Microsoft Doesn't See Sony's PS5 as Competition for the Xbox

Discussion in 'Console & PC Gaming' started by GTPNewsWire, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot Premium

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    What?

    Why?

    Is this straight-from-ass figures, or did you actually look it up? Either way, you can't sell any digital games from any console source.

    Except for the fact that their games are branching out to PC too, right? Sounds to me like they're going in the same direction, just not at the same rate.

    and handhelds.

    So, basically, very similarly to how GTS is running right now? Or any other console game that requires internet connectivity in order to even get past the main menu that are currently on PS4 and Xbox?
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
  2. IngRobNy

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    And that is problematic in it's own, I don't buy many games with requirements like that, Seadog777 haven't even been able to connect to GT S network for a couple days now :rolleyes:, always online is a bad thing and should be avoided at almost all cost in my opinion, but I just had to buy GT S when PD included single player content. :O

     
  3. ImaRobot

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    So why the one sided argument? :rolleyes:
     
  4. Silver Arrows

    Silver Arrows Premium

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    In fact, even the only digital games storefront to actually refund for games, Steam, only allows you to do it for two weeks after purchase and if you've accrued less then two hours of play time. I don't know about you - but unless the game is broken right off the hop, then I need a lot more then two hours to see if a game is bad or not.

    Apparently always online is bad, except when Polyphony does it. Which, is wrong, because lots of people have (rightfully) pointed out how asinine it is to have online saves and effective always online, but certainly feels like what the quoted post is talking about.

    Then again, these people are going to be eating a fair bit of crow when GT7 gets released and GT Sport's servers are shut down within five months of release, going by the actions of Polyphony for GT5 and 6. I wouldn't even be surprised if Polyphony shut down the PS4 servers for GT Sport if they release a remastered version of GT Sport.
     
  5. IngRobNy

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    I'm not sure I understand your question, my argument is that always online is problematic in it's own and streaming games will be so much worse than that, just look at all the problems with Google Stadia, less and less people are using Stadia and it wasn't long ago they started up. Internet isn't stable/good enough and I don't know if it ever will be good enough for streaming games only, coexist with consoles is probably the best way to go.
     
  6. GT6mebe

    GT6mebe

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    A more accurate response would be Microsoft has been handily beaten in the traditional console gaming market by Sony/Playstation.

    PS4 will end with hardware sales of 120 million+. XB1 will be around 55 million.
    Playstation revenue for the past few years has been > both Nintendo and MS gaming division combined
    60% of XB1 sales are in US+UK. PS4 is beating XB1 in US and UK yet US+Uk is only 35% of global sales. MS is non existent in a lot of EU and Asia.

    XB exclusives have cratered in popularity. Halo, Gears, FM have all massively declined since the 360 era. Compare that to Sony's first party which has massively grown: UC4 is at 16 million, GOW 10 million+, Horizon 10 million+, Spiderman 13 million+, TLOU 20 million, RC 5 million etc

    Xbox's only hope is to pivot to streaming which is not a priority at all for Sony or Nintendo. So it makes sense why they want to ignore how bad they got beaten in the traditional market and look at the cloud market.

    MS Azure is dominant in said market, however whether cloud gaming takes off is another matter entirely. Stadia has been largely a flop and I don't think Gamepass can ever replicate the revenue Playstation brings.
     
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  7. IngRobNy

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    Same happend whe the servers for Hitman Absolution shut down, a old game now for sure, but nevertheless still people wanted to play player made contracts, but that's gone and many people isn't really happy about that, they bought the full game, but since some of the content needed online connections to the servers, that content is locked forever.

    I wonder what will happen to all your games you buy on Google Stadia if/when they shut that down, all your content can be gone from one day to the next, that's pretty scary in my opinion.
     
  8. ImaRobot

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    I knew Steam had some sort of service like that, but that's also why I wanted to specifically mention not being able to sell back games on consoles.

    You replied to my point to someone that's making this a one sided argument. It was basically trying to get acknowledgment that the people here trying to only point at one side of the fence being wrong are actually the ones in the wrong here. Also, who said that it's not going to co-exist? Or are those just conspiracy theories as well?

