New Land Rover Defender

[Veinz]

I love the look of these things and definitely would consider one if Land Rovers weren’t known to be pieces of 🤬.

The fast lane car (youtube channel) got a base model and they have had nothing but problems.

 

[Frank McGank]

They should have done what Mercedes did with the G-wagon (and perhaps Suzuki with the Jimny) and make something that looks almost identical to the original model but make it so it isn't an absolute pig to drive on road (compared to more contemporary stuff) whilst keeping it's off-road abilities. But unlike the G-wagon, keep it as cheap as they possibly could. That way it wouldn't be treading on the Discovery's toes the way it currently does. A base 110 is only about £2.5k less than a base Discovery, which is the Discovery S. A Defender 110 S (the 'S' trim level looks to be similar for both - ie pretty basic) is actually more than a Discovery S. I just can't see the logic.

Like I said, a British Jeep Wrangler. Thoroughly modern and tractable (at least as much as something with front and rear live axles can be), but still... reasonably cheap and utilitarian. Ford is doing it even better with the new Bronco, with having everything from rubberised hose-down interiors up to the latest luxury goods as optional extras. JLR has made some boneheaded decisions as of late, but the way they massacred the Defender really takes the cake. The target market for the Defender isn’t “rich housewives who want to brag they could traverse subsaharan Africa”, it’s the people that are actually trying to do that. And what they need is rugged simplicity. All the tech makes it great off road, but you’d never want to be more than a few miles away from the dealership because there’s no way to fix it if one of the dozens of computer systems ***** itself.

I’m reminded of a story from 1972, during LR’s attempt to travel the whole distance of the pan-american highway with the then-new Range Rover. In Panama, there’s a place called the Darien Gap that is a dense jungle with no roads through it, forcing the crew to drive through dozens of miles of uncharted rainforest. At one point, they were floating the RR across a river when the raft capsized and dumped it in 8 feet of water. They pulled it out, and the only thing they had to do to get it going again was drain the interior, change the oil, pull the spark plugs, and replace the gasoline. Until Land Rover can build something like that again, the Defender is worthless.

 

[VXR]

It's been a complete flop, at least here. May well have had the same off road prowess as the old one (as they claimed) but it was about so much more than that.

Firstly it's ugly and looks nothing like a Defender (the styling cues are way too light) and secondly it's a too expensive for the target market which isn't the luxury one JLR seem to think it is. The Ineos Grenadier is what they should have made.

Maybe because of the lockdown they have appeared to struggle, but I see several a week on my commute through Exeter.

 

[Roo]

(and perhaps Suzuki with the Jimny)

I maintain that, given the Jimny is around the same size as the original SWB Series Land Rovers, LR should've done a rebadge deal with Suzuki and called it the Series 4. The waiting list would be measured in years.

 

[05XR8]

A new Baby Defender is on the cards for 2022, initially being offered with FWD with an AWD variant following shortly afterwards. Power will be sourced from a 1.5L Turbo 3-cylinder and prices are expected to start from £25,000 for a very basic, stripped out model.

I maintain that, given the Jimny is around the same size as the original SWB Series Land Rovers, LR should've done a rebadge deal with Suzuki and called it the Series 4. The waiting list would be measured in years.

Maybe someone will come out with a body kit that makes it look like the pics above. Hey, if Mitsuoka can make a retro Chevy, surely a JimRover is doable.

 

[HaydenFan69]

They just went the route GM did with the Blazer. And like the Blazer, it might’ve backfired.

You’ll probably be able to pick one up in 5 years for like $15-$20k. Though, like my Range Rover, not sure you’ll want a 5 year old Land Rover product, but if there is remotely an aftermarket for the Defender, would not be a bad buy.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Saw my first in-the-wild D110 today. It's more premium looking in person...but has LR seen what people are paying for real-deal Defenders? Isn't it apparent that's what the market wants? The new car doesn't even come close to the presence and cool factor of the real Defender.

 

[05XR8]

Just saw one of these at the shops(posted in another thread). https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/land-rover/110/perentie-badge Didn't realise they were so in-expensive. The soft tops don't have the creature comforts of the hard top, but someone could import one supercheap, for what the AUD is today.

 

[05XR8]

Ah, finally saw the new Defender at the same shops yesterday. Was wondering what it was from afar. Looked like an EV. Those silver boxes on the rear side windows, seem out of place.

This is one of those designs way ahead of how it fits in certain areas.

 

[FT-1]

Supercharged V8 Defender released with 518hp

 

[Keef]

Supercharged V8 Defender released with 518hp

Further proof than Land Rover is incapable of making a base model off-road version. I still have yet to see anybody besides The Fast Lane buy or try to buy a pure base model but when they tried to order one LR failed miserably. They don't exist. LR can't do it. This thing is an embarrassment to its heritage. It's a luxury barge and nothing more. Look what they've done to my boy!

