Mr. Yamauchi - A question about a PC version of GT7.

You can laugh, it's reality.

In your opinion , why Uncharted and Gran Turismo have stood up to PC games ?
Because developers could exploit a machine to the fullest without worrying about 10 000 configurations.

And don't believe that the majority of PC owners have a large configuration....
A point you keep ignoring...PC and PS architecture are now the same. The PS will be better optimized than a PC because it's dedicated use, but that doesn't render the PC irrelevant, you just need to spend a little more money to get the same performance as a PS and given the prices of PC hardware, the gap is getting smaller and smaller. Millions of people own PC's more than capable of playing a GT game and they buy millions of games already.

The question isn't whether this can be done or not from a technical standpoint, or whether it's too much work because it's not, relative to the income potential. If it's not done it's for other reasons as @eran0004 points out above, and I'd like Kaz to address those reasons. Of course I'd like Kaz to address any question at all, but in the immortal words of Homer Simpson, "buggers can't be choosy". :D
 
I would simply like to know how much time and effort are spent by Sony in general in looking at the competition.

THAT would be very, very telling.
 
Although it would be wise for PDI and good for consumers, Sony simply isn't going to allow competition. They're about as insular as Apple. Funny how MS became dominant being a relatively open platform, whereas Apple (and Sony, frankly) have been tertiary players for so long. with their "you're too stupid to decide for yourself", gold-plated "special customer" paradigm. Here's to insular, aristocratically inspired morons shooting themselves in their own feet.
I don't get why something that has been pretty much standard procedure for the past 20 years in the game industry is something to crucify Sony over specifically.
 
Yes, they have same architecture, but it stops there.

Developers don't exploit PC to the fullest because of parameters mentioned above. While consoles, yes because it's the same for everybody.
 
I don't get why something that has been pretty much standard procedure for the past 20 years in the game industry is something to crucify Sony over specifically.

Especially when they weren't the first to do so, by far aren't the only one and likely won't be the last.
 
Yes, they have same architecture, but it stops there.

Developers don't exploit PC to the fullest because of parameters mentioned above. While consoles, yes because it's the same for everybody.
And? PCars is going to be essentially the same game on PC, XBox and PS4. There may be higher detail settings on the PC I'm not sure, but the core of the game is the same. There's no reason you can't do the same with GT7. I think you're just throwing up nonsense to see if anything sticks. There's no requirement to make any major changes to the game just because it's on a PC.
 
I don't get why something that has been pretty much standard procedure for the past 20 years in the game industry is something to crucify Sony over specifically.

Well... If I were discussing something else, I might directly reference another company. In fact, I think if you re-read my post, you'll see I also referenced Apple, which is another company that has a documented provenance of playing similar exclusionary games (in fact, APple almost put itself out of business in the 1990s before Microsoft and Intel stepped up to save them from the Techno scrapyard their insular paradigm almost drove them to). Speaking about an optics company or sundries mfg that acts in this manner would turn this into a general purpose business rant more suitable for a business or similar newsgroup forum instead of a focused post in a gaming forum on GT6, since Sony is their parent company and does control many critical aspects of this software title , presumably including release schedules, O/S-platform development selection, selected content (complexity of menu structures and controls, allowed peripheral hardware, etc.), advertising, and other business elements.
 
It would be pretty awesome if PD and Pcars could come together.....

But, it's not happening soon OR easily.... ;)
 
Competition will be falling over themselves if Gran Turismo could be played on a pc.
GT in it's current version wouldn't be straight up competition for any racing sim, it's far closer to a game than it is a sim. Instead it would simply open up the gaming market on PC and dramatically expand the "simcade" end of things. Now if they really took a run at making this more of a simulator, in terms of physics and the logistics of recreating a race weekend, then they might have something that would be more competition on the PC.
 
Gran Turismo on a personal computer = simcade ?

You sure?

If it's going to be compete, it won't be simcade.
 
One big plus for GT on PC:a lot of USB Ports.
You will be able to play with different brands steering wheel,pedals,shifter and all Logitech/Fanatec wheels are going to be compatible.
For example if you have Thrusmaster T300 RS you will be able to change original pedals with any other brand pedals that you want.
 
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GT7 on a PC....hmm...Relationship-wise, Sony is a lot closer to Apple so if unthinkable happens, expect to see a GT title on a Mac. On a PC? As long as it's not Games for Windows!!:D
Remember GT is developed specifically for a dualshock controller, with wheel/pedal support secondary. Port it to a PC, then you are looking at flipping that around. Besides the argument that GT is a MASSIVE brand for PlayStation, I'm not sure PC market is whether "simcade" friendly or not to justify extra $/time spent on porting it.
However, having said that, I can see a miniaturized GT appearing on iStore or Google Play....hmm...
 
