Muscle cars Suck

[Duke]

Originally posted by James1985
these cars may be good in a staright line great 1/4 of a mile time but that dose't prove much who cares if it is fast in a straight line if u cant carry that speed into corners whats the point

In Europe we can make and design much better more powrefull engines that dont burn holes in the atmosherre Muscle cars are very basic crude and simple proberly why americans love them.

OK, Euro-trash Fanboy, you're asking for it. Here are some meatheaded American muscle cars you better learn about if you think that we can only go fast in a straight line:

Shelby Daytona Coupe. Beat the living crap out of the best Europe had to offer, winning the LeMans 24 hour in its maiden year, and the World GT Championship the year after that.

Trans-Am prepped Mustang driven by world famous GT driver Peter Revson, on the inside, and Trans-Am Camaro driven by Mark Donahue - also a world famous GT driver - on the outside. Wait, that's - gasp - a curve they're taking! And a tight one at that! Both cars were highly competitive in late '60s road racing circles against a variety of European cars. Ever heard of another guy named Dan Gurney? Also a championship-winning GT driver, sitting on good old American muscle. I recommend you look these names up, youngster.

Here's something a little newer. Did you think the one in GT3 is a fantasy car like the Japanese "LM"s? Nope. Kicked ass and took names, winning the 24-hour Daytona in 2000, again against the finest Europe could muster. Funny thing how a French team looked to American muscle for their race car!

That's just for starters. I could go on, and I just might if I get the urge again.

It pays to know what you're talking about when you make stupid generalizations. At least then you can try to back them up, instead of repeating the same old tired points over again.

 

[James1985]

compare those cars to european race cars and the us car will be laggng behind i cant wait till gt 4 online play then we can pitch both types of cars on a race and see who wins Europe Vs Usa

 

[Ford427]

The funny thing is you're this "Muscle fan" yet you dissagree with the fact that a Corvette isn't a muscle car. Heck, even Musclecarclub.com doesn't think that a Corvette is a Muscle car. The Corvette has always been a PURPOSE built sports car/racer. No muscle car would come stock with a fiberglass body, or a 2 seater being the only option. If you don't believe me, check it out for yourself. I trust this deffinition over any other i've ever heard of simply because it makes sense and includes all of the "PRoven" muscle cars that are out there.

Hmm, I see where your going with that, but I call it "muscle" in the sense of its engine, and yes, its more of a track racer than a dragster.

Hmm, I really couldn't stomach that list of muscle cars. At all. Unless, of course, it means the car coming off the showroom floor. "Only GTs and Boss mustangs considered muscle cars?". Screw off. What happened to Mach 1? "Only SS and and Z28 models are considered muscle cars?" Well then, just completely knock off the RS Camaro, one of the greats.

Friend of mine (Ryan Moore) has a 1969 Camaro, he threw away the old engine and replaced it with a chevy 383 stroker. Did some suspension and rear end mods as well. Would you consider this a muscle car, but only because of the mods?

 

[James1985]

and i thought Daytona was an oval track so no major tpyes of turns beacuse your cars cant handle it Here is the list of le mans 24 hour winners the only us car i see is the ford gt 40 which is a car i like and have seen in real life running.http://www.motorsportsetc.com/champs/le_mans.htm

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by James1985
compare those cars to european race cars and the us car will be laggng behind i cant wait till gt 4 online play then we can pitch both types of cars on a race and see who wins Europe Vs Usa

Ummm, excuse me?! "Lagging behind"?! What part of "World GT Championship", "24 Hours at LeMans", "24 Hours at Daytona", did you miss? Connect those with this word:
WIN
Pretty hard to win when you're "lagging behind". Or perhaps you're suggesting that all those cars were actually a lap down and no one noticed? Or maybe they cheated, or they used their political clout like Enzo Ferrari does to bend the rules?

For the record, the Daytona 24 hours uses the infield road course, not just the banked oval. Get it right before you speak.

I repeat, and I'll emphasize: know what you're talking about, or shut up.

 

[James1985]

how many USA cars do u see herehttp://www.motorsportsetc.com/champs/le_mans.htm

 

[Ford427]

the only us car i see is the ford gt 40

The GT-40 is not american, nor is it british. A little bit of both, I guess. The engine for the GT-40 was designed and built in the US, with the body coming from Europe. It was Ford's way of showing they could beat Ferrari. And they did.

