Need For Speed Heat - General Discussion

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At this point they should skip 2019, go straigh to 2020 release as a launch title for PS5/Xbox, the spot will be completely free of competition, might be a good time to make the push for 60 fps as well.
 
So one of the guys at DICE just posted this:



I don't know if this means that DICE is gonna be pulling double duty with Tides of War in BF5 and NFS 2019 or what. But it seems like something.

Fake edit: Apparently he is still one of the community guys for NFS. Still - something might be coming.
 
Silver Arrows
So one of the guys at DICE just posted this:



I don't know if this means that DICE is gonna be pulling double duty with Tides of War in BF5 and NFS 2019 or what. But it seems like something.

Fake edit: Apparently he is still one of the community guys for NFS. Still - something might be coming.
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Basically a "See you at E3" tweet.
 
NFS series has not put out Any great games in a long time in My opinion So i don't know if i Belive on a good game this time either
 
Hopefully NFS 2019 will go back to the traditional upgrading/customisation system, and not the unnecessary speed cards which where in Payback. It worked in The Crew, but NFS is not The Crew. Might sound silly to some but that’s the main reason why I didn’t bother finishing Payback. But that’s a discussion for another thread.
 
I don't know what they were thinking with the NFS Payback upgrade system,it's like it was made for a mobile game.Hope the next game solves that stuff.
 
Auditore
I don't know what they were thinking with the NFS Payback upgrade system,it's like it was made for a mobile game.Hope the next game solves that stuff.
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The system was tailored for microtransactions, but they backed down.

Overall, I enjoyed the game very much.
 
Here is everything there is to know about NFS 2019 before the official reveal (will be linked in OP)



Some key takeaways:
4) Will brake to drift return?

B2D will likely return. Via F8RGE, Ghost's handling team made a statement 8 months ago on why they keep choosing the handling model they do. It's a very, very long post, but the key quote is the following:

Regarding the problem with grip vs drift, it is not about making grip faster than drift (doesn’t take a lot of time and have been prototype in the office several times)...

... a more realistic and grippy car will be closer to the edge making it easier to make something that will perceived as broken and not fun which could be interesting for players with a deep understanding of car physics but perhaps not for the vast majority of players...

...we find ourselves trying to find a balance, what works for the vast majority of players and what works for our core players.

In other words, B2D exists at a fundamental level because Ghost feels the majority of the fanbase would not be able to handle a more realistic and grippy handling model.

Source:

  • That being said, Ghost has also officially asked for our feedback on handling in a thread not too long ago. You can find it here:

  • It's likely whatever was stated here would be taken into account for NFS19.

Additionally, according to Ben, Ghost supposedly understands what the "core" community wants, but if you note the quote above, "core" does not mean the "majority" of the player base from their POV.

Source: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/472250134122725387/544708922108411952/Baddo1.png
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1) Ghost does not want a 2015 style performance system in future games. Directly quoting here:

2015 upgrades were basically scroll all the way to the right, press equip. We kind of want the performance upgrades to be a better experience than that.

Source 1: https://discordapp.com/channels/144572978666012673/144572978666012673/410754231902011403

He reiterated this multiple times on Discord that Ghost wants something more "in-depth" for NFS than the 2015 method.

Source 2: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/472250134122725387/544695712454148111/unknown.png
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8) There won't be any cars without customization (i.e. Ferrari's are not returning)

Source: https://discordapp.com/channels/144572978666012673/144572978666012673/418097172668743681

He has also mentioned in the past that they have company licenses, which they don't use for this very reason.
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FT-1
Here is everything there is to know about NFS 2019 before the official reveal (will be linked in OP)



Some key takeaways:
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I know its an arcade game but NFS would benefit greatly from a bit of sim racing sprinkle on top.The Driver Franchise(specifically Driver San Francisco) is obviously arcade but it always provided some learning curve for the more experienced players.

And i think casual players can do well with a more complicated(or realistic) driving physics,look at Forza Horizon the game provides fun for both casuals(driving aids) and sim racers(wheel support,full tuning).
 
In other words, B2D exists at a fundamental level because Ghost feels the majority of the fanbase would not be able to handle a more realistic and grippy handling model.
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..so what we're saying here is that the "majority of the fanbase" are young, impressionable children (industry buzzwords ftw) who have yet to learn why apples fall from trees rather than float into space.

In what possible universe, then, do they expect those same young, impressionable children to wrap their heads around their B2D model?

