Most disappointed after Le Mans 24

[Eunos_Cosmo]

"These and many more flaws make endurance racing in A-Spec pointless, souless and monotonous."


I think that's a little unfair; I think 'unfinished' is more appropriate

 

[avens]

congratulations on watching your first ever real life race

 

[Tyger]

It is an old game but get the LeMans 24hr game on the PS2, it captured the spirit of the race beautifully and in a way the GT series never will.

Agreed, I had the PS1 version and you just reminded me to look for the PS2 version which is pennies on eBay.

If you have a Dreamcast (and everyone should have a Dreamcast) you could also try Test Drive Le Mans

Here is a review, Classic Game Room so only if the wannabe Bill Murray reviewer doesn't tick you off

 

[HKS racer]

Well let me rephrase that then, more sophisticated downforce combined with sophisticated traction control systems, makes them much faster in the traction zones.

Not to mention the ridiculously efficent carbon brakes of modern LMP1's. Group C even with more power and less weight doesn't stand a chance, not in the World. An LMP1 could gain 2 seconds each turn. Audi R18 can run about 4 or 5 second slower than HRT and Marussia... which are still Formula 1's.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

What tires were you using. What kind of assists were you using.

 

[RedPartyhat]

And this is why PD is now working on GT6 not even 2 years after they released GT5.
GT5 needs a serious overhaul of many things.

 

[TomBrady]

They should have different difficulties then... Have the stupid slow AI in beginner and have the good AI in pro or something... I'm sick of having to race a lowly MX5 vs race cars just to have a close race, it's stupid... Difficulties cater for everyone...

The AI is only slow if you give yourself massive advantages over them. Let me guess, you were using racing soft tires? AI uses Racing hard tires at most. You were using a group C? Guess what, most group C's have a minimum of 900hp, the AI always uses stock cars, and most modern LMPs have anywhere from 650hp-800hp.

Try matching performance and tires to the AI, you'll have a good race. If that fails, drop power, add weight. Basically the AI is only as bad as you make it. They give you the option of having advantages over the AI, because not everyone is at the same skill level.

 

[TheDabbinDave]

And this is why PD is now working on GT6 not even 2 years after they released GT5.
GT5 needs a serious overhaul of many things.

They started in GT6 immediately after GT5 released. Kaz even said it wouldn't take as log for GT6 to release.

 

[Tornado]

The AI is only slow if you give yourself massive advantages over them.

People still think this? PD doesn't even try to pretend that's true anymore.

 

[HKS racer]

They started in GT6 immediately after GT5 released. Kaz even said it wouldn't take as log for GT6 to release.

This winter will be two years GT5 is out. I'm not sure what Kaz meant with "wouldn't take as long".

 

[Pilitev]

Watching Le Mans last weekend I also imagined how great it would be to play GT6 and doing a 'real' Le Mans race with a full field of cars/classes, failures/damage, competitive AI, real time (live) weather, pit repairs, having a full race weekend, etc, etc.. How great would that be if GT6 can pull that of? It would be worth the full game price for me if they can get this done.

I think if it is done good, it wil be a really immersive race. A race in which you really have to fight in your class and even when you finish it in let's say third position in your class, you still can look back on a memorable race and had a good time > it's not really the end result that will be a pleasure but how you got that end result.

What I can't understand is that on the one side PD tries to let GT be the absolute top in realism for car detail/driving etc, and on the other side they let it be as unrealistic as possible. I can't understand why the Le Mans 24H in GT5 is their interpretation of the real thing, it's not even close.

What do you guys think, will PD sort these issues out for the next installment? Or will they keep on following the same path like before?

 

[analog]

I think if it is done good, it wil be a really immersive race. A race in which you really have to fight in your class and even when you finish it in let's say third position in your class, you still can look back on a memorable race and had a good time > it's not really the end result that will be a pleasure but how you got that end result.

