*** New Corvette Z06 ***

[TheCracker]

Alright then thanks. So anyone who questions the new Vette's track preformance can just look at the Le Mans results.

and the C6R is related to the C6/ZO6 by the fact that it shares the same basic engine block, windscreen glass and tail lights - probably no more than that.

DOnt worry about jerkoffs like that. America gets no respect right now from europe. I was on a top gear forum trying to defend the Corvette and racing history and very big members there were telling me the corvette sucked and that the only american car with any type of successfull racing history was the GT40.. They just ignore LM and all the other races american cars have won and comepeted well in. I wish we had an admin to just delete ignorant comments.

I'm sorry but american cars just don't work on typical european roads. 5th Gear (another british motoring TV show) tested the latest viper and C6 vette the other week and they just didn't rate them, not because they hate american cars, but because they just arn't set up to work well on anything other than a billiard table smooth road. When taken on a track the cars were a handful trying to get the power down out of the corners - the road testers were a former F1 & Sportscar driver and a former BTCC Champion so they know what they are talking about.

Top Gear always enjoy driving american cars, two of the three presenters own american cars - a 70' Charger and a Ford GT, but they still don't rate them compared to the european counterparts especially when it comes down to interior quality - even in a Cadillac. Its not because Jem Clarkson hates Americans, he hates Germans, French and Italians even more - just watch the shows.

Trouble with US car mags, apart from the US motor industry bias, is that they are obsessed with figures. HP, torque, qtr miles, top speed, lateral G's, cost etc etc. these figures mean very little in reality, and shouldn't be the be-all-and-end-all of how to rate a car.

Also, you have to remember that your 'imports' like Porsches etc are always going to be expensive compared to Vettes because of the costs of importing them from Germany and also the poor state of the Dollar compared to the Euro. Vettes when imported to europe are still relatively cheap, but the gap is much closer.

Its cool to hate america now.

No, its always been cool

 

[///M-Spec]

My question: I didn't know about the leaf spring suspensions. Why did they go with leaf springs? Any paticular reason?

There are a few advantages with this arrangement.

1- Weight. The C6's leaf springs are made of fiberglass composite, which is much lighter than an equivalant pair of steel coil springs. And as everyone knows, the less mass in a suspension, the better.

2- Durability. Coil springs fail slowly over time. The Corvette's leaf springs simply last longer.

3- Packaging. The leaf spring is lower and doesn't intrude upwards into the body such that a set of coil springs would. I would imagine it also gives the designers more flexibility in shock and A-arm placement.

The disadvantages:

1- Cost. Apparently this stuff is pretty expensive, given that most other cars in the world run on coils and while many trucks still use steel leaf springs, the supply chain for the Corvette's composite is much more limited.

2- Range of control. The leaf has a limited ability to be manufactuered with a variable rate and with long travel.

That's all I can think of. Maybe a Vette owner can chime in with more.

Trouble with US car mags, apart from the US motor industry bias, is that they are obsessed with figures. HP, torque, qtr miles, top speed, lateral G's, cost etc etc. these figures mean very little in reality, and shouldn't be the be-all-and-end-all of how to rate a car.

I think that statement has some merit, but is an exaggeration. I read both American and European (well, okay, British) publications, and while US publications usually devote more column inches toward publishing stats, they almost never base their review entirely on them.

US magazines also reflect the sensibilities of their readers. Fact is, most Americans, when it comes to judging cars, are factual and results oriented people. Opinions are fine, but they are always colored by each person's priorities and point of view. You can argue all day over what car you like and what car you don't. And here, we usually do.

Cold, hard data is indisputable.

Personally, I think a balance between the two philosophies is more important than picking one extreme or the other. I'd much rather look at the data and make up my own mind than to have some chump like Clarkson tell me what to think about a car. However, I bought my own current car largely based on my needs and point of view rather than cold, hard data.


M

 

[Gabkicks]

and the C6R is related to the C6/ZO6 by the fact that it shares the same basic engine block, windscreen glass and tail lights - probably no more than that.

I'm sorry but american cars just don't work on typical european roads. much closer.

No, its always been cool

I live in an area with very twisty, hilly, and sometimes bumpy roads and the car works fine on them. Have you ever driven a corvette?