Also let's completely wipe from our minds how:
  1. B2D wasn't a thing in NFS until Criterion made it (and that's not a bad mark on Criterion because at least their model knew what it was doing and made for fantasic games), and
  2. basically any other car game (aside from WipEout and that one Speed Racer game) have at least some degree of "this is how you would and should expect cars to behave" and are doing just fine. Yes, even Burnout and some of the more out-there Trackmania titles!
Also, this:

8) There won't be any cars without customization (i.e. Ferrari's are not returning)

He has also mentioned in the past that they have company licenses, which they don't use for this very reason.
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Oh come the 🤬 on.

The problem with 2015 wasn't so much that there was only limited customisation on *some* cars - it was how even the most customisable cars barely had any! "Urban car culture", my tail section. And yes, that's a reference.


It's like the more they say about NFS 2019, the more it seems like they have no idea what they're saying. Which is impressive, considering their form these last six years.
 
rallymorten
..so what we're saying here is that the "majority of the fanbase" are young, impressionable children (industry buzzwords ftw) who have yet to learn why apples fall from trees rather than float into space.

In what possible universe, then, do they expect those same young, impressionable children to wrap their heads around their B2D model?

Also let's completely wipe from our minds how:
  1. B2D wasn't a thing in NFS until Criterion made it (and that's not a bad mark on Criterion because at least their model knew what it was doing and made for fantasic games), and
  2. basically any other car game (aside from WipEout and that one Speed Racer game) have at least some degree of "this is how you would and should expect cars to behave" and are doing just fine. Yes, even Burnout and some of the more out-there Trackmania titles!
Also, this:
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That same BS post that's all smoke and mirrors to distract everyone? There's nothing hard about wrapping your head around how a car should drive. A kid wont even know anything until he's old enough anyways, so it's not like that matters. It doesn't matter what they put out, a kid is always going to think this is realistic at first, whether it actually is or isn't - It being more real, someone lacking in knowledge isn't going to care as long as it's intuitive and direct.

That's the other problem though - the same old stupid argument that comes up every time someone asks for better physics. It gets misconstrued for whatever reason as if it's being ask to be more sim-like. No. Far from it. We just want to be able to actually drive predictably. These guys are full of it.

I don't know many games that have a physics engine as bad as this. Whether it be full on arcade titles, or semi-sims.
 
ImaRobot
That same BS post that's all smoke and mirrors to distract everyone? There's nothing hard about wrapping your head around how a car should drive. A kid wont even know anything until he's old enough anyways, so it's not like that matters. It doesn't matter what they put out, a kid is always going to think this is realistic at first, whether it actually is or isn't - It being more real, someone lacking in knowledge isn't going to care as long as it's intuitive and direct.

That's the other problem though - the same old stupid argument that comes up every time someone asks for better physics. It gets misconstrued for whatever reason as if it's being ask to be more sim-like. No. Far from it. We just want to be able to actually drive predictably. These guys are full of it.
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And that's sort of the point I'm trying to make. Saying that "brake-to-drift is better for the majority of the fanbase because we don't think they can handle any other model" (which effectively is what they're saying), with nothing to back that claim up, is, to put it as briefly as I can, bollocks.

I've said multiple times before that I don't consider the very act of having a brake-to-drift (or any other form of reality-bending) model a crime. I'm saying that there has to be a good reason, and that being reality-bending doesn't excuse a fundamentally flawed handling. There's a distinct difference there. See the many times I've praised Burnout Paradise.

It just so happens that Ghost can't seem to come up with a good reason for why their games deserve a reality-bending model (they even have the guts to claim that a not-reality-bending model is easier to construct - so why, given the current state of their games, are they making things unnecessarily difficult for themselves?), and that if there's no significant changes made to the handling model this time around, it'll be the same fundamentally flawed model that first reered its ugly head way back in Rivals.
 
rallymorten
And that's sort of the point I'm trying to make. Saying that "brake-to-drift is better for the majority of the fanbase because we don't think they can handle any other model" (which effectively is what they're saying), with nothing to back that claim up, is, to put it as briefly as I can, bollocks.

I've said multiple times before that I don't consider the very act of having a brake-to-drift (or any other form of reality-bending) model a crime. I'm saying that there has to be a good reason, and that being reality-bending doesn't excuse a fundamentally flawed handling. There's a distinct difference there. See the many times I've praised Burnout Paradise.

It just so happens that Ghost can't seem to come up with a good reason for why their games deserve a reality-bending model (they even have the guts to claim that a not-reality-bending model is easier to construct - so why, given the current state of their games, are they making things unnecessarily difficult for themselves?), and that if there's no significant changes made to the handling model this time around, it'll be the same fundamentally flawed model that first reered its ugly head way back in Rivals.
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It's hard to believe Ghost statements when we have a very sucessiful franchise(Forza Horizon) that is way more realistic than any NFS,not saying NFS need to be like Horizon or turn into a simulator,just that there is a big audience for games that don't "dumb down" the physics,make a car behave like a real car,casuals have a basic understanding of cars,Ghost shouldn't worry about that.
 
