New Polo thread: Honey, I shrunk the GTI - Post #79

[Azuremen]

Are they not part of the general public, though? Besides, they are/were still technically owners, so they may not agree with your second statement about them being in the shop too often.

Well, Philly and Brad both will agree they are in the shops too often. And finicky. I've talked to them about that. Crazy, I know.

Well, if you deal in solid absolutes all the time, I'm sorry. They could also have meant those owners that do end up hating their cars for the reasons I listed. Lord knows I've meet a good amount.

 

[McLaren]

To each his own, then. I agree they're not the most reliable cars, but I certainly won't agree that people will hate them after owning 1.

 

[YSSMAN]

The thing with people who buy Volkswagens is that you will get two separate results.

1) They love the car, despite the problems (will likely buy again)

2) They hate the car, because of the problems (may not buy again)

3) They hate the car, because of the problems (may buy again anyway, the "try another" mentality)

VW fans are some of the most hardcore fanbases out there in terms of ownership, and it doesn't matter what kind of expirience they've had with whatever model(s) they've owned. Its an accepted fact that they're unreliable... But it doesn't matter. Its the same story with Alfa Romeo owners, or even to some extent, Saab owners, etc.

Its more or less about the experience. Yeah, my car was in and out of the shop, but I was able to do a lot of the work myself as well. But when you like the look, the way it drives, the fuel mileage it gets... And most importantly, the "personality" of the car... Yeah, you're going to go back and buy another.

I'll be completely honest, I've reached a major dilemma between the Polo and the Fiesta. Even if the VW will be less-reliable, and maybe even less-efficient, its the whole appeal of the VW "personality" that makes me consider otherwise.

 

[Philly]

Built in Mexico? Has it occurred to them that there's a reason Americans consider VAG cars unreliable?

1st off, I hope you're referring to Volkswagens, not VAG.
2nd, even so, I think many Americans actually have no worries about Volkswagen reliability, and instead, are pretty fond of them.

My VW was built in Germany with the engine from Hungary. And it probably breaks more than the cars from Mexico.

Till they own one. And hate it because of the failing electronics. Plus there is the whole reputation of the New Beetle still. Rolling pile of fail.

Ask anyone that actually has owned a VW and they will have some story about it being in the shop far too soon/often.

I haven't had too many issues regarding electronics, but the car is in the shop a lot. I guess hating the car or not depends on your ability to put up with it.

Will I keep the car after graduation? Probably not. Being young, I figure I'll need something that won't be in the shop all the time. Would I buy one in the future? You bet.

Hasn't Philly's car been back a few times?

Many times.

Does he hate it, though?

Love it.

What it boils down to is how much of a factor reliability is when you're buying a car. Volkswagens are great cars, with a few exceptions. The GTI has a great transmission, a great engine, a great interior and fits together very well. It just breaks a lot. That is going to be a trade off that some can afford and others can't.

 

[EA11R]

My VW was built in Germany with the engine from Hungary. And it probably breaks more than the cars from Mexico.

Darn, there goes my explanation. I still love VW, despite unreliable, but I don't think I should feel that way about a German machine. Screw it, I seek Mk2 then. That way, I could say, "It's old. Did you expect more?"

But still, I can't imagine anything from Germany breaking any more often than it's cousin from Mexico. Maybe your car and engine resent one another?

 

[Azuremen]

Well, to me, there are two major VW fans. Sorority girls that love their Jetta, Bug, Passat, Golf that daddy got them, and the old school guys that have Mk2 and such Rabbits rusting in their yard that they make frakenVWs out of.

 

[homeforsummer]

It's actually genuinely weird hearing the reactions to VWs in the States. Here in Europe they have an absolutely bulletproof reputation. Things do go wrong with them (as customer satisfaction surveys will attest) but reputation-wise they're one of the strongest manufacturers, really only coming behind Lexus, Toyota and Honda from the impression I get. And VW owners seem to be fiercely loyal too.

There could be two other factors in this I guess too - one, our VWs are made in Germany, which although this seems to not be a charm for Philly's GTI, probably averages out as much better built and more reliability than the Mexican ones you get in the States.

The other factor is that a huge number of VWs sold over here are diesels. And VW diesels seem to go on forever. I've heard so many stories of cars with literally hundreds of thousands of miles on the clock, with some running into the half million and beyond (funnily enough, if you search "half million mile VW" in google, it's a US owner's Jetta that gets most hits). The VW diesels seem to sit all day long at 100mph without missing a beat.

 

[Philly]

But still, I can't imagine anything from Germany breaking any more often than it's cousin from Mexico. Maybe your car and engine resent one another?