    No it wouldn't. Reading the article should have made that apparent, really. They're still making consoles so it's still very much going to be part of the market, yet they're shifting focus for a wider range.

    You know what the crazy thing about that? Just because they sold less doesn't mean they're going to do less. I dont think them selling less has impacted absolutely anything for developing for the future.

    Are you purposely leaving out extremely popular games like Forza Horizon in order to elaborate a specific point of view?

    I already know your answer. It's not popular, its just on game pass so those 10+ mil just downloaded it and never played it, right?

    It's really not their only hope for anything as selling less hasn't really impacted much of anything. Has Nintendo being massively popular made it any issue for Sony?
     
  9. IngRobNy

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    No I haven't heard about conspiracy theories like that :lol:, it's more my own conspiracy theori, the only one I have, thank God for that. :nervous: :lol:.
     
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  10. ImaRobot

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    I really don't see traditional games/consoles being phased out completely, in my opinion. While I almost always purchase digital instead of physical games, I still very much would want an actual console as I also use it for more than just video games. I prefer owning physical discs of movies I purchase.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
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  11. IngRobNy

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    So do I, but at least I have the games installed here with me and I can still play most of my games even if the internet is down, it's not like Google Stadia, pay full price for games and they still aren't 100% ours since we can't download them.
     
  12. ImaRobot

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    That’s the thing though, how different is it than purchasing digital games now?
     
  13. IngRobNy

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    The difference is that I can still play most of my games even if the internet is down, most of my games dosen't need to be connected to internet. :)
     
  14. GT6mebe

    GT6mebe

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    A much much smaller part of the market, hence them getting handily beaten,

    1) Less third party exclusives/contracts
    2) Less Japanese support
    3) Less marketing ties with big games

    Just highlighting how MS's bgg three have collapsed. Sure Horizon and SoT have been very successful.

    Nintendo and Sony cater to different demographics. Playstation and Xbox do not, hence one doing exceedingly well will inevitably eat into the market share of the other

    PS2 + XB = 180 million
    PS3 + 360 = 174 million+
    PS4 + XB1 = 175 million (at the end)

    Remarkably consistent and both Sony and MS know this.
     
  15. ImaRobot

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    Really, their market presence isn't going to change. It's still very much making consoles. So no, the way you reworded it to make yourself feel better doesn't really fit.

    Got any examples?

    So older style games have dropped, your right, but new IP's seem to be picking up pretty hastily is what youre saying?

    I wouldn't necessarily say that's true. The Switch can very much be considered a home console now. It's almost solely how I treat it, an always connected gaming hub directly to my TV. I think they're in both demographics pretty easily. So exactly what has it stopped the other companies from doing by being massively popular?


    You're right, some.
     
  16. IngRobNy

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    More like most, only two of my games (Hitman 2 and GT S) needs internet connection, I can play Red Dead Redemtion 2, Metro Exodus, Sniper Elite 4, The Outer Worlds, Fallout 4 and even Borderlands 3 without internet connection (just recent offline gaming history), I play mostly single player games, so the only need I have for internet connection is updates and DLC's and for that is internet really useful.
    ... :idea: Maybe I have to start buying disc versions again, to support that format so it dosen't disappear... :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
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  17. ImaRobot

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    Always online games seem to be increasing as time goes by. While it doesn't affect me it definitely affects some so I understand the issue.

    but a lot of my point was about what you said here:

    This is no different than digital downloads. If either the PS, Xbox, or Stadia go down, we wont own those games anymore. It's the same for anything supporting digital format. It's very unlikely that we'll see any of these going anywhere anytime soon though.
     
  18. IngRobNy

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    It is, if PS goes down, my games will still be playable on my PS4, at least they I have installed on my HD and external HD, those two together gives me 1.5 TB storage space, but for some odd reason, I'm not afraid of Playstation (or Xbox for that matter) to be shut down and I'm pretty sure my library of games is safe there for years to come, but Stadia? No, I don't trust them or a pure gaming streaming service for that matter, their service isn't without problems, latency. lags, disconnects etc, etc.
    But it isn't 100% sure to trust Playstation either, the best would be to buy disc versions and buy a second PS [insert number from 5 to 10 here :lol:] so you can play those games as long as you have a working Playstation, but if Sony shuts down, updates and DLC's will be gone, so I guess nothing is safe, same for all other things in life, but having games installed on a gaming console gives me more safety when it comes to latency, glitching graphics/lag due to various unstable intenet or the worst that can happen, when internet would be down somewhere from me to the streaming service and then I can only play games when the internet allows me to, now I can play most games (except Hitman 2 and GT S) without thinking about internet connection at all and I want it to stay like that. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
  19. GT6mebe

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    Too late. It already has. Xbox is very non existent now in much of EU and Asia.

