No ABS Is Terrible

Scaff
While both of those are quite true that doesn't change the fact that non-ABS braking in GTS is far more tricky and further from reality than almost any other racing title around.

Braking with a controller is far harder in racing titles that with a wheel and pedal set-up, assuming that the brake pedal has either a load cell or some form of brake mod fitted, with a load-cell / brake mod the travel can be limited to realistic levels and the feeling of needing to apply grater pressure for braking comes back.

While this does help with GTS, it doesn't fix the issues or solve the fact that GTS still doesn't do this well without ABS.
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OK. I have no experience of other racing titles and only had limited experience with a Logitech wheel and pedal setup that does not have the realistic pedal feel mods/features you mention.

Why do you think PD got it so wrong compared with other race titles?
 
ChilledMatt
OK. I have no experience of other racing titles and only had limited experience with a Logitech wheel and pedal setup that does not have the realistic pedal feel mods/features you mention.

Why do you think PD got it so wrong compared with other race titles?
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The single biggest issue that GTS has with barking is that you can't calibrate the pedals, if you could you would be able to set the pressure required for 100% braking yourself. With my pedals I do this so you need to apply around 30kgs of force for 100% brake force, and most titles allow you to set this via calibration.

With no calibration GTS hits 100% brake force well before that, which means a lot less force needed and makes it harder to modulate the braking.
 
Scaff
The single biggest issue that GTS has with barking is that you can't calibrate the pedals, if you could you would be able to set the pressure required for 100% braking yourself. With my pedals I do this so you need to apply around 30kgs of force for 100% brake force, and most titles allow you to set this via calibration.

With no calibration GTS hits 100% brake force well before that, which means a lot less force needed and makes it harder to modulate the braking.
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I think you can do that on the fist time you brake on the game, even if it register 100% of braking before the force you want, keep aplying force till you get the force you want.
And i believe that, every time you use more force/travel than the previously max it will recalibrate, i say this because my pedals were spiking and a got to a point where a could not reach 100% of braking in the game with full pedal travel.
 
Pedinhuh
I question anyone's sanity in playing this game without ABS...Sure enough it might be more fun or immersive to you(if you drive the 6 cars in this game that actually don't have ABS in real life), but you're putting yourself at a clear disadvantage here, and in a competitive mode and I hope this doesn't create accidents with other players in the game.
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Different strokes for different folks

Don’t race enough online to be concerned with disadvantages when the point of competitive online racing is finding exploits or exaggerating physics

Some of us actually enjoy playing offline

ABS off is the least concern from what I’ve seen in the insane world of Sport Mode. The most basic notion of recognizing a brake exists would be a good start...
 
Pedinhuh
I question anyone's sanity in playing this game without ABS...Sure enough it might be more fun or immersive to you(if you drive the 6 cars in this game that actually don't have ABS in real life), but you're putting yourself at a clear disadvantage here, and in a competitive mode and I hope this doesn't create accidents with other players in the game.
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GT6 was a major step up in no ABS brake control for GT although still far behind sims like PCars or AC and it was quite possible for me to set up no ABS braking and be consistently within 0.5-1.0 seconds off my ABS lap times. I would have thought they would have improved it with this version of the game. I would assume that a good number of the promised 500 DLC cars will be classics and I always prefer to drive cars with their real life set up. I do it for the enjoyment and immersion aspect of it and in GT6 it was only a minor disadvantage, not a major one. Driving without ABS is majorly fun in other sims, for me anyway, because you can adjust your setup to make threshold braking quite usable and the cars just feel more alive. ABS in the GT series doesn't behave the same as ABS in other games either, it's always been a kind of stability control as well as ABS or at least that's how it feels.
 
In the GT series with no and abs driving usually you must low down the strength of the brake to 0-1 if you use a pad or 1-2 if you have pedals
 
Goruk
I think you can do that on the fist time you brake on the game, even if it register 100% of braking before the force you want, keep aplying force till you get the force you want.
And i believe that, every time you use more force/travel than the previously max it will recalibrate, i say this because my pedals were spiking and a got to a point where a could not reach 100% of braking in the game with full pedal travel.
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While that has worked in part GT titles I've not found it effective (certainly not to the same degree I do in Asseto Corsa, which needs the same) in GTS.
 
