NeverGiveUp Garage: 530pp Seasonal - Ferrari GTO '84

Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by Lionheart2113, Feb 4, 2014.

  1. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    Last edited: Feb 14, 2015
  2. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    Last edited: Mar 19, 2016
  3. Thorin Cain

    Thorin Cain Premium

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    Hey Lionheart. Had to stop by and say how brilliant an Idea this is for a garage.:tup:

    You've obviously put a great deal of thought and effort into it and it looks great. It's an excellent concept and very well put together, I really like the format. I think it'll be a huge help to new players starting the game and for those who are struggling to get golds they're after. I might even be tempted to go back and get that elusive Veyron gold with some of your pointers;)

    I had a query by PM from someone looking for some pointers and suggestions for completing the Special Races and couldn't find this thread to send them a link, I couldn't remember the thread name until I saw your signature pop up. As soon as I saw it I remembered the name that went with that OP picture.

    Keep up the great work.:gtpflag:
     
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  4. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    Thanks Thorin, much appreciated. This garage idea has taken me longer than expected, but like you said, the hope is to help those who are struggling and especially the new players. I can't wait to get through the walk through part and get on to my tuning guide, links, tests, and start putting down some tunes. I just wanted the physics to be sorted out by now (camber being the main item) and some sort of testing arena (like the 1mile test) to make an appearance.
    I'll be typing up the Goodwood Hillclimb events today, just finished a rough idea of how I wanted the format and links to work out. Loads still to come that's for sure. There will be a link to your garage coming shortly for the Expert A-spec challenge and the car I used as well.
     
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  5. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    Goodwood Hillclimb

    Series 1
    Driving Options (These settings are used for all tests unless otherwise noted)
    Driving Line: OFF
    Blind Spot Indicator: OFF
    Active Steering: OFF
    Traction Control: 0
    Active Stability Management (ASM): OFF
    Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS): 1
    Skid Recovery Force (SRF): LOCKED ON
    Controller Sensitivity: 5

    Special Mentions:
    Disqualified if more than 2 tires go off track or barrier collision.

    Reward(s):

    All Gold Completion:

    Light Car Company Rocket ,07

    Unlockables:
    Goodwood Hillclimb Series 2


    Mission 1-1
    Goodwood Hillclimb 1-1.jpg

    Car: A110 1600S '72
    Tire: Comfort/Soft (Locked)

    Winnings (in credits):
    Gold: 5,000
    Silver: 3,000
    Bronze: 1,000

    Target Times:
    Gold: 1:05.000
    Silver: 1:07.000
    Bronze: 1:11.000

    Tip: Tons of body roll, but enjoy the fact that this car is slow and won't kill you...those cars are yet to come!

    Mission 1-2
    Goodwood Hillclimb 1-2.jpg Car: X-BOW R '12
    Tire: Sports/Hard (Locked)

    Winnings (in credits):
    Gold: 5,000
    Silver: 3,000
    Bronze: 1,000

    Target Times:
    Gold: 53.000
    Silver: 55.000
    Bronze: 1:00.000

    Tip:


    Mission 1-3
    Goodwood Hillclimb 1-3.jpg Car: Dino 246 GT '71
    Tire: Sports/Hard (Locked)

    Winnings (in credits):
    Gold: 5,000
    Silver: 3,000
    Bronze: 1,000

    Target Times:
    Gold: 1:00.000
    Silver: 1:02.000
    Bronze: 1:05.000

    Tip:
     
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  6. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    Goodwood Hillclimb

    Series 2
    Driving Options (These settings are used for all tests unless otherwise noted)
    Driving Line: OFF
    Blind Spot Indicator: OFF
    Active Steering: OFF
    Traction Control: 0
    Active Stability Management (ASM): OFF
    Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS): 1
    Skid Recovery Force (SRF): LOCKED ON
    Controller Sensitivity: 5

    Special Mentions:
    Disqualified if more than 2 tires go off track or barrier collision.

