McLAREN F1 LM

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Originally posted by Famine
As a mild aside, all but three Formula One teams are based in Britain (I'm not sure about BAR, Asian Minardi are Australian (?) and Ferrari... well... :D)
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correction BAR have retired from f1 racing they sold out everything in a massive auction not long ago on www.dovebid.com and when i say everythingi mean EVERYTHING :rolleyes: just some examples were a full size wind tunnel!, 3 complete BAR f1 cars, 10 v10 f1 engines and loadsa suovenirs:eek:
 
Mini and RollsRoyce are OWNED by BMW
Aston Martin, Jaguar and Land Rover are owned by ford
Vauxhall is Opel which is owned by General Motors.
Bentley is owned by volkswagen.

why don't you look this up?

By owned I mean they own majority stake.
All the british major manufacturers are IN FACT owned by foreign firms.

Rover? BMW and Honda tried to save its ass, and its engines and models were all based on Hondas. Not the other way around.

And the rest of the "manufacturers" you mention are not even famous or a standard high volume competitor. They just make homologated go-kart-like cars which don't even have a radio or aircon -hardly a car.

The WRC teams of subaru and mitsubishi are infact based in the UK but most of the actual R&D for the car come straight from Japan. Most of the development comes from Subaru Technica International (STi) based in Japan, not prodrive (just a regional tuner for UK). Ralliart was FOUNDED by mitsubishi in 1984, and are present globally and BASED in Japan.

Have you ever been outside the UK or what? British cars account for alot less than 1% of the Global marketshare!
 
Originally posted by revaddict
And the rest of the "manufacturers" you mention are not even famous or a standard high volume competitor. They just make homologated go-kart-like cars which don't even have a radio or aircon -hardly a car.
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TVR AND Lotus both outsell Ferrari and Lamborghini by quite a margin. And Lotus are pretty famous... And comfy inside too.
 
TVRs have radios as standard now, you know... :)

And yes, Lotus is VERY famous, F1 as we know it today could possibly be down (in part at least) to the late Mr Colin Chapman himself (he decided the engine was better off behind the driver, he engineered better chassis and suspension systems for 60's GP cars, which kicked ass by the way)

I was fairly amazed to find out that the big Aston has Ford mondeo engines welded together, but then I read that Cosworth did the job and all was forgiven, nearly...

Oh yeah, Lotus is also planning to use a similar aluminium chassis to the one Aston Martin are developing, to create a wider model range than just the Elise and Esprit. Dunno who started development first, or if any parts were shared though...

Enough waffle methinks
 
Originally posted by revaddict

Rover? BMW and Honda tried to save its ass
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Whoa there!

BMW bought Rover for two things only: Mini and the Rover V8 engine. Then spat them back out again. Rovers aren't that bad as cars either, just that they seem to have a bad reputation for some reason. We had a Rover 820si for a while, and yes the K-series engine is pretty good, and the ride quality and such was pretty impressive considering it's value. The same goes for the (relatively) new 75.


Rover and honda shared technology, rover got Vtec (or Vvt-i) and Honda got an engine for it's civic in the 80's

Oh yeah and Lotus is switching to toyota engines for the new chassis.
 
I'd heard that the Toyota engine - the 1.8i VVTi Celica engine - was to be used in S2 Elises for the American market, for emissions purposes, but sticking with the Rover K-series everywhere else... *shrug*

I lose track of where Minardi are - in fact I believe they're currently called "European Minardi" (my bad), but based in Australia (Paul Stoddart, the team boss, is an Aussie), and funded by Malaysian businesses... *more shrugs*

I hate Rover vehicles with a passion normally only reserved for Vauxhall :D

BTW I've just started wondering what the market share for American cars outside the USA is. In the UK we only get the Jeep Cherokee/Wrangler/Grand Cherokee, Chrysler Voyager/Grand Voyager (Americans would say Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan), Cadillac STS and the Dodge Neon and Viper (if you can get one). Chevrolet recently pulled out of the UK entirely, and all the American "owned" cars - the Fords and Vauxhalls - were designed in Europe or the UK and built there too...
 
Originally posted by ROAD_DOGG33J
So basicly you only get Dodge
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Or "DaimlerChrysler" as they're known these days...

"Yankee cars are OWNED by Germans hahahaha " - and so on :D
 
I guess America doesn't have any cars suitted for European roads.


Unless....somebody duplicates the Vitz
 
Originally posted by revaddict
But the fact is, its not uncommon to see sub 10-second supras.

