Mission 12 - Laguna Seca Ford GT
- Thread starter Swift
- 101 comments
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- 15,481
- UK
I'd say patience is the key with this, the Ford GT is a phenomenal car, in most aspects. You'll soon find it's rythym(Is there another h in it, I'm having a funny five minutes) around the circuit.
After I finished I found 2 things.
1. Manual is so much easier, although if you only ever use Auto this might be a problem. I used to use Auto all the time, switched to Manual and am better of for it.
2. You don't need to push the car to it's limits, obviously drive fast, but not insanely around the corners. Ie. Don't live life on the kerbs.
After I finished I found 2 things.
1. Manual is so much easier, although if you only ever use Auto this might be a problem. I used to use Auto all the time, switched to Manual and am better of for it.
2. You don't need to push the car to it's limits, obviously drive fast, but not insanely around the corners. Ie. Don't live life on the kerbs.
- 392
- Queens, New York City
Mission 12 is good practice for racing at Laguna Seca. It wasn't a difficult Mission because you have laps to warm up and can theoretically make up time on the next lap. That Ford GT LM handles very well, better than the 787B used in another Laguna Seca Mission. In theory, the Ford GT LM could probably catch the Viper in two laps with a good driver. I'm not that good, yet (or maybe ever). The best thing to do is go smooth and steady. There are way of getting through the corkscrew faster, but are a bit riskier if you bounce too hard at the bottom. Here is a decent video to watch to help make it a little easier (NTSC, DS2, MT):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR8WY5BIuMw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR8WY5BIuMw
I am really glad I saw this thread I have have just started doing the driving missions again and I am having a few problems on it, I can get around in 4'20.??? and I think I am something like 11 or 12 seconds behind the leader.
To anybody who said they did it on there first few attempts then I take my hat of to you because I certainly haven't been able to do it that quick.
To anybody who said they did it on there first few attempts then I take my hat of to you because I certainly haven't been able to do it that quick.
- 1,795
The advantage the GT has is this: when in doubt, push it a little farther. This car is relatively tame and forgiving, and the extent to which you can late brke is ridiculous. So, if you need to shorten your lap times, go ahead and punch it, and you'll probably be okay.
Just be careful around the Camaro...
Just be careful around the Camaro...
Thanks to this thread I've never seen such a turn around on a level before (probably on any video game I've ever played) I haven't beaten it yet but I got too second place and about 6 seconds behind the 1st place car.
Who would have thought that slightly less braking would be so effective.
Who would have thought that slightly less braking would be so effective.
I loved this mission. It is by far my favorite. The car handles great and has good enough speed. The key I found was to pick out an object that you should start braking from that way your braking will be consistint each lap and you can make small improvments as needed. I hate the 13th mission. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!
Another thing the turns are a balance of coming in fast and going out fast. You can't roll into the corners and gun it out you need to find a happy median.
Another thing the turns are a balance of coming in fast and going out fast. You can't roll into the corners and gun it out you need to find a happy median.
Just like to add that I've passed the mission now, by 0.15 of a second or so.
Spurred me on and I did 2 other 3 lap battles the same afternoon with relative ease.
As a probably below average driver (well on this forum anyway) I found that leaving the missions and doing harder races in GT mode was the key for me. Basically learn to drive, instead of easy 1-20 point races I did 50-100+ races as a minnimum for a while (especially 1 make races) and really learnt how to brake and keep speed through corners. Came back to the missions and didn't really strugle at all once I had the feel of the car.
Good luck folks.
Teshu
Spurred me on and I did 2 other 3 lap battles the same afternoon with relative ease.
As a probably below average driver (well on this forum anyway) I found that leaving the missions and doing harder races in GT mode was the key for me. Basically learn to drive, instead of easy 1-20 point races I did 50-100+ races as a minnimum for a while (especially 1 make races) and really learnt how to brake and keep speed through corners. Came back to the missions and didn't really strugle at all once I had the feel of the car.