    Reward(s):

    All Gold Completion:

    Plymouth XNR Ghia Roadster '60

    Unlockables:
    Goodwood Hillclimb Series 3


    Mission 2-1
    Goodwood Hillclimb 2-1.jpg

    Car: 507 '57
    Tire: Comfort/Soft (Locked)

    Winnings (in credits):
    Gold: 8,000
    Silver: 5,000
    Bronze: 2,000

    Target Times:
    Gold: 1:08.000
    Silver: 1:10.000
    Bronze: 1:14.000

    Tip:

    Mission 2-2
    Goodwood Hillclimb 2-2.jpg Car: Lotus Europa S.2 '68
    Tire: Comfort/Soft (Locked)

    Winnings (in credits):
    Gold: 8,000
    Silver: 5,000
    Bronze: 2,000

    Target Times:
    Gold: 1:09.000
    Silver: 1:11.000
    Bronze: 1:15.000

    Tip:


    Mission 2-3
    Goodwood Hillclimb 2-3.jpg Car: SLS AMG GT3 '11
    Tire: Racing/Hard (Locked)

    Winnings (in credits):
    Gold: 8,000
    Silver: 5,000
    Bronze: 2,000

    Target Times:
    Gold: 49.000
    Silver: 50.500
    Bronze: 54.000

    Tip: The first real test in a fast car. Mind your marks!!!
     
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  7. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    Goodwood Hillclimb

    Series 3
    Driving Options (These settings are used for all tests unless otherwise noted)
    Driving Line: OFF
    Blind Spot Indicator: OFF
    Active Steering: OFF
    Traction Control: 0
    Active Stability Management (ASM): OFF
    Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS): 1
    Skid Recovery Force (SRF): LOCKED ON
    Controller Sensitivity: 5

    Special Mentions:
    Disqualified if more than 2 tires go off track or barrier collision.

    Reward(s):

    All Gold Completion:

    Chevrolet Corvette StingRay Racer Concept '59

    Unlockables:
    Goodwood Hillclimb Series 4


    Mission 3-1
    Goodwood Hillclimb 3-1.jpg

    Car: quattro S1 Rally Car '86
    Tire: Racing/Hard (Locked)

    Winnings (in credits):
    Gold: 12,000
    Silver: 8,000
    Bronze: 4,000

    Target Times:
    Gold: 47.500
    Silver: 49.000
    Bronze: 53.000

    Tip:

    Mission 3-2
    Goodwood Hillclimb 3-2.jpg

    Car: One-77 '11
    Tire: Sports/Hard (Locked)

    Winnings (in credits):
    Gold: 12,000
    Silver: 8,000
    Bronze: 4,000

    Target Times:
    Gold: 51.000
    Silver: 53.000
    Bronze: 56.000

    Tip: This car can be hard to handle, but very fast and fun to drive once you get used to it. This car goes on my list for tuning!


    Mission 3-3
    Goodwood Hillclimb 3-3.jpg

    Car: GT40 Mark I '66
    Tire: Sports/Hard (Locked)

    Winnings (in credits):
    Gold: 12,000
    Silver: 8,000
    Bronze: 4,000

    Target Times:
    Gold: 54.500
    Silver: 56.000
    Bronze: 1:00.000

    Tip:
     
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  8. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    Goodwood Hillclimb

    Series 4
    Driving Options (These settings are used for all tests unless otherwise noted)
    Driving Line: OFF
    Blind Spot Indicator: OFF
    Active Steering: OFF
    Traction Control: 0
    Active Stability Management (ASM): OFF
    Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS): 1
    Skid Recovery Force (SRF): LOCKED ON
    Controller Sensitivity: 5

    Special Mentions:
    Disqualified if more than 2 tires go off track or barrier collision.