 

[James1985]

a very nice car i saw it a goodwood festivel of speed going ip the hill very nice car check out pics. Go in as a guest and in the seacrh bit type in goodwood.http://www.sutton-images.com/

 

[Duke]

Heh, not to mention Carroll Shelby's beast at the top of my post, which had also thrashed Ferrari. In fact, thrashed them so soundly that Enzo stayed home and hid the following year!

Well, James1985, I'm done educating you. Feel free to live in your little "Americans suck" bubble.

 

[James1985]

all i will say is two cars against over 50 the odds arnt in your favor

 

[87GrandNational]

Originally posted by James1985
compare those cars to european race cars and the us car will be laggng behind i cant wait till gt 4 online play then we can pitch both types of cars on a race and see who wins Europe Vs Usa

Wait a min you cant compair real life and video game.
Im ganna try and put this to an end.
Muscle Cars will own the quarter mile over any Import.
If you dont consider the Vette or Viper a muscle car then RACE ONE!
Try keeping up with my old mans 70 Vette, 400 hp. This is car is 33 years old,, where were your tuner cars?
And my old mans vette isnt the fastest old school car around but it kicks the **** out of just about anything else on the street. And if he cant beat it in a straight line i step in, if i cant beat it, it sure isnt a tuner car.
Pick a better thread, so you dont get owned on a message board.

 

[James1985]

keep up with thishttp://www.caterham.co.uk/showroom/sevens/superlight.htm

 

[Duke]

OK, your turn: try to stay on the same lap as this.

[EDIT] I direct your attention to the #2 "Comp Car" in the second column. 1.13 g's on the skidpad, and 60-0 mph about 112 feet? And American cars are only good in a straight line? Oh, yeah, 0-60 in well under 4 seconds. We're good at that too. [/EDIT]

 

[milefile]

And nobody has even mentioned the GT40 yet. Won Le Mans four years in a row. The Corvette also did very well this past race. It might have won the GT class. I can't remember though.

This James guy is just a stubborn moron. Loads of irrefutable evidence has been provided and he persists in his little fantasy. Personally, I could care less if he admits he's wrong. We all know he is.

 

[wee_man]

Okay on the subject of the classics, just cast your mind back to the 60's. As Milefile correctly pointed out the GT40's whoped ass at Le Mans and one it on several occasions. But if you go back even further to the early 60's and sports car racing in Europe one of the main competitors is shown below by Neon_Duke- an AC Cobra. It ine the championship on more than one occasion and it's one of your tepical muscle cars. And who was it's main competitor, Ferrari. They were the complete opposite end of the spectrum from muscle cars. They were heavily tuned V12, with tweaked handling and the works. They were really specially built for competition, and compared to the Cobras on paper they didn't have a chance. Yet when it came down to it the Cobras beat them sometimes hands down and sometimes they lost. But mainly they beat the Ferrari's. Okay be it the Cobras only beat the cars in it's class, but they still had some fierce competition from Jaguar and other manufacturers as well.

 

[James1985]

http://www.928porsche.net/956.htm

 

[milefile]

Interesting. The page cannot be displayed. Can you do anything besides post links? Do you, personally, know anything about cars? Didn't think so.

 

[James1985]

i just hate arogant people who cant handle that a msucle car is not as good as they think people think these are the best in the world and i dont rate them but i dont live in america. both america and europe have very different car cultures and needs from there cars which is why we have a different opionion and tastes how many "Muscle Cars" do u see in europe and how many hot hatches do u see in the Usa not many.

In the usa Muscle cars brought power full cars to normal people in the 60s. In the 70s and 80s in europe we had cars like the Golf GTI mk1, peugeot 205 Gti and in the 90s the Renault Clio Williams these cars brought the same thing to people in europe and these cars are just as legendry to people in europe as your most famous muscle cars like the Dodge Charger.

Now a new wave of hot hatches are coming out the Clio V6, Ford Foucus RS and the Golf R32.

Instead of arguing maybe we can educate each other in each others car cultures.

 

[milefile]

You started this thread with "Muscle cars suck." Now you want to stop arguing because you have been thoroughly trounced. I guarantee you that every one here has respect for European cars. But when you say something like "Muscle cars suck", pretty much any car enthusiast will argue with you, especially American ones.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by James1985
i just hate arogant people who cant handle that a msucle car is not as good as they think people think these are the best in the world and i dont rate them but i dont live in america. both america and europe have very different car cultures and needs from there cars which is why we have a different opionion and tastes how many "Muscle Cars" do u see in europe and how many hot hatches do u see in the Usa not many.