If we assume there's a full grid consisting of multiple classes I really like this idea of competing within your own class and not just overall.
Maybe you can win/complete this event by 'just' winning the class you're participating in with maybe a Credit/XP bonus for winning overall.
This way you can incorporate several races within one event, just like the real one, getting out of the way for faster cars if you're in a lower class, etc.

 

[Phoenix]

They can do no wrong!

They can do mistakes...

Im running the 24 hour Le Mans in A-spec these days, and yesterday the McLaren F1 GTR Race Car spun out and made 2 360's and ran over the gravel and into the wall at the Mulsanne 90 degree corner.
I was like maybe 100-150 meters behind him when it happened.

So they can make mistakes... Just not very often.

But in races where tire wear is off, i've never seen them make mistakes.

 

[Tornado]

If they would implement the B-Spec AI throughout the game, that would solve a lot of problems in the regard.


Alas.

Maybe you can win/complete this event by 'just' winning the class you're participating in with maybe a Credit/XP bonus for winning overall.
This way you can incorporate several races within one event, just like the real one, getting out of the way for faster cars if you're in a lower class, etc.

That would be a great idea to take care of that.

 

[Kobooi]

The AI is only slow if you give yourself massive advantages over them. Let me guess, you were using racing soft tires? AI uses Racing hard tires at most. You were using a group C? Guess what, most group C's have a minimum of 900hp, the AI always uses stock cars, and most modern LMPs have anywhere from 650hp-800hp.

Try matching performance and tires to the AI, you'll have a good race. If that fails, drop power, add weight. Basically the AI is only as bad as you make it. They give you the option of having advantages over the AI, because not everyone is at the same skill level.

You can also hold the controller upside down, keep a soccer ball in the air, and wear beer goggles. All will have the same impact on the AI as what you said: absolutely nothing.

 

[dr_slump]

This winter will be two years GT5 is out. I'm not sure what Kaz meant with "wouldn't take as long".

Didn't they say the same for GT5?

 

[Basiba Davia]

Yeah it's mostly down to the tires. The main difference between the pre-chicane and post-chicane cars is the type of aerodynamics.


So basically, while the early group C prototypes produced a lot of downforce at high speed, they didn't produce much at low speed. The later group c, and every prototype since then has emphasized low speed downforce to match the slower track. I think the big difference in lap times, as said above, is tire technology.

Put a Peugeot 905B on modern rubber and I bet it would annihilate the contemporary prototypes, if it finished the race

Likewise, remove the chicanes, and put some modern tires on a Sauber C9 and the lap times would be truly shocking I bet.

I agree this old Cars had things that Cars today dont allowed to so i Agree.
this old cars i think whit modern rubber they probbaly be very fast compeare todays cars. the handling werent so bad it was the last befor all electronical came

 

[TexasTyme214]

-Tire wear is just stupid.

It's not just the tires. The fuel consumption is awful. Every car has 100 liter tanks and fuel consumption looks the same on every car. Two car that cover the same amount of distance will use the same amount of fuel, but the only difference will be performance. Had different cars used fuel differently, we'd have a different game completely. Fuel usage determined pit stops in real life, but in GT5, it's the tires.

 

[Jav]

What tires were you using. What kind of assists were you using.

It doesn't matter wich tires he used, anything from RS to SS, maybe even SH have extremely stupid wear. Audi did a penta stint on their tires on 2011! Penta, that's 5 stints, YES 5 STINTS on the same set of tires and evryone else did 4. Nothing in this game comes remotely close to that!

It's not just the tires. The fuel consumption is awful. Every car has 100 liter tanks and fuel consumption looks the same on every car. Two car that cover the same amount of distance will use the same amount of fuel, but the only difference will be performance. Had different cars used fuel differently, we'd have a different game completely. Fuel usage determined pit stops in real life, but in GT5, it's the tires.

Lol! Yeah, afterall GT5 is just a game. No matter its and its fans claims of it beign a sim it will never be one. GT5 is just a game, a very good and enrtaining game but plagued by flaws that are real game breakers.