As long as Polyphony Digital is owned by Sony Computer Entertainment it will simply not happen, period.

Besides, if you have a decent PC you don't need Gran Turismo anyway. Get an iRacing subsription or Project Cars when it comes out.
 
True, but the PS4 is starting well, so it MAY save Sony.... We shall see. I hope they drop most everything else or design better from here.
 
True, but the PS4 is starting well, so it MAY save Sony.... We shall see. I hope they drop most everything else or design better from here.
Most of their other departments are tanking badly though. They've reported $2.5 billion loss for this year.
 
From what we know PD does not receive direct profits from selling their games. What keeps PD afloat is (practically) only Sony, who gives them a yearly budget for whatever they might be working on.

That's why it's been reported GT5 cost 60 millions to be made. The idea is PD had $10 million a year as budget for the whole company, so 10x6.
(I know this isn't really correct due that they released some other games in that period and that there's many more costs to be considered than just making the very game too, but that's how the calculation was made back then).

Secondly, Sony's best interest is to have console seller games and those are the exclusives. Also before Driveclub the GT series was the only stable franchise Sony had in the entire racing genre, so not having a racing game would mean losing the entire racing enthusiasts crowd (several millions) and losing the opportunity of having a game of a genre that is perfect for showing off the newest consoles' graphics capabilities.

Those two are the biggest, if not only reasons why PD exists and why Sony finances it.

With that said, as long as the Playstation exists there's absolutely no way a Gran Turismo game will ever, ever be released for something else than the latest Playstation. Also, if there are no new Playstations then maybe other Gran Turismo branded games could come out for other systems, but they wouldn't be the same by any means so in actuality they wouldn't be Gran Turismo games, so GT dies with the Playstation (I touch that matter at the end of this post).

Even in the case GT7 for the PS4 could be ported to the PC, latest Xbox and Nintendo consoles by just copypasting it (ctrl+c ctrl+v) and without any optimizations done or anything else, that increase in copies sold still wouldn't be worth it for Sony.

What I want to say is that this is not a technical matter, but of how Sony and PD are run.


For a better example lets take the Forza series. Currently that franchise's games cost way more than the GT series' to be made (so more than $10m a year) and still they sell way less anyway (many times less), but at the end of the day it's worth the money for Microsoft (controller of Turn 10) because the Forza series is a console seller and Forza is their only stable racing franchise.



Yes, they have same architecture, but it stops there.

Developers don't exploit PC to the fullest because of parameters mentioned above. While consoles, yes because it's the same for everybody.

I'm no technical guy whatsoever but I think you are wrong because it's actuality the opposite: the problem is not the PC release but the one for consoles.

Just like any other game, the GT series is made on a PC and made to work on a PC. It is afterwards that the game is made to run on a console. That means what is expensive and tiresome (both very much so) is making GT6 run on the PS3 as best as possible, not the opposite because right now and without any effort GT6 already runs on the PC (we have seen footage of GT5 and GT6 running flawlessly on PCs already) and there's not that much of a biggie if the game doesn't run well on older hardware, due to that different PC games have different hardware requirements.

In the end the reason why lots of "ports" of console games to the PC run so badly is that the companies behind them put very little effort into the PC release, because in the current market the AAA multi platform releases sell way more on consoles than on the PC, making this just an afterthought. What I mean is that situation is not because of a technical reason, such as PC ports being harder to make than console ports or some infrastructure matter, but because of sales really.

Then what happens is consumers complain about the poor PC release and the company fixes it with patches made within a month, that solve lots of the issues, focus into better supporting the PC inputs (not a problem in the GT series) and adding more options.
At the same time, PD has been struggling for 10 years and to this day about running the GT series on the PS3, that because of technical, infrastructure reasons.

To put an irrefutable example, we know GT6 doesn't run that well on the PS3, no matter how much effort PD has put in all these years. For instance the main reason why sounds are so bad is the console. However, the times PD has shown GT5 and GT6 running on a PC the game runs way better than it does on the PS3, that including most likely that internal PC release took them way, way, way, way less effort to be compiled.


Secondly as others already said, yes it was a pain in the ass to make games run on the PS3 but that is already changed for the PS4, which is said to be so easy companies develop their multi platform games with the intent to run on for the PS4 first and then for Microsoft's own console.


Thirdly, PC games always are exploited to the fullest, because there's no hardware limitation. Me and others have talked many times about it but will repeat it again: consoles have finite resources by design, so there's always compromises and console releases are never as good as they could have been.

