NASCAR Suspends Cup Series Driver Kyle Larson for Racist Language During Virtual Race Stream

[Auditore]

There really is a defense force for everything,jeez.
He must use the word alot to let it slip in a livestream where thousands of people could see it.

 

[05XR8]

What time and place would be good?

I'd say 8 o'clock, my place. We'll watch School Daze. There's a good, short scene, between Larry Fishburne and Sam Jackson and others, addressing the use of the word. Oh and I'm of African descent.

 

[Vinylshark]

Crazy how one second of not-thinking-before-speaking can change your whole future in such a drastic way.

 

[Kazuya720]

Americans are so over sensitve about cursing and cursing groups. So what so super offending, what he said? C'mon, its just a virutal racing, nothing to get to serious. So pathetic!

 

[ynot]

Are most NASCAR drivers disrespectful like this? I don't know anything about their common behavior.

No, great people, great sport

The fact of the matter is, is that anti-blackness, and racism against black peoples, transcends race. It is not, no pun intended, a black or white issue. White people, since the very founding of America, and even before, in Europe and the lands that the West colonized, believed that black people are inferior. That extends down to minorities as well, and it continues, to this very day.

I do not agree

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

*Sigh*... although I'm surpised, but still...

 

[Silver Arrows]

Americans are so over sensitve about cursing and cursing groups. So what so super offending, what he said? C'mon, its just a virutal racing, nothing to get to serious. So pathetic!

Read this entire thread again, and realize that the word is question is nowhere near a 'curse', and is in fact, much worse then any swear word could ever be.

I do not agree

Wonderful refuting of the point. Want to try and elaborate on that point?

 

[GTWolverine]

Over history we've seen people oppressed by a word choose to try to "take it back". Young black people will refer to each other by the word simply because it's a shared heritage - "my person whose ancestors were also kept as slaves and referred to in such a manner".

In mixed social groups, people who don't share that heritage can become close enough friends to be considered brethren, and use of the word is extended to them to reflect that.

Say something often enough, and it becomes almost muscle memory - we all have phrases we use a lot, because we simply fall back on them, and it's really tough to teach yourself not to say it, like each time I almost tell my 8-year old to shut the **** up.

Thus it slips out when it shouldn't.

It's an interesting, but moot point. For the avoidance of doubt, here's how using offensive terms works:

Rule 0:
(a): Anyone can take offence at anything, at any time, and for any reason.
(b): If a term has a long history of being used to abuse a group of people, particularly when it comes to oppression, it's considered offensive - rather than something to which offence can be taken (see 0a)

Rule 1:
(a): Only you can decide what is offensive to you.
(b): Other people don't get to decide what is offensive to you.
(c): Only other people can decide what is offensive to them.
(d): You don't get to decide what is offensive to other people.

Rule 2:
(a): If a group decides that a term is offensive to that group (as per 0b), it is offensive to that group.
(b): Not all members of a group (2a) have to agree with that classification (per 1a,b) at all times.
(c): If you don't belong to the group (2a) affected by the term (0b), whether you agree with the classification or not is not relevant (per 1a,b,c,d) because the term does not affect you.

Rule 3:
(a): If you do belong to the group affected by the term (0b,2a), your use of the term in public is subject to Rule 1.
(b): If you don't belong to that group (2a), your use of the term (0b) in public is subject to 1c, 1d.
(c): In a private conversation, use of the term (0b) is subject to any communicated arrangement between parties of Rule 1.

Rule 4:
Private organisations may have their own rules on the term, to which employees and members are subject.


A black rapper using this word in a song is 3a. A non-black actor using the word in a film is 3b. In both cases, people of any racial grouping can choose to take offence or not to take offence, but no group gets to say that other groups can or can't enjoy the song/film, because 1b. This is why rappers can use it, Mike Colter can use it in Luke Cage, Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker can use it in Rush Hour, Samuel L Jackson and Leonardo di Caprio can use it in Django Unchained, Trey Parker can use it in South Park, and Chris Rock can use it in that famous (and excellent) stand-up skit - and why we can all give our money to these people for doing so, or choose not to.