    Reward(s):

    All Gold Completion:

    Citeza V16T '94

    Unlockables:
    Goodwood Hillclimb Series 5


    Mission 4-1
    Goodwood Hillclimb 4-1.jpg

    Car: TZ3 Stradale '11
    Tire: Sports/Hard (Locked)

    Winnings (in credits):
    Gold: 20,000
    Silver: 10,000
    Bronze: 8,000

    Target Times:
    Gold: 52.500
    Silver: 54.000
    Bronze: 58.000

    Tip:

    Mission 4-2
    Goodwood Hillclimb 4-2.jpg

    Car: Countach LP400 '74
    Tire: Sports/Hard (Locked)

    Winnings (in credits):
    Gold: 20,000
    Silver: 10,000
    Bronze: 8,000

    Target Times:
    Gold: 53.000
    Silver: 55.000
    Bronze: 58.000

    Tip:


    Mission 4-3
    Goodwood Hillclimb 4-3.jpg

    Car: Stratos '73
    Tire: Comfort/Soft (Locked)

    Winnings (in credits):
    Gold: 20,000
    Silver: 10,000
    Bronze: 8,000

    Target Times:
    Gold: 1:02.000
    Silver: 1:04.000
    Bronze: 1:08.000

    Tip:
     
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  9. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    Goodwood Hillclimb

    Series 5
    Driving Options (These settings are used for all tests unless otherwise noted)
    Driving Line: OFF
    Blind Spot Indicator: OFF
    Active Steering: OFF
    Traction Control: 0
    Active Stability Management (ASM): OFF
    Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS): 1
    Skid Recovery Force (SRF): LOCKED ON
    Controller Sensitivity: 5

    Special Mentions:
    Disqualified if more than 2 tires go off track or barrier collision.

    Reward(s):

    All Gold Completion:

    GT by Citroen Road Car

    Unlockables:
    Nothing....just another letter of the same from Lord March.


    Mission 5-1
    Goodwood Hillclimb 5-1.jpg

    Car: GT-R NISMO GT3 N24 Schulze Motorsport '13
    Tire: Racing/Hard (Locked)

    Winnings (in credits):
    Gold: 40,000
    Silver: 20,000
    Bronze: 10,000

    Target Times:
    Gold: 48.000
    Silver: 49.500
    Bronze: 54.000

    Tip:

    Mission 5-2
    Goodwood Hillclimb 5-2.jpg

    Car: R18 TDI (Audi Sport Team Joest) '11
    Tire: Racing/Hard (Locked)

    Winnings (in credits):
    Gold: 40,000
    Silver: 20,000
    Bronze: 10,000

    Target Times:
    Gold: 43.800
    Silver: 45.000
    Bronze: 49.000

    Tip: Oh boy! If you find yourself struggling, turn up the TCS and maybe some other aids to help you control this guy....with the times getting lower and the cars getting faster, everyone knows what the final test in the series is going to be.


    Mission 5-3
    Goodwood Hillclimb 5-3.jpg

    Car: Red Bull X2010 Prototype
    Tire: Racing/Hard (Locked)

    Winnings (in credits):
    Gold: 40,000
    Silver: 20,000
    Bronze: 10,000

    Target Times:
    Gold: 31.000
    Silver: 33.000
    Bronze: 38.000

    Tip: You knew this was going to be the last one. What a friggin' nightmare! If you own a wheel....use it! If you are like me and stuck to using "old sweaty" then the only advice I can give you is practice and patience. Yes it's easy for me to say that now that I've completed it, but it took me a half hour to do so. Try to stay in the center of the track on all of your turns, as tempting as it is to cut corners....don't. Play it safe and get your marks down and be smooth. Shouting profanities at the TV is encouraged...if the kids aren't around!
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
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  10. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    Lunar Exploration

    Special Mentions: Barriers are out of bounds

    Lunar Mission 1
    Drive the LRV along the Apollo 15 expedition route

    Lunar Mission I.jpg
    Winnings (in credits):
    Gold: 15,000
    Silver: 10,000
    Bronze: 5,000

    Target Times:
    Gold: 3:30.000
    Silver: 3:45.000
    Bronze: 4:20.000

    Tip: This test was frustrating on a whole new level. With the red barriers on the side being OB and the overall pace of the LRV, you find yourself rocking forward trying to will it to go faster. Add in that if you hit the smallest pebble and roll over, your chances of gold are lost. When approaching a large hill its best to let off the throttle and crawl over the top, but I will admit hauling the mail at 14mph and trying to get the biggest jump is fun, you just never know what you are going to land on.

