Many are going faster - Except F1

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GTP_Royalton
Kind of odd that F1 is suppose to be the pinnacle of motorsports, yet the cars arent going faster - they're going slower

NASCAR, Indycar, MotoGP, etc are all breaking track records almost every other race. NASCAR and Indycar in particular are making serious increases to the performance of the cars. F1 is not.

So how is it the pinnacle of motorsport when they're going slower?

Melbourne
2004 pole - 1'24.4
2013 pole - 1'27.4 (+3.0)
2004 fast lap - 1'24.1
2013 fast lap - 1:29.2 (+5.1)

Its pretty much the same at every other track
 
The horse is dead just to let you know.
 
Le Mans Prototypes are heading to the right direction, thanks to the 2014 new rules and regulations! More privateer teams are joining the LMP1 class, Oak/Rebellion/Dome/Perrinn & many others shall follow them.
 
Le Mans Prototypes are heading to the right direction, thanks to the 2014 new rules and regulations! More privateer teams are joining the LMP1 class, Oak/Rebellion/Dome/Perrinn & many others shall follow them.

Not sure how any of that is relevant to F1 not going faster.
 
Pinnacle doesn't necessarily mean being the fastest in Motorsports. I'd look more at what tech is being used to warrant a Motorsport being the pinnacle. The tyre tech could be slowing the lap times as drivers are called to nurse the tyres. Less drag to allow passing slows cornering speeds. The engines are changing again when I think they were making more hp ten years ago than today(correct me if I'm wrong).
 
F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport for more reasons than just speed. Whilst yes, it is incredibly fast, it is possible to make faster cars, even in 2005 when they were freakishly quick.
F1 is partly about technology and handling; finding tricks within the rules to make a car go faster. However, F1 is supposed to be about innovation, something teams are getting less allowances to do.
F1 has pioneered technology such as sequential gearboxes and carbon-fibre construction. These are things that have influenced the car industry for years.

Whilst yes, they aren't breaking records every week like NASCAR, they aren't racing on ovals that are generally tracks designed for velocity rather than technical challenge, in cars that contain less technology than my Civic. The NASCAR/IndyCar/Moto GP comparison to F1 is nearly pointless, they are far too different.

But at the end of the day, motor-racing isn't just about how fast they're going, it's about the spectacle.
 
Well seeing as the rulemakers keep changing the rules to slow them down its hardly a surprise.

I agree with evilserpentman about everything he said :) Its not just the speed that makes them the pinnacle, its whats underneath the cars as well. I love it
 
So? F1 is still faster than anything else on 4 wheels, by a long way too. No need to have faster cars.
 
The main difference between 2004 and 2013 is the engines. In 2004, everyone had 3 litre V10 engines, all being developed to break the 19,000 rpm wall, but now we have 2.4 litre V8's limited to 17,000 rpm. This is the main difference as it increases fuel economy.
The cars are getting faster, but regulations are making them slower with tyres restricting race lap times enormously.
 
I put very little focus on "record" times, simply because regulations in motorsports differ so much over periods of time. Even in a series like NASCAR where the cars haven't evolved nearly as much as other series' the aero packages can vary quite a bit over years.

So? F1 is still faster than anything else on 4 wheels, by a long way too. No need to have faster cars.

They are hardly the fastest things on 4 wheels, granted the things that are faster aren't exactly known for turning... at all.

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top-fuel-army-dragster.jpg
 
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Formula One has not always been the "pinnacle" of motorsports. In the early 1970s, the pinnacle was surely sportscar racing in general, especially Can-Am.

The ever changing Formula has also produced faster and slower cars throughout its history. In '52 and '53, F2 regulations were adopted. Additionally, from 1961 to 1965, F1 required 1.5 litre engines, before the rules changed to allow 3 litre engines in 1966. Perhaps one day when the FIA deems the sport safe enough, they can go back to this iconic 3 litre Formula, although it is highly unlikely they will ever go back to it.

However, Formula One has always been just that, Formula One (well, except for when it was F2 anyway :p). It is the highest form of open wheel racing, with many tiers of junior categories underneath it.
 
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They are hardly the fastest things on 4 wheels, granted the things that are faster aren't exactly known for turning... at all.
Well yes, but I though it was clear we were taking about motorsport, or more specifically circuit racing.

And yes, there are cars that are faster than F1 cars on very large ovals, but F1 is still clearly the fastest set of wheels on the vast majority of race courses in the world, which was my point.
 
Earth
Kind of odd that F1 is suppose to be the pinnacle of motorsports, yet the cars arent going faster - they're going slower

NASCAR, Indycar, MotoGP, etc are all breaking track records almost every other race. NASCAR and Indycar in particular are making serious increases to the performance of the cars. F1 is not.

So how is it the pinnacle of motorsport when they're going slower?

Melbourne
2004 pole - 1'24.4
2013 pole - 1'27.4 (+3.0)
2004 fast lap - 1'24.1
2013 fast lap - 1:29.2 (+5.1)

Its pretty much the same at every other track

You do realise that F1 cars outperform all other race cars, right? No other class can lap a track as fast as an F1 car. They can do 0 - 100 and back to 0 while a Cup car is still getting to 100. They get roughly as much power as a Cup car but from a 2.4-liter V8, and don't use anything to boost its power output to do it. I believe commentators during an IndyCar race said the cars were reaching 170 on that road course and that was the fastest they see on road courses, but F1 cars often see 200 on road courses and over that at Monza.