Good luck folks.
Teshu
Passed both Laguna Seca missions a couple days ago. For me, driving the 787 first was beneficial, to really improve my lines and get used to driving it aggressively. Once I had the rhythm of the track down and moved to the GT, I really had no problem getting on a winning pace, but I still took about half an hour actually making three clean laps of it. The 5th and 3rd place passing points caused most of my headaches:
- 5th - best to catch early on the straight before the corkscrew - several times I was too fast and caught him in the turn before, throwing off my line (I usually ended up in the sand, so if you're in that position just be patient through the turn and out accelerate him) - and obviously if you're too slow you have to pass too close to the corkscrew.
- 4th - no problems here - will be anywhere from the last turn through the straight
- 3rd - the dastardly camaro caused most of my retries. Same passing points as 5th, but for me he was usually in my braking zone for the corkscrew, which threw me off and I rarely recovered. If you can get past him before the corkscrew, it should be a clean finish.
- 2nd - toward the tail end of the start/finish straight - the few times I got this far I passed him on the inside of the first turns.
- 1st - just after the corkscrew if you're still on pace - I had slowed a bit and passed him in the last turn.
Driving quickly but not great will net about 7 seconds per lap - my lap splits were approx. +13.5, +6.5, -.35 - but the main benchmarks are to be in 5th and 3rd before you hit the brakes for the corkscrew on laps 1 and 2. If you've done that, even an average third lap should get the win.
- 5th - best to catch early on the straight before the corkscrew - several times I was too fast and caught him in the turn before, throwing off my line (I usually ended up in the sand, so if you're in that position just be patient through the turn and out accelerate him) - and obviously if you're too slow you have to pass too close to the corkscrew.
- 4th - no problems here - will be anywhere from the last turn through the straight
- 3rd - the dastardly camaro caused most of my retries. Same passing points as 5th, but for me he was usually in my braking zone for the corkscrew, which threw me off and I rarely recovered. If you can get past him before the corkscrew, it should be a clean finish.
- 2nd - toward the tail end of the start/finish straight - the few times I got this far I passed him on the inside of the first turns.
- 1st - just after the corkscrew if you're still on pace - I had slowed a bit and passed him in the last turn.
Driving quickly but not great will net about 7 seconds per lap - my lap splits were approx. +13.5, +6.5, -.35 - but the main benchmarks are to be in 5th and 3rd before you hit the brakes for the corkscrew on laps 1 and 2. If you've done that, even an average third lap should get the win.
i've tried about 6 times and gave up - closest was about 0.8 secs away - i'll try it again soon - 9
Can't really understand your problems, this mission is one of the easiest, IMO 
The GT Spec II is also one of my top 25 favorite cars
The GT Spec II is also one of my top 25 favorite cars
- 5,629
- North Carolina
- Droptop2001gt
I always thought this mission was too easy. I don't remember having any trouble with it at all. Of course, missions using slower cars always gave me a lot more trouble.
Here's the main problem I think about mission 12. I still have not beaten it, and I got a feeling I'm on my way towards an ending-attempt-number like AMG but I've gotton better. Anyhow, obviously going 100 around the turns in mission 12 is pretty much impossible, however I don't think saying "learning good braking" is enough. The missing extra peice of info is braking can break your traction, wreaking havoc on your driving line even if your tires are not breaking loose! Let me rephrase that.. I've noticed going into turns HARD and braking HARD leads to a real major problem, which is exiting with a starting speed of something much much lower than what it should be (ideally) and sometimes even winding up in the sand, but obviously speeding through the turns isn't going to work.