 

[TheCracker]

Yes i have, it was an early 80's model (C4? - same body shape as the ZR-1), and although it sounded great and was fun in a all-acceleration-and-wheelspin kind of way it wasn't a patch on a similar aged 928, an older mid 80's 911 or a late 60's Elan+2 all of which i'd drove on the same roads in the same year or so.

Trouble is almost all Vettes sold in Europe have probably been 'grey' or personal imports so still have their 'domestic' set-up. I would bet that all European cars sold in America have been set-up (modified) for American tastes and roads. For example, as i've mentioned in an other thread ages ago when the Nissan 350Z first came out, Evo magazine tested an imported 'american' version and gave it 3 out of 5. When the 'domesticated' UK version arrived it was given 4.5 or 5 out of 5 (can't remember which) - it does make a big difference.

 

[Pebb]

I see if I can get photos of the V8.

 

[skicrush]

and the C6R is related to the C6/ZO6 by the fact that it shares the same basic engine block, windscreen glass and tail lights - probably no more than that.

I hate to shock you, but the C6R was developed in conjunction with the Z06 for a real reason--they actually share a lot of parts. Rules force the C6R to use the same STEEL frame as the base C6--the Z06 actually has a LIGHTER Al frame than the race car. The cam in the C6R is obviously a LOT different--they don't have to care as much as the Z06 about getting good mileage. They use coil springs in the C6R because they are easier to adjust and switch out, but the composite leaf springs the road cars (C6 and Z06) use are better for everyday use. They give better control than a coil spring (to maintain optimum camber throughout compression and avoid changing the toe angles), and it is easier to control the variable spring rate as the suspension compresses. From a technological POV, they are actually more advanced than coil springs--people just think "leaf" and they thing of truck leaf springs. Just ignorant, pretty much.

I really think that Europeans built vehicles are superior, though. Their engines are more efficient, more reliable (just look at the recent lemans results to see which cars lasted the longest), and they are more mindful of gas mileage as they develop their cars because petrol is more expensive over there. And EVERYONE knows that all our big displacement american engines get lousy gas mileage--that's why they have the intelligent formula of taxing vehicles based on the engine size, instead of actual mileage achieved like the dumb american gov't does. And they're obviously higher quality, because they all cost more than equivalent american cars.

 

[TheCracker]

I hate to shock you, but the C6R was developed in conjunction with the Z06 for a real reason--they actually share a lot of parts. Rules force the C6R to use the same STEEL frame as the base C6--the Z06 actually has a LIGHTER Al frame than the race car. The cam in the C6R is obviously a LOT different--they don't have to care as much as the Z06 about getting good mileage. They use coil springs in the C6R because they are easier to adjust and switch out, but the c

They only thing that shocks me is that you think that sharing the engine block, windscreen, rear lights and steel frame ie the metal around the door and window frames makes the C6R and ZO6 the same car!

 

[skicrush]

They only thing that shocks me is that you think that sharing the engine block, windscreen, rear lights and steel frame ie the metal around the door and window frames makes the C6R and ZO6 the same car!

Well, the only time the word "same" even appears in my post is to identify the steel frame from the C6 as the SAME one the C6R uses. Nor does the tone suggest that I think they are the "same." And by golly, the rest of my post that you didn't finish quoting continues by outlining differences between the 2 cars. Similarities, but not things that are the same. They do use a good amount of components that are the SAME, or similar setups (like the suspension, engine design, etc.). But the C6R is OBVIOUSLY a different car. Look at that HUGE WING! THEY'RE DIFFERENT!!

 

[TheCracker]

Well, the only time the word "same" even appears in my post is to identify the steel frame from the C6 as the SAME one the C6R uses. Nor does the tone suggest that I think they are the "same." And by golly, the rest of my post that you didn't finish quoting continues by outlining differences between the 2 cars. Similarities, but not things that are the same. They do use a good amount of components that are the SAME, or similar setups (like the suspension, engine design, etc.). But the C6R is OBVIOUSLY a different car. Look at that HUGE WING! THEY'RE DIFFERENT!!

I know this - but this is all that i originally stated:

and the C6R is related to the C6/ZO6 by the fact that it shares the same basic engine block, windscreen glass and tail lights - probably no more than that.

You seemed to be disagreeing with me with your original reply - yet agree with me in your second ?

 

[skicrush]

I know this - but this is all that i originally stated:

You seemed to be disagreeing with me with your original reply - yet agree with me in your second ?