F1 cars are constantly being slowed by changing regulations meant to slow them. It's only the constant improvement from the teams that counters this so that lap times keep coming out similar. The rules do this for safety. They feel that 300-MPH cars cornering at 210 MPH (in hairpins) and braking from 250 to 0 in 1.2 seconds at 47 Gs is a bit too dangerous.

You know how people scoff at the unbelievability of the X2010/X2011? If F1 regulations didn't hold them back, that's basically what F1 would be. In fact, an F1 team designed that car. Everything required is available today, except for an open set of series regulations to allow it.
 
Kind of odd that F1 is suppose to be the pinnacle of motorsports, yet the cars arent going faster - they're going slower
So?

My ideal version of Formula 1 would be slower than a wet week - but it would make for fantastic racing. First, I'd ban aerodyanmics: the most cars would be allowed to have would be a single-plane front wing (instead of the six-element monstrosity Red Bull are using). The transmission would be completely manual, and most of the sensors sending information back to pit lane would be removed. Electronic wizardry like traction control and launch control would also be banned. Mechanical grip would take precedence.

The cars would be significantly slower. But dammit if the racing wouldn't be spectacular, since driver skill would reign supreme.
 
So?

My ideal version of Formula 1 would be slower than a wet week - but it would make for fantastic racing. First, I'd ban aerodyanmics: the most cars would be allowed to have would be a single-plane front wing (instead of the six-element monstrosity Red Bull are using). The transmission would be completely manual, and most of the sensors sending information back to pit lane would be removed. Electronic wizardry like traction control and launch control would also be banned. Mechanical grip would take precedence.

The cars would be significantly slower. But dammit if the racing wouldn't be spectacular, since driver skill would reign supreme.

Yeah, I miss the old days too..
 
So?

My ideal version of Formula 1 would be slower than a wet week - but it would make for fantastic racing. First, I'd ban aerodyanmics: the most cars would be allowed to have would be a single-plane front wing (instead of the six-element monstrosity Red Bull are using). The transmission would be completely manual, and most of the sensors sending information back to pit lane would be removed. Electronic wizardry like traction control and launch control would also be banned. Mechanical grip would take precedence.

The cars would be significantly slower. But dammit if the racing wouldn't be spectacular, since driver skill would reign supreme.

Formula Ford.
 
Kind of odd that F1 is suppose to be the pinnacle of motorsports, yet the cars arent going faster - they're going slower

NASCAR, Indycar, MotoGP, etc are all breaking track records almost every other race. NASCAR and Indycar in particular are making serious increases to the performance of the cars.
So why was the track record at Indianapolis set in 1996?

F1 cars are still the fastest things round the vast majority of tracks, and as long as that remains, I don't see the issue. If you are at the pinnacle, there is no need to go faster...
 
So why was the track record at Indianapolis set in 1996?

F1 cars are still the fastest things round the vast majority of tracks, and as long as that remains, I don't see the issue. If you are at the pinnacle, there is no need to go faster...

This!

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Spy.
 
I want them to go faster because I know they can, it's bugs my OCD. Without all the restrictions they could potentially be upwards of 10 seconds faster than in 2004.
 
At which point the sport would become so expensive that the average life expectancy of a team would be about ten seconds.
 
Kind of odd that F1 is suppose to be the pinnacle of motorsports, yet the cars arent going faster - they're going slower

As others have already stated, there comes a point when the lap times are so fast, it becomes a safety issue, both in terms of protecting the drivers in case of accidents, and to an extent, protecting the drivers from themselves. Drivers, especially those racing is a series that bills itself as the pinnacle of motorsports, will always try to go faster. It's in their nature. But it's a matter of being sensible. Every year the teams try to engineer their cars to go faster. And every year they do. So the governing body has to keep introducing new restrictions to slow them down. Grooved tires, controlled tires, smaller diameter wheels, narrower chassis, banning of active suspensions, ABS, smaller engines, banning of exotic metals, technology limits on the engines, aerodynamic restrictions, ride height restrictions, wing size restrictions, and countless other measures over the years have all slowed the cars down. But considering the rules put in place to slow the cars down, it's amazing how quickly they still manage to go. On most race tracks, F1 cars are still significantly quicker over a lap than other racing cars.

The technology existed already during the 1980s, and certainly during the 1990s, to design and build light weight, open wheel racing cars, that were capable of delivering cornering speeds and cornering forces that would put the drivers at considerable risk. If for example, a team were to build a car such as the Redbull X2010, the driver would almost certainly need a pressure suit, similar to what fighter pilots wear, to keep from blacking out during sustained, high G cornering. Not to mention the negative braking forces. It gets the point where you're no longer driving a car but piloting a ground based missile. And as much as I love the fact that each F1 team designs and develops it's own car, there comes a point where you truly have to stop the technology madness. As it is, many of the traditional Grand Prix tracks are simply not suited, or let's say, conducive to modern F1 cars. And a car like the X2010 has so little in common with the average road car, that you really have to ask yourself, what's the point.