 

[chase94]

It's the real driving simulator. It says nothing about tire wear or ai or damage lol

 

[Jav]

Yeah, "The Real Driving Simulator" wich doesn't even let you drive your car in or out of the pits...

 

[ImprezaAddict]

It's the real driving simulator. It says nothing about tire wear or ai or damage lol

Arguably the most important aspect of any and every car is the tire. The only part of the car in contact with the ground.

 

[ghsnu]

So after watching this weekends Le Mans 24hr race I am super annoyed with GT5. So many things that are nowhere near reality! Yet they claim of "real" driving simulator... I'm on hour 20 of the Le Mans 24hr race and I watched the race rather diligently this weekend as well and it raised a few issues for me...

1. AI
- They follow the same crappy line lap after lap, i'm shocked that they don't do exactly the same lap time each lap as well.
- Also, they are glued to the spot, I rubbed against them a few times and went spinning wildly whilst they just carried on driving exactly how they were before.
- Spun out in their path once too and they just plowed right through me, not even braking.
- They are ridiculously slow, I am 7 laps ahead in my '89 group C car racing against state of the art LMP1 cars...
- When you are racing on of them and get too close to them they just slow down completely. But get in front of them and they'll match you all the way round. I tested it one lap with the Bently Speed 8, followed him down the first straight and got a top speed of 300km/h. Then went past him and I hit 360 and he flew past me. And it's not slipstream either, when i was behind him i was literally pushing him.

2. Race
- Tire wear is absolutely shocking in this game! The Audi's were going through three fuel stops before pitting this weekend! I get 5 laps before needing tires, that's like 17 minutes of racing... The Audi's went for over 2 hours with their tires! I get three hot laps in before having to pit! What happened to improving your lap times lap after lap and slowly seeing the impact of tire wear? I remember GT4 being like this.
- Slip stream is also bad, I should be calling it super, nitro, turbo boost stream! Cos in GT5 if you are in behind someone and in top gear you get an extra 30% power! I watched the LMP cars SSing each other down the main straights and it didn't help nearly as much...
- More cars please! How epic was Le Mans with its 56 car grid? I wish they'd put even half of that in GT5!
- Classes, classes, classes! What's the point of the 2 GTE vipers that are always in the LM races? Obstacles? Annoyances? I dunno... Why not have classes and award money for each! That'd make it fun to drive a GTE car or an LMP2 car and see how you fair.
- Qualifying? Practice? etc... make the race more realistic, not just 6th place on the grid and off you go! They could extend this to all the races too. They can use the current race softs as qualifying tires, cos that's all they're really good for anyway.


In concluding, I just feel that there is so much they have left out of the game , they're on the 5th installment of it and somethings haven't been improved since the first... Come on PD, this game could be so much better!

Any thoughts guys? anything to add?

Ant

Same here - watched some Rolex series and 24 Hours of LeMans and was immediately confronted with the idea of just picking a competitive LMP car and doing the 24 Hours on GT...then reality kicked in and I realized a decent 24 Hours race is impossible.

Why no classes? What if I want to race something other than LMP's? Why the insane tire wear, even on Racing Hards? Why does it never stop raining? Why are the AI so stupid?

I'm just bewildered to why PD would label it "the real driving simulator" if they can't even get the AI right. I'm not expecting a perfect sim like rFactor or iRacing, just something that is somewhat Forza-quality (yes I said it, kill me now GT Gods) - retain a good driving model, but add: 1) More European+American cars, specifically classics; 2) Paint shop somewhat like Forza's; 3) An overall menu/HUD design that doesn't scream "hey look, I'm still living in the mid-90's!"

Not trying to throw a punch at PD - GT5 is ok, its just not the game we waited 6 years for.

 

[Jav]

I'm just bewildered to why PD would label it "the real driving simulator" if they can't even get the AI right.

You know I honestly believe that was a case of lost in translation... The game is not about driving, it's about racing! You progress trough the game by racing, the whole point of the game is racing! So when some people make that argument it's pretty lame.