However, The likes of a Mine's skyline, BeeR skyline, JUN evo or a HKS evo would trash a mclaren F1 on a track with turns, yes.
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Is it really fair to compare a stock car (F1) to a heavily modified race car? McLaren stopped making the F1s years ago and people may have expected the price to rise a little bit because the cars are so rare.

Production of the McLaren F1 drew to a close in May 1998, with a total production of 100 cars, made up as follows:

F1 - 64
F1 LM - 5
F1 GT - 3
GTR 95 - 9
GTR 96 - 9
GTR 97 - 10

For the F1, it requires a few moments thought to come to terms with the fact that only 64 of these exquisite cars will ever exist. Their rarity is guaranteed, and consequently, their value is likely to increase with time.

Most of the existing owners intend to keep their cars for their lifetime - some even intend to pass them on to their own children. But ,just occasionally, an F1 becomes available through McLarens facilitation service, which helps to place existing F1's with new owners.
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Sure it's a rich mans car, but if you can afford it, you could probably afford your house and support a familiy with relative ease. Some people would be happy to live in a small one bedroom flat but to own a £600,000 car because it makes them happy; or maybe they feel proud that they earnt the money to get them their dream car etc.
 
That's not strictly true though, is it?

The cars may be badged Ford, but they have little to do with the USA and are, but for one, never sold there.

We get the Ford Ka, StreetKa, Fiesta, Fusion, Focus, Mondeo, Maverick and Galaxy. As far as I'm aware, only the Focus has made it to American shores. All are designed by and funded by Ford Europe, and built within Europe's borders.

The only recent Ford USA car I can think of sold in Europe is the Explorer, and we don't get that anymore. The Cougar was a Ford Europe export to the US (where it was rebadged as "Mercury Cougar", for some reason.
 
You get all the SUV's though don't you? we don't get them, it's all about the most profitable market, Ford is still an American company, but I can believe they don't sell many in the US.
 
Nope - we got the Explorer for a short time (1998-2000 I think). The Maverick is a Ford Europe small-SUV, and the Fusion is a Ford Europe mini-SUV, based on the Fiesta. The Expedition won't come to the UK as, according to Ford USA "we do not think it would fit on the road".

Ultimately, Ford Europe are answerable to Ford USA, but they have an almost limitless degree of autonomy. Ford Europe's cars are now amongst the most reliable cars you can buy - the Focus blew everything else out of the water in recent German 3rd year roadworthiness tests (100% pass rate, only 0.3% with any detectable fault) and are mostly a delight to drive. Ask an American about Ford USA's cars and generally the answers is "Ford sucks"...
 
Originally posted by Famine
I'd heard that the Toyota engine - the 1.8i VVTi Celica engine - was to be used in S2 Elises for the American market, for emissions purposes, but sticking with the Rover K-series everywhere else... *shrug*

I lose track of where Minardi are - in fact I believe they're currently called "European Minardi" (my bad), but based in Australia (Paul Stoddart, the team boss, is an Aussie), and funded by Malaysian businesses... *more shrugs*

I hate Rover vehicles with a passion normally only reserved for Vauxhall :D

BTW I've just started wondering what the market share for American cars outside the USA is. In the UK we only get the Jeep Cherokee/Wrangler/Grand Cherokee, Chrysler Voyager/Grand Voyager (Americans would say Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan), Cadillac STS and the Dodge Neon and Viper (if you can get one). Chevrolet recently pulled out of the UK entirely, and all the American "owned" cars - the Fords and Vauxhalls - were designed in Europe or the UK and built there too...
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The Toyota 2zz-ge engine was selected for the lotus elise destined for the US market. I'd know because I drive a celica Tsport with the 1.8 VVTL-i 190hp engine. Very cool car.

For your information, here is some production figures...

2002

NORTH AMERICA - 9,017,582
USA - 5,016,306
Canada - 1,369,003
Brazil - 1,521,431

ASIA - 14,436,867
Japan - 8,618,728
South Korea - 2,651,273
China - 1,090,820

EUROPEAN UNION - 14,815,406
Germany - 5,123,238
France - 3,283,775
Spain - 2,266,902
UK - 1,628,020
Italy - 1,125,768

These are not exclusively numbers by National manufacturers but number of passenger vehicle produced in one country (by any manufacturer).

http://www.autoindustry.co.uk/statistics/production/world#cars

So now that we know the UK produces 1.6 million cars a year, lets look at who are the top producers:

Car production WITHIN the UK in 2001:
Nissan - 296,000
GM - 193,000
Peugeot - 186,000
MG Rover - 163,000
Toyota - 155,000
Land Rover - 139,000
Jaguar - 122,000
Ford - 72,000
BMW - 41,000

http://www.autoindustry.co.uk/statistics/key/production/uk_mph

As you can see, the MAJORITY of cars produced in the UK carries foreign badges, knowing that MG-rover, Jaguar and Land rover produces exclusively in the UK.