ChilledMatt
When you brake a car in real life you get instant feedback in the form of g force. Without this feeling it is really difficult to feel the point where grip lets go. Furthermore, the amount of travel in a real life brake pedal is tiny compared to accelerator and clutch pedals.
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True. And in a real world, you get tons of resistance when you press the pedal to the metal.... But a dualshock4 hos no resistance in the 1 cm range. How do you emulate this in the game? By doing a 1:1 breake pedal/dualshock travel thing, or a pedalpresure= dualshock r2 travel OR just try to make it feel like in real life. Feeling might not be the same as simulation, but for gt sport might be the best suited sulotion. I think of gt sports more like a game which tries to make on feel like a caregiver then to aim for 100 simulation.

And the breake without abs doesn't suit the "make me feel like I'm driving a car" scenario with a dualshock.
 
Scaff
While both of those are quite true that doesn't change the fact that non-ABS braking in GTS is far more tricky and further from reality than almost any other racing title around.

Braking with a controller is far harder in racing titles that with a wheel and pedal set-up, assuming that the brake pedal has either a load cell or some form of brake mod fitted, with a load-cell / brake mod the travel can be limited to realistic levels and the feeling of needing to apply grater pressure for braking comes back.

While this does help with GTS, it doesn't fix the issues or solve the fact that GTS still doesn't do this well without ABS.
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When driving with a dualshock 4, weather using motionsteer or stick, we have tons of aids to make the game fun, making the cars drivable and trying to create the feeling of driving a car. Like speed steer, non linear steer, different speed steering for oversteer, simulating a heavy wheel etc etc etc. BUT NONE for breaking?(at least with abs of).

That is not consistent with the rest of the game. I love the game by the way.
 
Upping this topic, I drive without ABS on GTS with standard DS4 controller, don't know if it's realist but I find it well balanced, you can lock enough to loose control and go straight or almost. It takes some time to get used to a car, but I found it makes the game more fun/challenging/stressful, especially in race.

It may make me brake a little bit earlier though (as I might put less force when I'm not sure about when brakes will lock), which can be a problem on some online races. I try to avoid to bother cars behind me, often by going out of the ideal race line on the first corner, but sometimes I feel it's not easy.

Maybe I should made custom liveries with a big "NO ABS - BRAKE EARLY" sign on the back haha
 
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_ApexPredator
The fact of the matter is: driving without ABS is hard.
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No its really not.


_ApexPredator
It's not that the game is "terrible".
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In its recreation of braking with ABS its pretty damn poor, and certainly not a great recreation of reality (but can also be said of its with ABS braking, given that GTS is not brilliant at either modeling the impact of load transfer across four corners, but that suits the design target of GTS ).
 
Scaff
No its really not.
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Lol, ok. You must be an MSA license holder then.
Have you ever driven a car without ABS? How about a car with a racing brake setup without ABS? How about that car on a track, in competition, without ABS, like the comparison you're making with GT Sport?

Do you left-foot brake regularly IRL too? So that you have the required muscle memory to do so?

If so, then fair enough.
 
No ABS for me is situational. I use no ABS for my 86 GRMN drift car, but often times, ABS is the way to go. It's admirable if you an handle no ABS, but it's advantageous to use ABS.
 
_ApexPredator
Lol, ok. You must be an MSA license holder then.
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No.

_ApexPredator
Have you ever driven a car without ABS?
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Yes many times over my thirty years driving, twenty of which have been working in the motor industry, including a spell teaching vehicle dynamics.


_ApexPredator
How about a car with a racing brake setup without ABS?
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Yes, numerous times.


_ApexPredator
How about that car on a track, in competition, without ABS, like the comparison you're making with GT Sport?
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Not in competition (well unless you count Karting), but on track many times.


_ApexPredator
Do you left-foot brake regularly IRL too? So that you have the required muscle memory to do so?
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Yep, and heel and toe as well.