    Lunar Mission 2
    Race downhill in the low gravity lunar environment

    Lunar Mission II.jpg
    Winnings (in credits):
    Gold: 15,000
    Silver: 10,000
    Bronze: 5,000

    Target Times:
    Gold: 2:30.000
    Silver: 3:00.000
    Bronze: 3:20.000

    Tip: You are flying down the hill at 16mph (if you're lucky) and yet you need to slow down?! Doesn't seem right, but there is the need to let off the throttle or turn the wheels hard to scrub off some speed. Trial and error with this test.

    Lunar Mission 3
    Knock over 30 cones on the lunar oval

    Lunar Mission III.jpg
    Winnings (in credits):
    Gold: 15,000
    Silver: 10,000
    Bronze: 5,000

    Target Times:
    Gold: 1:32.000
    Silver: 1:35.000
    Bronze: 2:00.000

    Tip: You don't need to knock over the cones, you just need to make contact. And as the picture shows, you don't even need to be the one making contact, you can use cones to knock into other cones. That is the key to this challenge, getting lucky and using cones to hit others while choosing a good line to take out as many as you can with the LRV and praying that some fly off into more cones.
     
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  11. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    Seasonal (A Spec)
    June 12-26, 2014

    Intermediate Class Non-Racing Car Challenge

    Track: Willow Springs International Raceway: Big Willow
    PP: 550 or less
    Tires: Sports/Soft or less
    Laps: 5
    Restriction(s): Normal Car

    Winnings (in credits):
    Gold: 85,000
    Silver: 51,000
    Bronze: 42,500

    Car Used: Audi R8 4.2 FSI R Tronic '07
    Willow Springs International Raceway_ Big Willow.jpg Willow Springs International Raceway_ Big Willow_1.jpg
    This grip machine was tuned by @praiano63. And when he says that this car is one of the top 5 road cars in this PP range, being one of the great gurus, you take notice!

    Tips: With this track and its lack of overall grip, I knew I wanted a 4WD for traction, and I was not disappointed with this tune. It was such a joy to drive knowing I can cruise or give it the beans and be more than capable of controlling the car with ease. Just sit back and enjoy the ride taking in the scenery of this track.
     
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  12. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    AI cars acting differently in online races?

    I was running the Intermediate Class Non-Racing Car Challenge today and noticed that the AI cars were keeping up with me as they did in the Beginners Challenge. I was in an Audi R8 4.2 FSI R tronic '07 and was laying down some ok lap times. With this particular car and the ease of these first set of online a-spec races, there was no need to fly around the track like my hair was on fire. The leader was an LFA and was passed by me for the lead on lap 2. Like the beginners challenge, he stayed about 2-3 seconds behind me, and in some segments he gained on me even though my lap times were the same...give or take a few tenths. So I decided to put down a time trial lap and pulled away to a 4 second lead at the start of the last segment. When crossing the finish line, the LFA was still the same 4 seconds behind, even though I was giving it the beans.

    Alrighty then, here was my question....exactly how fast would the AI cars go to keep up with me?
    Well, thanks to no penalties and this being Big Willow, I decided to do a race using the shortcut and set some cheat lap times. The first race I crossed the finish line with a 24 second lead. Ok, so the AI won't set any track records trying to keep up with me.

    How much of a lead do I need before they stop chasing me so hard?
    After about 10 races using the same cars, the answer is between 4-5 seconds. If you can pull out to atleast a 5 second lead, you will notice that the AI will start falling back more and more each segment as expected. But anything around the 4 second mark, they will continue to be in your mirror ready to pounce. Is PD doing something different with the AI's to lose the "chasing the rabbit" feel? Only time will tell...
     