I'll tell you what, you stupid idiot, you are doing exactly what you hate by posting an arrogant thread with the opposite viewpoint.

By making a thread that is the exact opposite of the muscle car fanatics' viewpoint, you are every bit as arrogant as they are, except on the other end of the spectrum. If a muscle car fanatic posted a thread about how bad non-muscle cars are, you'd scream and post links, bad grammar and all. You can't expect us to not do the same to your thread about how bad all muscle cars are.

Quit thinking you're right. You aren't. You may continue to think you're right, but not a single person here gives a damn if you continue to hold theories that have been soundly disproven. We get a lot of people like you; most give up after they've been beaten. Please choose the same course.

Instead of arguing maybe we can educate each other in each others car cultures.

Fine, your car culture sucks.

Am I arrogant? Sure.

But that's exactly what you just did here.

Go crawl into a corner and think about it.

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by James1985
i just hate arogant people who cant handle that a msucle car is not as good as they think people think these are the best in the world and i dont rate them

Ah, but see, I never said "European cars suck". I never claimed you were arrogant, though you clearly are with your sterotypical European "Americans are uncultured slobs" attitude. I merely refuted the points you thought you were making, in your assumption of European superiority.

I can discuss European cars as well, with their supposed handling prowess and speed.

Did you know that fully restored versions of both a Jag XKE and a Porsche 356 were severely beaten in an autocross competition by a stock Honda Odyssey minivan? So much for European refinement.

 

[James1985]

All i ment by suck is they dont handle. And i was talking about normal Standard cars. your only counter attack was your american race cars but european race cars are better then american cars beacuse if the nature of the tracks. The history of US racing was ovels Started as grass tracks then were made of wood ovels befor briks and the tarmac. And the US has stuck with that format. Which is why your cars have those charistics of powerfull engine. In europe racing was on puplic roads with twists and turns and that is what our cars relate to. The ultimate drivers track in the World as said by some of the best drivers is the Old 12mile Nurburgring in germany a mucle car would have no chance

 

[milefile]

*sigh*

What's the point?

 

[Duke]

There isn't one, against such titanic bloodyminded pig-headedness as this. You cannot educate those who choose not to be educated.

 

[James1985]

U cant judge a car on its straight line speed it must be good into the corners and i am afraid to say it if no nothing about the old nurburgring the greatest race track in the world. How can u be a motosport fan. Every car manufactor takes ther cars ther for testing because if u want to no if your car is good then u must take you car there. U have to see it for your self because words dont discribe this track and its history

 

[James1985]

when i mean they suck all the power in muscle cars means nothing when you aproach a corner like that. A Ford Ka could take it better. LOL.

 

[milefile]

Idiot. Squared.

LOL

 

[1X83Z]

This is a total joke. I don't believe there are people like this.

 

[Famine]

James - a Ford Ka could NOT take any corner quicker than any muscle car precisely for the reason you posted (inadvertantly):

A Ford Ka wears 135/55 T13 tyres - this means that ant any point in time it has roughly 27cm wide of rubber on the ground (that's 11 inches for our American friends). Now let's compare that to a Muscle car with 235 tyres - 47cm of rubber (19 inches) on the ground. Now, which car has the higher mechanical grip level? YOU DO THE MATHS.

Now I'm almost certain that no stock muscle car could outcorner a stock Supra or Skyline - and the strip times (if you care about them, which I don't) would be close, but probably end up in favour of the muscle cars.

But who cares? If I'm driving on a public road I'm not going to be pushing my tyres to the cornering limit on every corner - or indeed any. I'm not made of money you know.

BTW the car I drive is a Ford Fiesta 1.3i (same chassis, engine and tyres as the Ka), the next car I'm getting is a Mazda MX-3 V6, the car I'm saving for is a Toyota Supra TT and my favourite car in GT2 was the 1969 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 (and I hope to own one someday - they've lasted 34 years, they'll last until I can get one )

If you are a car-lover as you claim, you need to start to learn to appreciate each and every car on it's merits, and not stick to the racism you're currently exhibiting.

 

[James1985]

i was being sarcastic you d i c k heads