherwise, if you've run out of arguments, don't bother quoting me at all and wasting my time. 👍
 
A video game is supposed to be fun. Grinding isn't. It's something that takes away all the enjoyment you otherwise would have gotten from the "fulfilment" of buying a car that I had to work for.
Grinding is a challenge and fun to buy some cars, so it is an enjoyment. 👍
 
Grinding is a challenge and fun to buy some cars, so it is an enjoyment. 👍

Nothing beats the feeling in GT than getting your hands on 20 million plus and picking up several of the high end priced machines .
Even used old Bob in B-Spec to grind it , along with the easy money from the X1 championship .

So quick and easy to get good money with a little effort and some fun on the way too .

Earned 290 million in 12 months which as given me 440+ of the best cars to enjoy .
 
Nothing beats the feeling in GT than getting your hands on 20 million plus and picking up several of the high end priced machines .
Even used old Bob in B-Spec to grind it , along with the easy money from the X1 championship .

So quick and easy to get good money with a little effort and some fun on the way too .
You are spot on. :cheers::cheers:
 
...Boy, things escalated here pretty quickly. Thank the heavens for time zones. :ill:

Things being argued here, I can't help but find it's a bit strange. I think there was a breakdown of communication here somewhere.

I still believe having all cars unlocked in GT mode is obviously wrong (MY OPINION!!!) but the flip side argument of many folks not wanting to be handicapped in online races makes me think they too have a valid reason.

Never mind grinding, or lackluster AI, because that's not OP is about, but the availability of all cars in the game from the beginning, that's what we're here to talk about right?

That thing about hidden cars though - I kinda like it. Rewarding certain players who have accomplished a difficult but achievable task sounds like a proper tempting bait to draw players back to SP.
It'd be kinda like you coming in first at an athletics meet, and get a gold medal. It's your badge of honor, and screw with being PC, "everyone gets a star" crap. :mischievous:
 
Nothing beats the feeling in GT than getting your hands on 20 million plus and picking up several of the high end priced machines .
Even used old Bob in B-Spec to grind it , along with the easy money from the X1 championship .

So quick and easy to get good money with a little effort and some fun on the way too .

Earned 290 million in 12 months which as given me 440+ of the best cars to enjoy .
That's all fine for you. It's that we aren't having fun but you insist on trying to shove your fun down our throat. Maybe it would be fun for us as well if the AI could put up some sort of challenge on their own, but for the time being it just comes up as a pointless, boring task.

Inserts GT7 into PS4.

Intro *claps hands in awe*

Chooses game mode. Free play, Career Mode, 2player, Single player, Online share play

Free play: All cars available, All tracks available, Customise Championship, Free roam( Offline)

Career Mode: Begin with Nissan Micra and advance through game as per normal( Offline)

2player, Single player: as per previous GT games( Offline)

Online share play: GT World Community, All cars available, All tracks available, Free roam
Kind of going off this. @TJC_69 if you feel like you want to grind a career mode to be able to afford certain cars, and to nerf yourself in order to be able to let the AI still lose to you, that's fine. You can have a career mode with a progression and credit system.

If someone wants to just jump in and play, I feel it would be perfectly alright if the online portion(as well as free play) of the game had everything unlocked. It wouldn't hinder you any because it won't be effecting your career mode whatsoever.
 
*opens door and pops head through*

Why should i apologize after the way you was with me couple of weeks ago getting personal? ill apologize when you do.

*closes door again*
You are clearly responding to me without even reading what I'm writing and making baseless claims about my position. If I did that to you 2 week ago, the feel free to point it out to me and your apology will be forthcoming. The fact that I gave you information that directly contradicted what you thought my position was and didn't acknowledge or discuss it tells me you are just here to flamebait and not really have a discussion.

AGAIN I will state go under the PP and try LOWER GRADE TYRES if you find it too easy . Then come back and tell me going 200+PP below and 3 grades of tyre caused you to win the race without any challenge

Ermmmmmmmm , no , it isn't . AI in 6 is superior , first thing I noticed from playing 5 then buying 6 .
Does anyone else think they made the AI worse than in 5 ?
Nerfing my car means that I'm not on pace with the AI in the corners and/or the straights. How is that good racing? How is it that every other game is able to produce AI that keep up to you with the same car, same tires, and same spec, but in GT it's up to the player to run the race for a bit, figure out the pace of the AI, quit, adjust your car, try again, stop, adjust your car again, run the race for a bit etc. etc. etc.? It's not even terrible game design it's no game design, because there are no game tools you can use to adjust the AI to suit your level of skill, it's left in the hands of the player to adjust his car to get the pace right.