F1 cars are still plenty fast. And except for a few Le Mans prototypes, basically employ some of the most advanced technology in the racing world. It's more a matter of the teams being clever and innovative, within the framework of the rules, to consistently make their cars faster than the competition. And they usually do. If the day comes that GP2 cars, or any feeder series, are faster than F1 cars, than we'd have to really question what they're doing.

At which point the sport would become so expensive that the average life expectancy of a team would be about ten seconds.

Not necessarily. As much as my own interest in F1 has waned over the years and I now find myself more a fan of GT sports car racing, I don't pine for the days of H-pattern gear boxes and skinny tires. It's in the past and times have changed. And if that's what I want to see, I'll watch historic races.

The teams are going to spend as much money as is available to them. If some of the rules were lifted, the teams could probably create cars that are significantly quicker than they currently are without spending much more money than they already do. What costs money is the immense R&D that goes into gaining an additional 0.5 seconds from their current car, within the framework of the rules.
 
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I always figured they weren't going any faster because the drivers were already at the limit of passing out during cornering with the current G-forces. That said, I'd be happy if the cars stayed around 2004 pace, having them go slower than previous years just feels so pedestrian.
 
Take blown exhausts, double diffuser, double DRS, wider front wing, kers and other aero parts from today's car. Then, take the V10, wide rear wing, shorter wheelbase, lower minimum weight and full slick option bridgestones.

What you'll get is possibly 5-7 seconds faster than what we have now but we're not going to see any overtaking. Granted, I'd rather get that than 10 pirelli pitstops it's still not that fun to watch.

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I think it can even go up to 10 seconds, maybe more. The engines alone could be worth 5 seconds.
 
Grand Prix
Formula One has not always been the "pinnacle" of motorsports. In the early 1970s, the pinnacle was surely sportscar racing in general, especially Can-Am...

Can-Am was as close to Formula Libre as we'll ever see on a professional level, but looking back, McLaren utterly dominated it for four years straight, was caught up by Porsche 1971, who then dominated in 1972 through 1973. So the teams want some sort of restrictions, or the fields also thin out, making organizers and governing bodies nervous.

Never mind Indy, last I checked, NASCAR also does its best to prevent 200+ mph speeds, starting in the 1988 season. The insane 212 mph qualifying speeds aren't likely to be seen again, after Bobby Allison nearly achieved escape velocity. Granted, aero grip has increased a lot in the years, so some of the slower tracks are seeing faster speeds...but only incrementally so.

The rules in F1 have been modified so much in the past 30 years, that there's really no telling how fast things would be now. The modifications to the cars were responses to changes in the rules, and every time there's a so-called spending cutback, safety modification, or change in the formula to prevent one team from crushing the others, the lap times suffer...although usually only for a year or two. I think the FIA wants to show closer racing as a means to show who is the best driver, but within the scope of letting the teams completely design, engineer, and construct their own vehicles, which is something fewer high-level motorsport echelons permit each year.

In retrospect, I don't think that many fans care what the exact speeds and lap times are in comparison to other forms of motorsport...they just want a good race, but not so slow that they couldn't help but be impressed.
 
NASCAR and Indycar in particular are making serious increases to the performance of the cars. F1 is not.

It's easy to have a "serious increase in performance" when you're running spec series using decade-old technology. That applies especially to Indycar which until last year used a very old Dallara chassis.

F1 suffers from diminishing returns as well as a focus on keeping things safe. On top of that, the recent focus has also been on keeping costs down and attracting manufacturers and more sponsors - which means greener or more road-relevant technology such as V6 turbos and KERS.
 
I too would like to have faster cars in F1, but there comes a point where you arrive at too fast. Today's aero package produces a lot more downforce than they have in years past. I support the V6 turbos, but the rules on how much boost you should run or how powerful it can be should be free-d up a bit. Faster cornering speeds aren't necessary, but having faster speeds between the corners would be neat.

Any higher speeds could be dangerous, but, thats the nature of the sport, is it not?

If you want high cornering speeds, go watch the Reno Air Race.
 
1993 - Grand Prix de Belgique - Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps

Pole position - Alain Prost - 1'47,571




2012 - Grand Prix de Belgique - Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps

Pole Position - Jenson Button - 1'47,573



Indeed, 20 years later and the cars are going slower. Why I don't mind that is beyond me ... :D
 
To be fair, the 'bus stop' chicane was very different back then. And the track was arguably quicker in that configuration. Likewise, 1993 saw some of the most technology advanced F1 cars ever produced. They certainly didn't have the advanced levels of aerodynamics that F1 cars do today, but they did have:
- Traction control
- A wider front and rear track
- Active suspensions
- 3.5 liter engines
- larger front and rear wings
 
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There wouldn't be competition or there will only be 3-4 teams at most if they weren't regulated.

Almost the same reason there are salary caps in most major sports.
 
Rally Group B comes to mind if F1 wasn't as regulated.
 
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