Well, there a lot more similarities than you seemed to give them credit for--it's not just the glass, tail lights, and frame. The suspension is similar, etc, as I outlined above. And to be terribly honest, most of the other cars are the same way. The DB9 and DB9R, the 550s and 575s, the viper--they all share more than just glass and frames. The engines and suspensions are usually fairly similar, just tuned differently. And the reason is that the rules require a fair amount of homologation (sp?). The difference is that the new Z06 was developed at the same time as the new race car, so they could push some of the homologation rules by editing what they were going to offer on the road car. I think the point is that the Z06 has benefitted quite a bit by this fortunate turn of events, more than the Aston, for example, which developed the race car AFTER they had already designed and produced the road car. Does that line of reasoning make sense?

 

[iceburns288]

Alright then thanks. So anyone who questions the new Vette's track preformance can just look at the Le Mans results.

Yes with all this disagreement about this I must remind you all that:

A 550 or 575 will kill any C5. Even a Z06. Yet the C5Rs were very competitive on the track and would frequently win.
An MC12 will kill a DB9. However the DBR9 is competitive with the MC12.
A 996 (or even 997) will lose to a 360 easily. Yet the 996 Cup cars always gave the Ferraris a hard time.

 

[TheCracker]

Well, there a lot more similarities than you seemed to give them credit for--it's not just the glass, tail lights, and frame. The suspension is similar, etc, as I outlined above. And to be terribly honest, most of the other cars are the same way. The DB9 and DB9R, the 550s and 575s, the viper--they all share more than just glass and frames. The engines and suspensions are usually fairly similar, just tuned differently. And the reason is that the rules require a fair amount of homologation (sp?). The difference is that the new Z06 was developed at the same time as the new race car, so they could push some of the homologation rules by editing what they were going to offer on the road car. I think the point is that the Z06 has benefitted quite a bit by this fortunate turn of events, more than the Aston, for example, which developed the race car AFTER they had already designed and produced the road car. Does that line of reasoning make sense?

Yes they are similar but very loosely similar - none of the GT1 cars have much to do with their equiverlent road versions, so you can hardly say that a Z06 is going to be a reliable car just because the C6R won its Le Mans class. I love you to show me what else the 2 cars share apart from what i've mentioned above.

 

[///M-Spec]

They give better control than a coil spring (to maintain optimum camber throughout compression and avoid changing the toe angles), and it is easier to control the variable spring rate as the suspension compresses.

Are you sure about this? I've always understood that wheel geometry (camber and toe) is primarily controlled by the control arms, which in the Vette's case, the upper and lower A-arms locate the wheel. The exact method of roll resistance (coil vs. leaf spring) has little to do with the path a wheel takes through it's range of motion.

Upon reading about the Corvette's suspension the drawsbacks I see the most is that a semi-ridgid leaf has a hard time coping with long travel and being manufactuered with variable rates unlike a steel coil with does both very well.


M

 

[skicrush]

Yes with all this disagreement about this I must remind you all that:

A 550 or 575 will kill any C5. Even a Z06. Yet the C5Rs were very competitive on the track and would frequently win.
An MC12 will kill a DB9. However the DBR9 is competitive with the MC12.
A 996 (or even 997) will lose to a 360 easily. Yet the 996 Cup cars always gave the Ferraris a hard time.

I hate to be a stickler, but I don't agree with 2 of your 3 examples. Once the C5R teams got the bugs worked out, they won nearly every time. The stock MC12 road car is so close to race trim already that it would be fairly competitive on the track. In fact, I believe they are race cars with creature comforts added--not much more.

As for my disagreeing, the C6 ring time (which was pretty close to the C5 Z06 time, I think) was 10 seconds better than the 550 or 575, and the 360 and 996 have the same lap times, with the 996 seeming to get the edge. If anything, it makes you wonder why the MC12 is in the same class as the vettes.

[edit] Looks like I missed some stuff. M spec, I believe you've caught me being guilty of generalizing from the system down to a component. You are correct. Cracker, I don't really know what the point of arguing build quality and reliability is with these high performance sports cars, but I would really be surprised if the vette isn't MUCH lower maintenance and less expensive to maintain than cars with similar performance. I WOULD suggest that part of the reason the vettes won was that they didn't spend any time in the garage, and I WOULD say that is the result of their build quality and design, like the engine design being rather simple. And being as how the road cars use the same simple design (read LOW TECH or INFERIOR single cam, 2 valve), they will likewise be more reliable. There's just fewer moving parts to break. But more than that, I think most people realize that technology transfer from racing to street is a reality, and that most sports cars enjoy that benefit. By virtue of winning do the vettes enjoy that MORE than the cars they beat? Well, I think you can say without question that they WON because of their better reliability. Can you really say that a C6 or Z06 is better or more reliable than another car (say a DB9 for example)because the C6R is better than a DB9R? I think you're splitting hairs. I DO think I'm pretty safe saying the Z06 benefitted more from racing tech transfer than the DB9, since the DB9 was developed before Aston had a race pgm.