Kyle Larson's issue is he thought he was 3c (having a private conversation with pre-agreed use of the term), but he was actually 3b and broadcasting it to a few hundred thousand people, falling foul of Rule 4.

Of course you don't have to agree with NASCAR's response, or CGR, or McDonald's, or any of his other sponsors who may have dropped him. Their Rule 4 policy likely hinges on employees avoiding these terms because it's bad for business to allow terms of offence against groups of would-be customers. But it doesn't matter whether you agree or not if you aren't black, because of 2c - it's not your word to be offended by or not.

And I'm not black.

That explanation is a work of art. Bravo.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

I can see Larson coming out of this okay, he will be fired by Ganassi and miss the rest of the season but after the four week course will be hailed as rehabilitated and welcomed back at a team like Haas. Can 4 weeks of classes cure a racist, I'm not one so wouldn't know.

When he does return this will all be swept under the carpet, NASCAR won't want anything said which is bad for their business.

Edit: I mean okay from a sports perspective, his reputation is destroyed.

 

[HopAlong]

To be honest I can see both side of this, not saying its right or acceptable but I can see why younger people might be desensitised with the word. I can well imagine a lot of youngish people have only ever experienced the use of the word through mainstream media by a subset of the group its a slur against, basically as an alternative to homie/bro/mate/pal/etc. But even if you become desensitised or mean it as a joke, lots of people wont find it that way so he should have a bit of common sense.

Obviously he shouldn't have said it, but the way people react to it like they themselves have never said or done something stupid or distasteful is laughable.

 

[GTWolverine]

I can see Larson coming out of this okay, he will be fired by Ganassi and miss the rest of the season but after the four week course will be hailed as rehabilitated and welcomed back at a team like Haas. Can 4 weeks of classes cure a racist, I'm not one so wouldn't know.

When he does return this will all be swept under the carpet, NASCAR won't want anything said which is bad for their business.

Edit: I mean okay from a sports perspective, his reputation is destroyed.

He's probably not coming back to NASCAR for a while, at least not at the national level. He'll probably have to run dirt tracks and short tracks for a while before attempting any sort of a comeback. He could also try sports car racing, or IndyCar (if they'll take Santino Ferrucci, they'll take anyone, if they're fast enough).

 

[Silver Arrows]

Obviously he shouldn't have said it, but the way people react to it like they themselves have never said or done something stupid or distasteful is laughable.

Yeah, because I have definitely used a word that has incredibly specific, insulting, and damaging meanings towards a specific race in particular.

There is a world of difference between doing something 'stupid' and 'distasteful', and saying, on public channels, a word that is based entirely around racist thoughts and ideals. Moreover, most people are smart enough to realize their mistakes, and apologize. There is no apologizing or making up for mistakes when you use such an ugly word, or more specifically, use language that is rooted squarely and directly within racist thought processes. Even if you do apologize, it is up for those that have been wronged from the language used to accept the apology. And guess what? They are within their right to deny the apology as being fake, saving face, and what have you.

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

To be honest I can see both side of this, not saying its right or acceptable but I can see why younger people might be desensitised with the word. I can well imagine a lot of youngish people have only ever experienced the use of the word through mainstream media by a subset of the group its a slur against, basically as an alternative to homie/bro/mate/pal/etc. But even if you become desensitised or mean it as a joke, lots of people wont find it that way so he should have a bit of common sense.

Obviously he shouldn't have said it, but the way people react to it like they themselves have never said or done something stupid or distasteful is laughable.

Sorry but there's no defence for the n-word in 2020, I don't care what mental gymnastics you use to skirt around it.

There really is a defense force for everything,jeez.
He must use the word alot to let it slip in a livestream where thousands of people could see it.

Exactly. It's exactly the same think as when a MSNBC* News reporter deliberately referred to the LA Lakers as the LA N*****s on live TV...
*thanks for the correction @Adamgp

The way he said it was even like a plantation owner shouting a slave who wasn't pulling their weight. I very obviously cannot post the video, but Josef Newgarden's physical reaction on his own Twitch stream covered it to perfection.

Even Conor Daly was shocked on his stream, and he previously lost sponsors via second-hand stories of his dad using the word.