I've found that when I'm braking and wind up into the sand, 9 times out of 10 it's because I was on the brake. For whatever reason, being on the brake pulls you out of the driving line pretty hardcore. The solution I found is to stay off both gas AND brake and just be on the steering, alot of times you'll glide right on around the turn and be placed in a much better situation than just hardcore braking. Now like I said obviously you can't just glide around the corner at like 100, you will still need to brake, but I think alot of times those of us having problems, focus on getting the driving line right and hardcore braking. That'll get you close, but by finding the speed at which the GT can get around the corner (following the driving line of course) without braking and just steering should line people up for success. So let me say it again in a nutshell, get off both of the damn buttons!
I've found, by following the driving line I can damn near get around the turn after the first hairpin without any braking at all (providing I'm not on the gas). The GT seems to have better slide-traction when not applying brakes. I think this has something to do with why how giving a car the beans on some turns can pull a car towards the inside of a turn and around it. Physics people will recognize this by the term "tangential velocity". I think in this case it is a matter of it's a Gran Touring car and the physics of pushing the car through the turns via gas is just too much for the traction coefficient of the tires on the pavement but braking keeps the front tires from spinning eliminating -all- pulling of the car through the turn and so by not doing both (braking and gas) you place yourself in that sweet spot you need to be in. I had a similiar college physics problem like this, I can't remember the problem exactly but it had to do with how fast a car could go around a turn. I could probably do up the physics and give actual numbers but I really don't think that's important so much as it is to just understand that there is a connection between not braking (or gasing) and traction (even if your tires are not breaking loose).
Just something to think about if anyone is still having trouble. As I said I'm still haivng trouble but I think now seeing this and actually seeing my overall ability in this mission improve, I think I should be not far from actually getting to the 1st place guy. (Yes I still have not gotton to the 1st place guy yet)
On a side note, I had another thought, anyone try the emergency brake, and try drifting around some of the turns? I know the thing can whip around outta control pretty quick if you're not careful with it, but it might be something to try.
EDIT: I also have "Fine Turning Adjustments" off in the player settings, not sure if that has anything to do with my traction issues, but without it I find I have better control over how far I can turn the "virtual wheel".
EDIT 2: I thought about and noticed a couple of other things that might help too. First, if you do not think you will finish the race in first, complete it anyhow, just so you have a replay available. You're not going to be watching yourself but the first place guy. More specifically what gear he is in and how he is taking the turns. Interestingly enough, there are two turns you can pick up on him at, the turn (The left one) just after the corkscrew, If you get on it just right which is pretty easy you can drift all the way around the first half and all the way around the second half, if you position yourself on the left side before the next turn (the right one) you can drift around that one too. Second, you can pick up on him a little bit ib that last turn, he goes all the way down to 1st gear, if you get this turn just right (turn before you get to the turn) you can get negotiate this turn in 2nd. Third, on the corkscrew, he hits those rumble strips, EVEN the left side one. He takes that turn wide. I know myself, probably others, get fearful of the hard left (1st half) of the corkscrew. He takes it wide early on and drives into the corner overtop of the rumble strip, lining him up with the second rumble strip. In reality it seems the best way to tackle this turn. Seems obvious but taking this turn on I always just kinda gone with what felt right which was to take it wide and thread the needle, which places you on the pavement between the two points of the turn. This is normally the correct way, but because you're exiting on a turn it's not a true "chicane" and so he takes it by taking the first half fairly tight and literaly riding on the rumble strip. In other words he threads the needle by shooting for a right exit instead of a straight exit.
I've found that when I'm braking and wind up into the sand, 9 times out of 10 it's because I was on the brake. For whatever reason, being on the brake pulls you out of the driving line pretty hardcore. The solution I found is to stay off both gas AND brake and just be on the steering, alot of times you'll glide right on around the turn and be placed in a much better situation than just hardcore braking. Now like I said obviously you can't just glide around the corner at like 100, you will still need to brake, but I think alot of times those of us having problems, focus on getting the driving line right and hardcore braking. That'll get you close, but by finding the speed at which the GT can get around the corner (following the driving line of course) without braking and just steering should line people up for success. So let me say it again in a nutshell, get off both of the damn buttons!
