myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019Formula 1 

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LMSCorvetteGT2
I knew at some point if Max was challenged something like this would happen, when we can even predict that, don't you think it says something about the driver?
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This right here is exactly my issue with Max. Sure he’s a quick guy, but he races with such disrespect towards every other driver that it makes it impossible to support him. Every other driver at some point today made that exact pass work legally, but Max couldn’t. People call him exciting, but that’s only because you don’t know if he’s going to pass a car or take them out all together. That’s not the type of person that should be racing in F1. If that’s how he drives, send him to nascar or DTM
 
Betty blue
There is Nothing wrong with Max's move as much as Vettel didn't deserve a penalty in Canada. What on earth is wrong with these people who want robotic racing and arguing like lawyers!!
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What on earth is wrong with these people? What an argument you've made here or lack of one. Again F1 should have consistency and no cherry pick or grab rulings out of the ether. The rules:

20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his. For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a 'significant portion'.

Leclerc respected this, it's this next rule that is the issue...

20.5 Maneuvers liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.
 
Betty blue
There is Nothing wrong with Max's move as much as Vettel didn't deserve a penalty in Canada. What on earth is wrong with these people who want robotic racing and arguing like lawyers!!
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Strictly by the rules, both moves were wrong. Whether those rules should be that way, is another point of discussion.

I think the rules should take actual consequences into account more. Did you cause a crash? Penalty. Did you force someone slightly offtrack, without any danger, in an overtake that would have happened anyway, just let them race.
 
PaMu1337
I just saw that Kubica got driver of the day. How?
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It's not a remark on his talent and showmanship, just how long it takes him to finish a race.


A lot of people think that the runoffs in F1 harm racing. "Put barriers on the white lines," they say. "That'll stop drivers running wide with no consequences," they say.

So let's imagine that there's barriers just after the white lines (they don't even build them onto the white lines at Monaco) and imagine what the consequences of this contact would have been. Leclerc would have been driven straight into the barrier, and the reaction would likely have destroyed, launched or at least spun Verstappen as his rear-left wheel trips over Leclerc's front-right. We're not talking about something safe then.

It's only relatively a consequence-free manouevre due to the context of the track and corner run-off. Would Verstappen have done the same thing at a Monaco-like track, knowing that he'd destroy the other car and potentially his own? I'd hope not, but it should highlight that it's a dangerous move.


That aside, it looks very much like Verstappen made absolutely no attempt to take the apex, turning in very late and after Leclerc had started his turn (he sort of had to, because the road finished) specifically to keep him out wide and run him out of road - to force him to concede or to drive off the track:

taxitotheapex.jpg


He definitely can't complain about getting a penalty for that, although if he does he - and Horner - will.

And while everyone's complaining about F1 and races decided off the track and so on and so forth, remember that the sport is run according to rules, we do know what those rules are, it's a non-contact sport, the rules are there to stop more drivers from dying, and if you don't want the sport's officials to get involved in deciding races off the track, stop idolising drivers who knowingly break the rules and drive into other cars.
 
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Akmuq
I'm going to take a guess and say this isn't your first time talking about DRS being bad.
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Nope, and I’m completely against any sort of KERS, alternate engine modes or any sort of Go-Go Gadget Passing that takes away from the skill of defending or setting up proper overtakes
 
Vegard
Take off your dutch tinted glasses.

Max made the same move a lap earlier but failed to make it stick because the Ferrari got the better drive out of T3.
So he decided to force the Ferrari off track the next time around.

He clearly had the pace on the Ferrari, yes. But he couldn't make a clean pass so he decided to force his way through.
Textbook dirty driving.
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I guess I should say nothing then because I'll be accused of wearing Dutch tinted glasses too. That's not the way to win an argument.

I just witnessed a brilliant race!
 
FutureF1
This right here is exactly my issue with Max. Sure he’s a quick guy, but he races with such disrespect towards every other driver that it makes it impossible to support him. Every other driver at some point today made that exact pass work legally, but Max couldn’t. People call him exciting, but that’s only because you don’t know if he’s going to pass a car or take them out all together. That’s not the type of person that should be racing in F1. If that’s how he drives, send him to nascar or DTM
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That is absolutely ridiculous!
 
Given that Vettel once got a penalty for something not as bad as this (Germany 2012), I can see this going Leclerc's way. Which is a shame for all sorts of reasons.
 
MrWaflz55
Nope, and I’m completely against any sort of KERS, alternate engine modes or any sort of Go-Go Gadget Passing that takes away from the skill of defending or setting up proper overtakes
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So then you only watch Miatas race?
 
Charles made his bed by defending the outside, Max was always going to end up deep by braking so late from such an acute angle. I don't see Max's overtake as malicious so to me no penalty needed. Wheel banging happens, that is just hard racing. But the stewards and the way they interpret the rules will probably say other wise.
 