Sorry, but anyone trying to defend Larsen by blaming 'political correctness', 'freedom of speech' and 'oh but they say it a lot in their music', is quite clearly part of the problem themselves and not only that, but probably actively contribute towards the problem themselves because this is the typical go-to response/defence mechanism of racists.

 

[Adamgp]

Exactly. It's exactly the same think as when a Fox News reporter deliberately referred to the LA Lakers as the LA N*****s on live TV...

Pretty sure that was an MSNBC reporter.

Kyle may make a comeback, but it will take a while and he probably won't ever be back at the level he was at.

 

[Joey D]

Americans are so over sensitve about cursing and cursing groups. So what so super offending, what he said? C'mon, its just a virutal racing, nothing to get to serious. So pathetic!

What Larson said isn't a curse word. If he'd said "Hey mf'er", then he'd probably just been slapped on the hand and said knock it off, maybe some sort of a fine too. But he used a word that has serious negative connotations in America. It was a word used by slave owners to refer to their human "property" during a really dark time in our nation's past. After the end of slavery, that word was then used to hostilely refer to African-Americans and continues to be used in a racist context. Cursing is fine, it's neither here-nor-there, but racism isn't cursing, it's actually hating people because of the color of their skin.

To be honest I can see both side of this, not saying its right or acceptable but I can see why younger people might be desensitised with the word. I can well imagine a lot of youngish people have only ever experienced the use of the word through mainstream media by a subset of the group its a slur against, basically as an alternative to homie/bro/mate/pal/etc. But even if you become desensitised or mean it as a joke, lots of people wont find it that way so he should have a bit of common sense.

Obviously he shouldn't have said it, but the way people react to it like they themselves have never said or done something stupid or distasteful is laughable.

The big difference is that that in most media, people use the -a ending instead of the -r ending. The -a ending has a different context (typically along the lines of bro/pal/etc), but it is something that non-African-Americans shouldn't be using.

 

[Veinz]

Can't see him getting resigned at CGR. I think his career has been cancelled.

 

[DesertPenguin]

The -a ending has a different context (typically along the lines of bro/pal/etc), but it is something that non-African-Americans shouldn't be using.

I've worked in a store where at least 75% of the workers were black, hispanic, or some ethnic minority. Whites were the minority there. Sometimes we'd be having conversations about our day, stupid customers, that kind of thing. I was telling a story and in the story the black customer said "Hey wadup my *****" to me as we started the transaction. It was casual and we got along well. So when it got to the part where I told them what he said to me, I asked if I can say what he said or not. They said don't worry about it. It's contextual.

Edit: Thanks for the edit.

 

[FoRiZon]

Please for alot of people try to differentiate between a curse words and a slur words.

Also pretty sure black communities uses with faint -a ending between them. A hard -r would still a very offensive regardless of from and to whom it uttered (especially if you're not on in that community in the first place).

 

[lancia delta hf]

The fact of the matter is, is that anti-blackness, and racism against black peoples, transcends race. It is not, no pun intended, a black or white issue. White people, since the very founding of America, and even before, in Europe and the lands that the West colonized, believed that black people are inferior. That extends down to minorities as well, and it continues, to this very day.

You're talking like blacks arent racist. You're talking like europeans had a patent on colonizing. There are a lot of racist attacks on jews and asians in America. You hear about attacks on asians during this virus outbreak, but you dont hear about them being white, which you would if they were white. It's black who are the culprits of these racist attacks. Anti-whiteness is a sport in its own right today. Whiteness and Blackness are both pathetic words btw.

Maybe you should, considering it's a word with incredibly specific, damaging, and hurtful connotations towards a specific race of peoples.



.

So damaging and hurtful to that race of peoples that many of them constantly use it against each other.....i know i know......

Does this really need to be explained to you?

Seriously?

Read this, all of it.
https://www.theroot.com/why-its-ok-for-black-people-but-not-white-people-to-u-1826255011

It's ok for one race to use a word but not another.......No it isnt. If you use that word dont be offended if others of diferent races use it. There are no words that only one race can use, this is just stupid. I've been called a wop many times by my friends, they're joking so i dont mind, but if they said it in an arguement or a stranger said it then that would be a different story, however you dont have to be italian, and southern Italian in particular to use that word. Dont use words that you're gonna get upset by, thats just a way to try to have power over people.