_ApexPredator
If so, then fair enough.
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Indeed it is, not that any of that is required to understand that GTS doesn't model this well.
 
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Ok, we'll agree to disagree then. I'm not saying it's the perfect model, but I don't think it's fair to call it terrible.
 
_ApexPredator
We're both commenting on a thread with the title "No ABS Is Terrible".
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Indeed we are, but that's not a term I personally would use.

It's certainly not good, but I've driven worse in racing titles in the past, and it's far from GTS biggest sin in regard to comparisons to reality.
 
I tried driving with no ABS briefly and couldn't handle it. I always keep ABS on default. Though I usually don't use traction control.
 
I think Sony could have done a better job of the DS4, you basically don't feel any vibrations through the triggers on the DS4 like you can on the xbox controller. I never used ABS in Forza because I always knew when I was starting to lock up.

On my G29 it's very difficult to know exactly when I'm going to lock up, but that is an issue for me in other games as well.
 
Thanks to this thread I tried ABS WEAK and I really enjoy it so far!! I did the GT3 race in an NSX on Nurburgring GP and it made things more enjoyable and faster too!

I found you really need to focus on blending brakes to throttle during the tight hairpins or else a spin was almost guaranteed. You need to either be on the brakes or throttle. So this blending means you’re on the throttle sooner so out of those corners quicker. It’s very satisfying.

The other thing is that you can’t just stand on the brakes at the end of a long straight. You need to sort of modulate a bit and also not slam the pedal as hard as possible. A nice, smooth depress is much better.

As I said, I only tried it with the NSX so far so does anybody know if this applies to other cars?
 
Sander 001
I found you really need to focus on blending brakes to throttle during the tight hairpins or else a spin was almost guaranteed. You need to either be on the brakes or throttle. So this blending means you’re on the throttle sooner so out of those corners quicker. It’s very satisfying.

The other thing is that you can’t just stand on the brakes at the end of a long straight. You need to sort of modulate a bit and also not slam the pedal as hard as possible. A nice, smooth depress is much better.
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In other words, you have to drive the thing ;) Good on you for giving it a try, and pleased to hear you're enjoying the challenge!

Sander 001
As I said, I only tried it with the NSX so far so does anybody know if this applies to other cars?
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I've found the M4 responds very well when you run it with ABS off or weak; much better weight transfer to the nose, especially with some - brake bias.
The 911 RSR too.

It's still too hard for me to race without ABS, but I've started to qualify for a few dailies with it off if the car is suitable, and switch it back to default for the race - could be worth a try too (Y)
 
I’ve never understood the ABS system in GT games.... let alone GTS.

They need to change the settings to OFF - REAL - ON and be done with it, I mean, do all cars really allow on the fly TCS modification? Nope....

I agree with the phased systems principle... but has anyone ever tried TC5... it’s like auto braking
 
Agree ABS Off is terribly implemented in GTS. Perplexing because they got this right in GT6. It's like they forgot everything and went back to GT5P/GT5 style ABS off again. It's funny because even supposedly "hardcore" sims like Assetto, rFactor, LFS are all easier to drive with ABS off, because they got the simulation correct.

Problem is also compounded by 2 things:
- Non linear brake, especially in the last 25% of travel (where you would want to be modulating the brakes)
- No brake force adjustment - in previous games the brake balance goes from 0-10 for front & rear, so you can manipulate the ratio AND individual force. Now it's just a single slider -5 to 5 so you can only adjust the ratio, but not force.

Oddly, if you set brake balance max to rear and use ABS off, the game still engages ABS so you don't spin out everytime you brake. Invisible aids much?

ABS Weak is semi drivable but still not quite right. And rather than guessing which corners I can take advantage of and which I need to be careful, I'll just use ABS On, for the sake of consistency and online safety. No point being "macho" and driving with all aids off, if it's not realistically simulated in the first place 👍
 
If I understand correctly the ABS has changed ? So driving off is a bit more realistic since pre last update.

Or did I just dream about this ?
 

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