Mazda Finds 71% of Europeans Don't Want Full Self-Driving Cars

My point is - i don't want to ride on a fully automonous machine where it can lead to a driver death by a glitch or hacking.

You don't need an autonomous car for a driver to die by glitch or hacking. Anton Yelchin's recent death is a good example of the former.

Rather then seeing a machine making choice to kill which pedestrians - i rather crash my car on the sidewalk where there are no people around to evade killing pedestrians on the street rather than making the machine choosing to kill which one near the traffic light.

Er, you're not getting it.

If there's a situation where you'd be able to spot a bit of sidewalk to crash your car without pedestrian casualties, then so can an autonomous car.
 
You don't need an autonomous car for a driver to die by glitch or hacking. Anton Yelchin's recent death is a good example of the former.



Er, you're not getting it.

If there's a situation where you'd be able to spot a bit of sidewalk to crash your car without pedestrian casualties, then so can an autonomous car.
Fine then ... once a certain person witness a death by an automonus car glitch for one of his dear people or multiple people or a massive world wide glitch or terrorist hacking then i doubt he'll or they'll curse the day the automonus cars were made.
 
And think about all the people who don't care about driving at all. They buy whatever generobox they want because they like the colour and they're all over the place because driving is the least important task they have (way behind texting, make up, eating a burger). They do 40mph in a 60 zone, a 40 zone, a 30 zone and a 20 zone - so you get stuck behind them on the quick road, then they nick off at warp six through town and you catch them back up on the quick road on the other side and get stuck behind them again. Get them into autonomous cars and they're happy... and you're happy.

I know exactly who you mean. I think they drive a pink MAZDA Roadster judging by my experience in the last week :lol:

I would wish it to be optional. Buy we live in an increasing nanny state, so it won't be. As soon as it can be legislated and the technology is satisfactory, I predict human driving will become illegal worldwide.

Meanwhile, 1 in 7 visits to accident and emergency units in the UK are alcohol related and they are planning to roll out "DRUNK TANKS" country wide.

I personally think the number of deaths would have kept coming down if it weren't for the increase in people driving drunk/stoned or particularly using their ****ing mobile phone. But that's just my opinion on where the priorities should lie.
 
I would wish it to be optional. Buy we live in an increasing nanny state, so it won't be. As soon as it can be legislated and the technology is satisfactory, I predict human driving will become illegal worldwide.
That's not likely. We've had level 2 cars for a decade, and only now is level 2 autonomy making it into safety testing. Some carmakers have agreed between themselves to have level 2 as standard in some territories (USA, Europe) from 2022, but it's not a legal requirement - and some markets, like South-East Asia, still don't even have airbags. Meanwhile level 3/4 (the distinction is a bit blurry) cars are not even legal to use on the roads and they are undergoing testing either on private roads or on public roads by special dispensation from local authorities. Audi has a level 3 system called Traffic Jam Assist on the next A8, but at present it's not actually legal to use it anywhere...

Legislation just doesn't keep up with technology. In fact even insurers aren't sure what to do with anything above level 2 - just look at all the Tesla Autopilot crashes. Autonomous cars won't be common any time soon, and they certainly won't be mandatory for a very, very long time.
 
It feels like the notion of car ownership is on the way out anyway.

It's basically become a commodity, something that can be easily disposed of when no longer required. Very few seem to actually own a car because they want to.

If autonomy splits those who want to drive away from those who don't, fine by me.

??? Where do you live ? Cars always sell , motorsport is dying though .
 
That said...

The reason we're fairly static on road deaths is that we're pretty much at the limits of what we can do to prevent injury once a crash has happened. The biggest drop was with the three-point safety belt. Second was the supplementary restrain system (SRS... airbags to you and me). At around the same time we got US NCAP (via the NHTSA), Euro NCAP and such providing a cold, hard, scientific assessment of the effectiveness of crash safety structures. That's essentially driven us down to the point we're at today, along with standard safety aids like ABS and ESP - which are basically electronic driver assists that take a level of control away from our ham feet to prevent us from hurting ourselves. It's marginal gains at this point, with some manufacturers popping in whiplash protection, some looking to prevent rollovers, new crash tests that are harder for the cars to dissipate energy from.