  13. Thorin Cain

    Thorin Cain Premium

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    You're very welcome Lionheart. I can't wait to see all that useful information in one place. It will be a great addition to the community:tup:

    Yeah the physics is a bit all over the place, I have been doing a lot of testing with it recently and the camber thing is driving me a bit barmy. But I don't think it's going to be changing anytime soon.

    Nice, I'll look forward to seeing that, I'm interested which one you went for but don't spoil the surprise. :D

    Hillclimb stuff looks good BTW!
     
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  14. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    I know it's not GT6 related, but I wanted to wish everyone a Happy Fathers Day! My kids got me a couple of notebooks, why??? Because they noticed my other ones were filled up (with GT6 notes of course) and "I'm going to need to keep the entertainment center cleaned or mom will be mad". I hope all the dads have a great day!
     
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  15. Thorin Cain

    Thorin Cain Premium

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    And a Happy Fathers Day to you too. I hope you have a great day:cheers:
     
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  16. Bowtie-muscle

    Bowtie-muscle

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    Happy Father's Day right back atcha. :cheers:
     
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  17. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    In my quest to build an extensive library and start a tuning guide, I decided that I was going to go through all of the parts available to install on the cars. The first step was choosing parts that everyone seemed to install even though they don't change any statistics of the car... ie clutch, flywheel, and drive shafts. In order to do this I needed a test setup that would not change.
    I know that using dpads, "X" throttle, square brake, and auto transmission is a shh-tupid setup, but there is atleast one advantage for my tests....shifting points. Since there is no drag strip or 1000m test track like GT5, I decided to go to Arcade Mode/Time Trial Special Stage Route X using the Audi R8 4.2 FSI R tronic '07. Since it's a rolling start (standing start can have variations for jumping off the line even with automatic transmission) and there is no wheel spin, all I have to do is hold down the X button and record the segment times at the 5,000m and 10,000m mark...seemed like a good idea. Especially since I recently injured my back and pressing the X button is about the extent of my racing abilities at the moment. So to test this theory and make sure things didn't change I ran quite a few runs in this newly acquired R8 using a Fully Custom Transmission and only changed the top speed from 199mph to 217mph. After several runs, I ended up with exactly the same times at those segments. Along the way I found a few things that you may or may not know.

    EDIT:
    Running in Time Trial mode does not count towards the mileage of the car, even if you complete a full lap.
    There is no engine wear when in Time Trial mode.
    There is no deterioration of the chassis when in Time Trial mode.

    From what I can tell, a dirty car makes no difference in performance.

    After I finished typing this, I went back to a few of the R8s that I tested yesterday only to find that they now have mileage.
    I will have to do some more testing on why the mileage magically appears...as of right now I'm going with the theory that it will appear after 1 day (real time) because I've done everything else pertaining to saves, number of changes, and swapping parts trying to recreate what I did to those cars yesterday and the new R8 shows 0.0 miles even though I've ran around 15 miles in it.

