Monza track limit exploit, saving 5+ seconds per lap

[DGXR]

They could just put a wall

Exactly, this is what they did at the chicane in Nurb GP. The wall does not fit the aesthetics of the course because it does not exist IRL. But this is the best solution, by far. Can't believe PD let these shortcuts slip through to the game.
I discovered them during the 30-lap Monza enduro, just messing around to see what happened (I was so far ahead that any penalty would not matter to race results... alas no penalty).

 

[tofuhero]

I've never understood the rationale for allowing penalties to be scrubbed off. What purpose does it serve? It undermines the whole purpose of penalties when most of the time you can scrub off a penalty without altering your normal pace. I think this ability has got to be removed.

 

[Rangeraus]

I've never understood the rationale for allowing penalties to be scrubbed off. What purpose does it serve? It undermines the whole purpose of penalties when most of the time you can scrub off a penalty without altering your normal pace. I think this ability has got to be removed.

I disagree. Ever got a 5 or 10 second penalty that you didn't deserve? On some tracks like Northern Isle your race will be finished.

The system could be improved but scrapping it wouldn't be a good move in my opinion.

 

[Jump_Ace]

They could just put a wall

There was one event where walls were put up at Monza for both of those first chicanes. I don't recall which event it was though.


Jerome

 

[tofuhero]

I disagree. Ever got a 5 or 10 second penalty that you didn't deserve? On some tracks like Northern Isle your race will be finished.

The system could be improved but scrapping it wouldn't be a good move in my opinion.

The amount of times I've had an unfair penalty is far less than the legitimate penalties I've gotten from pushing too hard and cutting into the track limits or accidentally hitting someone. And I fully admit scrubbing penalties when I can. I'm sure most people do. But at this point they might as well turn off the penalty system because it doesn't work.

This kind of "but think of the children" argument always comes up any time someone suggests a change that will punish cheaters and unsportsmanlike behavior, and for a while I agreed. But at this point I'm sick of the people who are abusing the existing system -- even at the SR S level -- and am all for harsher measures, even if that means some innocent people will get punished a bit harder. I mean, this kind of change has to go hand-in-hand with improved detection of who is at fault in situations where someone rams into you or pushes you off the track, but we can't just stay stuck in this mindset of being afraid to punish people for bad behavior.

I also think there should be a black flag system and even Sport mode suspensions, but I also think this requires a manual review system. I want it to be fair to everyone, but I want something to change. The status quo is not fair to those who are trying to race cleanly and fairly.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The amount of times I've had an unfair penalty is far less than the legitimate penalties I've gotten from pushing too hard and cutting into the track limits or accidentally hitting someone. And I fully admit scrubbing penalties when I can. I'm sure most people do. But at this point they might as well turn off the penalty system because it doesn't work.

This kind of "but think of the children" argument always comes up any time someone suggests a change that will punish cheaters and unsportsmanlike behavior, and for a while I agreed. But at this point I'm sick of the people who are abusing the existing system -- even at the SR S level -- and am all for harsher measures, even if that means some innocent people will get punished a bit harder. I mean, this kind of change has to go hand-in-hand with improved detection of who is at fault in situations where someone rams into you or pushes you off the track, but we can't just stay stuck in this mindset of being afraid to punish people for bad behavior.

I also think there should be a black flag system and even Sport mode suspensions, but I also think this requires a manual review system. I want it to be fair to everyone, but I want something to change. The status quo is not fair to those who are trying to race cleanly and fairly.

"But think of the children". Brilliant:tup:👍, I might just borrow that. But you're right of course, being able to scrub off penalties without sacrificing pace or actual lap time is silly. It only encourages bad behaviour rather than discouraging it as intended. It should be applied only on the parts of the course that are defined as hard acceleration zones, typically from corner exit to braking zone. Coasting through a braking zone and around a corner shouldn't scrub off penalties.

 

[Guffaluff]

Hm, was just doing the free qualifying for that race, putting down a high 1:58 lap, while the top time was 1:55.xxx. Watched the replay and didn't see any wrongdoings. No brutal cutting or something in that direction. This is Europe btw.