I also don't understand how some people say "this is racing" and "this is what people want". I mean, what I want is the type of racing Max and LeClerc showed pne lap prior to that. That was within the rules and brought us a longer fight.

What Max did was effectively ending the racing most people want, imo.

@MikeV27 LeClerc probably thought Max would kept it inside the track as he did the lap before. Had he known Max would push him off trach, he would for sure take the inside line.
 
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I dont understand how pushing someone off track isn't a penalty but losing control and saving it is. There was no contact in Canada yet there was here and yet they are more worried about who they are giving it too then why they are giving it.

Everything that they seem to do looks like they are pandering to certain drivers and teams. Doesn't help the image of the sport.

Regardless, a lot better racing then everything else so far
 
zzz_pt
I also don't understand how some people say "this is racing"
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Because it is, if you want to penalize all these guys for every little thing then they might as well just go home.
 
MikeV27
Because it is, if you want to penalize all these guys for every little thing then they might as well just go home.
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Causing a collision (in a non-contact sport, with open-wheel cars that react very badly when wheels rub in the direction of travel) and driving another car off the road is not exactly a "little thing"... In fact it's possibly the biggest thing.

D-UtvONXoAM85u6.jpg
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MikeV27
Because it is, if you want to penalize all these guys for every little thing then they might as well just go home.
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I know accidents and braking the rules is part of racing. It's just not part of the racing I think people want to watch. As @Famine pointed out, had Max made this in Monaco or Baku, the race would end for both. The rules are there to make racing fair. Pushing opponents off track is not a "little thing".
 
Well, I missed the race, and I made the mistake of spoiling it for myself.

One thing I will say, is that while I'm of the opinion that the spirit of racing should always at least be considered, I do think it'll make the FIA look pretty bad if they don't hold up their consistency, especially since unlike Vettel in Canada, Max was in control of his car at all times. Would still be a crappy win for Charles, as much as I would like him to get his first victory.

Also, what TF did Kubica do to get Driver of the Day?! :crazy:
 
5 second penalty + SR down. You know it makes sense.

Famine
Causing a collision (in a non-contact sport, with open-wheel cars that react very badly when wheels rub in the direction of travel) and driving another car off the road is not exactly a "little thing"... In fact it's possibly the biggest thing.
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Yep this is fake, it got me too.
 
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Or not yet
 
PASM
I guess I should say nothing then because I'll be accused of wearing Dutch tinted glasses too. That's not the way to win an argument.
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You think it was a fair move? Would you be happy with me making that move on you?
 
Famine
Causing a collision (in a non-contact sport, with open-wheel cars that react very badly when wheels rub in the direction of travel) and driving another car off the road is not exactly a "little thing"...

D-UtvONXoAM85u6.jpg
​
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I think that's fake?
 
Well done Charles Leclerc!

Edit: Hold that thought, fake news!
 
Famine
Causing a collision (in a non-contact sport, with open-wheel cars that react very badly when wheels rub in the direction of travel) and driving another car off the road is not exactly a "little thing"... In fact it's possibly the biggest thing.

D-UtvONXoAM85u6.jpg
​
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Oh c'mon now lol
 
I was going to make a comment on the overlap of how many people find Verstappen's move dirty yet praise Senna, but it seems @Famine beat me to it.
 
Famine
Causing a collision (in a non-contact sport, with open-wheel cars that react very badly when wheels rub in the direction of travel) and driving another car off the road is not exactly a "little thing"... In fact it's possibly the biggest thing.

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[/spoiler]
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Oh please, wheel banging happens all the time in every category out there. You are not being realistic if you expect 100% contact free racing.
 
SVX
I was going to make a comment on the overlap of how many people find Verstappen's move dirty yet praise Senna, but it seems @Famine beat me to it.
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Are people praising Senna for a dirty overtake alone? Or for his career as a whole, his charisma, his personality off track, etc, etc? I don't see the connection. Max is at the start of his career...
 
MikeV27
Oh please, wheel banging happens all the time in every category out there. You are not being realistic if you expect 100% contact free racing.
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Clearly you've never watched open wheel documentary Driven, it's eye opening. /s
 
Why are they taking so long? Are they waiting for Verstappen fans to leave the circuit?
 
MikeV27
Oh please, wheel banging happens all the time in every category out there. You are not being realistic if you expect 100% contact free racing.
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I'm not expecting zero contact; in fact I'm entirely expecting contact, more from some drivers than others. On the flip side of that particular non-argument, you are not being realistic if you expect car-to-car contacts in a non-contact sport with specific rules against contact not to be investigated and have the guilty party punished by the stewards.

It's literally prohibited in the rules. It's so prohibited that drivers are even punished for dangerous acts that might, but don't, result in contact. That's because nobody wants to see drivers dying again (except for the ghoulish). With open wheel cars, that risk is so much higher because there's exposed, rapidly rotating parts that can interact with each other with chaotic results.
 
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