Ermmmmmmmm , no , it isn't . AI in 6 is superior , first thing I noticed from playing 5 then buying 6 .Does anyone else think they made the AI worse than in 5 ?
The AI in GT5 and GT6 is the worst in all of sim racing, hands down. No difficulty slider, way off pace for most players, uses rubber banding to artificially create a sense of "racing", no standing starts and chase the rabbit for X laps after starting 20+ seconds behind the leader. It's not racing is a time trial with moving pylons where the leader slows down to let you catch up and win.

Grinding is a challenge and fun to buy some cars, so it is an enjoyment. 👍
Except when you're too busy and avoid the grinding by using a money glitch to skip the worst designed part of any Gran Turismo game ever, right buddy?
 
Title says " Make All Cars Be Avaliable From The Start ? "

You should re read the OP .

It suggests full car availability from the start

👍
I read the OP, half a year ago. I don't go around remembering every single word in it, however.

In either case, yes, the OP says that. The discussion has evolved away from that exact idea since then. All cars can be available from the start, even if that doesn't include every game mode.
 
You are clearly responding to me without even reading what I'm writing and making baseless claims about my position. If I did that to you 2 week ago, the feel free to point it out to me and your apology will be forthcoming. The fact that I gave you information that directly contradicted what you thought my position was and didn't acknowledge or discuss it tells me you are just here to flamebait and not really have a discussion.

Nerfing my car means that I'm not on pace with the AI in the corners and/or the straights. How is that good racing? How is it that every other game is able to produce AI that keep up to you with the same car, same tires, and same spec, but in GT it's up to the player to run the race for a bit, figure out the pace of the AI, quit, adjust your car, try again, stop, adjust your car again, run the race for a bit etc. etc. etc.? It's not even terrible game design it's no game design, because there are no game tools you can use to adjust the AI to suit your level of skill, it's left in the hands of the player to adjust his car to get the pace right.

The AI in GT5 and GT6 is the worst in all of sim racing, hands down. No difficulty slider, way off pace for most players, uses rubber banding to artificially create a sense of "racing", no standing starts and chase the rabbit for X laps after starting 20+ seconds behind the leader. It's not racing is a time trial with moving pylons where the leader slows down to let you catch up and win.

Except when you're too busy and avoid the grinding by using a money glitch to skip the worst designed part of any Gran Turismo game ever, right buddy?
No.
 
No it's not a challenge? We already knew that, but thanks.

Ermmmmmmmm , no , it isn't . AI in 6 is superior , first thing I noticed from playing 5 then buying 6 .
Does anyone else think they made the AI worse than in 5 ?
There was no rubber banding in GT5, and GT6 also stripped away all evidence of the actually impressive (albeit flawed) adaptive behaviour system GT5 had to just replace it with rubber banding instead, so yes.
 
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You are clearly responding to me without even reading what I'm writing and making baseless claims about my position. If I did that to you 2 week ago, the feel free to point it out to me and your apology will be forthcoming. The fact that I gave you information that directly contradicted what you thought my position was and didn't acknowledge or discuss it tells me you are just here to flame bait and not really have a discussion.


I can't be bothered going through weeks of comments and clearly you've not been reading my comments but if you think that im just here to "flame bait" carry on, as i cant be bothered wasting my time with you any more.
 
I can't be bothered going through weeks of comments and clearly you've not been reading my comment as there anything from "flame bait"
Again, I did the work for you, provide the quotes that proved you were completely wrong, and the quotes were dead centre in the middle of a conversation in which you were an active participant. It's fine if you simply missed them, which, when point out to them most people would just say acknowledge it and move on, but you continued to ignore them and not acknowledge your mistake, even after I did the work and obtained the quotes for you..which tells me you're just trolling and not really participating.
 
Again, I did the work for you, provide the quotes that proved you were completely wrong, and the quotes were dead centre in the middle of a conversation in which you were an active participant. It's fine if you simply missed them, which, when point out to them most people would just say acknowledge it and move on, but you continued to ignore them and not acknowledge your mistake, even after I did the work and obtained the quotes for you..which tells me you're just trolling and not really participating.