    The fall form 360 to XB1 has been massive outside of US+UK.

    1) 360 era -> GTA4 DLC timed, Mass Effect timed/full, Oblivion, Bioshock, COD DLC etc

    Now PS4 has GTA marketing and gets COD DLC.

    2) 360 had a lot of JP exclusives: Tales of Vesperia, Ace Combat, Lost Odyssey, Last Remnant, Blue Dragon, Star Ocean, Lost Planet, Dead Rising, Dead or Alive 4 etc

    Now PS4 gets more JP exclusives and games like Star Ocean have not even released for XB1.

    Not really. The gap Halo and Gears collapsing has not been replaced. These were mega hits during the 360 days.

    UK

    [Week 46, 2006] 01 (NE) GEARS OF WAR (MICROSOFT) ~ 100,000 / NEW
    [Week 45, 2008] 01 (NE) GEARS OF WAR 2 (MICROSOFT) ~ 220,000 / NEW
    [Week 38, 2011] 01 (NE) GEARS OF WAR 3 (MICROSOFT) - 323,000 / NEW
    [Week 12, 2013] 01 (NE) GEARS OF WAR: JUDGEMENT (MICROSOFT) ~ 80,000 / NEW
    [Week 35, 2015] 01 (NE) GEARS OF WAR: ULTIMATE EDITION (MICROSOFT) ~ 40,000 / NEW
    GEARS OF WAR 4 ~ 92K
    GEARS OF WAR 5 ~ 18K

    NPD

    GOW 2 - 1.56 million
    GOW3 - 2 million +
    GOWJ - 620k
    GOW4 - ~415K / 505K
    GOW 5 - lower than 4

    Halo 3 - 3.3 million
    Halo 4 - 3.2 million
    Halo 5 - 935k

    UK

    FH4 - 70k

    The numbers show it is. Switch is complimentary system, that has not eaten into the 175 million+ core PS/XB share.
     
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  20. ImaRobot

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    So you're basically saying their market presence isn't going to change there, that it's not going to increase, right? That sounds a lot like not changing. You can't really get lower than "Non-existent" You can either only stay the same, or go up from there.

    Really, its just all a wait and see situation. What happened to the 360> Xbox One is it's own situation.

    That's because they paid money to get those exclusivity deals a little earlier For GTA and COD. Much like Microsoft did before. That's not really any example because it doesn't even make much sense in the context of the point you're making. You said that these are the outcome of the Xbox One not selling as much - So when Microsoft had those exclusivity deals, what was the issue back then?

    The PlayStation always had a vastly larger JP exclusiveness since its inception, that was literally their side of the pond, and it vastly outweighed whatever Xbox produced, on any console generation. It's not surprising seeing it dwindle. That likely has much to do with the regional popularity of the Xbox, like you said.

    Why are you only focusing on one exact region? That literally makes no sense when we're talking about everything as a whole. Not only that, why the lack of a detailed breakdown with Forza Horizon? Uk 70k what? When? Where? Over what time frame? I mean you started out good with the beginning and then just half-assed the rest as if to downplay a point it.

    Why are you combining them and not talking about them as separate entities? Didn't the Wii also do exceedingly well?
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
  21. GT6mebe

    GT6mebe

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    I said non existent in many areas in EU and Asia. Xbox can still lose further ground in US/UK/and areas.

    Wrong. It is also tied to the fact that 360 was in a dominant position, hardware and software wise. The reason why third party exclusives and deals have collapsed with XB1 while PS4 has gotten far more than PS3 is simply due to PS4 accounting for 70% of the core market.

