New FFB WIP!! Forza 7 PC wheel impressions/settings guide UPDATED

Discussion in 'Forza Motorsport 7' started by Blue028, Sep 19, 2017.

  1. Blue028

    Blue028

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    In regards to Sim vs Normal steering I would also recomend using normal steering.

    There are a few different opinions on this so I'll give you mine, I feel that Sim steering was designed to remove all aids on the wheel, and normal steering has one aid when you use a wheel, weight transfer. On normal steering you cannot do really fast transitions or weight transfers because the game just won't let it happen, on simulation steering our inputs are fed directly to the physics. Wich means sim steering should be the go to setting when using a wheel but it's not, why? I think there is something wrong with the tyre physics, particularly when trying to countersteer a drift as it becomes overly difficult to recover without making the car violently transition in the oposing direction. Because normal steering puts a damper on rapid weight transfers it makes it feel more realistic with the trade off of not being able to comand rapid transitions anymore.

    I asked Aaron (T10Driver) about this over a private message and here is what he had to say;

    So to me it sounds like they are not allowed to talk about their 'forza magic' as it's part of their trade secret as to how the game performs so well on a controller. But there is definatley some of this magic still present on the wheel on normal steering (wich as I said earlier I beleive is to do with weight transfer) wich acts as compensation to the overly sensitive nature of the underlying physics.

    So in summary, use normal steering until the physics have been looked at by the team and changes have been made.

    Edit: I also uploaded a run down of the advanced settings to help better understand what each setting does
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2017
  2. Blue028

    Blue028

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  3. coxamad

    coxamad

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    Thanks for sharing these settings.
    Just a quick question: what's your settings in LOGITECH GAMING SOFTWARE (LGS)?
     
  4. Andy22

    Andy22

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    I also had a lot of frustration setting up my old wheel (fanatec 911 turbo S), i loved the wheel in FM2 and how i could feel the wheel/surface interaction. I remember clearly feeling when i would loose tire traction. So while FM7 seem to recognize the axis/buttons via custom wheel profile, the surface/wheel feeling was underwhelming and felt dead. It took me several hours of testing and research (still counting) to finally get a tip to use the Ps3 mode and logitech drivers, instead of the fanatec's. Its still not what i remember from FM2, but its usable now.
    On the upside trying the xbox one controller on PC, was really surprising how well they utilize the extra trigger motors and was the best racing controller feedback i have ever tested.
     
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  5. NLxAROSA

    NLxAROSA Premium

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    Hooked up the G27 for the first time with FM7. Heard a lot of bad stories about FFB being bad, but it took me 5-10 minutes to dial in a setting that's fairly decent (not perfect, but certainly not crap either). So far so good. :tup: Going to fiddle a bit more to see if I can improve it further, only negative point I see is it's very light around the center. But not too bad overall IMO. :tup:
     
  6. Bigbazz

    Bigbazz

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    I installed the demo this morning, playing with a G27 and finding it pretty rough if I'm honest. The first thing was the FFB I just couldn't get a good feeling for anything that was going on, making it hard to judge the car.. The other issue then is if you have the cockpit view on the steering wheel animation is not only delayed/lagging but it also locks out and stops moving at quite a low steering angle despite the wheel having a lot of actual range to go, this creates crazy confusion with what is going on because what you're seeing on screen is telling you "no more steering" when actually there is plenty more to go.

    There didnt seem to be an option to turn off the wheel in the cockpit view, the dashcam view is so close that you literally cannot see a damn thing and movements seem really exaggerated, with no way to be able to adjust the seat/fov settings. And then the driving physics, a whole lot of all or nothing makes the cars drive quite skittish, the Porsche and Nissan both super eagre to go into offthrottle and on throttle oversteer with very little feeling over the limit, really hard to predict how they are going to react.

    The game looks fantastic but I did have some odd performance issues with the occasional stutter and noticable fps drops, running a 1070 and I7 7700k.. I think I will probably pass on this one, unlike with usual PC titles these sort of issues rarely get sorted.
     
  7. HBR-Roadhog

    HBR-Roadhog

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    The actual game feels quite a bit better than the demo IMO
     
  8. NLxAROSA

    NLxAROSA Premium

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    +1

    This really is a case of a demo hurting sales IMO.
     