The world produced 41million cars in 2001. British car manufacturers produced roughly 450,000 cars, despite the majority being it being owned by foreign firms. do the math and you realise British brands produce merely just over 1% of the world production, and if you only count the British firms exclusively owned by British shareholders, the figure would presumably drop to around 0.1% (your so-called lotus, tvr and noble, and the rest).
 
So now that we know the UK produces 1.6 million cars a year, lets look at who are the top producers:

Car production WITHIN the UK in 2001:
Nissan - 296,000
GM - 193,000
Peugeot - 186,000
MG Rover - 163,000
Toyota - 155,000
Land Rover - 139,000
Jaguar - 122,000
Ford - 72,000
BMW - 41,000


I presume your calling Vauxall GM even though it's not, it's just owned by GM. Vauxhall is a British marque and you don't see any GM badged cars/trucks/SUV's over here. Also Vaxhall and Ford have increased production quite alot in the UK in the last year from what I've heard anyway.

Also there may not be as many car produced in the UK but take size of the UK into account as well if the UK had as many car plants as the US it would mess us up.

Finally the UK has the best sports car marque in my opinion and thats TVR, so I'm happy with British cars as long as we keep TVR as a British owned company.
 
Yes...

USA - 5,016,306, or 0.0185 cars per capita
UK - 1,628,020, or 0.0267 cars per capita
Japan - 8,618,728, or 0.0345 cars per capita

Vauxhall's Luton plant - the only "GM" owned production facility in the UK - closed in 2002. The largest car manufacturing facilities in the UK are Nissan (Sunderland) and Honda (Swindon) - two of the marques regularly in the top 10 for reliability and customer satisfaction. American plants on the other hand have a reputation for exactly the opposite - although American cars built in Mexico seem to behave... And when did Brazil become North American? :D
 
erm, i couldnt help notice all the claims about the fastest 0-60 production car.

I may be wrong, and the guiness book of world records says i am too, but ill explain anyway.

The records set in the guiness book of world records (GBWR) arent really factual in a sense, im pretty sure you have to apply to the administration of the gbwr to set a record, this means companies who really dont feel to apply arent in their although they may legitemately break the record set. Having said this i have to mention the Dauer 962 Roadcar. This car has a recorded 0-60 of 2.6 seconds (pretty sure its certified by tests). This makes it much faster than the RS200, and this car if im not mistaken was a "production" car. It was built to spec just as the mclaren was. I cant really say it was "standard", but then again neither was the RS200, dont really see much of them driving about do you? The mclaren supposedly was a production car and im sure it was the same type of production as the Dauer 962 unless im mistaken, in whuich case can someone update me and let me know. So does this make the Dauer 962 the fastest 0-60? o and topseed i think? 402.3kph, which translates in to about 250mph give or take 1mph? this was the ultimate car then?
1994-962-Le-Mans-4.jpg
 
Technically speaking, you would be correct - but the Dauer is a modified Porsche 962, to the best of my knowledge. I'll yell daan - this is his kind of thing. I think the Dauer wouldn't count because when it rolled out of the factory, it was a Porsche - then it was wheeled into another one. The McLaren and RS200 Evo were tested in the condition they were in when they first emerged newborn into the world. The F1 LM isn't classified as "production" because the run was limited to 5 - the RS200 wasn't, but was supposed to be "more than 200" (in reality far less were made) and the McLaren F1 was supposed to be 300 initially, with only 100 actually seeing light of day.

I'll add on that you can only get into the Guinness Book of Records if a Guinness World Records observer/adjudicator is there to observe/adjudicate (damn... :D). The requirement for a 0-60mph run is three runs, the slowest of which is discarded. The remaining two are averaged. The land speed record follows a similar vein - 2 measured flying 1 miles, which are averaged.

Many supposed high-performance cars won't survive three all-out launches from rest - the RS200 did because it was designed to last (it wouldn't be much use as a rally car if it didn't).
 
i used to think that was the case too, a modifies porsche 962, but its the old RUF story all over again, they also have their own verison of the EB110, its just an absolute beast. They have their own rights to the car, so technically its their own car.
 