But we can't really do much more during and after a crash any more. I spoke to Euro NCAP in March about this, and they're pretty much at that point themselves. The only way to drive the numbers down further now is preventing crashes from happening in the first place.


Step one is autonomous emergency braking (AEB). That's mandatory in Europe from next year and basically prevents you from driving into the back of the car in front (or, if you're going sodding fast, slows you down and reduces the impact), or pedestrians, cyclists and suchlike. That's likely to have a major effect on "slightly injured" stats. And if you think that sounds like something a self-driving car would do, you're right; it's a level 2 autonomy function. There are a number of other level 2 functions - adaptive cruise control, park assist, active lane keeping - that are getting pretty common but are arguably not quite as safety-oriented as AEB (they can prevent prangs, but their main goal is to carry out ordinary driving functions autonomously without increasing risk; AEB's main goal is to prevent prangs). Tesla Auto Pilot is basically a level 2 system.

If we want fewer road deaths, cars with some level of autonomy are now the only way to achieve it.


There are, of course, other benefits to (level 4/5) autonomous cars, as @Danoff and @Venari mention earlier. I used to do a ~5hr commute twice a week, from about 5.30pm-11pm one way and about 4pm-10pm the other. It was 320 miles of constant motorway (with only two places where I might have to slow for traffic lights) and 6 miles of marginal interest before and after. It took a giant chunk out of the productive time I had for the week - time I could have used for a bit of working, a bit of reading, or a bit of Gran Turismo, that I instead had to use for the totally thrilling task of concentrating enough to drive at 70mph in a straight line on a 3-4 lane motorway. An autonomous car would have been great.

And think about all the people who don't care about driving at all. They buy whatever generobox they want because they like the colour and they're all over the place because driving is the least important task they have (way behind texting, make up, eating a burger). They do 40mph in a 60 zone, a 40 zone, a 30 zone and a 20 zone - so you get stuck behind them on the quick road, then they nick off at warp six through town and you catch them back up on the quick road on the other side and get stuck behind them again. Get them into autonomous cars and they're happy... and you're happy.

But who wants less deaths ? If people are dangerous and can't drive , it's not my business at all . You can't impose me autonomous cars if there are reckless drivers out there . As i said , they should give the option to choose if they manage create self driving cars .
 
But who wants less deaths ?
Pretty much everyone. I mean several manufacturers are on record as aiming for zero deaths for occupants of their vehicles, most notably Volvo. Volvo's target is no deaths in a Volvo by 2020.

The current road deaths total in Europe is pretty low, as I've stated several times in this thread, and unlikely to go any lower without preventing the accidents in the first place. It's not so low in other places. In the USA road deaths are more than twice as common both by population (11.5/100,000 to 5.8/100,000) and per billion vehicle miles (13/bvm to 5.6/bvm), and that's not even a particularly dangerous country for road deaths.

If people are dangerous and can't drive , it's not my business at all . You can't impose me autonomous cars if there are reckless drivers out there . As i said , they should give the option to choose if they manage create self driving cars .
At no point have I suggested making autonomous cars mandatory, and at several points I've stated that this is unlikely at any point in the near future.
 
Fine then ... once a certain person witness a death by an automonus car glitch for one of his dear people or multiple people or a massive world wide glitch or terrorist hacking then i doubt he'll or they'll curse the day the automonus cars were made.

Just like people swore off the automobile in its infancy. Or planes after 9-11.
 
I mean several manufacturers are on record as aiming for zero deaths for occupants of their vehicles, most notably Volvo.
Ah, Volvo--the nice Swedes. Unlike Ikea who just want to squish children with sensibly-priced, assemble-it-yourself furniture...

...

...