Think what you like i dont care any more. You right im wrong. happy? ill just carry on enjoying a game i still play.
 
I feel the mandatory completion of some of the career at the start was good for the series , in that at least when you go online you're less likely to be rammed off constantly by a 10 year old playing bumper cars in an X1 .
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...e-from-the-start.318545/page-22#post-10762583
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...e-from-the-start.318545/page-24#post-10765047

Some people in this thread need to be more open-minded.
Having options that make the game enjoyable to as many people as possible is a good thing, having alternate ways to access the cars is a good thing. Why would anyone be against stuff that would make the game enjoyable to more people?
 
There are other solutions so people can get more cars without grinding.
First, we could have more prize cars, instead of what we have in GT6, make like GT5, new car every championship you win.
Second, bigger payouts (as simple as that).
Third, something similar to Forza's wheel spin, or instead, like fifa, random boxes that could give you money (max. 1 million credits), rare paints and of course, cars. We could have 4 types of boxes, bronze, silver, gold and platinum.
Bronze box:
-10000 to 50000 credits;
-2 relatively rare paints (that you wouldn't need to pay when you choose to paint a car with them);
-1 car, which would be limited to a set of price or PP (for example, 10k to 50k, or, 350 to 500 pp)

Silver box:
-50k to 250k;
-4 rare paints;
-1 car from a price range between 50k and 250k or 500 to 550 pp

Gold box:
-250k to 1M
-10 rare/unique paints
-1 car between 250k and 1M or 550 to 600pp

Platinum box:
-1M to 5M
-1 car between 1M upwards (and yes, this includes a slight chance of getting one of the 20M credits cars)

Rules:
The rarity of the paints depends on the type of box, for example, in the gold box you would be able to get chrome or those variable paints, while in the bronze you could get a rare solid or metallic color.
You would get this boxes by millestones and/or challenges in every race, for example, every 50km or 100km spent racing (online and offline) you would get a bronze box, every 150/200km a silver box, and so on. The platinum box could require something like 500km or even 1000km to get one. The other way you could get those boxes, would be by challenges, for example, in a certain offline race, if you beat one specific lap time, you could get a bronze box, or in a drift race, if you make for example 2000 points in a corner, you could get one (but you only get the box for that specific challenge one time, so you did, can't redo over and over again).
Now, since this could give some people cars/paints they already had, you could sell them in an online auction.
Other way to get those boxes could be in the seasonal events, specially those three races every two weeks or so, that go from easy to hard difficulty. So, get gold in the easy, you get a bronze box, in the medium you get a 2 bronze boxes, and in the hard one, 1 silver box (why not gold? because one simple race shouldn't give you a car prize between 250k and 1M credits).

Well, just my ideas:D
 
There are other solutions so people can get more cars without grinding.
First, we could have more prize cars, instead of what we have in GT6, make like GT5, new car every championship you win.
Second, bigger payouts (as simple as that).
Third, something similar to Forza's wheel spin, or instead, like fifa, random boxes that could give you money (max. 1 million credits), rare paints and of course, cars. We could have 4 types of boxes, bronze, silver, gold and platinum.
Bronze box:
-10000 to 50000 credits;
-2 relatively rare paints (that you wouldn't need to pay when you choose to paint a car with them);
-1 car, which would be limited to a set of price or PP (for example, 10k to 50k, or, 350 to 500 pp)

Silver box:
-50k to 250k;
-4 rare paints;
-1 car from a price range between 50k and 250k or 500 to 550 pp

Gold box:
-250k to 1M
-10 rare/unique paints
-1 car between 250k and 1M or 550 to 600pp

Platinum box:
-1M to 5M
-1 car between 1M upwards (and yes, this includes a slight chance of getting one of the 20M credits cars)

Rules:
The rarity of the paints depends on the type of box, for example, in the gold box you would be able to get chrome or those variable paints, while in the bronze you could get a rare solid or metallic color.
You would get this boxes by millestones and/or challenges in every race, for example, every 50km or 100km spent racing (online and offline) you would get a bronze box, every 150/200km a silver box, and so on. The platinum box could require something like 500km or even 1000km to get one. The other way you could get those boxes, would be by challenges, for example, in a certain offline race, if you beat one specific lap time, you could get a bronze box, or in a drift race, if you make for example 2000 points in a corner, you could get one (but you only get the box for that specific challenge one time, so you did, can't redo over and over again).
Now, since this could give some people cars/paints they already had, you could sell them in an online auction.
Other way to get those boxes could be in the seasonal events, specially those three races every two weeks or so, that go from easy to hard difficulty. So, get gold in the easy, you get a bronze box, in the medium you get a 2 bronze boxes, and in the hard one, 1 silver box (why not gold? because one simple race shouldn't give you a car prize between 250k and 1M credits).

