MH17 Crash In Ukraine. Known info in OP.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dennisch
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Robin.
Just wondering, would an approaching missile give a warning in the cockpit of a commercial airliner in a similar way to a military one? If so would it be possible to do evasive manoeuvres?
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There would not be a warning other than the pilot seeing the missile, but if it was seen and recognized it could be evaded if the circumstances were right. Any plane is agile enough to possibly avoid a missile. Thing is the missile could have had a range of up to 30 or so miles and the rocket is only lit for a few seconds. It could have been totally invisible to the pilot. On the other side, missiles have what is called a no escape zone in which they are near impossible to defeat by maneuvers alone. If the pilot was close enough to see the missile from the moment of launch, there probably wasn't anything to be done.

All in all, while the missile could have been avoided maybe, the pilot was probably never even aware of it.
 
I can't get this pic out of my head... the panel damage (the torn inward hole) doesn't look consistent with the apparent direction of the other damage in the picture.

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vasiliflame
That's a sneeky way of creating a no fly zone me thinks
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Huh? If sneaky means "announce it on the news" then yeah, all the major airlines/governments have been pretty sneaky by all announcing that! :D
 
Not sure if these were posted yet.

These images are somewhat graphic. Click at your own risk.

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The actions behind it I mean , Did they announce they were going to shoot down a airliner?


What type of missile can the buk fire , would they be proximity or impact missiles?
 
Massive rear-bulkhead explosion is what all those pictures say right now :(

The smoke on the video, I'm sure it's downwards. Those clouds are at 10,000 feet (if the METAR I got is correct), the plane would have to fall 20,000 feet gathering speed (remember it was in forward, not vertical motion) before being visible to the video. By that time there'd be no missile trail, it's not like Battlefield 4 ;)
 
@Slash, you might want to take down that last image. There looks like there could possibly be a few of the victims.
 
cmbeal317
@Slash, you might want to take down that last image. There looks like there could possibly be a few of the victims.
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All images were blurred and censored by Fox news.
 
@Slash, please take those down, we're all capable of going to look for dead bodies, we don't need kids to post them here :(
 
TenEightyOne
Massive rear-bulkhead explosion is what all those pictures say right now :(

The smoke on the video, I'm sure it's downwards. Those clouds are at 10,000 feet (if the METAR I got is correct), the plane would have to fall 20,000 feet gathering speed (remember it was in forward, not vertical motion) before being visible to the video. By that time there'd be no missile trail, it's not like Battlefield 4 ;)
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For comparison, Buk launch and impact (2:12)

 
Dennisch
This. You can clearly see a body on the left side.
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Slash
All images were blurred and censored by Fox news.
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I would think if it was what it actually is, it would have been censored like the first pic. If a mod wants to take it down, then let them, but I'm leaving it.

These were publicly posted images, broadcasted to millions. I'm merely hot linking them. If you want them taken down, go talk to Fox News or report the post. You all have a right to see the damage this is causing. The best I am willing to do is quote them. I don't agree with hiding behind this. If you can't bear to see what damage this is causing, you shouldn't be in this thread. That's how I see it.

Like I said, if a mod has an issue with it, then take them down.
 
Exorcet
For comparison, Buk launch and impact (2:12)
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Not much of a comparison, do you have one that shows a BUK engaging a target at 35,000 feet travelling at 500KIGS? Or any idea of the distance the target covers while the missile climbs? It's not fast, that's one of it's strengths in manoeuverability.

Mainly you need to realise that the aircraft is not going to fall near the launch path.

@Slash, don't play dumb, look at your last pic. If you can't see the dead body then you need to see an optician AND a school counsellor. And yes, I did report both that post and your refusal to take the dead body pictures down.

Lots of things are available on the internet, that doesn't mean they can all be posted here.
 
American intelligence forces have now stated that the plane was hit by a ground to air missile. No reports on evidence or how they came to their conclusion so far.

@Slash

A moderator already deleted it.
That it has been posted publicly doesn't mean you can post it here. You should know that.
 
Slash
I would think if it was what it actually is, it would have been censored like the first pic. If a mod wants to take it down, then let them, but I'm leaving it.

These were publicly posted images, broadcasted to millions. I'm merely hot linking them. If you want them taken down, go talk to Fox News or report the post. You all have a right to see the damage this is causing. The best I am willing to do is quote them. I don't agree with hiding behind this. If you can't bear to see what damage this is causing, you shouldn't be in this thread. That's how I see it.

Like I said, if a mod has an issue with it, then take them down.
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Slash.... publically posted or not:

You will not post or link to content that is obscene (AUP)
 
Dennisch
American intelligence forces have now stated that the plane was hit by a ground to air missile. No reports on evidence or how they came to their conclusion so far.

@Slash

A mod already deleted it.
That it has been posted publicly doesn't mean you can post it here. You should know that.
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Furinkazen
Slash.... publically posted or not:

You will not post or link to content that is obscene (AUP)
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I am well aware what the AUP says in this case. In a time of crisis I don't agree with censoring actions that caused harm. Everyone has a right to see what has been caused and should be angry about it.