:lol:
 
Just like people swore off the automobile in its infancy. Or planes after 9-11.
Imagine over 100.000.000 automonus deaths by a push of a button by the hacker or a glitch in 1 min - compared to 50 years of human faults for cars accidents.
That is 100x worse than both nuclear bombs on Hiroshima & Nagasaki.
Pick all of the planes in the world to make over a thousand 9-11s ... casualties may not even hit 1 million.
9-11 case were manually operated - so the hate should be directed to the terrorists - if it was fully autopilot which caused the incident - then the hate should be directed to the technology engineering for not allowing a human pilot to take controls in case of a computer fault or a hack by allowing human pilot to cut off connections of autopilot to manually operate the plane.
Those who swore off automobiles - we all know that they should direct their hate to the less safe vehicles & drivers - not the automobile itself.
Accidents can happen even on the horse carriage days where horses steps on the victims crushing their bones accidentally.
But it's a whole different story when the automobile is fully automated when a hack or glitch is in place.
I hope my point was understandable <:)
 
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A world wide glitch / hacking automonus cars is 100x worse than both nuclear bombs on Hiroshima & Nagasaki.
Imagine over 100.000.000 automonus deaths by a push of a button by the hacker or a glitch in 1 min - compared to 50 years of human faults for cars accidents.
Pick all of the planes in the world to make over a thousand 9-11s ... casualties may not even hit 1 million.
Not being a passenger in an autonomous vehicle during that hypothetical event won't prevent you from being victimized by it, and may even put you in more danger if you're a pedestrian hit by an autonomous vehicle whose passengers are far more protected.
 
A world wide glitch / hacking automonus cars is 100x worse than both nuclear bombs on Hiroshima & Nagasaki.
Imagine over 100.000.000 automonus deaths by a push of a button by the hacker or a glitch in 1 min - compared to 50 years of human faults for cars accidents.
Pick all of the planes in the world to make over a thousand 9-11s ... casualties may not even hit 1 million.

Do you realize how implausible that scenario is?

First, due to time zones there is never that many cars on the road at any given time. I don't have any solid numbers, but I'm guessing even at the busiest time in whatever part of the world that is there are only a small fraction of the total number of vehicles on the road. Plus after the initial attack it would be rather easy to put a hold on all vehicle traffic, meaning deaths would be rather small in number.

Secondly, in the highly unlikely event something like that would actually occur you would need everyone to be going at high enough speeds to cause that high number of fatalities, which would be unlikely as the more traffic there is the slower they move.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm guessing we have a better chance surviving a visit from Vogons.
 
A world wide glitch / hacking automonus cars is 100x worse than both nuclear bombs on Hiroshima & Nagasaki.
Imagine over 100.000.000 automonus deaths by a push of a button by the hacker or a glitch in 1 min - compared to 50 years of human faults for cars accidents.
Pick all of the planes in the world to make over a thousand 9-11s ... casualties may not even hit 1 million.

You know, if a hacker wanted to they could do the same thing with airplanes in theory. However, in practice, it's super difficult.

You can bet once autonomous cars are more common, they'll be an entire section of a company dedicated to keeping them secure.
 
You know, if a hacker wanted to they could do the same thing with airplanes in theory. However, in practice, it's super difficult.

You can bet once autonomous cars are more common, they'll be an entire section of a company dedicated to keeping them secure.
Even the highest security in the world is hackable if a team of hackers worked together to break through the firewalls.
You can't guarantee that it's super difficult if the hackers are professionals enough to even hack satellites.
Do you realize how implausible that scenario is?

First, due to time zones there is never that many cars on the road at any given time. I don't have any solid numbers, but I'm guessing even at the busiest time in whatever part of the world that is there are only a small fraction of the total number of vehicles on the road. Plus after the initial attack it would be rather easy to put a hold on all vehicle traffic, meaning deaths would be rather small in number.

Secondly, in the highly unlikely event something like that would actually occur you would need everyone to be going at high enough speeds to cause that high number of fatalities, which would be unlikely as the more traffic there is the slower they move.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm guessing we have a better chance surviving a visit from Vogons.
A better chance is possible but there is still a danger.
They could lock the cars wirelessly ( similar to KARR from Knight Rider ) and force the cars to go at higher speeds & crashing any possible fatal places like hills - pedestrians & deep water.
Also - hacking can be done multiple times at the selected places time zones for the perfect attack to take place.
Even if they're in their homes - they can start up the cars ( just like in fast & furious movie ) to move it to make an example of search & destroy mode against any human involved in the scene or simply crashing or breaking through the buildings to kill the victims inside.
Not being a passenger in an autonomous vehicle during that hypothetical event won't prevent you from being victimized by it, and may even put you in more danger if you're a pedestrian hit by an autonomous vehicle whose passengers are far more protected.
Exactly but still the passangers could be killed depending on the speed & the place of the crash.
 