 

[Exorcet]

The Group C cars have the power and speed but they don't have the downforce anything like the current LMP cars.

They have nearly everything in GT5 though.

 

[ghsnu]

You know I honestly believe that was a case of lost in translation... The game is not about driving, it's about racing! You progress trough the game by racing, the whole point of the game is racing! So when some people make that argument it's pretty lame.

Yup. I used to use it to defend the game - now I really don't care.

I like racing, but GT5 doesn't offer intense, on-edge-of-your-seat races - just bland "catch the leader that's 300yds infront of 2nd place" races (although finding a challenging car to compete in the new seasonals with the Power Adjustment Bonus has proven to be fun at times). Forza has AI that doesn't follow each other on the racing line the whole race, they even have multi-class racing! The only thing Forza 4 lacks, though, is endurance races.

About the only thing keeping me busy in GT5 anymore is just lapping the Top Gear Test Track endlessly in numerous cars in freerun lobbies. Starting to get dull now with summer vacation and lack of any new DLC cars.


As of now...I really wish my Xbox wasn't broken , I really miss tag .

 

[Stradivis]

Everything said here relates to one point where GT fails miserably: it lacks focus. No, not the Ford Focus. Focus.

Look at GT5. it has everything, yet, nothing done well. Lots of rally cars, but 3 rally courses, and 2 special events. Oh, there's NASCAR, but only 2 tracks. Some old DTM cars too. Formula and karts too. And GT500/300/JGTC.

However, in none of those disciplines you feel immersed. Same with Le Mans.

Lots of cars, and yet some can't be used in any single player event.

A lot of these things leave me wondering what's the point. Why were they included in the game?

What do you think? Should PD start to focus it's efforts?

 

[Jav]

Everything said here relates to one point where GT fails miserably: it lacks focus. No, not the Ford Focus. Focus.

Look at GT5. it has everything, yet, nothing done well. Lots of rally cars, but 3 rally courses, and 2 special events. Oh, there's NASCAR, but only 2 tracks. Some old DTM cars too. Formula and karts too. And GT500/300/JGTC.

However, in none of those disciplines you feel immersed. Same with Le Mans.

Lots of cars, and yet some can't be used in any single player event.

A lot of these things leave me wondering what's the point. Why were they included in the game?

What do you think? Should PD start to focus it's efforts?

You hit the nail right in the head! Very well expresed!

 

[DCP]

I agree with all of it, but most irritating for me is the unrealistic slipstream after watching Le Mans.
I mean, in GT5 guys catch the slip even when they are 1.5 seconds behind. How bad it that. To top it off, in GT5, 4-5 guys can slip and pass you before the first chicane on the main straight. U right, I didn't see many overtakes during the long straights at Le Mans. It seemed the guys behind struggled to get ahead of the guy infront.
Some could argue that the drivers behind just kept following saving fuel, tyres etc, but then doesn't that affect aero / dirty air etc.??
PD need to sort this out. It makes overtaking in the game too easy, which doesn't make it a simulator, but rather arcadish.

 

[ANTthePANT79]

The AI is only slow if you give yourself massive advantages over them. Let me guess, you were using racing soft tires? AI uses Racing hard tires at most. You were using a group C? Guess what, most group C's have a minimum of 900hp, the AI always uses stock cars, and most modern LMPs have anywhere from 650hp-800hp.

Try matching performance and tires to the AI, you'll have a good race. If that fails, drop power, add weight. Basically the AI is only as bad as you make it. They give you the option of having advantages over the AI, because not everyone is at the same skill level.

No, no, no...

I am using a stock 787B with RM or RH tires... RS is stupid because it lasts 4 laps... I tried the BMW in testing and ran so much faster than the field that it was pointless... Tried the 908 and it was even faster! So your theory about my car being too fast is null and void...

The point of my post was that we shouldn't need to add weight or decrease performance to be able to "race" with the AI... I could do the event in a GT300 car and would probably still be competitive...