On GT6 you are limited to 16 players online, that with with the console struggling a lot to do so and with lots of limitations put by PD in order to achieve those 16, such as worse sound than it could have been, the physics are different online for this reason (remember what happened with GT5?), huge hit in fps, etc. etc. On the other hand, on the PC if you have a good one on iRacing you can run a full NASCAR grid and without any compromise made nor performance hit.


Yeah, they had best make some DRASTIC course corrections!

Sony still has several billions in savings and is a household name. It's one of those companies that its brand value makes it too big to entirely fail and even in the case it does it will be bought by someone else, so it will continue to exist. Sony will not go (properly) bankrupt in our life spans; as in just disappearing.

To put it in perspective when it comes to the videogames industry, Sony is so big that at the beginning of the PS3 era they lost $300 per console in order to place the Blu-ray on the consumer market, plus remember the PS2 did the exact same with the DVD 15 years ago. Yep, that big.
Also remember Sony made absurd profits during the PS1 and PS2 eras and that this generation (PS4) will likely be "won" by Sony, making a console that isn't making them bleed money.


However lets put ourselves in the desperation scenario you and others suggest:

1) The GT series selling for other consoles has practically 0 effect on saving Sony as a whole.

2) Heck even selling the GT series to someone else still is nothing in the big picture.

3) Even if Sony goes bankrupt (in reality being sold as a whole to someone else) selling the GT series separately would be a big hit to Sony's brand value, so most likely they won't be. What I want to say on this point is that the GT series will always, always be of Sony's property, no matter what happens in the future.

4) If the Playstation dies then the GT series as you know it will die with it, because PD requires way too much money to make proper GT games (huge AAA games) for what they can sell on the PC (sells of PC racing games are nothing when compared to consoles), on Microsoft's consoles (with added competition and likely it wouldn't be allowed to sell GT games there in first place) and on Nintendo's too (no one buys third party titles for those and what its audience only looks for unrealistic racing). The GT series sells more as a Sony exclusive than in the scenario of discounting all those sells on the Playstation while it being available for every other system.

5) Remember that Sega stopped making consoles but it didn't cease to exist. However most of its franchises died with its consoles and those that remain to this day are not even comparable to how they were, because of the said reasons in point 4. All Sega's racing franchises are dead and so are all their expensive to make games, even when they were as big names as the GT series is.



Anyway, not to be so serious I'm posting funny videos on these long (and sort of hateful) posts :P. I recommend everyone to buy this, because right now it costs like $5 and is beyond amazing.
 
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YZF
I wonder if selling MORE games could be in Sony's interest or not....
They've sold 70 million+... I think they're doing ok without tapping into the PC market. Only thing we don't know is the sales numbers for GT6, which, even if it does bad for a GT title... is pretty damn good for a racing game considering it's sales numbers. Most racing games that aren't Forza or GT, or even some NFS titles years ago, get somewhere in the range of less than 5 million sold.
 
They've sold 70 million+... I think they're doing ok without tapping into the PC market. Only thing we don't know is the sales numbers for GT6, which, even if it does bad for a GT title... is pretty damn good for a racing game considering it's sales numbers. Most racing games that aren't Forza or GT, or even some NFS titles years ago, get somewhere in the range of less than 5 million sold.

They have sold 70 million in 15 years ! I'd imagine if you combine all NFS titles, sold in last 15 years, the number won't be much different.

The question is, how much more PS units are bought because GT is PS exclusive and if this number would be lower or higher if GT was sold for PC as well.
 
YZF
They have sold 70 million in 15 years ! I'd imagine if you combine all NFS titles, sold in last 15 years, the number won't be much different.

The question is, how much more PS units are bought because GT is PS exclusive and if this number would be lower or higher if GT was sold for PC as well.
NFS hit 100M in 2009, have had 23 releases on multiple platforms since 1994, compared to 9 releases for GT at 70M, and neither of those numbers is counting GT6, since 1998.

There's a ton of choices for racing sims on PC so unless GT did something better than the current crop of PC sims, I don't see them making a dent in the PC side of racing games. The strong point is being console exclusive.
 
YZF
They have sold 70 million in 15 years ! I'd imagine if you combine all NFS titles, sold in last 15 years, the number won't be much different.

The question is, how much more PS units are bought because GT is PS exclusive and if this number would be lower or higher if GT was sold for PC as well.
Exactly. Past GT sales totals are irrelevant and there's no such thing as "doing well enough" as was suggested. Even if you have 100% of the market you can always do better by expanding the market. And releasing the game on PC still leave GT as exclusive to the PS on console and sticks it to XBone that way. The real question is does the game sell consoles and if so, how many would be lost, if any, by selling it as a PC game. It's quite possible almost all PC sales could be additional sales to people who may not otherwise be a customer.
 
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