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Imagine over 100.000.000 automonus deaths by a push of a button by the hacker or a glitch in 1 min - compared to 50 years of human faults for cars accidents.
That is 100x worse than both nuclear bombs on Hiroshima & Nagasaki.
Pick all of the planes in the world to make over a thousand 9-11s ... casualties may not even hit 1 million.
9-11 case were manually operated - so the hate should be directed to the terrorists - if it was fully autopilot which caused the incident - then the hate should be directed to the technology engineering for not allowing a human pilot to take controls in case of a computer fault or a hack by allowing human pilot to cut off connections of autopilot to manually operate the plane.
Those who swore off automobiles - we all know that they should direct their hate to the less safe vehicles & drivers - not the automobile itself.
Accidents can happen even on the horse carriage days where horses steps on the victims crushing their bones accidentally.
But it's a whole different story when the automobile is fully automated when a hack or glitch is in place.
I hope my point was understandable <:)
Are you alright mate?
 
Exactly but still the passangers could be killed depending on the speed & the place of the crash.
Those same passengers ("occupants" suits the context better) can be killed if their current, non-autonomous vehicle already equipped with drive-by-wire functionality (removal of a mechanical link between throttle, brake and steering systems) were to be hacked and, say, told to accelerate to 120mph and steer to full lock (this wouldn't likely result in a roll, but it would at the very least compromise grip to the point that correction isn't possible, or compromise components leading to the same result).

Of course, you could be driving along in a 1983 Chevrolet Malibu (or any of a considerable number of makes and models), a vehicle lacking any form of drive-by-wire functionality, and still be affected by this incident should said non-autonomous vehicle careen into you.
 
I'm baffled why this Doomsday scenario can only possibly affect autonomous cars (and how it can affect them in such a manner, unless they're all connected to the internet).

Why hasn't it happened with autonomous trains yet? Or aeroplanes? Or nuclear power stations? Or nuclear missiles? Are the hackers capable of busting through all the firewalls and launching a simultaneous global attack, but just waiting the fifty or sixty years needed for autonomous cars to become legal and commonplace for some reason?
 
Even the highest security in the world is hackable if a team of hackers worked together to break through the firewalls.
You can't guarantee that it's super difficult if the hackers are professionals enough to even hack satellites.

But do they? No, they don't. If they did then they'd already done so with airplanes.
 
I'm baffled why this Doomsday scenario can only possibly affect autonomous cars (and how it can affect them in such a manner, unless they're all connected to the internet).

Why hasn't it happened with autonomous trains yet? Or aeroplanes? Or nuclear power stations? Or nuclear missiles? Are the hackers capable of busting through all the firewalls and launching a simultaneous global attack, but just waiting the fifty or sixty years needed for autonomous cars to become legal and commonplace for some reason?

Sounds like Maximum Overdrive all over again but with hackers. 80's Horror come to life? Really?
 
Sounds like Maximum Overdrive all over again but with hackers. 80's Horror come to life? Really?

As long as it has a rockin sound track too :)

I think the alarm bells are ringing due to conspiracy nuts, pretty soon it's gonna be "you'll give in and start using these cars only to find yourself speeding towards a fema camp and you won't be able to stop it, mark my words".
 
I'm guessing we have a better chance surviving a visit from Vogons.
We won't survive it, but Earth will be rebuilt and life reinstated to its state just prior to the event, all without us knowing.

The odds of that having already happened are still better than this.
 
They could lock the cars wirelessly ( similar to KARR from Knight Rider ) and force the cars to go at higher speeds & crashing any possible fatal places like hills - pedestrians & deep water.

In order for that to happen they would not only have to hack into the system and completely change the programming. Not to mention even if cars become 100% autonomous they will likely have a manual override killswitch.

Also - hacking can be done multiple times at the selected places time zones for the perfect attack to take place.

That's not the point. The point is if you just watched someone walk into a hallway full of booby traps, you're probably not going to go down that hallway.

Even if they're in their homes - they can start up the cars ( just like in fast & furious movie ) to move it to make an example of search & destroy mode against any human involved in the scene or simply crashing or breaking through the buildings to kill the victims inside.

