MH17 Crash In Ukraine. Known info in OP.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dennisch
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DFAT has confirmed 27 Australians were on board
 
SniperRed3
I hate to be all professional conspiracy theorist. But we haven't yet ruled out the missile coming from Russia it's self.
I don't think this is likely, but it's a theory.
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Yes, and its a plausible theory. It may provide just the excuse they need to invade and establish some order.
 
Don't we have nukes? We do dumb stuff too.

I not giving them a pass, just saying
 
I love how Ukraine wanted to get closer to Europe and now "Pro-Russian fighters" are taking over Ukraine
 
PsuPepperoni
I'd like to think that a military with nuclear capabilities wouldn't be that incompetent.
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In the Russian system, much discretionary control, even of nukes, is entrusted to battlefield commanders.
 
The Ukraine Secret Service has released audio evidence of the intercepted phone calls allegedly between pro-Russian rebel forces in Ukraine and a Russian GRU intelligence officer, as per the claims made by the Foreign Ministry a few hours ago.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ntercepted-call-suggests-rebels-to-blame.html

Not sure if that link will work for those of you not in the UK, but basically it appears to corroborate what the Ukrainian foreign minister was saying earlier that pro-Russian rebels and the Russian ministry of defense are responsible.
 
Touring Mars
The Ukraine Secret Service has released audio evidence of the intercepted phone calls allegedly between pro-Russian rebel forces in Ukraine and a Russian GRU intelligence officer, as per the claims made by the Foreign Ministry a few hours ago.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ntercepted-call-suggests-rebels-to-blame.html

Not sure if that link will work for those of you not in the UK, but basically it appears to corroborate what the Ukrainian foreign minister was saying earlier that pro-Russian rebels and the Russian ministry of defense are responsible.
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The last part:

Why was the plane over Ukrainian airspace?
What does it mean?

It means that they were dropping spies!

D'oh!
 
We had a transcript of this conversation early on. I don't think anyone is stupid enough to jump from a 777
 
Touring Mars
The Ukraine Secret Service has released audio evidence of the intercepted phone calls allegedly between pro-Russian rebel forces in Ukraine and a Russian GRU intelligence officer, as per the claims made by the Foreign Ministry a few hours ago.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ntercepted-call-suggests-rebels-to-blame.html

Not sure if that link will work for those of you not in the UK, but basically it appears to corroborate what the Ukrainian foreign minister was saying earlier that pro-Russian rebels and the Russian ministry of defense are responsible.
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My Russian's fairly borscht, we need @rageracer1988 to verify the translation... but I'm inclined to think this is terrifyingly genuine.

@SniperRed3 , oh god, the "can you jump from a 777" debate went on for days last time... ;)
 
If that call is verified Putin can show a bit of good by arresting the men talking.
 
Dennisch
The last part:

Why was the plane over Ukrainian airspace?
What does it mean?

It means that they were dropping spies!

D'oh!
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Many airlines have deemed it unsafe zone, will not fly over disputed zone. Malaysian airlines deemed it safe...
 
I'm thinking the Russians have the black boxes, data recorders. I'm hoping not but it seems likely as the area is rebel controlled.
 
jimipitbull
Many airlines have deemed it unsafe zone, will not fly over disputed zone. Malaysian airlines deemed it safe...
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Source required, pre-incident...

@Rich S, it seemed a couple of hours ago that they were in Ukrainian hands, do you have a source for that new report saying the Russians have them?
 
jimipitbull
Many airlines have deemed it unsafe zone, will not fly over disputed zone. Malaysian airlines deemed it safe...
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A lot of airlines were still flying over the area, although it bit more to the south.
 
No only American airlines were staying clear.
ukraine.jpg
 
TenEightyOne
Source required, pre-incident...

@Rich S, it seemed a couple of hours ago that they were in Ukrainian hands, do you have a source for that new report saying the Russians have them?
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Ukrainian authorities had closed the area between the ground and 32,000 feet prior to the Malaysia Airlines crash Thursday morning, Eurocontrol said in a statement. The aircraft was flying above the closed area.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101845738#.
 
