Muscle Car People; what cars do you want to be in GT4?

[Famine]

Exchange rate is roughly 1.75. So $70,000.

 

[Dave A]

Famine beat me and his answer is right .

 

[xcsti]

Wow thanks for the quick response. too bad I wasn't there

 

[JohnBM01]

I have 1,983 posts? Heh. That's the year I was born. I'm not a "muscle head," but I think I should make a special message in regards to muscle cars in GT4. Here goes.

When I say I'm more of an auto enthusiast, I like all or most cars not so much for cosmetics, but for what they BRING to the automotive world. One of my favorite classic American cars besides the Sting Ray Corvette of 1963 is the Bel-Air. I wouldn't mind racing a Shelby GT350 in a game. A sexy (but mean) modern Pontiac Trans-Am, or an F-Body Camaro of our day would also be wonderful to race in GT. And I know. I raced Camaros in... all three GTs. Just the raw American power and heart to tune them to be as perect as I want them is enough to make me want to appreciate the Camaro for what it is. And the Mustang? You know what? I'm not real big on Ford, but the Mustang is surely the heartbeat of America (not to mock Chevrolet's past slogan). Where else will you find a cheap or relatively cheap car with power and performance whether in a straight line or on the road course? The best one of them all has to be the Corvette. My favorite is the Camaro, but the Corvette was, and always has been the answer to European sports cars and even some sporty Japanese cars.

So you know what? I hope America becomes as represented as much as possible in Gran Turismo 4. I think it's important for all people to find something to interest them in GT4. How can you not be happy about such a game like this? I know with muscle car and hot rod lovers like 98Cobra, BlazinXtreme, and Cano among others, having American muscle is as much as any sport compact fan who wants their AE86s and Civics. I really feel that America can be represented in more ways than one to keep America happy in GT4.

 

[JohnBM01]

I don't want to fit in to a certain category of cars even though I have some of my favorites. So as much as I respect American cars, I can't just stay in one group. American cars have power and performance, even if it is just on ovals and drag strips. That's why we have tuning to make them better. Even though it's from Europe, the Ford GT40 was the most nimble and agile car in Gran Turismos 2 and 3 (not that I tried in 3). I'm not a serious muscle car person, so I'm not saying much in this thread. What I WILL say is that muscle cars have very good reason to be in GT4. Whether you love them or loathe them, "more for less" was the theme in American performance cars of the past, and basically hasn't changed since then.

GT2 seen so many of these muscle cars and not-so-muscle cars (Neon, Focus, Stratus, etc...). So I can understand why American GT fans wouldn't be as happy to see all the classic American muscle. Sure, I'm American. It's just that I respect all or most cars. I normally don't like to belong in one category. I shown my appreciation for Australian cars in my thread of the same name. For the sake of my American Muscle fans, I wish you well on having your favorites represented in GT4. They won't put in every last muscle car to date (unless you straight up DON'T LIKE anything that isn't American). That would make GT4 too American and too little of everything else.

Gran Turismo has always seemed to have been about balance, and I hope that GT4 will see its share of American muscle that will beat out GT2's lineup almost too easily. Fans may agree with me, others will dislike me, but muscle car fans need some kind of representation. And this McLaren F1 in my Avatar is to promote GT4. Anyhow, carry on.

 

[McLaren]

I have 1,983 posts? Heh. That's the year I was born. I'm not a "muscle head," but I think I should make a special message in regards to muscle cars in GT4. Here goes.

When I say I'm more of an auto enthusiast, I like all or most cars not so much for cosmetics, but for what they BRING to the automotive world. One of my favorite classic American cars besides the Sting Ray Corvette of 1963 is the Bel-Air. I wouldn't mind racing a Shelby GT350 in a game. A sexy (but mean) modern Pontiac Trans-Am, or an F-Body Camaro of our day would also be wonderful to race in GT. And I know. I raced Camaros in... all three GTs. Just the raw American power and heart to tune them to be as perect as I want them is enough to make me want to appreciate the Camaro for what it is. And the Mustang? You know what? I'm not real big on Ford, but the Mustang is surely the heartbeat of America (not to mock Chevrolet's past slogan). Where else will you find a cheap or relatively cheap car with power and performance whether in a straight line or on the road course? The best one of them all has to be the Corvette. My favorite is the Camaro, but the Corvette was, and always has been the answer to European sports cars and even some sporty Japanese cars.