The thing you are going to see is that a car from Mexico won't be as well screwed together in general. There will probably be more panel gaps and rattles and things, and maybe an overall feel of being less expensive. But I'd think that reliability has more to do with engine design. Who knows.

Well, to me, there are two major VW fans. Sorority girls that love their Jetta, Bug, Passat, Golf that daddy got them, and the old school guys that have Mk2 and such Rabbits rusting in their yard that they make frakenVWs out of.

So Brad and Foolkiller are sorority girls and I don't exist... Gee... Thanks

But I think you hit the nail on the head that there are two types of VW drivers being the girls who use it as a status symbol and then the guys who "throw the vee" at each other when passing.

It's actually genuinely weird hearing the reactions to VWs in the States. Here in Europe they have an absolutely bulletproof reputation. Things do go wrong with them (as customer satisfaction surveys will attest) but reputation-wise they're one of the strongest manufacturers, really only coming behind Lexus, Toyota and Honda from the impression I get. And VW owners seem to be fiercely loyal too.

In terms of loyalty and appearing as a good brand, I do think that VW generally does pretty well. Although that could just be in Seattle where the roads are ruled by VAG, ToMoCo, HoMoCo and Subaru.

There could be two other factors in this I guess too - one, our VWs are made in Germany, which although this seems to not be a charm for Philly's GTI, probably averages out as much better built and more reliability than the Mexican ones you get in the States.

The other factor is that a huge number of VWs sold over here are diesels. And VW diesels seem to go on forever. I've heard so many stories of cars with literally hundreds of thousands of miles on the clock, with some running into the half million and beyond (funnily enough, if you search "half million mile VW" in google, it's a US owner's Jetta that gets most hits). The VW diesels seem to sit all day long at 100mph without missing a beat.

Do you know how well the turbo'd FSI engines do over there in terms of reliability? I had always thought that the problems I had stemmed from the engine just being a turbo engine built with pretty low tolerances. And perhaps I should point out that most of engine the issues I've had generally stem from the engine drinking lots of oil, which could have to do with me driving just a little harder than mom and dad in most driving. And I've heard that VW found the problem causing this and have put a new part out that helps with the issue.

As for diesels, I think the oil-burning VWs generally tend to be more reliable. A look over at KBB will show that the old MKV Jetta TDIs got 4.6 out of 5 when it comes to reliability. Although the GTI also managed that same rating so who knows.

 

[Azuremen]

T
So Brad and Foolkiller are sorority girls and I don't exist... Gee... Thanks

But I think you hit the nail on the head that there are two types of VW drivers being the girls who use it as a status symbol and then the guys who "throw the vee" at each other when passing.

I was thinking this while I was eating out... noticed some spacey girls go climb in their Jetta and drive off. And I recall one girl complaining because her parents got her an A4 instead of a Jetta.

And then there is the guy I autocross with that has at least half a dozen old VWs laying around, and always has some random project going on.

But the overwhelming majority of VW owners here are girls that generally are clueless on cars. Much like the majority of Audi owners around here are douchey frat guys. They just seem to appeal to those people that want a status symbol, want to be a bit more "hip" and feel AWD is a requirement to survive in the snow often, but don't want a Subaru for previously mentioned reasons.

 

[homeforsummer]

Do you know how well the turbo'd FSI engines do over there in terms of reliability? I had always thought that the problems I had stemmed from the engine just being a turbo engine built with pretty low tolerances. And perhaps I should point out that most of engine the issues I've had generally stem from the engine drinking lots of oil, which could have to do with me driving just a little harder than mom and dad in most driving. And I've heard that VW found the problem causing this and have put a new part out that helps with the issue.

As for diesels, I think the oil-burning VWs generally tend to be more reliable. A look over at KBB will show that the old MKV Jetta TDIs got 4.6 out of 5 when it comes to reliability. Although the GTI also managed that same rating so who knows.

I actually don't have a clue how reliable the FSI engines are actually. The only models that UK magazines seem to bother testing are the sports versions of the hatchbacks - think Golf, SEAT Leon and Skoda Octavia - and virtually every other VAG product that gets any coverage is a diesel, short of stuff like the big V8 and V10 Audis. I haven't even heard that much about the 1.4 TSI twincharger engines.

I can't actually find any figures for VW's percentage of diesel sales in the UK, but if someone ran the figure 75% past me I wouldn't bat an eyelid. As a purely unscientific test, I went on ebay UK, selected Volkswagen and ticked the last five years of cars. 3,337 were diesel, 1,396 were petrol. The fact that petrol was even that high is probably down to the large number of Golf GTIs for sale.