 

[Joey D]

and the C6R is related to the C6/ZO6 by the fact that it shares the same basic engine block, windscreen glass and tail lights - probably no more than that.

skicrush is right, they were developed together and as far as I know the cars are more similar then you would think. The Z06 and C6R do share the same body construction, there really isn't a frame on the Vette's. It's an intergrated body and it looks pretty cool with no body panles on it. Although I don't know a ton about the race car since I don't even think it was developed in Warren. I'm guessing it was made out in Mesa.

As for leaf springs, they do save quite a bit of weight but they cost a fortune to design and get them right. But the engineers wanted to save weight on the vette while they were designing it. Other then that I'm not 100% sure on why they did it. I can find out though.

As for Europeans, I don't think they know a damn thing about American cars. I live in Michigan, don't talk to be about bad roads. Come to Michigan and look at what I have to drive on day in and day out. I can't tell you how many pairs of shocks I've gone through on the Blazer. The Vette feels fine on Detriot roads, sure it's stiff and a bumpy ride but you paid for track performance, not comfort. Top Gear is a biased show, I honestly can't stand watching it at all. I've seen some of the episodes on the internet.

A 550 or 575 will kill any C5. Even a Z06. Yet the C5Rs were very competitive on the track and would frequently win.
An MC12 will kill a DB9. However the DBR9 is competitive with the MC12.
A 996 (or even 997) will lose to a 360 easily. Yet the 996 Cup cars always gave the Ferraris a hard time.

Ya well thats the C5, the C6 is very different.

 

[a6m5]

There are a few advantages with this arrangement.

1- Weight. The C6's leaf springs are made of fiberglass composite, which is much lighter than an equivalant pair of steel coil springs. And as everyone knows, the less mass in a suspension, the better.

2- Durability. Coil springs fail slowly over time. The Corvette's leaf springs simply last longer.

3- Packaging. The leaf spring is lower and doesn't intrude upwards into the body such that a set of coil springs would. I would imagine it also gives the designers more flexibility in shock and A-arm placement.

The disadvantages:

1- Cost. Apparently this stuff is pretty expensive, given that most other cars in the world run on coils and while many trucks still use steel leaf springs, the supply chain for the Corvette's composite is much more limited.

2- Range of control. The leaf has a limited ability to be manufactuered with a variable rate and with long travel.

That's all I can think of. Maybe a Vette owner can chime in with more.

Thanks, M-Spec. It's very interesting! One thing I really do like about Corvettes are its' light weight, so if the leaf springs will contribute to that, cool. 👍

 

[McLaren]

Ya well thats the C5, the C6 is very different.

Of course, but it won't be fair to put a 575M and a C6 together.
The 575M road cars are going to be done with.
A C6 against a 550 would be totally unfair as you are comparing a much older Ferrari against a brand new Corvette that is faster than most of the rest.
A 575M is also old, since Ferrari doesn't seem to want to build them anymore.

He's comparing them to a C5, because the cars are from the era and were bigger competitors than now.

Notice that the only Maranellos doing actually well in racing today are the ones in the FIA GT?

 

[TheCracker]

Cracker, I don't really know what the point of arguing build quality and reliability is with these high performance sports cars, but I would really be surprised if the vette isn't MUCH lower maintenance and less expensive to maintain than cars with similar performance. I WOULD suggest that part of the reason the vettes won was that they didn't spend any time in the garage, and I WOULD say that is the result of their build quality and design, like the engine design being rather simple. And being as how the road cars use the same simple design (read LOW TECH or INFERIOR single cam, 2 valve), they will likewise be more reliable. There's just fewer moving parts to break. But more than that, I think most people realize that technology transfer from racing to street is a reality, and that most sports cars enjoy that benefit. By virtue of winning do the vettes enjoy that MORE than the cars they beat? Well, I think you can say without question that they WON because of their better reliability. Can you really say that a C6 or Z06 is better or more reliable than another car (say a DB9 for example)because the C6R is better than a DB9R? I think you're splitting hairs. I DO think I'm pretty safe saying the Z06 benefitted more from racing tech transfer than the DB9, since the DB9 was developed before Aston had a race pgm.