It seems it's been removed. Very well then.
 
Let's keep the most graphic images to an absolute minimum from here on in. Just because it's "easily available" doesn't mean it should be reposted on our site.

Examples:
- No gore/death images in motorsports forum.
- Pornography isn't permitted, not difficult to find online.

edit: I don't want to ruin an important thread inside our Opinions and Current Events with this, but we have set precedence. It's quite clear there aren't any survivors from an incident such as this, so their condition isn't really up for further discussion. I know "respect for the dead and their families" can vary in different ways in different cultures, but I think this is a case where tending towards modesty is a better course of action.
 
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TenEightyOne
Not much of a comparison, do you have one that shows a BUK engaging a target at 35,000 feet travelling at 500KIGS? Or any idea of the distance the target covers while the missile climbs? It's not fast, that's one of it's strengths in manoeuverability.

Mainly you need to realise that the aircraft is not going to fall near the launch path.
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This is the only launch I could find. The distance traveled while the missile climbs depends on where the plane was relative to launcher. It won't take a rocket long to get to 30,000 ft, though it will take some time to cover a horizontal distance.

I don't know what mean by this:
"It's not fast, that's one of it's strengths in manoeuverability."
 
Pupik
Let's keep the most graphic images to an absolute minimum from here on in. Just because it's "easily available" doesn't mean it should be reposted on our site.
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Fair enough 👍
 
Slash
I am well aware what the AUP says in this case. In a time of crisis I don't agree with censoring actions that caused harm. Everyone has a right to see what has been caused and should be angry about it.

It seems it's been removed. Very well then.
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It doesn't matter what you want. You agreed to the AUP. Stick to it because I need your Ford knowledge every once in a while!
 
Dennisch
It doesn't matter what you want. You agreed to the AUP. Stick to it because I need your Ford knowledge every once in a while!
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:)

Will do. Sorry for that guys. Just shaking my head over this whole thing.
 
Slash
I am well aware what the AUP says in this case. In a time of crisis I don't agree with censoring actions that caused harm. Everyone has a right to see what has been caused and should be angry about it.

It seems it's been removed. Very well then.
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Anger and doing things off the cuff causes these incidents/wars . We don't need to be angry I am not angry or gun hoe..
 
Exorcet
This is the only launch I could find. The distance traveled while the missile climbs depends on where the plane was relative to launcher. It won't take a rocket long to get to 30,000 ft, though it will take some time to cover a horizontal distance.

I don't know what mean by this:
"It's not fast, that's one of it's strengths in manoeuverability."
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The faster a missile goes the easier it is to evade it by turning into its trajectory. If it's slower than you then you have a problem, so the slower the missile travels as it nears you the more options it has to destroy you.

I now believe that this may well be a shoot-down, all type/airline/flight-profile coincidences aside... I just don't think that the smoke on @Touring Mars video (impossible to apostrophise tags) is upward, I think it's a downward trail from the impact mass that we see or from another part whose impact we don't see.

@Slash, we DO have a right to see it, but when we join a private media publisher (like this one) we agree to do what they think is acceptable.

Good that you're angry about this but be more mature in your outlook ;)
 
Rage Racer
Russia shoots down. Wow. So accurate. Russia or Russian-backed militants - who gives a ****?
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I'm not affiliated with the blog, and I only posted the link as it shows that the type of launch vehicle was in the area. :)

I'm convinced that the separatists are responsible, based on the fact that they claimed responsibility on Facebook for shooting down what they though was a cargo plane(which was later deleted).

Reading this article from Foxtrot Alpha, the launcher and missile may not have even come from Russia as some we're stolen from a Ukrainian AA defense base.

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/ukraine-rebels-stole-same-missiles-that-may-have-taken-1606774715/1606791724/ pgeorge

Just heard on CNN, that it has been confirmed by US officials that flight MH17 was shot down.
 
@Slash Don't worry about it - there is a bit of a gray area when it comes to graphic content with journalistic merit - in such cases you could post a link to the image with an appropriate warning of graphic content rather than posting the image itself, but people who don't want to view such material should feel that these pages are safe viewing. For the record, it is not censoring - it's simply what the owner of the site has asked us to abide by.
 
TenEightyOne
The faster a missile goes the easier it is to evade it by turning into its trajectory. If it's slower than you then you have a problem, so the slower the missile travels as it nears you the more options it has to destroy you.
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It doesn't work that way. Missiles are more deadly with speed, they're designed specifically for supersonic flight and the Buk is capable against maneuvering aircraft like fighters. Max aircraft g is 12-15 if you don't care about keeping the plane in useable condition ever again. Missiles can pull 20+. You should not turn into a missile either. It will simply out turn you. Missile defeat is achieved by bleeding it of energy or causing guidance to fail.
 
A phonecall has been intercepted between Igor Bezler, a commander from the DPR, and Vasili Geranin, a Russian intelligence officer about the crash.

US intelligence have now stated that they have heat signatures of a missile near the airplane. They are now investigating where the launch point was.
 
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