Are they controlling each car individually or something? :odd:

Of course we are also ignoring that anyone that's able to do this could find much easier ways to throw society into chaos, cutting oil off for instance. Hell, they could be doing that right now so why would they wait until they can bring a terrible Stephen King movie to life?
 
Are you alright mate?
Yes - healthy & well :)

I'm baffled why this Doomsday scenario can only possibly affect autonomous cars (and how it can affect them in such a manner, unless they're all connected to the internet).

Why hasn't it happened with autonomous trains yet? Or aeroplanes? Or nuclear power stations? Or nuclear missiles? Are the hackers capable of busting through all the firewalls and launching a simultaneous global attack, but just waiting the fifty or sixty years needed for autonomous cars to become legal and commonplace for some reason?
Speculated reasons :
1- Trains are necessary for them to travel.
2- Aeroplanes are important for faster travel - destroying it all will only decrease the chances for escape from a certain places.
3- Nuclear power stations are necessary for electricity.
4- Nuclear missiles will not help because it'll make it more difficult for them to be safer around highly radiated areas.

About nuclear missiles :
I heard it happened before - but the culprit was captured at the last moments before initiating the missile/s.

About automonous cars :
Science is advancing very quickly so for them to wait 50 or 60 years can be an exaggeration if it was possible to happen in less than 20 years if not in about 10 years.
Let's not forget that the companies are racing against the clock to make fully automonus vehicles a reality.

But do they? No, they don't. If they did then they'd already done so with airplanes.
My speculation is that they don't need it yet or that it won't help them much for their goals.
Let's not forget that planes are important for faster travel.

In order for that to happen they would not only have to hack into the system and completely change the programming. Not to mention even if cars become 100% autonomous they will likely have a manual override killswitch.



That's not the point. The point is if you just watched someone walk into a hallway full of booby traps, you're probably not going to go down that hallway.



Are they controlling each car individually or something? :odd:

Of course we are also ignoring that anyone that's able to do this could find much easier ways to throw society into chaos, cutting oil off for instance. Hell, they could be doing that right now so why would they wait until they can bring a terrible Stephen King movie to life?
Override killswitch ... If you can realize on the road that the car was hacked in a split of a second before it puts you in danger while you're at high speed then the driver is either super human or a psychic :lol:
About changing the programming - if it was possible to update the OS like Samsung did to evade phones batteries exploding then it's possible to do so with automonus cars like Tesla did to improve the automonus software, so the hacker can simply make a fake update for that to happen on multiple automated cars X)
About booby traps - my point was that the automated cars can pick dangerous places as safe places by mistake just like that Tesla's construction walls accident where the car didn't detect the wall which caused the accident.
Hacker can play with the software by making fake update to the OS which can cause the cars to pick fatal places as safe places.
About cutting oil - it won't do them good if they can't have replacements of current machines to be used in the future which needs oil to be made again.
 
Speculated reasons :
1- Trains are necessary for them to travel.
2- Aeroplanes are important for faster travel - destroying it all will only decrease the chances for escape from a certain places.
So... hackers intent on causing 100 million dead human beings have all the capability of simultaneously crashing all trains or all aeroplanes, but don't because they need them to travel...

... so instead they'll wait decades for autonomous cars to become mandatory (because they don't need cars to travel) and crash those?

What?

3- Nuclear power stations are necessary for electricity.
They account for 20% of the USA's electricity, and in 2017 were behind solar and wind in terms of the power produced. That aside, that's not a reason why hackers intent on causing 100 million dead human beings and have the capability to hack through any firewall and cause simultaneous meltdowns at nuclear power stations haven't done it yet, despite at least three decades to do so.
4- Nuclear missiles will not help because it'll make it more difficult for them to be safer around highly radiated areas.
Simultaneous worldwide nuclear launches would guarantee a massive death toll, like the 100 million the hackers are intent on causing and have the capability to achieve by hacking through any firewall. And it's intensely easy to avoid where they would strike - just don't be in Europe, Russia, the USA, China, India, Pakistan, either Korea, the Middle East (especially Israel and Iran), or Japan. South Africa and Brazil would be good places to start.