Well, just my ideas:D
All that really does is make a hybrid game by trying to accomodate all players by mixing everything together and it just ends up a mishmash. If someone has no interest in earning money and a career, it doesn't really matter how much you change it, it's still a waste of time. At the same time, it doesn't give the players that really want a challenging career what they want either. If I wanted a challenging career where I really had to think about how I spent my money as in GT1-4, getting $100k by spinning a box 2 races into the game will ruin that for me too.

Why not just design different game modes, with each mode tailored to that type of user?

1. Make a challenging career mode with a separate garage and bank account, spiff up the AI, and make the prizes enough to progress through the career but not so much that you have so much money that winning money becomes irrelevant. The career can be completely separate and distinct from the rest of the game, at the players option, or he/she can mix and mingle things as desired just like you do now.

2. Make another mode, completely separate, where you can just choose whatever car you want and race online or in a free race mode, custom series etc. and include tuning and upgrades. Make the mode optional so if a player wants only to use their career bought and earned cars to play the game they can. No one should be forced into this mode it should be an option.

3. In order for the Seasonals winnings not to affect your Career and defeat the purpose of being a struggling up and coming race driver, give the player the option to put Seasonal winnings in a separate account so it can't be spent on cars and upgrades in the career. Instead, if the player has chosen to not use the sandbox mode above, the money can be used to buy and upgrade cars just like in the classic game and they can then be taken online or to a custom career or race mode, but not into the career mode which is entirely self contained.

I think this is a beautiful system:)
 
You still don't get that GT is not PCars where you develop a career as a racedriver...

So, basically, you want to introduce in one game, two different types of game? "1. Copy and paste Project Cars" "2. Make a game with zero challenge, zero sense of achievement, zero sense of ownership." Although I understand what you say, doing what you said in "2", is the same as playing fallout or GTA or whatever in god mode... You play the game just to say "I played this game, yay for me"...
All I "presented" was solutions for a problem (for me wasn't a problem, since I own 600+ cars in GT6, and 1200+ in GT5...), and you just said "open a box in the first two races and get 100k will ruin it for me", when you clearly didn't even get the idea behind the "boxes"...

Funny how you crush your own arguments... "I don't want to grind to buy a car" "getting money from a box (that would help you so you wouldn't need to grind anymore) ruins it for me"... So you don't like to grind, but if something helps you so you don't need to, you still don't like? Makes sense... I guess... not...

But yeah, I want better AI and no more "rabbit chase", so in this I'm in the same page as you.

You think that is a beautiful system? Well, now if it's not "beautiful" for me and other people? And wouldn't be easier make a game that somehow fulfills everyone's needs? Why not give us a game with better AI (with difficulty settings), better sounds and better prizes so you won't need to grind for hours to get a Huayra? Why complicate and create three different games, which would confuse most of the starters?
I'll put it this way, do you have any Battlefield? If so, imagine this, you start the game with the initial crappy weapons, and other players choose to go the easy way, and get all from the beggining, all the OP weapons and equipment that give them advantage over you, how would you feel? Now that would be a problem right? And now tell me, how many games do that? Why do you think they don't do it? I know you will come with the argument "but other game's campaign are not boring like GT's", well, guess what, for me Driveclub gets boring, Need For Speed gets boring (kind of), even Far Cry 4 gets boring despite being an amazing game (for me of course)... Even GT6 gets boring sometimes, but then, when something new appears, don't care if it's the paintable spoilers, or the echo in tunnels, a single track... I will spend hours straight on it, because I know how to enjoy what I have, maybe the difference is that you are used to get what you want, when you want, and ask for even more. Me on the other way, I'm happy with what I have, if something more comes, it's always welcome, but until then, my mentality will always be of gratitude for what I have, because some people have nothing at all, and here we are concerned about discussing grinding or not in a game...
 

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