 

[Jim Prower]

I dunno. Dad's a VW guy. Of course, he started with a Type 1 (Bug), and has owned a Mk. II. He also does most of the work on Mom's Mk. I Cabrio. Grandpa also owned quite a few VWs before switching to Hyundais and a Jeep Wrangler. He's a preacher. Neither of them seem the stereotype portrayed above.

Interesting note: the first VW diesels, those in the Mk I, were basically the Golf engine with a different head.

 

[YSSMAN]

They just seem to appeal to those people that want a status symbol, want to be a bit more "hip" and feel AWD is a requirement to survive in the snow often, but don't want a Subaru for previously mentioned reasons.

It always depends. A lot of kids around here (both male and female) get VWs for their first car because thats what a lot of people have anyway. I've yet to figure out why VW is so popular around here, despite the obvious strong domestic base. One of the first dealers to officially sell VW products in the US was here in Grand Rapids, but I can't imagine that being the only reason why we love them. Still, Subaru owners and VW owners (at least in my opinion) are very similar types of people. A bit stuck up, definitely a bit more "granola" than the rest of the folks. They're a bit more adventurous, prefer the outdoors, and actually use their vehicles to the fullest extent.

In general, VW people know what they're getting into and stick with it no matter what. My Grandmother had a rolling bucket of fail, a '99 New Beetle, and yet she went back and nabbed an '02 Cabrio because she wanted one of the last ones made. That one has been a solider, never complaining too much about anything.

 

[DaddyVDUB]

Well time to chime in here. My latest VW is a 2001 Wolfsburg Jetta 1.8 turbo. I purchased it new,it now has 87000 miles on it and I am glad to report it has been BULLETPROOF. Not one repair NONE it has never failed me. It has never failed to start,or has never stopped running on me.Matter of fact it still has the original battery,original brake pads (its a MT ).I could not be happier with it I still LOVE IT when I get another new car guess what I'll buy?

OOPS I have to edit, there was one repair about 5yrs ago,the passenger side power window. But that was covered by warranty.

 

[YSSMAN]

Really?

I personally wouldn't touch pre-2003 1.8Ts with a 10 foot pole, so you must really have a ringer there. But, I see you had the power window problem addressed. That always happens on that generation Jetta/Golf.

 

[Philly]

So VW does lemons backwards where they mess up a few cars so they actually last?

Do you drive it very hard or just like grandma?

 

[DaddyVDUB]

LOL No I tend to drive aggressively,but not all the time. It was my daily driver for 6 years. I have always kept the maintenence up. What is supposed to be wrong with the 1.8t it is as lively today as ever to me.

 

[homeforsummer]

Interesting to note that those Jettas (Bora in the UK) were always one of the highest-placed VWs in customer satisfaction surveys. I wonder if they built them better than the equivalent Golf? Personally I'd quite like a turbodiesel Bora.

 

[Stotty]

Interesting to note that those Jettas (Bora in the UK) were always one of the highest-placed VWs in customer satisfaction surveys. I wonder if they built them better than the equivalent Golf? Personally I'd quite like a turbodiesel Bora.

Possibly because the Bora is bought buy older people, who are a little more mechanically sypathetic and generally do less miles?

Hardly see anyone under 50 driving a Jetta/Bora... but loads of 20/30 somethings driving Golfs.

 

[Sniffs]

And a short memory of when petrol gets "expensive"? You guys need to eat more oily fish or lay off the weed if that's your problem.

how come threads swell to epic proportions the first time they pop up in the active search? I only check this site once a day...it's the only time I'm NOT on call

in the US Oily=cholesterol=DEATH while herbal=good=life. they're trying to vehgetarian us to death. besides, I had to look up a site IN BRITAN to find out about fish oil and its benefits. especially for my Dyspraxia. btw, Thanks, oh british reaserchers.

like I've said numerous times, americans think Deisel=truck=smelly=noisy=gas hog=Truckers (lorry drivers). not only that, no-one's told the rest of the world that deisel is more expensive than petrol over here, now (when it used to be half as much!) some americans look at what it will cost them NOW, not in the long run. besides, americans put so much money worth in their fuel tanks...during the 5 buck era, people would run out of gas because they wouldn't put mote than 10 bucks in the tank. I saw more cars pulled-over on the side of the road with a bag in the window because they ran out of gas. I'd also like to remind people, yet again, that americans have farther to go to get to anyplace. I do 220 miles PER DAY just running three guys to work and back. and that's using the shortest possible route. throw in having to crawl at 25/40 in this weather at 5:30 in the morning when the plow boys alarms haven't even gone off yet, and their unions don't even TRY to start them till 8 AM. I'm also ealing with a vehicle that has no antilocks, antiskid, traction controll, or modern safety equipment. I have to crawl to save my tyres from disintegrating when my brakes lock up because some damn fool at Toyota didn't put a multiple resivoir brake master on my vehicle.

