More proof that Ford is holding out on the Americans.

  • Thread starter Thread starter JCE
  • 95 comments
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Americans, would you buy these if it was available in America?

  • Total voters
    41
I also loved the GTO--I think it would of been much more successful in the original Holden Monaro (named Pontiac Monaro) trim instead of naming it the GTO. There is just too much history and fanfare for the GTO to just simply rebadge a non-American car for the job.
 
I think it would've seen similar success regardless of the name - in fact if anything the name gave it at least a slight sales boost, since the name is so recognizable. Either way - bad products don't sell, and according to the public, the GTO was bad. I disagree, but concede to some of their points.
 
M5Power
I think it would've seen similar success regardless of the name - in fact if anything the name gave it at least a slight sales boost, since the name is so recognizable. Either way - bad products don't sell, and according to the public, the GTO was bad. I disagree, but concede to some of their points.
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Lets review the points -- and see if Ford would be falling prey to the same issues by bringing the Falcon here.

All I can think of for (perceived) issues with the GTO were bland styling and excessive weight.

The Falcon's styling certainly isn't bland when compared to *yawn* the other sedans Ford offers in the US.

As to the weight--3406 lbs for the Falcon. Lighter than the Five Hundred, so no problems there.

Oh yes, and there was the lack of trunk space in the GTO, because Pontiac had to relocate the gas tank into the trunk so they would not burst into flames during rear-end collisions. I'm not so sure where the gas tank is on the Falcon, but I bet it's in the same place as on the old GTO, because that is the best spot for traction in a RWD car. That could be a problem.

Did I miss anything?
 
VIPERGTSR01
Huh? Lowest model we have here? Not only did the GTO come standard with the LS2 engine (we had to get a HSV for the LS2) but it was much cheaper than what we pay aswell. The US 05 GTO was better than any Monaro CV8.
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i meant that what the americans know as the GTO is only the CV8 here thus being the base model as the CV6 was cut i'm pretty sure... boy you americans must have got jerked for the monaro then, paying as much as a beemer...
 
skip0110
Did I miss anything?
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I think the Pontiac badge hurt it, especially because they were pitching it against Infiniti and BMW, but Ford can't do anything about that. Unless they want to sell the vehicles as Mercurys - then women can buy them!!

American hating Australian TYP something
i meant that what the americans know as the GTO is only the CV8 here thus being the base model as the CV6 was cut i'm pretty sure... boy you americans must have got jerked for the monaro then, paying as much as a beemer...
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In the GTO's last year of production we paid $32300, which is $41300 AUD, for a 400-horsepower 6-liter V8, leather, a 6-CD changer and 17-inch Z-rated alloys. What did you pay?
 
I don't see what bringing the Falcon over here now would do. Putting a big engine in a Crown Vic would accomplish the exact same thing, sans exterior styling. I believe they are both about as old as each other.
 
Toronado
I don't see what bringing the Falcon over here now would do. Putting a big engine in a Crown Vic would accomplish the exact same thing, sans exterior styling.
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We've all come to a consensus that exterior styling is a necessity, or you'll end up with a GTO-level disaster.
 
M5Power
We've all come to a consensus that exterior styling is a necessity, or you'll end up with a GTO-level disaster.
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I'm pretty sure that Ford could restyle the car for less than the cost of localization, emissions and crash test compliance would be. Granted, they would probably screw it up, but we are speaking hypothetically. Hell, all they would really need to do would be to blank it out like on the Marauder and it would look bad-ass enough already
JCE3000GT
Good god, once again Aussie exterior car designs are SO far ahead of anything American and most non-German European in my eyes.
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Non-German European cars:
159.jpg

Brera_1.jpg

XJ.jpg

C70_bk.jpg

German, European car:
6er_bk.jpg

Hmmm.
 
Toronado
I'm pretty sure that Ford could restyle the car for less than the cost of localization, emissions and crash test compliance would be. Granted, they would probably screw it up, but we are speaking hypothetically.
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Wouldn't they need a new platform? The Crown Victoria's is fifteen years old.
 
Toronado
And I'd take 6 months over 10 years.
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I want to hate those things but I can't. Yummy.

No, but I believe the Lotus Esprit almost was when it was ended. And wouldn't you rather have a Lotus than a Saab?
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I mean, I dunno. Presumably, the Lotus would break down so frequently that I'd never be able to get to work. But I'd rather not be in to work at all than have to arrive in a Saab 9-5. There's trade-off there.
 
M5Power
I mean, I dunno. Presumably, the Lotus would break down so frequently that I'd never be able to get to work.
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But if it didn't break down you would get to work in an incredible amount of speed. And even if it did you would have the fool proof and totally legally binding excuse that you were driving a British car.
And, come on. It's a Saab! When don't they break down. Haven't you ever heard that joke? And then you would be fired for owning a Saab, even if you did make it to work. Do you want to be fired?
 
Toronado
But if it didn't break down you would get to work in an incredible amount of speed. And even if it did you would have the fool proof and totally legally binding excuse that you were driving a British car.
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Incredible amount of speed? Lord. Those old four-cylinder Esprits have probably lost something like 100 horsepower. Each.

And, come on. It's a Saab! When don't they break down. Haven't you ever heard that joke? And then you would be fired for owning a Saab, even if you did make it to work. Do you want to be fired?[/SIZE][/FONT]
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Fired and ostracized. Nothing makes me happier than the fact that when you type 'Saab 9-5' into google search the first two images that come up are a 9-5 being destroyed and a hearse.
 
