GTPNewsWire
Contributing Writer
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This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on August 9th, 2019 in the Automotive News category.
MINI Builds Its 10 Millionth Car, 60 Years After Its First
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Hmmm the Mini
I have an issue with this. The original BMC, BL and Rover Mini (these are company changes only) and the current BMW Mini have absolutely nothing in common, apart from a very loose aesthetic connection.
There are not 10 million Minis, there are so many original designed British Minis and there are so many German designed cars that also happen to be also called the Mini.
You cannot sum the two together and say there are 10 million of the same Mini.
I have an issue with this. The original BMC, BL and Rover Mini (these are company changes only) and the current BMW Mini have absolutely nothing in common, apart from a very loose aesthetic connection.
There are not 10 million Minis, there are so many original designed British Minis and there are so many German designed cars that also happen to be also called the Mini.
You cannot sum the two together and say there are 10 million of the same Mini.
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Yet Volkswagen do for the Golf (and Beetle), Toyota do for the Corolla (and Prius), Mazda do for the MX-5, Ford do with the Mustang, Porsche do with the 911 - in fact every brand I can think off will refer to the sales total of a nameplate, regardless of the number of generations or, revisions.
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45m Corollas, 30m Golfs, 15m 3 Series, 10m Mustangs, 1m 911s, 1m MX-5s.
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OK,
Golf - yeah it's a car that's evolved through different models and remained true to it's original purpose so I'll give that to VW
Beetle - hell no. The original is a car that through its quirky design and engineering choices broke the mould and became a classic, as opposed to being a jelly mould stuck on a Golf chassis which is what the "New Beetle" is - even the engine is in the wrong place. So that's a big nope.
Corolla is the Japanese word for "Generic Daily Driver" isn't it? So if Toyota wants to say they've sold so many millions of generic daily drivers then they can fill their boots as far as I'm concerned.
The MX-5 is a car that's remained true to its roots and purpose right through its evolution, so Mazda has the right to do this here.
Mustang nope - I mean come on, the original and the "re-imagining" don't even look like they're supposed to be related. Honestly I think Ford's marketing department had one 5 minute meeting about the name of the new car, and couldn't even be bothered to give this list a once over. To any Mustangs out there, a piece of advice - do not get into this personalised DNA testing fad as it will not end well for you - Who's ya Daddy?
If there is one manufacturer that can truly and honestly combine sales of each revision of a particular model then it's Porsche with the 911. It's been both evolutionary and revolutionary in equal parts throughout its development over the years, but has remained 100% true to its original ethos. You can put the original 1963 911 right next to 2019 992 and you can see immediately that they have the same genes, and that the 992 is a pure refinement of the original 911. So yeah Porsche wins this one.
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The 911 has always been a boxer-engined, rear-engined, rear-drive, sports coupe. Apart from the four-wheel drive ones. And the switch from air-cooled to water-cooled, which set teeth on edge. And the turbocharging.
The MX-5 has always been a front-engined, longitudinal-engined, naturally aspirated, straight-four, rear-wheel drive, sports convertible. Apart from the PHRT and RF, and the BBR Turbo and Le Mans.
The Mustang has always been a front-engined, longitudinal-engined, naturally aspirated, straight or V6 or V8, rear-wheel drive, sports coupe/convertible. Apart from the four in the Mustang II, the turbo four across two generations and the turbo four today.
The Golf has always been a transverse-engined, front-wheel drive, five-seat hatchback. Apart from the convertible, the estate, the people carrier, the 4WD versions, the cross-country, the V5, the V6, the three-seat Clubsport, the diesels, the hybrid, the electric...
The Corolla has always been a badge. It's just easier to list the things common to the Corolla than the differences, given that it's had every body style, every conceivable power unit, driven both axles (separately and together)...
The Beetle is the Beetle.
Meanwhile the Mini - and the MINI - has always been a small hatchback with a transverse-mounted straight-four in the front driving the front wheels. Aside from some recent three-cylinder engines, the diesel and the electric MINI-E, it pretty much still fits that recipe. The current MINI may be much larger than the original, but it's still smaller than every B-segment hatchback (Fiesta, Clio, Polo, 208) and quite a few A-segment cars (like the Ka) too. Sure, it's got way bigger than the car it took its name from, but guess what else has? Yep, everything - including:
The modern MINI recipe is the same as the old one, but bigger and a bit more premium. Just like the 911, in fact.
Every manufacturer will refer to all cars with the same name as the same car when it comes to totting up sales or production. MINI isn't any different, really.
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What made the original Mini unique was its layout. This layout is no longer unique, but it is still featured in the modern MINIs.
There's no reason to consider the new MINI any less of an evolution of its concept than the other cars mentioned.
There's no reason to consider the new MINI any less of an evolution of its concept than the other cars mentioned.
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Is this the 10 millionth Mini as in the classic Mini + the modern reinterpretations of it; or the 10 millionth Mini meaning the classic Mini + everything under the modern Mini brand?
Because I can see merit in the former even with the misgivings about the current generation, but the latter is completely meaningless even as PR fluff goes.
Because I can see merit in the former even with the misgivings about the current generation, but the latter is completely meaningless even as PR fluff goes.
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Again, I've already read the article. I would not be asking which way BMW was counting numbers if the article said as much.
Some parts of the article imply that the numbers are of the R53/R56/F55 only:
Some parts of the article suggest that the numbers may be for everything BMW has slapped the MINI brand on since discontinuing the original Mini:
Some parts of the article imply that the numbers are of the R53/R56/F55 only:
That ranges from the quotes from MINI employees, the fact that the event was done at the Oxford plant to begin with, and the discussion in this thread by the article author comparing it to other car models with long lives since debut.
Some parts of the article suggest that the numbers may be for everything BMW has slapped the MINI brand on since discontinuing the original Mini:
Hence why I'm asking, because in the case of the latter BMW are very much folding the 600,000 or whatever of the (not particularly "mini," not even remotely British and completely different model) Countryman/Paceman SUVs since debut into that total; at which point any comparison made to the Mustang or Miata or 911 is irrelevant.
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As at the publication of the Q2 2019 reports, MINI had sold 4,624,693 cars, including all brand derivatives, of which 2,887,341 are 3- or 5- door hatchbacks (also meaning the 2- and 4- door hatchbacks) - BMW haven't broken out the numbers for the two hatch configurations separately. They've also not listed the MINI Clubvan separately, so I assume they're in the Clubman figures
Therefore, the headline "MINI builds it 10,000,000th car" is generally speaking, true - accepting that the 5.3million figure is true for the trendy hipster old one (I assume that figure includes stuff like the traveller, the old countryman, the van, maybe the Moke etc. etc.), and accepting that BMW include contract production at VDL and Magna in their own numbers.
Therefore, the headline "MINI builds it 10,000,000th car" is generally speaking, true - accepting that the 5.3million figure is true for the trendy hipster old one (I assume that figure includes stuff like the traveller, the old countryman, the van, maybe the Moke etc. etc.), and accepting that BMW include contract production at VDL and Magna in their own numbers.
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- GTP_Famine
MINI does tend to use the term "MINI" to mean both the brand and (specifically) the three-door hatch pretty much interchangeably.
In this case MINI is saying that the MINI brand now accounts for 10 Megaminis, which includes the 5.3-and-change made by BMC/BL/Rover as Austin, Morris, Wolseley, Riley, Innocenti (and so on) - and then "Mini" at the end of its life - and the Traveller, Countryman, and Pickup bodies (among others), and then the 4.6-and-change made by the MINI brand across its bodystyles thereafter.
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What? The Miura wasn't a LAMBORGHINI? Or is it a Lamborghini?