    US and UK make up 60% of XB's market and are the biggest software markets for Xbox by far. These are XB's best markets, an underperformance here is only going to be worse in less popular markets :lol:
    The trend is clear.

    NPD - US launch month
    UK - launch week

    Sure. I love how you have no response to Halo going from 3.3 million in launch month to < 1 million or how Gears went from 2 million in launch month to 500k :lol:
    XB going from 87+ million to 55 million, apparently won't change market presence :lol:
     
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  22. Joey D

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    Microsoft is clearly changing how it's going to move forward with the gaming arm of its business. I don't blame them.

    As for who will "win" the next console war, my guess is Microsoft has already "won". With the Xbox platform being available on every Windows 10 computer, it increases the market share by a massive amount. Even if Sony sells more physical PS5's than MS sell Xbox's, MS still has a larger share of people who could potentially play its games since a majority of non-commercial PC users use Win10. It's also not a bad strategy since companies don't see huge profits on the consoles themselves but rather the games. If MS can push people to PCs, they still sell games and make a larger profit overall.

    I mean due to MS bringing the Xbox platform to the PC, I see no reason to buy a next-gen console that isn't from Nintendo. I'll be able to play pretty much any game I want, plus have access to Steam, Origin, GOG, and, begrudgingly, the Epic Store. For my money, I can play more games plus do more stuff with a PC instead of shelling out $500-$600 on a new console.

    I'm sure Blockbuster said the same thing about movie streaming, yet here we are with companies like Netflix making bank and Blockbuster a smoldering heap.

    SSDs have been around since the late '70s and were popularized by Toshiba and SanDisk in the late '80s. It's not a Sony invention by a long shot.
     
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  23. ImaRobot

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    You're definitely right, it can.

    You're right, XB1 definitely fell off on the exclusivity list, but how is that affecting the next generation? It seems to be there big focus, which is weird because if we go off what you're saying, it should be far worse, no? They seem to be nabbing more in order to up their own exclusivity. So if they're doing worse still, wouldn't that trend continue to go downward with little room to focus on it? With their push on that forefront, it really seems like it's really not as affected as you're saying.

    Either way, like I've said, we'll just have to wait and see. We defintely know their exclusives are going to be down at the immediate launch though, which I believe there was an article on it here.

    I like how you keep ignoring the fact that Horizon is on the rise and only increasing by a large margin every iteration. Xbox going from 87+ million to 55 million apparently hasn't changed that. That's exactly what the point was, to illustrate that you keep saying it's getting worse for their own (older)exclusives yet that doesn't seem to be telling the full truth about it all. Playstation 4 "winning" seemed to have affected nothing for the popularity of the game at all if it's seemingly getting more popular each time a game releases no matter how much more is being sold.

    Speaking of things getting ignored:
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
  24. FoRiZon

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    Wrong. I'll debunk you one by one.

    The reason X360 sells more than PS3 is not only that its 100 - 200 dollars cheaper, but other factors such as better exclusives on the first half of their lifespans and (forgive me) easier to pirate. PS3 eventually sold quite well at the end, not as much huge sales margin as say XBone to PS4.

    Its true that early version of X360 is very defective at estimate 23,7% - 54,2%. Still there's nothing proven that majority of people whose affected suddenly bought another X360 for the sake of it (and its a dumb move if you think about it).

    The reason why PS4 sold more than XBone is not because "quality /quantity, everything" (assuming you talk about the console itself), altough the good exclusives at PS4 might help PS4 by considerable margin. XBone console quality is on par with PS4 as far as Im aware.

    Back then, XBone has a terrible reputation when launch with terrible leadership, ridiculous DRM and used games policy, forced Kinect so much that the processing power for actual games is actually lowered (and by itself is still lower than PS4), and on top of all is the 100 dollars more pricetag than the PS4. The crapshow is viral and people are rightfully pissed so much so that they'll prefer PS4 (or PC) instead.

    A year or two after the fiasco, Don Mattrick (that terrible leader) left and Phil Spencer comes in. Phil moving forward tries to remedy all of previous bad decisions Don has made, by buffed up the power of existing XBone via patch, backwards compatibility, less focus on Kinect to the point of discontinuation for XBox, some UI changes and QOL updates, and making Series X more powerful than PS4 Pro.