I've found, by following the driving line I can damn near get around the turn after the first hairpin without any braking at all (providing I'm not on the gas). The GT seems to have better slide-traction when not applying brakes. I think this has something to do with why how giving a car the beans on some turns can pull a car towards the inside of a turn and around it. Physics people will recognize this by the term "tangential velocity". I think in this case it is a matter of it's a Gran Touring car and the physics of pushing the car through the turns via gas is just too much for the traction coefficient of the tires on the pavement but braking keeps the front tires from spinning eliminating -all- pulling of the car through the turn and so by not doing both (braking and gas) you place yourself in that sweet spot you need to be in. I had a similiar college physics problem like this, I can't remember the problem exactly but it had to do with how fast a car could go around a turn. I could probably do up the physics and give actual numbers but I really don't think that's important so much as it is to just understand that there is a connection between not braking (or gasing) and traction (even if your tires are not breaking loose).
Just something to think about if anyone is still having trouble. As I said I'm still haivng trouble but I think now seeing this and actually seeing my overall ability in this mission improve, I think I should be not far from actually getting to the 1st place guy. (Yes I still have not gotton to the 1st place guy yet)
On a side note, I had another thought, anyone try the emergency brake, and try drifting around some of the turns? I know the thing can whip around outta control pretty quick if you're not careful with it, but it might be something to try.
EDIT: I also have "Fine Turning Adjustments" off in the player settings, not sure if that has anything to do with my traction issues, but without it I find I have better control over how far I can turn the "virtual wheel".
EDIT 2: I thought about and noticed a couple of other things that might help too. First, if you do not think you will finish the race in first, complete it anyhow, just so you have a replay available. You're not going to be watching yourself but the first place guy. More specifically what gear he is in and how he is taking the turns. Interestingly enough, there are two turns you can pick up on him at, the turn (The left one) just after the corkscrew, If you get on it just right which is pretty easy you can drift all the way around the first half and all the way around the second half, if you position yourself on the left side before the next turn (the right one) you can drift around that one too. Second, you can pick up on him a little bit ib that last turn, he goes all the way down to 1st gear, if you get this turn just right (turn before you get to the turn) you can get negotiate this turn in 2nd. Third, on the corkscrew, he hits those rumble strips, EVEN the left side one. He takes that turn wide. I know myself, probably others, get fearful of the hard left (1st half) of the corkscrew. He takes it wide early on and drives into the corner overtop of the rumble strip, lining him up with the second rumble strip. In reality it seems the best way to tackle this turn. Seems obvious but taking this turn on I always just kinda gone with what felt right which was to take it wide and thread the needle, which places you on the pavement between the two points of the turn. This is normally the correct way, but because you're exiting on a turn it's not a true "chicane" and so he takes it by taking the first half fairly tight and literaly riding on the rumble strip. In other words he threads the needle by shooting for a right exit instead of a straight exit.
Given that I just beat this mission myself recently (DS2, AT) I thought I might add some words of support made piquant by the recency of my experience.
The car can not trail brake - at least not in a useful way. This is most evident to me on the turn before the corkscrew. I had so much grief with this corner until I worked this simple truth out - you can not turn while braking in this car. If I brake and attempt to turn while still on the brakes I end up in the sand. On the other hand, if I brake in a straight line then get on the gas and turn for this corner I can take it so much better and faster.
So a modification to your observations, you can be on the gas for a fair few of the corners but being on the brakes is fatal. Coasting the corners is fine - but you'll be faster if you are on the gas for more of the corners... slow in, fast out.
*nods* Yeah I've noticed that I just didn't wanna give people the wrong impression and have them think they can slam on the gas all of the turn It's like by not braking and not accelerating you put yourself deadsmack into that fine balance just by not doing those things, but you can push those margins a little bit.