    All of these things are pretty well known here on GTP, and I know I've read it somewhere before, but I just wanted to test things for myself. The main things that most might not know is when you install/uninstall parts or completely exit out of the track, don't expect your findings to be the same the next time you take to the track.
    After running these consistent segment times, I exited out of the track and came back to find that my times were faster than before. So I kept restarting and kept getting the identical faster segment times. So that's ok I guess, a little concerning, but I'll just have to make sure my testing is all completed in one go without exiting the track...not the case.
    I installed the Twin-Plate Clutch Kit and ran a little quicker, which is expected because the whole point of the kit is to quicken the shifts, and with auto transmission, that is beneficial. More the case when I installed the Triple-Plate Clutch Kit, so I was proving that even though the parts don't alter the numbers of the car, it was improving the cars performance, as much as 4 tenths over the 10,000m, and this was just with a few up shifts! Can you imagine the perks of 100's of up and down shifts during the course of a race? The excitement was building....only to be knocked down when I uninstalled the part and ran another stock time. Guess what? It was different than the previous stock time by about a tenth of a second. How's this work then? I've already proved that as long as you don't leave the track, your times will be the same with this method?!
    I got it, everyone pretty much knows that you save setting up the transmission until last, especially dealing with power parts, maybe that was the problem. After more testing....nope, with these particular parts and re-installing the transmission after installing the clutch kits, I still ended up with different numbers. By all means try this for yourself and test this theory if you don't agree. And yes, be sure that your track settings and driving options are the same across the board when doing this.
    In conclusion....if you are like me and love "trying" to figure things out to the Nth degree, you might struggle with your findings when you exit the track or start installing parts. And to those who are using similar methods for setting up drag tunes and posting your fastest times, only to be getting beat a tenth or two of a second by Joe Schmo, exit out of the track and give it another go, you might just get a better result.
    As far as future testing goes, I'm not quite sure how to handle going forward from this, as always, I'm open to suggestions!
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2014
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  18. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    I decided to throw my test results into the camber debate. It seems that many people are on both sides of the fence, "Is camber broken...still?" Some tuners/testers are taking old setups that they have tried and tested with camber being "broken" (pre 1.09) and ran some tests now (post 1.09) trying to install camber. For most they see little results, although some claim that it is no longer broken and see huge results, but don't share or have the numbers to back it up. So, I took some advice and went with a simple test.
    I took a brand new Toyota GT86 '12 and kept it as plain as I could. I purchased the Fully custom suspension (so I could change TOE & camber) but left the other suspension settings exactly as the game has them, even the brakes. I stayed with the stock transmission, but bought the Customizable LSD, but again, left the game settings as they were.
    I took it to Twin Ring Motegi Super Speedway with this thought..."Easy track, no brakes needed, and should be able to get some consistency." I dropped the TOE and camber down to 0 on front and rear, installed Comfort Softs (being a lower pp level) and took to the track with these driving options...

    Grip Set to Real
    Driving Line: OFF
    Blind Spot Indicator: OFF
    Active Steering: OFF
    Traction Control: 0
    Active Stability Management (ASM): OFF
    Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS): 1
    Skid Recovery Force (SRF): OFF
    Controller Sensitivity: 5

    I also pushed the boat out and used the analog stick for steering, I figured it would give me better results being able to roll the stick over to the left as opposed to jabbing at the dpad, but still automatic transmission and "X" throttle. With TOE at 0 front/rear, the plan was to run 8-10 laps and test all the variables of camber in increments of .5. I would save the best lap replay and later go into data logger for viewing tire speeds to see if I could notice any changes. These are the results showing tire speed and car speed at these four points going through turns 3&4.
    Sections
    1.1-Mid Entry
    1.2-Center of Turn
    1.3-Early Exit
    1.4-Exit
    The reason for these points was due to them being easier to read on the data logger screen.
    image.jpg

    image.jpg

    image.jpg

    image.jpg

    image.jpg

    image.jpg

    Loads of numbers to most, including me, and for the most part I have a hard time reading them, so I decided to make this graph as well.
    image.jpg

    You guys should know me, I love my drawings and I've got a new box of Crayola's that I've been dying to try out! And with my lack of faith in the lap times it seems that the data logger has some issues as well....
    image.jpg
    Here is the fastest setup in data logger on its own...notice the wheel speed.^^


    image.jpg
    Here is the slowest setup in data logger on its own...again, notice the wheel speed.^^

    image.jpg
    Here they are together at the same time/location as they were individually....notice anything? According to this, my slow setup is now going 120mph with a rear wheel speed of only 77mph. Or did they switch the wheel speeds over to kph when I wasn't looking? I've tried this with a few different files with the same result. So not knowing the ins & outs of the data logger, I've kept them saved on my game in the hopes of using different stats to help explain my conclusion in the future if anyone cares to assist me in making heads or tails of what these numbers mean.

    These are my thoughts based on the scenario that I tested for. Yes, they may vary with different cars, tracks, TOE, stiffer suspension, LSD, tires, and even triple clutch, I understand that. But until we have more testers/tuners putting out new tunes with all sorts of combinations, we will all have to walk before we can run.
    Camber has never been a major adjustment in my eyes. If anything it was a tool used, along with toe, in order to get the car more comfortable. If your car is not 95% of how you want it to behave through the major suspension parts and you are looking at adjusting camber last, I'm sorry to say that Camber is not going to be your saving grace. Like GT5 I believe there will be sweet spots with these settings.