I've worked in a store where at least 75% of the workers were black, hispanic, or some ethnic minority. Whites were the minority there. Sometimes we'd be having conversations about our day, stupid customers, that kind of thing. I was telling a story and in the story the black customer said "Hey wadup my n***a" to me as we started the transaction. It was casual and we got along well. So when it got to the part where I told them what he said to me, I asked if I can say what he said or just say "N word". They said don't worry about it. It's contextual.

If you hang around people long enough who say ceratin words you're going to start using those words too. I use certain neapolitan swear words and my english mates use them too now by habbit. You could easily let that word slip out and then someone would think you're a racist, when that isnt the case. I am not making that case for this driver btw.

 

[davidt33]

e-racing is serious business.

Hope they don't watch Dave Chappelle Show.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Anti-whiteness is a sport in its own right today.

Are you really trying to say that white people are the victim? C'mon now...

 

[Silver Arrows]

Anti-whiteness is a sport in its own right today.

There is no such thing as anti-whiteness, especially when you consider that even *if* 'anti-whiteness' existed...that white people still ultimately hold the power in the world. White people have always been able to control who, or what, gets decided as racist, and who gets to be considered 'forgiven', or how 'acceptable' an apology is. Not the people that actually are affected by, in this case anti-blackness and racism against black peoples, but racism against all other minorities.

'Anti-whiteness', frankly, is a right wing buzz word from people that are afraid of actually being challenged on the (very true) point that white people ultimately get to call the shots in regards to racism. And minorities especially aren't going to take it anymore - rightfully.

You're talking like europeans had a patent on colonizing

Because...they did? Need I remind you of the damages and the horrors done by colonizing nations of European descent in every continent in the world? Of which a lot of the racism towards black people in these continents are directly birthed from feelings of black people brought on by their colonial governments?

More over, since you brought it up, and I'm sure it's going to be flogged like a dead horse over and over again: Yes, Italian and Irish peoples were discriminated against in North America specifically. However, notice how after the turn of the century, and once black people in America began to demand more in terms of representation and rights, how American society rolled over Irish and Italian peoples into the umbrella of whiteness? Frankly, it shows that no matter where you come from, if you are white, you still will be considered white, and that benefits you when it comes to speaking and understanding how systems of racism and discrimination work. If you are black, you don't have that option.

 

[tankuroded]

Can't see him getting resigned at CGR. I think his career has been cancelled.

Not before World of Outlaws suspends him too, since many are expecting him to stick to dirt ovals.

EDIT: At this point, is it fair to compare people who stand by Larson to the Vic Mignogna situation?

 

[Blitz24]

Not before World of Outlaws suspends him too, since many are expecting him to stick to dirt ovals.

EDIT: At this point, is it fair to compare people who stand by Larson to the Vic Mignogna situation?

He's done at Chip Ganassi:
https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2...ship-with-kyle-larson/?linkId=100000011767310

 

[Scaff]

You're talking like blacks arent racist. You're talking like europeans had a patent on colonizing. There are a lot of racist attacks on jews and asians in America. You hear about attacks on asians during this virus outbreak, but you dont hear about them being white, which you would if they were white.
It's black who are the culprits of these racist attacks.

Citation required.

Anti-whiteness is a sport in its own right today.

It's not at all, but nice copy/paste from the racists playbook.

So damaging and hurtful to that race of peoples that many of them constantly use it against each other.....i know i know......
It's ok for one race to use a word but not another.......No it isnt. If you use that word dont be offended if others of diferent races use it. There are no words that only one race can use, this is just stupid. I've been called a wop many times by my friends, they're joking so i dont mind, but if they said it in an arguement or a stranger said it then that would be a different story, however you dont have to be italian, and southern Italian in particular to use that word. Dont use words that you're gonna get upset by, thats just a way to try to have power over people.

Didn't bother reading the article I see.

If you hang around people long enough who say ceratin words you're going to start using those words too. I use certain neapolitan swear words and my english mates use them too now by habbit. You could easily let that word slip out and then someone would think you're a racist, when that isnt the case.