It's like by not braking and not accelerating you put yourself deadsmack into that fine balance just by not doing those things, but you can push those margins a little bit.Just a little curious though..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR8WY5BIuMw
This guy seems to fly through the turns, and if you listen careful there's minimal "tire screeching" meaning he's not hard-breaking-loose and he's not really creeping out towards the outside of the circle meaning he's not soft-breaking-loose. someone in one of the replies on his video said you can change the driving settings in a mission.. How? I've yet to find this option.. He's talking about turning on TCS (Traction Control System) right? Something else too, I don't understand how he's cranking out so much speed long before he gets to the turn, I seem to match that speed while at the turn and way too late to be downshifting and brake/gasing.. I smell a action replay code on this video maybe it's just me...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR8WY5BIuMw
This guy seems to fly through the turns, and if you listen careful there's minimal "tire screeching" meaning he's not hard-breaking-loose and he's not really creeping out towards the outside of the circle meaning he's not soft-breaking-loose. someone in one of the replies on his video said you can change the driving settings in a mission.. How? I've yet to find this option.. He's talking about turning on TCS (Traction Control System) right? Something else too, I don't understand how he's cranking out so much speed long before he gets to the turn, I seem to match that speed while at the turn and way too late to be downshifting and brake/gasing.. I smell a action replay code on this video maybe it's just me...
- 212
- Oslo, Norway
- alhajoth
I've had a look at that video, and I see absolutely nothing that would indicate he's cheating. And you can not turn off the TCS on any of the driving missions, the guy who made that comment is simply wrong.
If you study that video, and learn the lines he takes and his braking points, you should be able to beat this mission.
SportWagon
Premium
- 1,822
- Punkeydoodles Corners, Ontario, Canada. (aka GT2t
You can easily tell if you're on-schedule with this as you pass the start/finish line. Your time should be slightly below the even "10" seconds.
< 1:30 first lap
< 2:50 second lap
< 4:10 third lap
Eventually I managed it! I needed to sneak by the Camaro at the Corkscrew on lap 2, but good drivers will have passed it before that, but don't necessarily need to.
Perhaps this will be useful, reposted?
Or, I wonder, is the required time even less for the PAL version?
And instead of overpowering the enduro, perhaps use Arcade Mode for practice? (Though that hasn't enabled me to crack Mission 29 (Corvettes@Infineon) after a week of trying).
Well how is he getting to 144mph before the first turn? I've tried shifting at redlines and shifting just before. Best I can get to is like 125 mph.. Unless he IS in fact actually at 144 when I would normally be braking.. hmmm guess I'll just keep plugging away at it..
Yeah those times definately help just one thing though, it seems to be the common consensus (or is it census?) from some on this forum that if you don't pass the car (in front of you at the beggining, I dunno which it is don't really pay attention to the car types) before the corkscrew you're..well.. scr*wed.. to be honest that's pretty daunting, considering I've prolly wracked up about 30 tries and have not passed that car before the corkscrew yet, not once.. I'm on the NTSC version btw (though you might have guessed that from the mph unit I mentioned earlier, though I'm sure like the US version the Euro version allows switching units too).. Thanks for the info on not being able to modify the tsc setting on the driving missions.. I thought it was me...
-- StakFallT
P.S. From the downshifting I've seen that is necessary to actually win this mission, is it just me or would an engine or a tranny (even a gt one) barf all over itself if you downshifted twice already doing 5.5k - 6k rpm when the redline is 7k? Kinda bothers me everytime I do it, even though I know I need to do it.. I guess maybe because my car irl is stick and I wouldn't dream of doing that, but then again my car isn't a gt car and I'm not downshifting twice, only once. I almost twitch everytime I see the backfire flame coming out of the exhaust on the car in the game, kinda messes me up..