I mean, you know that hackers just need a phone line and can do all of this from anywhere in the world, right?

So far, the reasons you've given for hackers intent on causing 100 million deaths and the capability to hack through any firewall to cause them not doing so with trains, aeroplanes, nuclear power stations or nuclear missiles amount to "*shrug* I unno". So why would they do it when autonomous cars are commonplace?


It rather sounds like you're just terrified of terrorists, or you've read three too many books about an electronic apocalypse. Why are the invincible hackers not wiping out banks, or Amazon, or crashing any other AI, or doing anything with all the internet-enabled devices we have to kill hundreds of millions of people right now if they can?

About nuclear missiles :
I heard it happened before - but the culprit was captured at the last moments before initiating the missile/s.
Ah, "I heard it happened before". Well that's concrete and completely watertight.

[Citation needed]
About automonous cars :
Science is advancing very quickly so for them to wait 50 or 60 years can be an exaggeration if it was possible to happen in less than 20 years if not in about 10 years.
Let's not forget that the companies are racing against the clock to make fully automonus vehicles a reality.
"Science" (technology) may be advancing quickly, but law isn't.

At present we've had level 2 autonomous cars (can steer and control pedals, but you need to keep your hands ready on the wheel) on the roads for around a decade. When they crash, we still don't know what to do about them, because the law hasn't caught up to them yet. In ten years!

A level 3 autonomous car (like level 2, but you don't need to keep your hands on the wheel) will be introduced next year. It's not legal to use its ability anywhere in the world yet (and its ability is to execute lane changes, braking and acceleration at speeds of up to 37mph, only on roads where there are two or more lanes and traffic is divided from oncoming traffic by a physical barrier).

Level 3 and Level 4 (fully autonomous within geographical confines) autonomous cars are in a testing phase, and have been for ten years, on private roads. Some, like the Navya shuttle bus, are allowed on public roads by special dispensation from local authorities. None are permitted free testing countrywide in any nation on Earth. There are no level 5 autonomous cars (fully autonomous, no driver or driving controls) beyond a couple of prototypes claimed by Ford.

Autonomous cars have been mooted as far back as Futurama, at the 1939 World's Fair. Probably further. Manufacturers have been working on them since the 1980s. It's 2018 and you can't use a hands-free system legally anywhere on Earth yet, because the law can't keep up with the technology - and it's had eighty years to get used to it, and more than thirty years to seriously get used to it - but it still can't work out what to do when a level 2 Tesla autopilot system has a prang.

We might be getting a production flying car before we get a production autonomous car, and flying cars are one of the longest running jokes about vaporware.


Nor is the market keeping up. Do you know what the first hybrid car was? It was the Porsche Mixte in 1900. It took nearly 90 years to get to a production-ready hybrid car, the Audi 100 Duo. After that it took a decade for an actual production hybrid, which was the Toyota Prius in 1997, or the Honda Insight in 1999 if you weren't Japanese. You can take that approximate timeline as a guide for autonomous cars if you like - after all, they've progressed at a similar pace - but we're looking at the market. It's now twenty years since the first production hybrid-electric vehicle, and how many do you think we're buying? Over here in the super-progressive, liberal UK, they make up five percent of the market now. Yes, five.

20 years since the HEV was introduced, they make up 5% of new car sales. They're on the rise, but only at the expense of diesel so far - petrol seems to be fairly static. If they continue rise at the same rate, it means they won't match petrol until 2025 and won't even represent the totality of the market by 2030, when a bunch of governments around the world want to ban standalone internal combustion (ICE) cars. And that's only new car sales. It's going to take another ten years after that to get the majority of the older ICE cars off the road.

That's 140 years from a functioning invention to ~100% representation of hybrid cars.

So far, autonomous cars are treading the same path. And, thanks to the unique nature of who's responsible for the driving and the ability of lawmakers to vacillate, they haven't even reached the stage where they can be tested on public roads freely, never mind actually sold to people. And then it's going to take decades for the market to accept them, and decades more until they can be mandated - if indeed they ever will be.


I think fifty years is optimistic for mass production and purchase of autonomous cars.

But don't tell me, you heard it happened before...
 