M5Power
Incredible amount of speed? Lord. Those old four-cylinder Esprits have probably lost something like 100 horsepower. Each.
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Well, then, that wouldn't be a 30 year old new car, then, would it? A four cylinder non-turbo Esprit would just be a 30 year old car. A V8 Esprit, however...[/loophole]
Or, you could import a New Old Beetle.
 
don't worry emmy, maybe one day youre pez maccas job will pay enough to get a decent car and maybe just maybe you'll get to experience things such as E46 M3's and the like just like i have already at 21, but then again you have to work to survive don't you? oh poor lil' common people...maybe.... when you move out of the dorm...and stop starting petty lil' feuds about things so trivial and maybe you'll give up on the racist remarks before some big black fella bitch-slaps you...really i couldn't care less if i got banned, i have 3 PC's at home and three more at my parents office so it don't bother me....

Edit: and ummm we payed less than 40 for the CV8 coz we designed and built it...duh...no taxes...
 
TYP-27R
really i couldn't care less if i got banned, i have 3 PC's at home and three more at my parents office so it don't bother me...
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Glad to hear it won't bother you.
 
TYP-27R
Edit: and ummm we payed less than 40 for the CV8 coz we designed and built it...duh...no taxes...
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...

Did you happen to go to school with Poverty, where you just blurt out random 'facts'? Because the CV8 was never, ever, less then 60k here. I think my dad got his for 62 or something.

I'm not so sure where the gas tank is on the Falcon, but I bet it's in the same place as on the old GTO, because that is the best spot for traction in a RWD car. That could be a problem.

Did I miss anything?
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Yeah, the current fuel tank is in the same place as the old Aussie Monaro. So even if the current model could be switched to LHD (Which it can't), then yes, the fuel tank would have to eat up the boot space again to conform with the regs.

However, the new Falcon is due in 2008, which will be without doubt made with LHD exports in mind. The reason being is that I think Ford Australia will struggle to survive without them. Even when the new Falcon just came out here, it never pumped a Commodore on sales figures. Holden now creates a lot of it's money from exports to the US, Middle East, South Africa, which allows them to be able to still build and sell Big, Heavy, V8 sedans when even in Australia we are moving towards smaller cars and diesel variants.

At the rate that Ford is losing money. Can they afford to give out 1 billion dollars (The cost to make the new VE Commodore) to a produce a brand new Falcon that will at best sell 50,000 units, just in Australia to compete with the Commodore?
 
Casio
...

Did you happen to go to school with Poverty, where you just blurt out random 'facts'? Because the CV8 was never, ever, less then 60k here. I think my dad got his for 62 or something.
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whoa!! you paid 62 thousand AUD for a CV8...i went to the holden dealership when they were new and i wa told i could get the fully optioned CV8Z for under 55gAUD. musn't of been a good haggler
 
CREXTC
whoa!! you paid 62 thousand AUD for a CV8...i went to the holden dealership when they were new and i wa told i could get the fully optioned CV8Z for under 55gAUD. musn't of been a good haggler
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Is this how not bothered you are, typ27r? You're so not bothered you had to re-register?
 
TYP-27R
Edit: and ummm we payed less than 40 for the CV8 coz we designed and built it...duh...no taxes...
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CREXTC
i wa told i could get the fully optioned CV8Z for under 55gAUD. musn't of been a good haggler
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ORLY.

The Redbook lists the price of a CV8R as $60,990
monarowl5.jpg


My 62K (And I'm not sure if that's exactly it, but it was in the low 60s), included On Road Costs and a few extras. (Remember that the RRP price here doesn't include the ORC).

Either way, your statement about being under 40 grand is wrong. Because even if you meant 40,000 USD, that's a tick over 51,000AUD, and no dealer would give you a brand new Monaro for 50k (You yourself admit to it being around 55k, which I find hard to believe).

EDIT: Sorry. You said CV8Z not CV8R. My Mistake. Regradless, the CV8Z is still $60,490.
 
TYP-27R
i meant that what the americans know as the GTO is only the CV8 here thus being the base model as the CV6 was cut i'm pretty sure... boy you americans must have got jerked for the monaro then, paying as much as a beemer...
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Don't know if you will see this but we are the one that are getting jerked when it comes to price and the GTO is higher spec than any CV8.


M5Power
In the GTO's last year of production we paid $32300, which is $41300 AUD, for a 400-horsepower 6-liter V8, leather, a 6-CD changer and 17-inch Z-rated alloys. What did you pay?
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Yep 60k+ for a 5.7 Litre LS1 version while on the same production lines the American GTO's got a 6.0L LS2 for much cheaper.


Monaro's are holding resale value quite well, you lose much more money from just buying a Commodore. (used Monaros are going for more than American GTO's from new :lol:)

Oh and yes as Casio said the Falcon fuel tank is in the same place as the earlier modern Monaro's.
 
M5Power
Was this due to taxes in your market?
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No I don't think so, we just get charged alot for cars over here, even local built cars, much smaller market than the US I suppose drives the profit margin per car higher.
 
...Wow, looks liked I missed-out on a good fight...

The big hurdle for the Falcon coming to America is Ford NA's instance on American design, and I think most rational people would view that as a rather naive view of how to do a new car. The fact of the matter is that the Aussies have the American formula, and for us to get back to where we need to be, we need to "borrow" it and make it our own.

...A D2C sedan could be the answer, but lets be honest, I highly doubt it would stand up to the caliber of the Zeta or LY chassis...
 
Is the Ford Territory in Aus. on the same platform as the Freestyle? This looks pretty damn good I think. This model has the I6 turbo motor.

BlobServer
 
I thought the Territory was based on the Falcon? Kinda like the Holden Aventura on the previous VZ Commodore...?
 

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