  9. Blue028

    Blue028

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    Figured ill just keep posting my wheel related videos in here, may be of some use

     
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  10. HBR-Roadhog

    HBR-Roadhog

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    I played with the settings just a little last night and liek the way my wheel feels a bit better than before. I am curious now if I can make it better still.

    Am not sure I really understand exactly what some of the settings do and if I should go higher or lower and what to look for when I make a change in order to tell if it is helping or not.
     
  11. Blue028

    Blue028

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    Vibration scale: controls the scale of haptic vibration
    FFB scale: controls the scale of combined trail feedback and dynamic forces
    Steering sensitivity: Adjusts the DOR with a soft lock (this setting does not function properly ATM)
    Steering linearity: Adjusts the linearity curve of the steering input, higher makes it more sensitive around center/less sensitive at full lock, lower values make it less sensitive around center/more sensitive at full lock. 50= linear
    FFB understeer: this scales the aligning torque from machanical trail, lower values increase its affect, higher values reduce its effects giving a higher feel for understeer (ffb drop off)
    FFB minimum force: scales the aligning torque from pneumatic trail (on my setup lower values increase the aligning force from pneumatic trail and higher values decrease it) default value gives unscaled pneumatic trail ffb data
    Damper scale: adjust the weight of the wheel
    Center spring scale: the spring is the force pulling the steering wheel toward center; that is to say gravity through caster, KPI and scrub radius. This force is overcome at speed through pneumatic and mechanical trail, the causes of align torque. It's an active force in Forza Motorsport 7 and at racing speed it's very minimal.

    Some extra info

    Mechanical trail: this is the distance the center of the wheel trails behind the steering axis and is the main cause of aligning torque

    Pneumatic trail: as the tyre deforms and stretches with speed the contact patch of the tyre trails behind the centre of the wheel and gives extra aligning torque
     
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  12. NLxAROSA

    NLxAROSA Premium

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    I settled on this for G27/PC. Fairly light, but detailed FFB. Little light around the center (but will perhaps get better with an update or is there some other way to set minimum input/deadzone removal?).

    All deadzones/ranges 0-100
    Vibration scale: 60
    FFB scale: 65
    Steering sens: 100
    Linearity: 50
    Understeer: 5
    Minimum force: 100
    Damper: 0
    Center spring: 0
     
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  13. Blue028

    Blue028

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    If you lower the min force it will increase the center force, adding a tinny amount of center spring has been reported to help too
     
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  14. HBR-Roadhog

    HBR-Roadhog

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    I'll play around with it, my biggest issue is with the descriptions that are used referring to trail to most people even those such as myself who do know a bit about cars and tuning still seems a bit vague as to how it effects the steering wheel while driving and under what conditions.
     
  15. Ialyrn

    Ialyrn

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    869
    Blue has another video where he goes into detail about the difference in pneumatic and mechanical trails, think it may have been linked earlier in this thread??
     
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  16. coxamad

    coxamad

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    Anyone still getting the issue with G920 in Windows with LGS installed where if turn a little to the left, the wheel goes completely to that side by itself?
     
  17. Dopplegagger

    Dopplegagger

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    I have to get caught up on the ongoing resolution for FFB wheels on PC. Up until 2 weeks ago, it didn't matter to me. Sigh... I have to read the thread at FM.net too. [Cries].

    I doubt I will add much, because there are people who are far more knowledgeable than I, but hopefully I can help.
     
  18. NLxAROSA

    NLxAROSA Premium

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    Lowering the min force (as opposed to maxing it) has a noticeable difference. :tup: Center spring doesn't seem to do anything for me (at least not with a minimal amount). Thanks for the tips! :tup:
     
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  19. Blue028

    Blue028

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    I show a diagram of steering geometry in my setting guide video and show what the two trails are. As for what effect it has on the car? Trail is simply the leverage the lateral force has on the steering, more trail=more leverage=more effort for the driver but should make the car self align itself better
     
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  20. thesynergy87

    thesynergy87

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    Anyone been able to get Forza 7 to pick up the T300RS GT? I have it in PS3 mode as it says its required, I've updated to the latest Win 10 driver and firmware. I've confirmed in control panel it shows up correctly as T300RS GT Edition. Forza 7 just doesn't let me do anything with the wheel though. I've tried hitting X, start, R2, paddles, but nothing is detected. I haven't actually went into a race, but I can see in input options it doesn't even register, and if I set the input device to T300RS GT and save, it still doesn't work. This is becoming a real pain this wheel. It doesn't even fit the hard points in my old Playseat, ughhh.
     