I'm not arguing about build quality of any cars?!?!?

A road going Corvette will always be more reliable, cheaper and easier to maintain than a 575M, DB9 or a MC12. The Vette is built in much greater numbers and is designed to be as reliable as any other GM product. Ferraris, Maseratis and Astons are totally hand built and designed to be a well screwed together high-quality product (whether they are is a different matter) These maufactures, and their customers, don't care a vast amount about reliability or servicing costs (take a look at the short milage gap between servicing scheduals) and they are certainly not designed to be easily maintained (engines out to change belts/chains!).

The point i'm trying to make is that GT1 cars, although looking similar to their road going counterparts, actually have very little in common apart from the few things i pointed out. Manufactures make a huge deal out of their 'race bred' pedigree because its a good selling point, the fact is it's just marketing hype. There was a point when GT/Sportscars were based heavily on their road going versions - GT2 class cars still are, but GT1 class cars are almost 'silhouette specials' .

If you think otherwise than you are letting the marketing departments pull the wool over your eyes.

A road-going Mosler MT900 probably shares more components with a C6R than the Z06 does.

 

[Dave A]

As for Europeans, I don't think they know a damn thing about American cars. I live in Michigan, don't talk to be about bad roads. Come to Michigan and look at what I have to drive on day in and day out. I can't tell you how many pairs of shocks I've gone through on the Blazer. The Vette feels fine on Detriot roads, sure it's stiff and a bumpy ride but you paid for track performance, not comfort. Top Gear is a biased show, I honestly can't stand watching it at all. I've seen some of the episodes on the internet.

Careful, I know plenty about American cars, and I respect many them for variouse reaasons, I'm just less likely to choose one over say a TVR, Ferrari or Aston thats all (in fact I'd never choose one over a TVR or Aston), it's the reverse for a lot of Americans. I suppose because I've seen a lot of Americans bashing British and European cars with crap and flawed arguments Americans don't know a damn things about European cars then either. As for TopGear, it's not the most accurate sow on the lanet, but it combines fact with fun succesfuly. I wouldn't choose a car over another because of Jerremy's opinion of it but the show is good and at least you get an unbiased view of a cars track performance. I can't comment on the C6 vette, but having rode in a C5 I can say, they're **** compared to a Boxster even (and yes i've rode in one of thoes ). It's all about personal preference and what you're used to, like you don't like TopGear, I don't like reading American car mags, you're more inclined to buy an American sportscar, I'm more inclined to buy a British one, that doesn't mean that you have no idea about European cars and I would'nt ever generalise that Americans don't know **** about them either.

And if anyone wan't a good perfomance comparison for the new Z06, compare it to a Typhon when they're both out, should be a good test.

 

[RR]

I live in an area with very twisty, hilly, and sometimes bumpy roads and the car works fine on them. Have you ever driven a corvette?

That all very nice but a porsche would crap all over your vette on anyhting with corners.

 

[RR]

skicrush is right, they were developed together and as far as I know the cars are more similar then you would think. The Z06 and C6R do share the same body construction, there really isn't a frame on the Vette's. It's an intergrated body and it looks pretty cool with no body panles on it. Although I don't know a ton about the race car since I don't even think it was developed in Warren. I'm guessing it was made out in Mesa.

As for leaf springs, they do save quite a bit of weight but they cost a fortune to design and get them right. But the engineers wanted to save weight on the vette while they were designing it. Other then that I'm not 100% sure on why they did it. I can find out though.

As for Europeans, I don't think they know a damn thing about American cars. I live in Michigan, don't talk to be about bad roads. Come to Michigan and look at what I have to drive on day in and day out. I can't tell you how many pairs of shocks I've gone through on the Blazer. The Vette feels fine on Detriot roads, sure it's stiff and a bumpy ride but you paid for track performance, not comfort. Top Gear is a biased show, I honestly can't stand watching it at all. I've seen some of the episodes on the internet.




Ya well thats the C5, the C6 is very different.