Yeah those times definately help just one thing though, it seems to be the common consensus (or is it census?) from some on this forum that if you don't pass the car (in front of you at the beggining, I dunno which it is don't really pay attention to the car types) before the corkscrew you're..well.. scr*wed.. to be honest that's pretty daunting, considering I've prolly wracked up about 30 tries and have not passed that car before the corkscrew yet, not once.. I'm on the NTSC version btw (though you might have guessed that from the mph unit I mentioned earlier, though I'm sure like the US version the Euro version allows switching units too).. Thanks for the info on not being able to modify the tsc setting on the driving missions.. I thought it was me...
-- StakFallT
P.S. From the downshifting I've seen that is necessary to actually win this mission, is it just me or would an engine or a tranny (even a gt one) barf all over itself if you downshifted twice already doing 5.5k - 6k rpm when the redline is 7k? Kinda bothers me everytime I do it, even though I know I need to do it.. I guess maybe because my car irl is stick and I wouldn't dream of doing that, but then again my car isn't a gt car and I'm not downshifting twice, only once. I almost twitch everytime I see the backfire flame coming out of the exhaust on the car in the game, kinda messes me up..
Pretty much.
If you only catch him at the corkscrew or after it really messes up your line and you loose more time (or if you don't change your line you get a 5 second penalty) and then it is just a struggle.
I think it is possible to do if you haven't passed him by then - but that is only if you have the skill on subsequent laps that mean you really could have passed him before then. Kind of a catch 22 - if you aren't able to catch him by then your lines and times are probably too slow for the remaining 2 1/2 laps to win anyway.
yeah that definately makes sense..
Something else I found to be helping me is two other things, I've always kinda noticed this but never realized how good it can be.. The Square, Circle, X, and Triangle are infact 2-stage analogs.. meaning there is a slight pressure sensor in them but only to the extent of it's either half on or all the way on, which means I don't need to slam on the brake, I start half-breaking early then go further on them later.. Kinda like inch my way up to the corner and it doesn't seem to affect my times in a bad way (it seems to actually improve them) because all in all it's still the same amount of reduction in speed, just not all at once requiring you to have computer-like reflexes. Reminds me of a 2D kinematic college phsyics problem where it was something like by increasing T (time) you can improve a car crash. Was demonstrated by a dropping ball and following it down with the hand as it's being caught.
Something else too I noticed is sometimes going around a turn is all about how soon can you let go of the steering. The whole "A car picks speed up faster when going perfectly straight (even if it doesn't follow the road)" thing. A slight correction at the end is better then correcting during the turn and causing you to get on the gas later. Combined with these two I'm now catching the first car right at the corkscrew. I did catch em once before the corkscrew earlier, but only once. I think I'm choking now
Something else I found to be helping me is two other things, I've always kinda noticed this but never realized how good it can be.. The Square, Circle, X, and Triangle are infact 2-stage analogs.. meaning there is a slight pressure sensor in them but only to the extent of it's either half on or all the way on, which means I don't need to slam on the brake, I start half-breaking early then go further on them later.. Kinda like inch my way up to the corner and it doesn't seem to affect my times in a bad way (it seems to actually improve them) because all in all it's still the same amount of reduction in speed, just not all at once requiring you to have computer-like reflexes. Reminds me of a 2D kinematic college phsyics problem where it was something like by increasing T (time) you can improve a car crash. Was demonstrated by a dropping ball and following it down with the hand as it's being caught.
Something else too I noticed is sometimes going around a turn is all about how soon can you let go of the steering. The whole "A car picks speed up faster when going perfectly straight (even if it doesn't follow the road)" thing. A slight correction at the end is better then correcting during the turn and causing you to get on the gas later. Combined with these two I'm now catching the first car right at the corkscrew. I did catch em once before the corkscrew earlier, but only once. I think I'm choking now
Actually, they are fully analogue with 256 levels of pressure. But good luck with controlling that all within a few mm of travel. At any rate, I've never bothered to try that hard - mostly I'll blip the accelerator and slam on the brakes; anything else is just too risky and I manage all right.
However, if you want to try it, the right stick gives you much better control over acceleration and braking - up for go faster and down for slow down.