AFAIK Ruf actually own the rights to the body shape (hence their inclusion in GT3, whereas the Nomad Diablo was ejected, as the Nomad team don't own the rights to the body shape). I believe that it's not a case of a Porsche 911 coming from Porsche and being ripped apart and rebuilt, but of a Ruf being built from the ground up - with a few Porsche parts...

The Dauer, on the other hand, used to be a Porsche to start with. I think... *crosses fingers*
 
For a car to be eligable for fastest production car record their need to have been a certain number of cars built for road use of that particular model, the 962 has done a 0-60 time of 2.6 but thir are only 13 Daur 962's which is way below the minimum alowed for the car to be classed as a full production car.

As for the Dauer being the ultimate car, the answer is no, the 962 race car which the Dauer is a modified version of is group C race car with a single seat cabin the Dauer has somhow squeezed 2 seats into it yet the cabin is'nt any bigger so you have no room inside, also it requires a very high level of car control to drive it on public roads, as it's based on a rac car it's fantastic round a track but on bumpy roads it's a big handful.
 
There's a difference between street-legal and production. The Dauer got into the Guinness book as the fastest street-legal car. That's what Dauer themselves call it too. No mention of production. The Dauer 962 used to in the GBWR but isn't now.


However this is in the GBWR
Fastest Acceleration By A Production Car
0-96 km/h (0-60 mph) in 3.07 sec
In 1986 Graham Hathaway, a lifelong motor-sport enthusiast, formed Graham Hathaway Racing. He became racing team manager for the Ford Motor Sport Indonesia division and guided the seven-car team to first and second places overall in the 1991 National Rally Championship. Graham's workshop services include the building and preparation of race and rally cars, rally support, van design and fabrication, event engineering support, management and coordination of race and rally programs. He's a very busy man!
 
yep that makes sense, but ive chatted to a guy on supercars.net that own 1, i know i know, i didnt beleive him 1st either but then when he posted several pics that i asked him to pose in and he did i had to beleive him, he also talked about the car very specifically down to every last detail, he said the car was grat to drive, he said he drove it regularly (weekends) he said it wasnt any worse than a diablo or F1 (not that they are good) but that still a good acheivement just by lloking at the performance by the car. But really it was the fastest production car, if i had the money i woudlve bought one, if more people had the money and liked it over the competition it wouldve sold as many as it needed, so personally i reckon its the real record holder. This is the only car around that time that compared to the 787b, there is a fews years difference though yes?

ps. how many RS200's were built, the version that broke the record i mean, dont you need 500 for homologation rules in rallying?
 
Originally posted by daan
There's a difference between street-legal and production. The Dauer got into the Guinness book as the fastest street-legal car. That's what Dauer themselves call it too. No mention of production. The Dauer 962 used to in the GBWR but isn't now.


However this is in the GBWR
Fastest Acceleration By A Production Car
0-96 km/h (0-60 mph) in 3.07 sec
In 1986 Graham Hathaway, a lifelong motor-sport enthusiast, formed Graham Hathaway Racing. He became racing team manager for the Ford Motor Sport Indonesia division and guided the seven-car team to first and second places overall in the 1991 National Rally Championship. Graham's workshop services include the building and preparation of race and rally cars, rally support, van design and fabrication, event engineering support, management and coordination of race and rally programs. He's a very busy man!
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The Tiger T100 highest spec model is the fastest now, Tiff Needel did the 0-60 in th 2,8 second range, it's twin engined 4WD Lotus seven replica type car.
 
Originally posted by Yazza
ps. how many RS200's were built, the version that broke the record i mean, dont you need 500 for homologation rules in rallying?
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Of the one that broke the record, there's 1! Of "normal" standard ones, as Famine said, "under 200"
 
Originally posted by Yazza
yep that makes sense, but ive chatted to a guy on supercars.net that own 1, i know i know, i didnt beleive him 1st either but then when he posted several pics that i asked him to pose in and he did i had to beleive him, he also talked about the car very specifically down to every last detail, he said the car was grat to drive, he said he drove it regularly (weekends) he said it wasnt any worse than a diablo or F1 (not that they are good) but that still a good acheivement just by lloking at the performance by the car. But really it was the fastest production car, if i had the money i woudlve bought one, if more people had the money and liked it over the competition it wouldve sold as many as it needed, so personally i reckon its the real record holder. This is the only car around that time that compared to the 787b, there is a fews years difference though yes?

ps. how many RS200's were built, the version that broke the record i mean, dont you need 500 for homologation rules in rallying?
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Who is it on SC.net, if theres a guy that owns one on there everyone on that site would know about it, also several motoring mags and a couple of race drivers have made negative comments on the Dauer's road manners, it's still essentially a race car.
 
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