  21. thesynergy87

    thesynergy87

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    So I went a race for kicks and I can use the peddles, turn the wheel, but none of the buttons work, even if I do a custom mapping for shift up and down to be the paddle shifters. Looks like anything connected to the wheel itself just doesn't work, which is odd since the wheel is detected when turning, then again that may be more on the servo side. Any ideas?
     
  22. thesynergy87

    thesynergy87

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    Fixed it by playing with the PS4/PS3 toggle switch and plugging the wheel's USB in and out. All good. Now to download and load up GT Sport on the PS4 to make sure all is well there. So far so good, this wheel quality over the G920 more than makes up for it. Can't believe how precise I can be with gas and brake, especially with the mod that comes with these peddles.
     
  23. Dopplegagger

    Dopplegagger

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    For a while, I was still having a difficult time with the wheel. I had great difficulty catching slides in the game. I finally got around to adjusting the Minimum Force and the other setting that brings out the pneumatic and the mechanical trail effect. And it helps. It's far from perfect, but it gives me a little more communication about what the front tires are doing... Just a little. Other than that, and when I put a wheel on the rumble strips, the FFB isn't telling me much. But it's still better than any Forza before FM7.

    I do wonder if the helpful dev, that's interacting with the community over at FM.net will be able to get Forza to feel more like a PC racing sim. I have the feeling the data needed for road feel is probably not there. But that's just me being pessimistic.

    Will the manual shifting ever become as quick as I am? I feel a delayed reaction when I shift, in either Manual mode or Manual w/clutch mode.
     
  24. CSLACR

    CSLACR

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    Wrong one
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
  25. Blue028

    Blue028

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    He has acknowledged that there is little road feel and has stated he thinks he knows a better way to calculate those forces, just have to wait for an update which shouldn't be too far away I imagine. Its definitely better than any other forza that's for sure, but I still feel like something with the SAT is pretty off, I'll wait for the first updates to the FFB before I get really into that though.
     
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  26. Dopplegagger

    Dopplegagger

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    I think the game feels a little better since the update. It's strange because I didn't see any FFB improvements listed in the change log. Maybe its me, and just not giving the game much of a chance. Either way, I'm getting a tiny bit of detail when I'm at the tires grip limit. It's not that strong, but I do feel when not to push further. Anybody else felling this?
     
  27. Blue028

    Blue028

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    They made some tweaks to the FFB understeer setting wich makes it feel a bit better, they have now also updated all the descriptions of the advanced settings so they make more sense
     
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  28. ApparitionLOD

    ApparitionLOD

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    The default settings actually feel pretty good now after the update. I still turn the damping down all the way, though.
     
  29. GTsimms

    GTsimms

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    Thanks for the videos @Blue028 also looked at your youtube. I was having an issue with simulation steering and normal is better atm! I got the game on sale the other day. So, I was testing out and having a hard time coming from a title like Project CARS 2 with a wheel to FORZA 7. Copied below and adjusted from NLxAROSA.

    T150 on PC (TMCP 900/1080 deg, Gain 24-30, Con 100, Per 100, Spr 100, Damp 0) Driver: 2017_TTRS_6 & Firmware: 5
    Vibration scale: 0-4
    FFB scale: 100
    Steering sens: 100
    Linearity: 47-49 (47 my current and with 900/24 Gain)
    Understeer: 5
    Minimum force: 80
    Damper: 20
    Center spring: 25
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
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  30. GTsimms

    GTsimms

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    @Blue028 I think, that I have about tweaked everything out of this game now! It feels much better and with smoother input! Thanks for providing your settings to help out!
     
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