another point is that americans do not generally "baby" their vehicles like the rest of the world does. remember, for years this was a throw away society. you changed cars every year. when you got a dent you replaced the whole car rather than pay 100 bucks for a wing that has to be shipped from the Peoples Republic. untill recently, it was cheaper to replace than fix. nowadays, it's too expensive to do either for some of us.

now, look! you got me into lecture mode, and WAY off topic.

personally, i think people will think the Polo is too damn small. they'll be thinking "yugo" all over again. i saw a friggin 6 footer folded in half in the one we got trying to save money.

 

[DaddyVDUB]

Possibly because the Bora is bought buy older people, who are a little more mechanically sypathetic and generally do less miles?

Hardly see anyone under 50 driving a Jetta/Bora... but loads of 20/30 somethings driving Golfs.

I'm under 50.

 

[Stotty]

There's always one exception to every rule

And I did say 'most'.

 

[homeforsummer]

Possibly because the Bora is bought buy older people, who are a little more mechanically sypathetic and generally do less miles?

Hardly see anyone under 50 driving a Jetta/Bora... but loads of 20/30 somethings driving Golfs.

Brand new maybe, but I've seen plenty of young people driving Boras. Probably partly because they're around 3 insurance groups lower than the equivalent Golf, for one thing. They're probably all second hand, but even so.

As saloons based on hatches go they're fairly fashionable too. Most people wouldn't be seen dead in a Megane/Focus saloon etc, but Boras and Jettas enjoy the same great image as other VWs do.

 

[YSSMAN]

...Must be why the Jetta made up 40% of VW sales in North America for so long, eh?

 

[L_Hamilton]

Well time to chime in here. My latest VW is a 2001 Wolfsburg Jetta 1.8 turbo. I purchased it new,it now has 87000 miles on it and I am glad to report it has been BULLETPROOF. Not one repair NONE it has never failed me. It has never failed to start,or has never stopped running on me.Matter of fact it still has the original battery,original brake pads (its a MT ).I could not be happier with it I still LOVE IT when I get another new car guess what I'll buy?

OOPS I have to edit, there was one repair about 5yrs ago,the passenger side power window. But that was covered by warranty.

What a needle in a haystack. My friend has a 2001 Jetta Wolfsburg and all I can say is...IT'S JUNK. Break down after break down. He might has well saved and got a new '08 GLI or something.

I'm happy with my MKIII GTI. No let downs after 111,000 Miles.

 

[TVC]

So basically a two door Golf? Cool... I guess...

Nevermind I guess it is just a smaller Golf... I don't really see the big deal...

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, its a bit more than that. The Polo is essentially the killer app that a lot of VW fans have been pushing for here in North America. The problem otherwise is that Volkswagen has made their MKV (and soon, MKVI) cars a bit too big for their britches, and with the upcoming introduction of the Fiesta into a market that is already being lead out by the otherwise exceptional Honda Fit (and Toyota Yaris, *sigh*), they are missing a MAJOR piece of market share. Especially when they're known so well for an otherwise quality car such as the Polo in Europe and South America.

So... Yeah. A pretty good car that is going to fill an ignored segment. A key thing, especially now that Fiat may be looking to sneak in here through your local Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep dealer.

 

[Philly]

The Polo is essentially the killer app that a lot of VW fans have been pushing for here in North America.

Here's hoping it doesn't repeat the success story of the Astra.

 

[Tornado]

Now that VW has the price of the Rabbit sorted, I can see this being fairly successful. Or, at least as successful as any VW can be in America.

 

[-ultraflow-]

I suppose for the Polo GTi the engine version will be the 1.4 TFSi (160hp).

 

[Philly]

I'd put my money on the 1.8T for a GTI version. That's the engine it has over in Europe, and the unit we'll be getting in the MKVI Golf. You won't be seeing the 2.0T in the Polo because then you'd be risking the Polo outperforming what is arguably VW's most important name. And VW will be putting as powerful an engine as possible in the base Polo to sell it here so that doesn't leave much play in the lineup.

However, I doubt we'll see a GTI version here. And if they dump the 1.8T into the base Polo here, I don't think we'll ever see one because VW won't want to bump the regular Polo down to make a GTI version that is just as fast as the old one was.