So you know what? I hope America becomes as represented as much as possible in Gran Turismo 4. I think it's important for all people to find something to interest them in GT4. How can you not be happy about such a game like this? I know with muscle car and hot rod lovers like 98Cobra, BlazinXtreme, and Cano among others, having American muscle is as much as any sport compact fan who wants their AE86s and Civics. I really feel that America can be represented in more ways than one to keep America happy in GT4.

John, you always put in a good way. 👍 Anyways, the Viper can also answer to an European Car. But the Corvette was America's first sportscar. I wouldn't mind taking Eleanor for a spin, or her big sis'...
The Super Snake.

 

[Lethalchem]

Or rather aj's is.

My brother just bought a Subaru Impreza WR1. At £28,995 ($50,000) it cost less than a Z06 Corvette did when it was last sold in the UK - remember that on average we pay half as much again for our new cars than you do - and would happily spank it from here to Tuesday in a straight line (0-62mph in 4.2s; 0-100mph in 10.67s) and round a track, and then on a rally track too, with a passable interior and a driver-adjustable centre differential.

Incorrect. Aj's statements were not about performance, he was discussing the plastic/cheap interiors and poor quality. Surely you don't think the WRX is luxurious and plush??? As stated previously, my point is that regardless of what high end vehicles a country may have, the AVERAGE person isn't driving around in anything that is any better than what we are, so I never understand all the negativity.

As for performance, he said he has the WRX turbo, not the STI. The WRX turbo has 227HP here, and it doesn't "spank" a thing. Even the 300hp STI get's walked once the advantage of the AWD launch is past (who just races 0-60?). I'm sure you are aware of how hard you have to rev and dump an AWD in order to get those good 0-60 times. A stock WRX won't take that for long. 60' times at the strip for the EVO (which runs almost identical with the STI) are around 1.87 for the average driver. I pulled a 1.90 60' on junk stock rubber. So what does that mean? It means your AWD launch will get you ahead through first gear, and you're in the mirror for th erest of the ride. I speak from races I have participated in at the track, not magazine numbers or hearsay.

Thing is, I appreciate the Corvette - and similar US cars - for everything it is. Lots of bang for your buck. And _aj's opinion on the new 'Vette does seem to have come straight from Top Gear. But there are better cars, and even better cars for your money. The Impreza is one of them - yet you give it a disdainful response. Is that because it's a Japanese car with a 4 cylinder - albeit Boxer - engine?

If you read the entire thread, you will see that my comments never even insinuated the Vette was the best car out there. My initial responses to thi sthread were in regards to how American cars have different goals and compromises. The "bang for the buck" is probably a moot point, as the prices seem too different between Europe and here. The WRX STI (300hp, no radio even) is $30,000 here, my Cobra (425hp) is $34,000 and has every comfort I could need. I've competed against the WRX at autocross events as well (not just drag racing) and the only ones that beat me were the ones using race rubber versus my street rubber.

All that being said, my response was not negative towards the WRX in general, his response simply exemplified my point that you guys arn't driving around in Rolls Royce's. The Subaru was a car I tried to get my wife to choose, and we almost picked one up, but the gas milage turned her off. So obviously I like them just fine, I simply wouldn't say their interiors are any better than the average camaro, would you?