You my friend are the biggest idiot I have heard talk for some time. Ive read the american magazine road and track and quite frankly they are biased like hell. Americans cant help but be biased they are fed by adverts every where and they get their opinions from the marketing industry. Americans will obviously get aroused so much by some stinking corvette just because of their over patriotic society. They always ahve there way and have the best stuff except when it comes to cars and they are not used to the fact that theyre cars stink.

So for all you little kids out there who see this corvette with 500 horses and think it will rule all are extremly naive. Just look at nurburing times. I can quarantee you that the Porsche Cayman S will beat the corvette c6 z06 around the nurburing.

And if someone was to say choose between the z06 and 911 turbo to race around a track you would obviously take the 911 even though it has 50 less horses knowing that around corners the 911 beats all.

 

[RR]

I won't get into this too deep, since you obviously are just being a troll, since you SO obvoiusly don't know what you're talking about.

Porsche 911 GT2: 477hp, 472 lb/ft torque. 3131 lbs. Tires 235/40/R18 front, 315/30/R18 rear. 0-60 in 4.0 seconds, 15mpg city, 22 mpg highway, 18.2 combined. $191,700.

Corvette Z06: 505hp, 475 lb/ft torque. 3130 lbs. Tires 275/35/R18 front, 325/30/R19 rear. 0-60 in 3.7 seconds, 16 mpg city, 25 mpg highway, 20.7 combined. $65,800.

It IS more expensive, if that makes you feel better?

Now look at the nurbring times and see which car is faster. Now do you feel better?

 

[RR]

Alright then thanks. So anyone who questions the new Vette's track preformance can just look at the Le Mans results.

So then the upcoming audi r9 aka lemans concept will blow the c6 out of the water. Just look at the lemas record. And Corvette wouldnt have won if the astons didnt have to both come in for repairs an hour before time. A bit of luck for the corvettes there I would say.

 

[RR]

You should really check your facts before you post stuff like this. Corvettes have always performed on par against Porsches not only in a straight line, but on a track as well. 911s often have a transitional advantage because of better shock tuning, while the Vette usually has better steady state grip, because of a lower cg and wider tires. 911s can sometimes leverage superior braking due to favorable weight distribution to help overcome their torque deficit, but not always.

Given that a 997 Carrera S is not only down 50hp compared to a BASE C6 Corvette but can't manage to translate it's admitted better handling qualities into REAL LIFE MEASURABLE lap times, I really have to wonder why people continue to delude themselves into thinking the Porsche is unquestionably superior, particularly at the price point.

I have no Z06 comparison test URLs handy, but there are plenty of recent 997 vs. C6 results.

911/997 Carrera vs. Corvette C6 Z51 (Car and Driver)

911/997 Carrera S vs. Corvette C6 Z51 (Road and Track)




So price no object, the C6 and 997 are near equals in performance.

Using a price equal comparision, a base C6 would utterly embarrass a base Boxster in terms of objective performance. Conversely, if you take the almost $40,000 premium Porsche wants for the Carrera S over a C6 Z51, you could mod the Vette to CRUSH the 911. Given the fact the $89,000 Carrera S could not outrun a regular C6, the Z06 should dominate one and save you ~$15,000 while doing it.

There are many SUBJECTIVE areas where I'd perfer the 911 over the Corvette. (not interior, though. People who complain the C5 had a cheap interior should sit in an early 996, which was abysmal given the price) But when push comes to shove and OBJECTIVE performance is all that matters, the Vette is no doubt comparable.


M

ahahahahah those magazine are sooooo biased. I wonder how much money chevy slipped them to right that seeing as they realy on good marketing to shift these bricks. Look at nurbring times or even the top gear times where you can see them test the cars. And whats grip. A evo has grip no1 cars if the vettes has grip.

Plus I could also take a evo and use the money I saved over the Z06 to mod it and crush the Z06. Nice argument mate.

 

[RR]

DOnt worry about jerkoffs like that. America gets no respect right now from europe. I was on a top gear forum trying to defend the Corvette and racing history and very big members there were telling me the corvette sucked and that the only american car with any type of successfull racing history was the GT40.. They just ignore LM and all the other races american cars have won and comepeted well in. I wish we had an admin to just delete ignorant comments.

Its cool to hate america now.


Strangely i live on a mountainous part of NJ and most of the sports cars here are corvettes from varying years. even a few New ZO6's. We also have lots.. and i mean Lots!! of Evo 8's and Subaru STi's and a few supras. I just moved up here about a year ago and i've never seen more sportscars clustered in one area in my life. Its good sightseeing, but at this pt i'm just jealous.