Where are you located?

 

[zzz_pt]

Hm, was just doing the free qualifying for that race, putting down a high 1:58 lap, while the top time was 1:55.xxx. Watched the replay and didn't see any wrongdoings. No brutal cutting or something in that direction. This is Europe btw.

Where are you located?

Lap times with corner cutting were deleted in the afternoon.

 

[LennyB]

Did they hot patch the teleport because if they didn't what good does resetting the leader boards? I'm not near a ps4 is why I ask.

 

[Guffaluff]

Lap times with corner cutting were deleted in the afternoon.

Ah ok, that explains

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Didn't someone post a gif of ai doing this?

The amount of times I've had an unfair penalty is far less than the legitimate penalties I've gotten from pushing too hard and cutting into the track limits or accidentally hitting someone. And I fully admit scrubbing penalties when I can. I'm sure most people do. But at this point they might as well turn off the penalty system because it doesn't work.

This kind of "but think of the children" argument always comes up any time someone suggests a change that will punish cheaters and unsportsmanlike behavior, and for a while I agreed. But at this point I'm sick of the people who are abusing the existing system -- even at the SR S level -- and am all for harsher measures, even if that means some innocent people will get punished a bit harder. I mean, this kind of change has to go hand-in-hand with improved detection of who is at fault in situations where someone rams into you or pushes you off the track, but we can't just stay stuck in this mindset of being afraid to punish people for bad behavior.

I also think there should be a black flag system and even Sport mode suspensions, but I also think this requires a manual review system. I want it to be fair to everyone, but I want something to change. The status quo is not fair to those who are trying to race cleanly and fairly.

Today, all I've had were unfair penalties, yet I fully support to make them permanent asap. I counted how many races I could do being the only one without a red dot today on Monza. 6 out of 11. Two I shared the no red dot glory with 1 and 2 other people. And in 3 others I got undeserved time penalties.

Here's a quick compilation of most of my race results today

Please make the penalties permanent. It will be a good laugh

 

[Robben]

"But think of the children". Brilliant:tup:👍, I might just borrow that. But you're right of course, being able to scrub off penalties without sacrificing pace or actual lap time is silly. It only encourages bad behaviour rather than discouraging it as intended. It should be applied only on the parts of the course that are defined as hard acceleration zones, typically from corner exit to braking zone. Coasting through a braking zone and around a corner shouldn't scrub off penalties.

It doesn't. There are minimum speeds for penalty reduction depending on the part of the track. Even on a long straight you have to go under a certain (presumably pre-determined) speed as opposed to just lifting off. Even round corners, you would have to slow to a crawl to actually get a reduction.

 

[Scaff]

The amount of times I've had an unfair penalty is far less than the legitimate penalties I've gotten from pushing too hard and cutting into the track limits or accidentally hitting someone. And I fully admit scrubbing penalties when I can. I'm sure most people do. But at this point they might as well turn off the penalty system because it doesn't work.

This kind of "but think of the children" argument always comes up any time someone suggests a change that will punish cheaters and unsportsmanlike behavior, and for a while I agreed. But at this point I'm sick of the people who are abusing the existing system -- even at the SR S level -- and am all for harsher measures, even if that means some innocent people will get punished a bit harder. I mean, this kind of change has to go hand-in-hand with improved detection of who is at fault in situations where someone rams into you or pushes you off the track, but we can't just stay stuck in this mindset of being afraid to punish people for bad behavior.

I also think there should be a black flag system and even Sport mode suspensions, but I also think this requires a manual review system. I want it to be fair to everyone, but I want something to change. The status quo is not fair to those who are trying to race cleanly and fairly.

Its not even that difficult to improve the penalty system, as two other titles already have much more robust systems in place.

PD should not tell you how long you get for a penalty, just that you have to slow down, and that slow down needs to be slower than pace, not something you can burn off in the next braking zone. In not knowing how long it will be drivers will be more wary of getting a penalty and 'game' when to take it.