    The reputation is now fixed and the sales of recent years is actually almost matching quite close to PS4. Sadly the damage is already done and PS4 ready have an huge sales advantage at start, something that XBox has almost completely passed on.

    Theres also one Phil initiative that I believe also gimped XBone sales and its the "Play Anywhere" where most of XBox exclusive titles can now be played on Windows 10 PC. Generous yes, but it also meant that XBone now has virtually almost no exclusive and theres basically one less reason to buy XBone over PS4 especially if said customers are already have the gaming PC.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
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  25. MatskiMonk

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    Xbox doesn't compete with Playstation... interesting. Guess I'll cross it off my list of things to consider buying instead of the next Playstation then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
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  26. Terronium-12

    Terronium-12 Moderator

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    Funny, I get the feeling that you're strawmanning now.

    What is this and what does it have to do with the topic at hand?

    Congratulations, you had a laptop in 2013 with an SSD...when they were already on the market years prior to that. And I had just built a new PC with my second SSD because the tech was still new and expensive. So?

    And now you're championing an audio codec. Wow. Just...wow. What a rebel you are. :lol:

    Please stop.
     
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  27. GT6mebe

    GT6mebe

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    Whether you are selling hardware or a streaming service, both rely on the popularity of your content or in this case games. Third party games are very popular but people need a platform to play it on. With PS exclusives being so much more popular than and XB exclusives declining, this is will lead to a similar situation:

    PS5 will dominate XBSX.

    MS has the right idea in creating new IPs and investing in studios so yes, they could very well make new IPs to regain popularity.

    Can you read the numbers:

    Halo - 3.3 million NPD
    Gears - 2 million+ NPD

    Horizon 4 was no where close to these, and hence is nowhere close to covering the gap left by these.

    I have not. I even said H4 and SoT were good successes. Hint: both would do better if XB1 had 87 million install base.

    Already addressed: Nintendo does not affect the 175 million core. Nintendo consoles miss most third party games and rely mostly on their own exclusive software, hence they are consoles that have very little overlap with PS or XB1.

    PS and XB1 has tremendous overlap, hence buying one usually means you don't need the other.
     
  28. Bloodytears

    Bloodytears

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    I will, but I'm too broke for it. Mean, cheapest Sony phone from the previous generations costs here twice as much as my Nokia.

    Again, the main point of Playstation Now on PC is to sell Playstation and it's exclusives. There is no logic, to get lost in market's crowd, they want to you to play their games on their console and have all the money. Nobody really cares about wide audience. In cloud service you not own anything, you just rent Playstation database, and when subscription gone, all games are gone. On console - you bought, you can have it.
     
  29. ImaRobot

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    That's a good hypothetical that we don't know about yet, especially with their push in that direction with the next generation. Which was my point from the beginning. That they did worse doesn't seem to be affecting that area for next generation as they plan to only get more.

    I mean at any point do you ever try to have a decent conversation with out trying to just be a smart ass? I got that, you said that their exclusives are only getting worse, which I replied that no, that isn't exactly the truth. Yes those ones you specifically labeled did worse, but no, others also are doing much much better than they used to. So if you yourself that some are getting worse, and some are getting better, what exactly is the point of statement? Are the covering the gap right this moment? Absolutely not, but they are gaining large amounts of traction. Having a smaller base hasn't stopped that.

    FH3 had 10 million+ players. You yourself said that with GTS reaching 6million players than sales are around 5.5mil at one point, so we can also be on the same page and assume that Horizon was sitting at low 9 million point in sales. Thats a pretty large increase, and while the next iteration is on Game pass now, I would imagine that they're getting a good chunk from that as well. However that's just a guess since we have absolutely no info on that.

    The point of allowing access to Playstation games on PC is to sell more Playstation consoles? I mean, that really doesn't make much sense. What you're saying completely contradicts the fact that "no one cares about wide audience."
     
  30. Bloodytears

    Bloodytears

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    Because you overpay for it, because you overpay for it monthly, because it has Playstation adds everywhere saying buy Playstation, because it's limited for games witch not currently ongoing in a line up. This is showcase, test drive, in other words. And don't forget it's still streaming service with it's real flaws, when Playstation literally have none of them.