 

[FT-1]

Further proof than Land Rover is incapable of making a base model off-road version. I still have yet to see anybody besides The Fast Lane buy or try to buy a pure base model but when they tried to order one LR failed miserably. They don't exist. LR can't do it. This thing is an embarrassment to its heritage. It's a luxury barge and nothing more. Look what they've done to my boy!

Perhaps the full-size Defender is moving further upmarket so that there is space for the smaller model that was announced November last year. I believe the Baby Defender is intended to be used as a commercial vehicle, hence the much lower price point.

 

[TheCracker]

Further proof than Land Rover is incapable of making a base model off-road version. I still have yet to see anybody besides The Fast Lane buy or try to buy a pure base model but when they tried to order one LR failed miserably. They don't exist. LR can't do it. This thing is an embarrassment to its heritage. It's a luxury barge and nothing more. Look what they've done to my boy!

JLR seem intent on treading on their own toes. They do it with the Discovery Sport and the RR Evoque and now they do it with the Discovery and the Defender. They price them very closely and then spec them the same too. The Defender's nearest rival is the Discovery, in every regard. Why not stagger them more so the base Defender is exactly that and very basic (and therefore cheaper - on paper at least).

 

[Keef]

Perhaps the full-size Defender is moving further upmarket so that there is space for the smaller model that was announced November last year. I believe the Baby Defender is intended to be used as a commercial vehicle, hence the much lower price point.

Fair point, but who the heck is going to buy a vehicle smaller than a Defender when the goal is to explore millions of square miles of the American West? It's not really possible to expedition with 1000 pounds of gear inside and on the roof of a vehicle smaller than a Toyota 4Runner. The price point isn't really my point here - my point is that they do allow you to order an off-road oriented Defender that only costs $55,000 which isn't much more than a TRD 4Runner (which sells as fast as they can make them in the US). Problem is, LR doesn't stock them. Anywhere. They don't exist. You can order it and wait three months for them to build it like TFL did but you can't actually show up and buy one.

Their strategy is the opposite of everyone else's. At Jeep, Toyota, Ford, etc, the most capable and desirable model is the most expensive one, and they're in stock. Read that carefully: The model everybody wants is in stock, at every dealership, all across the country. But Land Rover's strategy is that the competitor to all those models that everybody wants is the cheapest model, which makes a ton of sense when you think about it. You could have all that LR technology for the same price as a TRD Pro and suddenly it's a really excellent competitor and people are starting to consider the LR. So they show up to the LR dealership to check out the base model that everybody wants and...there aren't any. What's this, the cheapest model on the lot is $75,000? See ya.

The fact that LR doesn't actually offer the models that regular people want proves that they never intended to compete with mass-market off-roaders like the TRD Pro, Rubicon, Pro4X, Badlands, et al, a market which in North America sells as fast as they can make them. LR's full intention was to sell overpriced luxury SUVs to rich people who will never get them dirty. And their reputation continues to falter in North America because of it. LR and RR are high-society status symbols and nothing more.

@TheCracker LR's strategy works spectacularly in North America. Range Rovers especially are everywhere. I don't know their sales numbers but in downtowns and the nicer suburbs of America you'd think they sold like Corollas. They're just raking the money in on these things, it's sickening. Everybody hoped that because of LR's good fortune in the luxury market, they could afford to actually stock and sell that cheap Defender that everybody wishes was available. It's not available. The Defender has settled into LR's traditional American market just like all their other products.

 

[kikie]

It seems that this new luxury barge seems to be very capable and even better than the 2014 Defender. Is it as exciting with all the electronics and driving aids?





EDIT: little mistake on my part. It was not about what the new Defender is capable of but the fact that there is no basic Defender. I get it now.

 

[Veinz]

The cheapest new Defender I could find on autotrader is 74k CAD, 10k more than a TRD Pro 4Runner. Ouch.

 

[Keef]

The cheapest new Defender I could find on autotrader is 74k CAD, 10k more than a TRD Pro 4Runner. Ouch.

Precisely. And that thing is equipped with the comfort and convenience pack, metallic paint, black roof, and black badges...none of which are necessary and they combine to nearly $4,000 Canadian. That's on top of the S model package which is a step above the base model and has the 19 inch wheels instead of 18 inch steelies. It also includes none of the off-road options like the locking rear diff.

Edit: The LR Canada website doesn't let me spec the steel wheels. It only allows for the Defender S spec. In the US, the S model is a $3,300 USD premium over the actual base model. More proof that even in Canada, a place where you really might want a utilitarian off-road spec Defender, not only do they not exist, you can't even order one.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I can't help but feel like the Defender is going to face extremely stiff competition from the Bronco in the states. They have similar appeal, but the Bronco looks better (IMO), has a broader set of features, and is far more affordable. There's a Bronco for everyone, basically. The Defender will always have premiumness/exclusivity on it's side, but the Bronco seems to me like a more legitimate tribute to its nameplate.