Oh, and comparing the Ford GT to cars "3 or 4 times more expensive" as good value for money makes little sense when the Ford GT is £100,000+ ($178,000+).
[/color][/b]

Again, you fail to miss the point. I don't know if you're not reading all the posts, of if perhaps I'm just speaking unclearly. The point was America can build cars that can rank up with the top European cars if we choose to, but at a significant price increase...just like all the Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.. do. Don't act like we CAN'T do it, it's simply not were America places it's efforts. The Ford GT shows it can perform right along with the top cars, and it only got BEAT by cars that were several times more expensive. Nowhere was it stated 'good value for the money'.

Here's the Video in case anyone hasn't seen it. Note that regardless of how an American car performs, it will be bashed and made fun of. Since it blows so many other cars away, they have to make fun of the doors and the gas milage. It is important to note that the Ford GT has laid down 565HP AT THE WHEELS, and can still get 12mpg. That's not bad for a car over 600hp. He gets 4mpg while racing it around a track. Gee, I wonder why?

http://www.sleepy-fish.com/sleepy/TopGear_FordGT_hi.wmv

 

[98cobra]

I have 1,983 posts? Heh. That's the year I was born. I'm not a "muscle head," but I think I should make a special message in regards to muscle cars in GT4. Here goes.

When I say I'm more of an auto enthusiast, I like all or most cars not so much for cosmetics, but for what they BRING to the automotive world. One of my favorite classic American cars besides the Sting Ray Corvette of 1963 is the Bel-Air. I wouldn't mind racing a Shelby GT350 in a game. A sexy (but mean) modern Pontiac Trans-Am, or an F-Body Camaro of our day would also be wonderful to race in GT. And I know. I raced Camaros in... all three GTs. Just the raw American power and heart to tune them to be as perect as I want them is enough to make me want to appreciate the Camaro for what it is. And the Mustang? You know what? I'm not real big on Ford, but the Mustang is surely the heartbeat of America (not to mock Chevrolet's past slogan). Where else will you find a cheap or relatively cheap car with power and performance whether in a straight line or on the road course? The best one of them all has to be the Corvette. My favorite is the Camaro, but the Corvette was, and always has been the answer to European sports cars and even some sporty Japanese cars.

So you know what? I hope America becomes as represented as much as possible in Gran Turismo 4. I think it's important for all people to find something to interest them in GT4. How can you not be happy about such a game like this? I know with muscle car and hot rod lovers like 98Cobra, BlazinXtreme, and Cano among others, having American muscle is as much as any sport compact fan who wants their AE86s and Civics. I really feel that America can be represented in more ways than one to keep America happy in GT4.

Well said JohnBM01 we have to keep all car enthusiest happy. I consider myself a car enthusiest; I like all cars, but my favorite are American. But that doesn't mean I'm only driving American cars. In GT3, I drove every car and enjoyed most of them. Right now I'm doing PD League with a Skyline R34. My point is that every car needs representing from Europe, Japan, America, etc. I just hope we get more muscle cars new and old like in GT2 then I'll be happy.

 

[BMW740i]

I want a 1977 Pontiac TransAm (big block version of course) exactly like the one in this pic.

http://www.allmusclecars.com/pontiac/pontiac_pics.htm
(scroll to Birds and then Bandit)
this car is absolutely gorgeous, its a near perfect car.

 

[Famine]

Incorrect. Aj's statements were not about performance, he was discussing the plastic/cheap interiors and poor quality. Surely you don't think the WRX is luxurious and plush??? As stated previously, my point is that regardless of what high end vehicles a country may have, the AVERAGE person isn't driving around in anything that is any better than what we are, so I never understand all the negativity.

The Impreza comes with every box, bar "Auto" and "satnav" checked. The STi of which you speak, and the hatch and saloon SL, both come with leather too. And the WR1 is awesome inside.

As for performance, he said he has the WRX turbo, not the STI.

No. He said he had a Subaru Impreza Turbo. That's anything from the 1994 UK launch car up to the Spec-C. For some reason the naming conventions are a little different here than in the US.