THe new ZO6 has an awsome sounding engine btw and looks very stable through the corners.

No1 likes americans because because of their hypocritical biased BS. Dont get me wrong as seperate people you guys are nice but has a nation your country could surely try and be more fair. Enjoy the oil you got from Iraq in your 7 litre vettes and when you push down the pedal to the mettel in your big engine cars all the thoughts of the dying and starving kids in the world will be forgotten. Westerners never like to talk about the crimes that got them rich yet they command other nations around. Enjoy your lives.

 

[TwinTurboJay]

ahahahahah those magazine are sooooo biased. I wonder how much money chevy slipped them to right that seeing as they realy on good marketing to shift these bricks..

The mags are definitely not biased, thats a pretty dumbassed thing to say. If you were ( and I doubt you are ) a long time reader of either magazine, you'll understand that both cheif editors of the magazines are completely against accepting money just to push a vehical. If a vehical is good, it gets praised. If its bad and or ugly, its will get rejected and the designer / manufacturer will be made fun of. Just because its an american magainze sure as hell doesn't mean they like american cars better ! Check out pretty much every sports car comparison test in the past 15 years in either magazine and you will see BMW's clearly favoured over american sport sedans. You will see porsches being picked over vettes. Know what you are talking about !

 

[RR]

The mags are definitely not biased, thats a pretty dumbassed thing to say. If you were ( and I doubt you are ) a long time reader of either magazine, you'll understand that both cheif editors of the magazines are completely against accepting money just to push a vehical. If a vehical is good, it gets praised. If its bad and or ugly, its will get rejected and the designer / manufacturer will be made fun of. Just because its an american magainze sure as hell doesn't mean they like american cars better ! Check out pretty much every sports car comparison test in the past 15 years in either magazine and you will see BMW's clearly favoured over american sport sedans. You will see porsches being picked over vettes. Know what you are talking about !

Just BMW? What about audi and mercedes. BMW are probably slipping them money their way aswell.

 

[TwinTurboJay]

actually audi last year had beat out the bimmers for sports sedan ( S4 over M3 & RS6 over M5 ) ( Car and Driver )

 

[///M-Spec]

ahahahahah those magazine are sooooo biased. I wonder how much money chevy slipped them to right that seeing as they realy on good marketing to shift these bricks. Look at nurbring times or even the top gear times where you can see them test the cars. And whats grip. A evo has grip no1 cars if the vettes has grip.

This line of thinking is so weak it barely merits a response. You don't hesitate to point to magazine data when it suits you, but make (very) lame attempts to discredit any magazine data that doesn't suit you.

Talk about being a biased hypocrite. If you think American magazines are open to biased thinking, yet European ones are not, you are the naive one.

The links I provided were there for one reason: data. I couldn't care less if you agree with their conclusions about which car they liked, but test data is not open to debate by your own admission.

Plus I could also take a evo and use the money I saved over the Z06 to mod it and crush the Z06. Nice argument mate.

It is an excellent argument, you're right. Corvettes offer better performance for the money compared to Porsches. I didn't say anything about Evos... why did you change the subject all of sudden?

Oh, that's right. In order to try to get everyone to forget you don't have a single worthwhile or intelligent argument in rebuke. I challenge you to stay on the topic. If you compare Corvettes to 911s, I expect you to follow through on the subject.


M

 

[Dave A]

At the end of the day, the upcoming Z06 is a capable car, it's not the fastest for the money but at the same time neither is a 911 or a Ferrari and people are allowed to love them without getting flamed. Personally I like Corvettes, I'd never own one short of it being given to me, but that doesn't mean it's a pile of crap or incapable, it just doesn't appeal to me as much as a Tuscan or the new XK8 and on top of that being left hand drive would be a ***** over here, you'd get a poor view and higher insurance. Even if the 911 is faster in every area, that doesn't mean the Vette can't have an appeal, which it does mainly to it's home audence. I can totally relate to that, I've seen Americans going on about how good the Vette is compared to a TVR, I've seen people saying how much the Hennessey 800tt would smoke a Speed 12 (and yes on both counts I jumped in and defended my preciouse TVR ). The Vette has obviousely done something right because in the US it has an amazing following, how can you look at that and call it a crap car.