Get more than 'x' number of penalties and you get a drive through that needs to be served before the last lap, fail to do so and you get DQ'd.

Those gaining positions by cutting track should have to return the places within 30 seconds, fail to do so and you get a drive through that needs to be served before the last lap, fail to do so and you get DQ'd.

The above will not be perfect, nor will it always be fair (no penalty system will ever be), but it would be a lot better than what we have now.

 

[tofuhero]

Its not even that difficult to improve the penalty system, as two other titles already have much more robust systems in place.

PD should not tell you how long you get for a penalty, just that you have to slow down, and that slow down needs to be slower than pace, not something you can burn off in the next braking zone. In not knowing how long it will be drivers will be more wary of getting a penalty and 'game' when to take it.

Get more than 'x' number of penalties and you get a drive through that needs to be served before the last lap, fail to do so and you get DQ'd.

Those gaining positions by cutting track should have to return the places within 30 seconds, fail to do so and you get a drive through that needs to be served before the last lap, fail to do so and you get DQ'd.

The above will not be perfect, nor will it always be fair (no penalty system will ever be), but it would be a lot better than what we have now.

While that is indeed clever, I'd really like to get away from a penalty system that requires people to slow down when there's no yellow flag out. It just creates an impediment to other drivers.

 

[Scaff]

While that is indeed clever, I'd really like to get away from a penalty system that requires people to slow down when there's no yellow flag out. It just creates an impediment to other drivers.

Then a system in which you cut the track 'x' number of times gives you a drive through could be used, however all drivers will then do is work out what 'x' is and cut the track x-1 per race with no hit.

You could also use a system that doesn't slow you down but gives you a time penalty, however that brings up issues of actual position vs road position.

Finally (that I can think of, off the top of my head) you have the use of obstacles or 'sticky grass', however as these are either hated by many (sticky grass) or would change the track from reality, I can see many object to them.

Its unfortunately a case that no solution is perfect (however the cut x number and get a drive through is the closest to most real world regs), and the slow down for x amount of time over the next lap isn't ideal, it is one that works reasonably well in on-line racing.

 

[Amaru]

It's not even close. At Maggiore it's not corner cutting. You don't get penalties and your car doesn't respawn after the corners. This argument is ridiculous.

You can argue the track limits are generous, but no one is cutting corners at Maggiore. The track limits are simply wide.

If you're referring to the turn that PD have clearly forgot to set proper penalty parameters at, my friend, then you are most definitely cutting an entire corner. The apex of that very corner is to the left of the cone, not to the right.

That turn a long with the one leading up to it resemble T8 & T9 on the Hongaroring (without elevation change) and if you take T9 as you take your Maggiore turn, your laptime would not count for cutting complete apex of T9.

 

[ntahla]

So we can even exploit this on daily race, what a farce...

 

[Johnnypenso]

If you're referring to the turn that PD have clearly forgot to set proper penalty parameters at, my friend, then you are most definitely cutting an entire corner. The apex of that very corner is to the left of the cone, not to the right.

That turn a long with the one leading up to it resemble T8 & T9 on the Hongaroring (without elevation change) and if you take T9 as you take your Maggiore turn, your laptime would not count for cutting complete apex of T9.

This has been argued ad nauseum. If there are no penalties to taking the corner 10 feet inside the curb then those are the track limits that PD set, not the imaginary ones in your head. Feel free to follow either one though, it's your game.

 

[Amaru]

This has been argued ad nauseum. If there are no penalties to taking the corner 10 feet inside the curb then those are the track limits that PD set, not the imaginary ones in your head. Feel free to follow either one though, it's your game.

That's just my point, said corner doesn't have a tracklimit -programmed- , yet. It's that simple to me, from a devs point of view rather than a racers POV. Only Yamauchi-San himself can convince me that said turn on Maggiore has a track limit on the inside of the corner programmed.

The devs are humans, humans forget things. It'll be patched sooner or later, until then I don't care how people drive it because I won't race that track until said corner is fixed.