Swearing and racial abuse are not comparable.

I am not making that case for this driver btw.

Oh you are, you just made an entire "I'm not racist, but...." post.

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

You're talking like blacks arent racist. You're talking like europeans had a patent on colonizing. There are a lot of racist attacks on jews and asians in America. You hear about attacks on asians during this virus outbreak, but you dont hear about them being white, which you would if they were white. It's black who are the culprits of these racist attacks. Anti-whiteness is a sport in its own right today. Whiteness and Blackness are both pathetic words btw.


So damaging and hurtful to that race of peoples that many of them constantly use it against each other.....i know i know......
It's ok for one race to use a word but not another.......No it isnt. If you use that word dont be offended if others of diferent races use it. There are no words that only one race can use, this is just stupid. I've been called a wop many times by my friends, they're joking so i dont mind, but if they said it in an arguement or a stranger said it then that would be a different story, however you dont have to be italian, and southern Italian in particular to use that word. Dont use words that you're gonna get upset by, thats just a way to try to have power over people.


If you hang around people long enough who say ceratin words you're going to start using those words too. I use certain neapolitan swear words and my english mates use them too now by habbit. You could easily let that word slip out and then someone would think you're a racist, when that isnt the case. I am not making that case for this driver btw.

You might want to reword parts of this because it's coming across as you throwing shade at black people by blaming them for other instances of racism and then trying to say you're the victim in the grander scheme of things whilst covertly defending Larson's use of the n-word... although, I am 100% convinced that this is exactly what you're trying to do here... this entire post reads as "At ThE eNd oF tHe DaY yEaH/I'm NoT rAcIsT bUt".

 

[lancia delta hf]

I've worked in a store where at least 75% of the workers were black, hispanic, or some ethnic minority. Whites were the minority there. Sometimes we'd be having conversations about our day, stupid customers, that kind of thing. I was telling a story and in the story the black customer said "Hey wadup my ***** to me as we started the transaction. It was casual and we got along well. So when it got to the part where I told them what he said to me, I asked if I can say what he said or not. They said don't worry about it. It's contextual.

Are you really trying to say that white people are the victim? C'mon now...

A victim of what? Where did i say whites were victims, but while we're here: Do you know whites were slaves in far greater numbers than blacks? at the hands of non whites, do you know that it is nonsense that throughtout history 'white man evil' is a load of crap? Every race was doing the same thing, some were just more successful than others. And btw, its open season on whites if you havent noticed, particularly straight white males. In the media all you hear is antie white crap, stupid celebs like Brie Larson pushing that 'old white men' crap, Because its fashionable. These idiots are causing a divide as everything is about race for them, its all they see.

 

[DesertPenguin]

This topic should just be closed and stay closed. But at the same time keeping it open is showing us some people's true nature/opinion on things. What to do, what to do...

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

A victim of what? Where did i say whites were victims, but while we're here: Do you know whites were slaves in far greater numbers than blacks? at the hands of non whites, do you know that it is nonsense that throughtout history 'white man evil' is a load of crap? Every race was doing the same thing, some were just more successful than others. And btw, its open season on whites if you havent noticed, particularly straight white males. In the media all you hear is antie white crap, stupid celebs like Brie Larson pushing that 'old white men' crap, Because its fashionable. These idiots are causing a divide as everything is about race for them, its all they see.

It's almost as if this guy is copy & pasting from the white supremacists "how to defend racial comments/slurs" playbook... oh and you also found time to throw indirect shade at #MeToo movement for good measure, wow, you're some piece of work.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Do you know whites were slaves in far greater numbers than blacks? at the hands of non whites, do you know that it is nonsense that throughtout history 'white man evil' is a load of crap? Every race was doing the same thing, some were just more successful than others. And btw, its open season on whites if you havent noticed, particularly straight white males. In the media all you hear is antie white crap, stupid celebs like Brie Larson pushing that 'old white men' crap, Because its fashionable. These idiots are causing a divide as everything is about race for them, its all they see.

People are realizing just how stacked the deck is for white people! Something that has been the case for generations! Whodathunk.