    Front Camber
    Increasing the value of front camber lets you drive the car into the corner further. It also seems more nimble/agile on it's feet. If you over adjust, and miss the "sweet spot", then you will be sliding the car more through the turn only to be pushing up the hill on exit.

    Rear Camber
    Rear camber is where it seems to be the hot topic. Some say that it adds more grip or stablizes the car, and that might be the correct way of putting it, but to me I would say it goes tight/stable. Most of the time the more rear camber you add, the slower the lap times get and it shows on the graph, sort of. Plus, it goes along with a lot of people's theory, which is great, because it can feel like it has sooo much grip thru the center of the turn. I put it down to the turn itself and how people take the turn. Notice how sometimes there was a dramatic drop in lap times even though rear camber was increased? I realized it was all about how I took turns 3&4. Since it went tight, I started to arc the car into the turn later than normal and go after the apex. But if I rode the white line, it would feel great...until I looked over at my speed...the tight condition killed it. But if I moved up 1/2 a lane, I was able to carry more of the entry speed through the corner, but it was still tight on exit and would push up off the preferred line. I was only able to do this because of the track I was on, most tracks do not allow you to "search" for that special line so you are forced to ride the apexes and this tightness will hurt your time even though it felt good. Kinda like Initial Torque on the LSD, the more you raise it, the better it feels, but kills your time, especially the chicanes. If you go over the "sweet spot" on this adjustment, you will find yourself pushing up the track and looking the wall straight in the eye.


    Conclusion:
    Front Camber - Increasing the value will help the car turn on corner entry. Too much and the car will begin to slide more through the turn changing your line and cause a tight condition on exit.

    Rear Camber - Tightens the car through most stages of the turn. Feels great on corner entry, but over adjust and you will have to slow down too much in the corner to counteract the understeer.

    As I've mentioned before, this is a pretty close minded test. I can't say how the brakes handled with increasing camber front or rear, how TOE effects camber, or how it handles turning right for that matter. I plan on learning and testing more cars and will hopefully find a systematic way of using camber. I will say that camber has noticeable changes for 1.09 but it all lies in the tuner/tester and their driving style.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2014
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  19. 332i

    332i (Banned)

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    What were your toe and diff settings during this test
     
  20. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    I kept the TOE @ 0.00 front/rear and I used the stock LSD settings @ 10/40/20 I think is what the game sets them to. I was trying to keep the test simple...as you can see, it quickly got out of hand.
     
  21. rams1de

    rams1de

    Messages:
    451
    I did a similar test at Indy and got the opposite result in lap times, however I agree with your conclusions about the feel of the car with camber.

    It was the Cobra Daytona Coupe AE on racing hards, btw. Here's some of the figures with zero toe which show the trend:

    0:0 54.244
    1:1 54.384
    2:2 54.524
    3:3 54.713
    4:4 54.612

    1:0 54.279
    2:0 54.305
    3:0 54.359
    4:0 54.406

    0:1 54.327
    0:2 54.458
    0:3 54.532
    0:4 54.666

    I had lots of other lap time records as I used smaller incremental steps up to 2:2 and also ran the camber settings with some toe settings. Seven variations for each camber setting but I lost them when trying to tidy up the formatting on this crappy iPad app I used.
     
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  22. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    Indy? Great choice in track!:tup: I will keep that one in mind when I jump in a car with higher pp. What pp was your cobra at? So yours is showing 0.0/0.0 camber as still being fastest? Wonder if it's track, car, tires, or any combination of the 3. I'm glad the feel of the car matches what I had. It's difficult for me to explain things when writing them out, so it was tough to describe what I thought the car was doing.
    I'm in the middle of TOE testing ranging from -.20 thru +.20 in jumps of .05 with 0.0/0.0 camber! Only 81 scenarios to test there, except this time I'm keeping better notes. Sucks that you lost your info. I do most of my drawings/pics on the computer then email them to the iPad. The excel program I got for this thing is re-donk-ulous!!
     