I remind people of this video:



So yeah. This should be the baseline of what a handling system can be in a NFS game: something grounded in reality but also not as serious enough to be a sim.

Brake to drift might have worked in HP2010 and MW2012, but it doesn't work here.
 
Ghost is basically trying to cater to two different styles of gameplay (grip and drift) at the same time, something that the handling model simply can’t do very well (at least not in it’s current state). I get the impression that they’re just reusing their modified version of the Criterion handling system for convenience/logistical reasons, rather than to the benefit of gameplay.

Ghost either has no idea what they’re doing, or no idea what they want to do.
 
Sage Ages
Ghost either has no idea what they’re doing, or no idea what they want to do.
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tenor.gif
 
Sage Ages
Ghost is basically trying to cater to two different styles of gameplay (grip and drift) at the same time, something that the handling model simply can’t do very well (at least not in it’s current state). I get the impression that they’re just reusing their modified version of the Criterion handling system for convenience/logistical reasons, rather than to the benefit of gameplay.

Ghost either has no idea what they’re doing, or no idea what they want to do.
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Remember that in the old NFS games(the ones most people love and miss) Drift wasn't a thing you could do anytime you wanted,Underground 1 & 2,Most Wanted and Carbon had special closed events with Drift,damn i don't even remember Most Wanted having drift events and that's by far the favorite NFS by many people.If Ghost focused on the grip physics and let Drift happen for specific events or drop it all together the game would be better for it,it would be controversial but it's better than the mediocre two systems we have right now.Focus on making one great system instead of 2 mediocre ones.

To be honest,it's easier to hire the people who made the Driver San Fransisco physics engine,those devs knew the perfect balance,arcade but not too heavy,not too light and good enough for casuals and simracers.
 
I would take a remastered version of Most Wanted 2012 over most of their last releases. That said, Rivals was decent fun, 2015 was more enjoyable than I expected with the corny FMV acting and dialogue, and I have hardly played Payback despite having access to it forever now due to the EA Access Vault.

Edit - I forgot to say, I loved loved loved both Shift games. I would take a remaster of those or a new one!
 
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I don’t think B2D physics is a bad idea but it is bad at Ghost implementation. The whole physics lacks consistency and often doing things that you least expect it, it was bad in NFS 2015 and improved in Payback and I do hope it gets better in 2019.
 
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Myself I'm too old to use a controller the way it should be used so I didn't buy Payback until this week when I found out it updated for wheel use Logitech PS4. I would like to be able to map wheel, try hitting the square button for e brake while turning or try hitting nitro button while racing you'll hit pause or any button but nitro. I'd also like to see what's behind me (no rearview mirror) that I've found.
 
Personally, I find the brake-to-enter-drift-mode physics a big turn off and it’s one of the main reasons I haven’t bought the last few NFS games.

I think these days the competition on an authentic, challenging/rewarding driving experience has a lot of contenders with franchises the likes of like AC, GT Sport, Forza, PCars ticking that ‘race a multitude of cars on a multitude of race tracks with realistic physics (varies to an extent game-by-game) with possibly some varied weather conditions/day-night cycles.’

Key areas I can think that NFS can differentiate itself though against those games is:
1. Having a deep, engaging police pursuit system.
2. Having large amounts of customisation/car culture type of stuff.
3. Having some sort of interesting story.
4. Fun/great looking/well designed non-racetrack environments to race along.

I think an NFS game would be all the more better for having the above things, but also having a deeper physics model than that stupid brake-to-drift style of thing. I think there’s bound to be a lot of guys out there probably like myself that wish they could pick up a game that had an epic police pursuit system along awesome environments in their meticulously modified cars, with not necessarily assetto corsa-level physics, but maybe physics more akin to a forza horizon/FM or a GT game.

For me, that’d pretty much be an insta-buy.
 
wolfsburgraz
I would take a remastered version of Most Wanted 2012 over most of their last releases. That said, Rivals was decent fun, 2015 was more enjoyable than I expected with the corny FMV acting and dialogue, and I have hardly played Payback despite having access to it forever now due to the EA Access Vault.

Edit - I forgot to say, I loved loved loved both Shift games. I would take a remaster of those or a new one!
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I agree. Slightly mad studios made the shift series though. I believe Ian from sms said they may go in the shift direction with project cars 3.
 

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