I have to say though, where the hell is GM in this segment? The Blazer was an enormous mistake and missed opportunity.

 

[Keef]

I have to say though, where the hell is GM in this segment? The Blazer was an enormous mistake and missed opportunity.

They've got the ZR2 but that's about it. And I've seen a few of them around but I've seen way more Blazers unfortunately. ZR2s are a lot more popular in regions where you can actually use them, and they're nowhere near as popular as Raptors despite being considerably cheaper. Methinks the lack of power doesn't help although they are good trucks.

 

[Frank McGank]

Further proof than Land Rover is incapable of making a base model off-road version. I still have yet to see anybody besides The Fast Lane buy or try to buy a pure base model but when they tried to order one LR failed miserably. They don't exist. LR can't do it. This thing is an embarrassment to its heritage. It's a luxury barge and nothing more. Look what they've done to my boy!

If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it a thousand times: the rugged classic simplicity of the Jeep Wrangler combined the cheap deliberately modular utility of the F150, then wrapped in a Union Jack and powered by gritty warm brown beer is the solution~

It seems that this new luxury barge seems to be very capable and even better than the 2014 Defender. Is it as exciting with all the electronics and driving aids?





EDIT: little mistake on my part. It was not about what the new Defender is capable of but the fact that there is no basic Defender. I get it now.

Great. Wake me up when it can do this without needing to see a service bay 3 times a month:

Of particular highlight is the river crossing starting around 8:10

 

[Keef]

the rugged classic simplicity of the Jeep Wrangler combined the cheap deliberately modular utility of the F150, then wrapped in a Union Jack and powered by gritty warm brown beer is the solution~

So the Grenadier, then.

I can't wait until the Grenadier hits American shelves so people will stop talking about the Defender like it's either capable or competent. It is neither. It is a luxury wagon for country club members. The best Britain has to offer, lol. Perhaps it can drive "off-road" on the UK's sodden grass but that ain't proving much.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

So the Grenadier, then.

I can't wait until the Grenadier hits American shelves so people will stop talking about the Defender like it's either capable or competent. It is neither. It is a luxury wagon for country club members. The best Britain has to offer, lol. Perhaps it can drive "off-road" on the UK's sodden grass but that ain't proving much.

Is it strange to anyone else that a professional road cycling team and an off road vehicle, both being funded by the same company, have exactly the same name? 🤔

 

[Keef]

No lol, that's precisely why they named their first car the Grenadier. Branding is everything!

 

[Keef]

TFL has recovered their Defender and gone on an understandable rant concerning LR's rolling stock decisions.



Also, when I commented on the previous video begging them to swap out the Defender's rolling stock for something comparable to the Badlands and Rubicon - the wheels and tires on this thing are preventing its hardware from actually performing to its limits - they responded "stay tuned" so I think they're actually going to solve this truck's Achilles heal, hopefully allowing real tests of its hardware. Then we'll get a true comparison of independent air suspension and traction control vs. contemporary suspension and lockers vs. old-school live axles and lockers. We need to know which setup can wheel the hardest. I mean, we already know, but it's fun to watch.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Land Rover Defender 130

XL-Sized 2023 Land Rover Defender 130 Spied With V8 Engine And Quad Exhaust Pipes | Carscoops

The longer variant of the Land Rover Defender will be getting the supercharged 5.0-liter V8 afterall

www.carscoops.com

 

[Keef]

That's exactly what I would put on an off-road machine, a muffler and four exhaust tips at the lowest part of the longest overhang right where they'll get destroyed on any decent trail.

Or they could tuck it up tight inside the rear bumper for maximum departure angle like my old first-gen Sequoia. It's almost like Toyota considered that their family hauler might actually get dirty at some point.

Land Rover is dead. This car aligns directly with all the other things I've said in this thread about how Land Rover is only interested in selling toys to rich people these days and has exited the off-road market entirely. Expensive, unreliable, incapable, soft, luxurious. I don't see the point. Speaking of seeing, I literally saw one on the road in Dayton today, first one in months. They aren't selling because Land Rover didn't deliver what they promised unlike all of the competition.

Total flop.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Defender SVX

Land Rover Defender SVX Spied On Video Looking Rugged Near The Nurburgring

Watch the Land Rover Defender SVX in two- and four-door forms cruise near the Nurburgring.

www.motor1.com

 

[Keef]

"Looking rugged" lol. It's got like 19 inch wheels with mild all-terrain tires, the same category of tire Subaru puts on station wagons. And why the hell are they at the Ring again? Do they have a gnarly off-road proving grounds there or something?

Call me when LR is spied testing this thing in Moab with 35 inch MTs like Jeep and Bronco, the trucks that actually sell. Even the 10-year old 4Runner is more hardcore than this thing. Until then, LR is basically a minivan for soft rich people. The only car company more lost in the sauce than Land Rover is Mitsubishi.