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Discussion in 'Auto News' started by RocZX, Nov 16, 2016.
I'm just curious. Why don't these brands cater to the sub-500HP market?
Just like Lamborghini and Ferrari do?
That'd be because they're supercar manufacturers.
As @Famine mentioned, they're a supercar builder, and market themselves as such, whereas Porsche, BMW and the like either build sportscars (911, Cayman, 4-series), or "sportorized" versions of what people would consider regular cars (Macan, Cayenne, M3, Panamera).
Also, knowing McLaren and their reputation for tech-saviness and attention to detail, I have a hard time seeing them making a car that fits into that market that's both competitivley priced and unique enough compared to it's very plentiful competition.
Gotcha. They probably all make a considerably less amount of cars per year right?
Their cars used to make less power but every next model comes out with more and more. Am I right in thinking that an 80s Ferrari was generally in the 300-400 HP range? Jump to now where the 458 Italia was 570 HP but the next generation 488 takes it to 660 HP. Before the 458 the 430 had 500 HP and the 360 had 400. Interesting right?
There's no need for that increase, but I take it they've been doing that slowly since the days of 300 HP cars and just slowly getting more out of it?
Do they know there is no market for a lower powered entry level car or do they think i'st "beneath" them to seek customers in that bracket in the first place?
Speedtail? Finally the LaFerrari has some competition for the silliest supercar name.
Because McLarens aren't for peasants.
It's probably due to a lot of reasons. The 3-400 HP cars you mentioned are predecessors to the 660 HP 488. It's like that with all cars. When was the last time you saw a new generation have less power than the previous? Cars are getting bigger and heavier, even in those segments.
Ferrari's current entry-level model is the 592 HP Portofino. With hot-hatches hitting the 400 HP barrier these days, 600 seems like the right point for an entry-level Ferriari.
There surely is the point of Ferrari not wanting to dilute the brand, if you had a sub-$100k Ferrari, you'd now see them everywhere and all of a sudden driving a Ferrari, or seeing one is nothing special. The other points could be that some brands belong to bigger companies, whose other brands might fill those niches. The other is that profit margins on more expensive cars are bigger.
McLaren reportedly sold 3,340 cars in 2017. By Comparison, Ferrari sold ~8,400 cars and Lambo sold a little over 3,800, and that'll probably go up with the Urus entering production.
This is mostly because horsepower sells, which seems to be especially true in the world of high-end cars. And those price-points, the buyer probably wants to make sure that they're getting something really awesome for what they're paying for., and that it's bigger/better/more badass than the current or outgoing model(s). A good example of this is the marketing after the Dodge Demon was revealed.
It's not beneath them, after all they introduced the 500 series well after the MP4-12C and P1. I personally think McLaren were able to do (and simultaneously do not) this because their name was already fairly well-known both in-an-outside of the car world, thanks to both the F1 and P1. They already had a large (for a boutique manufacturer) potential consumer base, and realized that a lot of people want a car that's distinctly McLaren, but wasn't as "exclusive" as the MP4/620 or P1.
With that, I personally have a hard time imagining a distinctly McLaren vehicle that competes on the same level as the Cayman GT4, BMW M4 GTS and the like. More than anything, I see such a car being too expensive for its class.
Numbers fascinate me. I'm curious to how many cars they actually made, not necessarily sold. That's an interesting fact to me.
Quick search showed that Ferrari intentionally keep production to around 7,000 to create a scarcity premium by making buyers wait on average about a year before they can acquire a Ferrari.
Speedtail? is that really the name of this car
Either way can wait for the reveal
McLarens might be shifting volume, but the residuals are horrible, and this will catch up with them eventually.
Tom Hartley jnr just sold a 181 miles 720s for £199k... £50k below list. Assume Hartley bought it for c.£170k... the owner took an £80k loss.
The 5xx's might be OK (for now), and the super limited hyper cars (P1), but with 650's and 720's you may as well pile all your cash up and set fire to it.
Once again, the codename is better than the model name.
I highly suspect this guy might actually be involved in McLaren's naming department.
The Ferrari 812 Superfast is a far worse offender.
Was about to say this is a good reason why McLaren should probably stay away from building anything more entry level friendly than the 570S, unless they can offset production and purposely limit other models to upkeep their values. Otherwise, McLaren will just build as many cars as there are orders and then all those cars just get flipped for a new model that once again, is an open order book.
Right now, a 675LT seems to be the only model that will likely hold value.
Even the 675 isn't immune anymore... in the UK, they were £400k+ at one time. Plenty available at £250k now. Prices of top end Ferrari's and Porsche's have come down a bit, but nowhere near the same percentage drop.
McLaren are just producing too many cars - unlike Ferrari, you can just walk in to a dealership, order your spec. and get delivery 12 weeks later. The brand will have no value if they continue like this.
That’s around $330,000 here which means the US market is hurting even more. There’s a ton under that value and a lot don’t even have 1500 miles on them. Top of the market is $360,000 right now and the very few cars above that are MSO/heavily carbon fiber optioned cars.
There’s one dealer trying to move one with a matching P1 for $3.2m combined.
Interesting... this is what I think of when I think of speed tail.
Only time I can think of was the Eighties Lotus Elan to the Nineties Lotus Elise.
I'd love to see some more of those GIF's of old cars to new cars that shows how they are getting bigger and bigger... I read somewhere it was due to CAFE, basically you improve your fuel emissions and efficiency in the same size car or you keep them the same and make the car around the engine bigger... guess which one is easier...
Possibly speedtails in the background of this photo? Or are they some other concept McLaren have been working on?
Every timed this thread pops up, I keep reading "Speedball".
Wow those cars in the background, whatever they are, look crazy!
People are saying it's just the prototype for the P1.
Cool looking p1 concept
The Speedtail will be unveiled on October 26th
How many more hours till the unveil?
Think it's 13:30 BST, so 5:30 Pacific/8:30 Eastern.
Found there in a google image search
It was a Swiss site but they deleted the article
I don't think I like it.