The WRX turbo has 227HP here, and it doesn't "spank" a thing. Even the 300hp STI get's walked once the advantage of the AWD launch is past (who just races 0-60?). I'm sure you are aware of how hard you have to rev and dump an AWD in order to get those good 0-60 times. A stock WRX won't take that for long. 60' times at the strip for the EVO (which runs almost identical with the STI) are around 1.87 for the average driver. I pulled a 1.90 60' on junk stock rubber. So what does that mean? It means your AWD launch will get you ahead through first gear, and you're in the mirror for th erest of the ride. I speak from races I have participated in at the track, not magazine numbers or hearsay.

Indeed. And on the standard tyres the WR1 comes with it's been recorded at 4.2s/10.67s (0-60mph, 0-100mph) and arrives at your famous 1/4 mile point after 12.8s. I have no figures to hand for the new 'Vette

If you read the entire thread, you will see that my comments never even insinuated the Vette was the best car out there.

And I never implied that you insinuated it...

My initial responses to thi sthread were in regards to how American cars have different goals and compromises. The "bang for the buck" is probably a moot point, as the prices seem too different between Europe and here.

You're not bloody wrong!

All that being said, my response was not negative towards the WRX in general, his response simply exemplified my point that you guys arn't driving around in Rolls Royce's. The Subaru was a car I tried to get my wife to choose, and we almost picked one up, but the gas milage turned her off. So obviously I like them just fine, I simply wouldn't say their interiors are any better than the average camaro, would you?

Don't know - we don't get them...

But the average European loves his comfy car. We may buy more small hatchbacks than almost anything else, but these days, to shift out of the showroom, they need everything that was on a Mercedes SL 5 years ago. Seriously...

Here's the Video in case anyone hasn't seen it. Note that regardless of how an American car performs, it will be bashed and made fun of. Since it blows so many other cars away, they have to make fun of the doors and the gas milage. It is important to note that the Ford GT has laid down 565HP AT THE WHEELS, and can still get 12mpg. That's not bad for a car over 600hp. He gets 4mpg while racing it around a track. Gee, I wonder why?

Do note that the big tall guy has just bought one...

 

[xcsti]

First off the camaro is now discontinued and replacedby the GTO. Maybe it would be better for us to compare those two, or not it doesn't really matter. I think the WRX has all the features common in muscle cars (except that it isn't american), that is that the manufacturor spent most of there funds on go fast goodies at the expense of interior quality. I won't argue over which is better, muscle cars or wrx, because I like both.

 

[Lethalchem]

First off the camaro is now discontinued and replacedby the GTO. Maybe it would be better for us to compare those two, or not it doesn't really matter. I think the WRX has all the features common in muscle cars (except that it isn't american), that is that the manufacturor spent most of there funds on go fast goodies at the expense of interior quality. I won't argue over which is better, muscle cars or wrx, because I like both.

That's my point though. It's not about a muscle car being better than a WRX, it's about the average European cars not having any better quality than anyone else. America can make quality products just like anyone else, and generalizing American cars as all cheap junk that only goes in a straight line is just as innaccurate as saying all European cars are plush, cushy rides that pull 1.0g+ on a skidpad. I'm simply defending againt stereotypes, and offering possible alternate perspectives about the goals of cars made in different countries. I don't believe a company needs to be crapped on simply because they chose to build a car with different goals in mind.

As for the tall guy in the video, I was pleased to see he was brave enough to "break out" and actually give the car some credit.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

67 Fastback GT500
The rest of the cars I want are already in the game.

 

[McLaren]

Like I said,

I wouldn't mind seeing

Eleanor or her big sis'.

 

[Dave A]

That's my point though. It's not about a muscle car being better than a WRX, it's about the average European cars not having any better quality than anyone else. America can make quality products just like anyone else, and generalizing American cars as all cheap junk that only goes in a straight line is just as innaccurate as saying all European cars are plush, cushy rides that pull 1.0g+ on a skidpad. I'm simply defending againt stereotypes, and offering possible alternate perspectives about the goals of cars made in different countries. I don't believe a company needs to be crapped on simply because they chose to build a car with different goals in mind.