  23. Thorin Cain

    Thorin Cain Premium

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    Very well done Lionheart:tup:

    Nice amount of data to be digested there. I'm glad the new Crayola are working for you. Just need to fire that Australian photographer you've got working for you:lol:

    It's becoming pretty evident through these results and the ones @Bowtie-muscle posted in his Speed Shop that the camber is showing to be making improvements in certain areas of the corner and hindering us in others. But I find it more interesting to see that there are gains to be made through changing other settings now that camber seems to be doing it's job(Well as far as my understanding of how it's supposed to work at least.) Something Bowtie pointed to in his notes which made a lot of sense. And if I'm not mistaken has been said pretty much since the update by a few folks out there.

    I have noticed on quite a few cars that introducing camber to a pre 1.09 0/0 set-up and finding the balance with it, points to another change or two which can help improve the tune further. And I think that this will always be determined by driving style and course selection more than any other factor. It's all about how the car feels to the driver for me, And better lap times usually follow a more comfortable driver using a good car, than an uncomfortable driver using a great car.

    Anyway, Great Job:gtpflag:
     
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  24. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    Are my pics upside down again?
    Edit:
    They always show right side up until I go into edit/more options/ then look at the attached files. Stupid iPad or operator. Should be ok now....right?
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2014
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  25. rams1de

    rams1de

    Messages:
    451
    I picked Indy because there's less banking than Daytona and I would have to lift at Motegi. Pp is 541, but the tyres came with the car so I just left them on. When I ran a few scouting laps in the stock set up, I had to be careful not run wide into the barrier and with the front tyres lighting up I figured they must be near enough to the limit for the test to have some value.

    I can't tell you how gutted I was at losing the info. Not so much for the info itself but I have a load of replays saved and the times were the only real way I had of telling one from the other.

    The fastest time I had was .5 front, 0 rear with toe. Rear toe was .25 and can't remember if front toe was .10 or -.10. I got some confounding results with positive and negative toe. With some camber settings negative was faster than positive but in other instances the opposite was the case. There was no consistent trend like with zero toe.

    My toe settings were arbitrary really, I just applied something I knew I would feel and kept the same toe settings for each camber set up.
     
  26. Thorin Cain

    Thorin Cain Premium

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    Yup, just the data logger ones. Either that or I'm doing handstands and it's all the others.:p
     
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  27. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    Location:
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    FITT Viper Strike Challenge

    Contest Rules

    Results

    This tune was made just for this challenge at Trial Mountain. I have no clue how it will handle at other tracks. I'm guessing not so well.
    image.jpg
    image.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2014
  28. biffa3

    biffa3

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    It was good enough for the Ascari and Willow Springs challenges in Super, just have to lengthen final gear a tad.
     
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  29. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    Wow really?:eek: That's good news, thanks for that! :cheers:
     
  30. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

    Messages:
    1,485
    Location:
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    I've decided to throw my hat into the ring and post a car that has been tuned by lots of people including some of the best. I love the look of this car. I hadn't seen too many in real life until I spent my time(s) in China, now I'm seeing them everywhere. This car is primarily created to battle amongst the 450-550pp that you will encounter in the National B races and a select few in National A. Also a great contender for the beginner seasonals.

    Driving Options
    Driving Line: OFF
    Blind Spot Indicator: OFF
    Active Steering: OFF
    Traction Control: 0
    Active Stability Management (ASM): OFF
    Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS): 1
    Skid Recovery Force (SRF): OFF
    Controller Sensitivity: 5
    Grip Set to Real

    DS3 (dpads)
    "X" throttle
    Square brake
    Automatic Transmission

    Track: Grand Valley Speedway
    Note: Though tuned for Comfort/Softs, it does pretty good on Sports/Hard.
    image.jpg
    image.jpg

    Different Transmission Setups
    image.jpg
     
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