TenEightyOne
My Russian's fairly borscht, we need @rageracer1988 to verify the translation... but I'm inclined to think this is terrifyingly genuine.

@SniperRed3 , oh god, the "can you jump from a 777" debate went on for days last time... ;)
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The Telegraph is pretty much spot on with their translation unfortunately. Basically what's being said is that a plane was shot down by "Kozaks" from an outpost. It seems that they were aiming for a different plane or got confused, going by the "Major's" tone and usage of words, he's quite shocked and realizes that they made a terrible mistake.

Final part is quite shocking, the militant asks what a Malaysian Airlines plane was doing over Ukraine, and M. Kozitsyn basically tells in a nonchalant manner that they had no effin business flying over the country while a war is going on. The comment about the spies was in a sarcastic tone, in case anyone's wondering.
 
I heard something on CNN saying that Flight 17 was about 200 miles north of its usual route due to thunderstorms over the usual flight path. Is there any possible way that someone could verify this?
 
It would be very surprising if the Ukrainians had the black boxes, since the area where the plane came down is in pro-Russian rebel hands, and various reports this evening have suggested that the rebel forces (who have been pictured at the crash site) already have the black boxes. That said, apparently the rebels have offered to help with the investigation and there has even been talk of a ceasefire to allow international investigators access to the site etc. I was rather surprised to hear that the families of the victims are being offered (either by the Dutch or by Malaysian Airlines) the opportunity to fly out to Kiev and visit the crash site in Ukraine. While that is a good gesture, it seems rather idiotic, given that the place is quite obviously still a war zone.

SniperRed3
We had a transcript of this conversation early on. I don't think anyone is stupid enough to jump from a 777
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Are you sure? If so, who translated it and is it accurate?

edit: It appears that the video published by the Telegraph that I linked to above is an accurate translation. Thanks to @Xilor for the context/extra info too 👍
 
Dennisch
Ukrainian authorities had closed the area between the ground and 32,000 feet prior to the Malaysia Airlines crash Thursday morning, Eurocontrol said in a statement. The aircraft was flying above the closed area.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101845738#.
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I'd seen that, but that's deliberately below the air corridor. I was more interested in how many airlines were actively avoiding the civil airspace (over 32,000 feet) ;)
 
No, not the case it flew straight. I read an article about it that had exactly the same words.
upload_2014-7-18_0-58-28.png
The end of the blue line is the point it was shot down
 
SniperRed3
No, the Russians have them.
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Source? I don't have a matching one but earlier the BBC showed one and said that Ukrainian officials were handing it over to Boeing, I'll see if I can find where they've written it on their site ;)

@Touring Mars , I may have fallen into the "but WHICH Ukrainians?" trap ;)
 
TenEightyOne
I'd seen that, but that's deliberately below the air corridor. I was more interested in how many airlines were actively avoiding the civil airspace (over 32,000 feet) ;)
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http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/17/travel/malaysia-airlines-crash-air-space/index.html?hpt=ieu_c2

Cnn names a couple of them. Plenty were still flying over the area, but many others already listened to the warning given in April.

Dutch news claims that the Flight data recorder has been found by the rebels and is handed over to the Russians, and it is on it's way to Moscow.
 
Dennisch
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/17/travel/malaysia-airlines-crash-air-space/index.html?hpt=ieu_c2

Cnn names a couple of them. Plenty were still flying over the area, but many others already listened to the warning given in April.

Dutch news claims that the Flight data recorder has been found by the rebels and is handed over to the Russians, and it is on it's way to Moscow.
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I know about the post-incident diversions, I'm interested in which carriers diverted pre-incident, can't find any in there.

Presumably if the FDR is on its way to Moscow then it'll be duplicated then returned to the US owners? Hopefully so. There are some checks that will show if the data were altered, in theory.

@SniperRed3, that's pretty much the graphic from the first page that shows the aircraft was flying "straight", it was on an HA airway, they're straight as far as rotation allows... the final course-change was straight until the end.

Sources look reet though, presumably the Ukrainians with the FDR were Russian-allied, if that's even who they were.
 
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