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Imagine over 100.000.000 automonus deaths by a push of a button by the hacker or a glitch in 1 min - compared to 50 years of human faults for cars accidents.
That is 100x worse than both nuclear bombs on Hiroshima & Nagasaki.
Pick all of the planes in the world to make over a thousand 9-11s ... casualties may not even hit 1 million.
9-11 case were manually operated - so the hate should be directed to the terrorists - if it was fully autopilot which caused the incident - then the hate should be directed to the technology engineering for not allowing a human pilot to take controls in case of a computer fault or a hack by allowing human pilot to cut off connections of autopilot to manually operate the plane.
Those who swore off automobiles - we all know that they should direct their hate to the less safe vehicles & drivers - not the automobile itself.
Accidents can happen even on the horse carriage days where horses steps on the victims crushing their bones accidentally.
But it's a whole different story when the automobile is fully automated when a hack or glitch is in place.
I hope my point was understandable <:)
WHAT IF THEY ALL JUST DROVE INTO THE SEA?!!!

Or possibly not.
 
Even the highest security in the world is hackable if a team of hackers worked together to break through the firewalls.
You can't guarantee that it's super difficult if the hackers are professionals enough to even hack satellites.

I think you've been watching too much TV. Lol, break through the firewalls.

What if the control systems aren't networked to anything external? Pretty tough to hack then, right? You'd have to actually go to each individual vehicle and plug in to hack it. Good luck doing that to 100 million cars.

At which point, if it was a normal car the "hacker" would have just cut your brake lines and gone home for a cup of tea. Oh look, all cars are vulnerable to physical "hacking". WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE! QUICK, SOMEONE BRING THE CLOGS SO THAT WE CAN SAVE OURSELVES FROM THIS DEVILISH NIGHTMARE OF TECHNOLOGY! LUDD FOREVER! MUSK NEVER! BURN THE WITCHES!
 
I think you've been watching too much TV.
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So... hackers intent on causing 100 million dead human beings have all the capability of simultaneously crashing all trains or all aeroplanes, but don't because they need them to travel...

... so instead they'll wait decades for autonomous cars to become mandatory (because they don't need cars to travel) and crash those?

What?


They account for 20% of the USA's electricity, and in 2017 were behind solar and wind in terms of the power produced. That aside, that's not a reason why hackers intent on causing 100 million dead human beings and have the capability to hack through any firewall and cause simultaneous meltdowns at nuclear power stations haven't done it yet, despite at least three decades to do so.

Simultaneous worldwide nuclear launches would guarantee a massive death toll, like the 100 million the hackers are intent on causing and have the capability to achieve by hacking through any firewall. And it's intensely easy to avoid where they would strike - just don't be in Europe, Russia, the USA, China, India, Pakistan, either Korea, the Middle East (especially Israel and Iran), or Japan. South Africa and Brazil would be good places to start.

I mean, you know that hackers just need a phone line and can do all of this from anywhere in the world, right?

So far, the reasons you've given for hackers intent on causing 100 million deaths and the capability to hack through any firewall to cause them not doing so with trains, aeroplanes, nuclear power stations or nuclear missiles amount to "*shrug* I unno". So why would they do it when autonomous cars are commonplace?


It rather sounds like you're just terrified of terrorists, or you've read three too many books about an electronic apocalypse. Why are the invincible hackers not wiping out banks, or Amazon, or crashing any other AI, or doing anything with all the internet-enabled devices we have to kill hundreds of millions of people right now if they can?


Ah, "I heard it happened before". Well that's concrete and completely watertight.

[Citation needed]

"Science" (technology) may be advancing quickly, but law isn't.

At present we've had level 2 autonomous cars (can steer and control pedals, but you need to keep your hands ready on the wheel) on the roads for around a decade. When they crash, we still don't know what to do about them, because the law hasn't caught up to them yet. In ten years!

A level 3 autonomous car (like level 2, but you don't need to keep your hands on the wheel) will be introduced next year. It's not legal to use its ability anywhere in the world yet (and its ability is to execute lane changes, braking and acceleration at speeds of up to 37mph, only on roads where there are two or more lanes and traffic is divided from oncoming traffic by a physical barrier).