As for the tall guy in the video, I was pleased to see he was brave enough to "break out" and actually give the car some credit.

From what I can gather you don't seem to get TopGear, sure it's a car show, but it's different to all the others, they have fun on that show if that means making fun of the GT40 to get a Jerremy then so be it, the bottom line is that when the car was tested it was good and when they start having a laugh at the end it's not saying the car is bad.

 

[98cobra]

From what I can gather you don't seem to get TopGear, sure it's a car show, but it's different to all the others, they have fun on that show if that means making fun of the GT40 to get a Jerremy then so be it, the bottom line is that when the car was tested it was good and when they start having a laugh at the end it's not saying the car is bad.

But do they make fun of European cars too at the end?

 

[Famine]

It's a car magazine programme.

They review cars. If it's crap they say it's crap, if it's good they say it's good. The particularities of its manufacturer's geographical location are irrelevant. Note that Jeremy Clarkson liked the Ford GT so much he bought one (one of only 28 people selected by Ford to be allowed to buy one in the UK), yet on the "Cool Wall" put the car down as "Uncool". Why? Because he's bought one, and anything he has cannot be cool.

 

[McLaren]

It's a car magazine programme.

They review cars. If it's crap they say it's crap, if it's good they say it's good. The particularities of its manufacturer's geographical location are irrelevant. Note that Jeremy Clarkson liked the Ford GT so much he bought one (one of only 28 people selected by Ford to be allowed to buy one in the UK), yet on the "Cool Wall" put the car down as "Uncool". Why? Because he's bought one, and anything he has cannot be cool.

I have to d/l TopGear vids. I have seen a few. LIke the Skyline R34. I don't know who the guy was. (Maybe someone can posts pics of all the hosts, or if there is just one host). ANyways, he liked the Skyline and thought it was a great car.

I have also seen one with the F1, the F40 and F50. The US sadly, doesn't get TopGear.

 

[Lethalchem]

From what I can gather you don't seem to get TopGear, sure it's a car show, but it's different to all the others, they have fun on that show if that means making fun of the GT40 to get a Jerremy then so be it, the bottom line is that when the car was tested it was good and when they start having a laugh at the end it's not saying the car is bad.

Oh, you are totally right. I've never even seen the show. I don't think we even get it here, do we? I wish we did, it looks like an outstanding program. Clips like that are the only things I've seen on it. I knew they were just poking fun at him, and I can appreciate that. I laughed at it too, to be honest. But, when I read thread after thread on here echoing the same attitudes MINUS the joking demeanor, then it takes on a monotonous/exhausting feel.

 

[Famine]

Nobody who considers "a" car to be crap simply because of where it's from deserves any thought at all.

 

[Lethalchem]

Nobody who considers "a" car to be crap simply because of where it's from deserves any thought at all.

Thank you 👍. I suppose that one sentence would have been the shorter route for me to have taken rather than the way I attempted it.

 

[Dave A]

I think we can all agree on that comment from Famine.

 

[McLaren]

I have never thought of a car as crap by where it came from. I think of design, and maybe the way it drives (If I can ever get to drive it). Sometimes I like a design, sometimes I hate a design.

 

[98cobra]

Back on topic. I would like to see different Saleens. Like an S281, S351, SA20. I know the S7 will be in there for sure.

 

[McLaren]

Back on topic. I would like to see different Saleens. Like an S281, S351, SA20. I know the S7 will be in there for sure.

IT would be nice. Which model is the white one, with the white wheels? Cause I'm guessing it's the S351, right?

 

[98cobra]

SA20. Only if you're talking about the one with the black hood.

 

[xcsti]

Nice stang 👍

 

[McLaren]

SA20. Only if you're talking about the one with the black hood.

Only seen the one with the white hood, but I like that black. For some reason, I like the white body and white wheels. Usually I don't like a car that has matching wheels and body color.

 

[code_kev]

Just gimme the cars from bullit, and I shall be one happy puppy.

 

[98cobra]

👍 That would be nice.