Level 3 and Level 4 (fully autonomous within geographical confines) autonomous cars are in a testing phase, and have been for ten years, on private roads. Some, like the Navya shuttle bus, are allowed on public roads by special dispensation from local authorities. None are permitted free testing countrywide in any nation on Earth. There are no level 5 autonomous cars (fully autonomous, no driver or driving controls) beyond a couple of prototypes claimed by Ford.

Autonomous cars have been mooted as far back as Futurama, at the 1939 World's Fair. Probably further. Manufacturers have been working on them since the 1980s. It's 2018 and you can't use a hands-free system legally anywhere on Earth yet, because the law can't keep up with the technology - and it's had eighty years to get used to it, and more than thirty years to seriously get used to it - but it still can't work out what to do when a level 2 Tesla autopilot system has a prang.

We might be getting a production flying car before we get a production autonomous car, and flying cars are one of the longest running jokes about vaporware.


Nor is the market keeping up. Do you know what the first hybrid car was? It was the Porsche Mixte in 1900. It took nearly 90 years to get to a production-ready hybrid car, the Audi 100 Duo. After that it took a decade for an actual production hybrid, which was the Toyota Prius in 1997, or the Honda Insight in 1999 if you weren't Japanese. You can take that approximate timeline as a guide for autonomous cars if you like - after all, they've progressed at a similar pace - but we're looking at the market. It's now twenty years since the first production hybrid-electric vehicle, and how many do you think we're buying? Over here in the super-progressive, liberal UK, they make up five percent of the market now. Yes, five.

20 years since the HEV was introduced, they make up 5% of new car sales. They're on the rise, but only at the expense of diesel so far - petrol seems to be fairly static. If they continue rise at the same rate, it means they won't match petrol until 2025 and won't even represent the totality of the market by 2030, when a bunch of governments around the world want to ban standalone internal combustion (ICE) cars. And that's only new car sales. It's going to take another ten years after that to get the majority of the older ICE cars off the road.

That's 140 years from a functioning invention to ~100% representation of hybrid cars.

So far, autonomous cars are treading the same path. And, thanks to the unique nature of who's responsible for the driving and the ability of lawmakers to vacillate, they haven't even reached the stage where they can be tested on public roads freely, never mind actually sold to people. And then it's going to take decades for the market to accept them, and decades more until they can be mandated - if indeed they ever will be.


I think fifty years is optimistic for mass production and purchase of autonomous cars.

But don't tell me, you heard it happened before...
Well i didn't mention nuclear stations - aeroplanes or trains in the first place.
(Slip) mentioned 9-11 where the conversation shifted to a different direction.
My main point that the automonus cars are hackable which is possible world wide if it's connected to the internet or possible wireless hacking like they can do now with current cars like ignition switch & doors unlock.
Later the talk shifted to nuclear stations - trains & planes which i didn't do in the first place but still answered for their ability to do so - that's all.
My main point is the automonus cars only.
There was a word which i read somewhere that there was a car assassination which was implemented by an unknown or maybe expected source.
Which can be easier with automonus cars if the OS was updated with wrong data by hackers to change the software without pluging cables manually.

I think you've been watching too much TV. Lol, break through the firewalls.

What if the control systems aren't networked to anything external? Pretty tough to hack then, right? You'd have to actually go to each individual vehicle and plug in to hack it. Good luck doing that to 100 million cars.

At which point, if it was a normal car the "hacker" would have just cut your brake lines and gone home for a cup of tea. Oh look, all cars are vulnerable to physical "hacking". WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE! QUICK, SOMEONE BRING THE CLOGS SO THAT WE CAN SAVE OURSELVES FROM THIS DEVILISH NIGHTMARE OF TECHNOLOGY! LUDD FOREVER! MUSK NEVER! BURN THE WITCHES!
I think you missed the point.
No need to plugin with cables.
They can upload a wrong OS update to the cars to change the system ( hence Tesla's cars which their system is updatable )
Before we talk about TV - remember that many science fiction stories did actually happened now.
Cyborgs - flying cars - automated cars - high intelligence AIs enough to match human brain & so on.
Only time will tell if all what i mentioned is true or not.
While i don't want to see all of those disasters but if people understimate the possibilities of danger - karma will catch up.
So what i mean is - better be careful than being easy going.
 
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