No Restrictions = No Challenge = No fun?

[wnx_echo0010]

Haven't we already said all of these things?

 

[Ritterkreuz]

Well like some one else said they could have a click here for free cr and exp for all the racing relevance they've turned the events into.

Just to be clear I'm not of the elite at this game, but I'd sooner take a challenge and come up short than take part in a glorified check list simulator.

I understand, most people like to feel like they've earned the win, BUT, you have to make these things "earn-able" for the majority.

 

[uhsieh]

I believe someone suggested on another thread that why not have PD restrict the Seasonal Events like the the way before in the first week and allow unrestricted the second week.

I personally like that idea a lot. I have to admit that I'm not a very good driver and I had a hard time getting first (or even third!) on the second event. Then last week came and the restrictions were gone. I went back and got first on all of them. Then I did the THIRD event. No restrictions at all. Not as much fun.

Just my $.02

 

[Verbal]

Why should only the elite be rewarded the best stuff when I paid just as much money for the game as them? If you make stuff to hard you'll turn off the average gamer, and the average gamer represents the majority of a game's sales.

If I'm better than you (well, probably I'm not), why shouldn't I get better rewards? Isn't that the point? Fair means equal chances not equal results (besides not being able to gold a seasonal doesn't deprive you of anything, it will just take you a little longer to get through the game).

 

[WRECKU]

I enjoy being able to do as I please for the seasonal events. You want a really tough challenge? Do the time trials. That's what they're there for, to challenge yourself against the times of others.

Very good point.👍

 

[BigYoSpeck]

I understand, most people like to feel like they've earned the win, BUT, you have to make these things "earn-able" for the majority.

Why? I remember the old time trial leader boards on prologue. I was only ever good enough to break the top 100 on a couple of tracks/cars, I found that infinitely more satisfying than any of the gold cups I won. Some of the single player events on that, specifically the time trials with other cars on were brutally difficult, and even bronze on them was more satisfying than gold on the easier events.

What it comes down to are two types of people. You have those that want it honestly challenging, and those that just want to go through the motions and live the fantasy that they actually won anything. Without an intelligent compromise targeting either makes the other unhappy.

So what it comes down to is the debate over which the game should be, and seeing as one group is admitting they can't handle a challenge they lose the debate by default. Bam!

 

[boshuter]

I understand, most people like to feel like they've earned the win, BUT, you have to make these things "earn-able" for the majority.

Thats not "earning" anything... it's just giving it to you because you are too lazy to put in the effort to "earn" it, I'm sure you have been conditioned to expect things like that. Hopefully, you are not a "majority".

Just because you are not able to earn something at your current level and don't have the ambition to get better... doesn't mean it has to be given to you. I'd rather be stuck on bronze than have a gold spoon fed to me.

 

[JeffKill]

I liked the restrictions, but pissing and moaning about them not being there anymore isn't getting us anywhere.

IMO the ability to use SRF was enough for those that just wanted to fly through the challenges for the quick credits and XP. But I don't think my opinion really matters on the subject, so I'll continue to just challenge myself and not upgrade the holy hell out of my cars 👍

 

[Ritterkreuz]

Why?

One word: Economics. You sell more sequels if more people enjoy the game, and not so many sequels if people are getting frustrated with it.

You have those that want it honestly challenging

Agreed, but if you make it too challenging then you cross the line and it becomes frustrating. What might be rewarding for you might result in a tossed PlayStation controller for many others. People have to feel like they might actually be able to obtain the goal.

The thing is what's obtainable for one person may be impossible for another, and most people are going to get frustrated long before they get better. Not all of us have all the time in the world to work on getting better at a video game. That's the other rub, it's a video game, something that's supposed to be a distraction, so again, if it's frustratingly difficult, no one will play except for the hard-core fans and uber-elite gamers.

 

[Ritterkreuz]

so I'll continue to just challenge myself and not upgrade the holy hell out of my cars 👍

👍

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

Someone suggested to just put an "instant money transfer" button there so you wouldn't have to put up with the stupid driving. Seems to be what people want...

This may come as a shock to you, but not everyone cares for or wants to be bothered with the "economy" aspects of these games. Especially when certain cars are priced at levels that require weeks of grinding just to attain one car.

It's supposed to be a driving/racing simulator, not a economic simulator. I for one wish they'd remove ALL the credits from these types of games (Forza is even more guilty of trying to be a economy game) and have all cars and upgrades both free and accessible from the moment you put the game in.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

One word: Economics. You sell more sequels if more people enjoy the game, and not so many sequels if people are getting frustrated with it.



Agreed, but if you make it too challenging then you cross the line and it becomes frustrating. What might be rewarding for you might result in a tossed PlayStation controller for many others. People have to feel like they might actually be able to obtain the goal.

The thing is what's obtainable for one person may be impossible for another, and most people are going to get frustrated long before they get better. Not all of us have all the time in the world to work on getting better at a video game. That's the other rub, it's a video game, something that's supposed to be a distraction, so again, if it's frustratingly difficult, no one will play except for the hard-core fans and uber-elite gamers.

Those people are buying the wrong game then and I find it disappointing that PD pander to them.

I let a female friend of mine play it and first corner she drove straight into the wall at 100mph and asked 'whats wrong with it?' I told her nothing, she'd come up to the corner at silly speed without braking and hit a wall just like a real car would. She asked 'whats the point in that it's a game why would they make it so you have to do the same as in real life?' I put NFS: Hot Pursuit on for her and she was happy as Larry.

And isn't that why people that like GT like it because it doesn't pander to the average, because it almost sadistically punishes you for anything less than excellence? I really don't see why anyone would want it unless it was for the uncompromised challenge because if you take those away from it, the rest is rather substandard.

You see the debates over GT5 vs Forza 3 and the GT5 fans slate the 'on rails' handling and rewind feature because even though GT has the SRF and TC to ease you into it, they can be turned off to make it uncompromised for the purist.

 

[Ritterkreuz]

Those people are buying the wrong game then and I find it disappointing that PD pander to them.

So PD should make a game that only appeals to a minority of people. Not a good idea from a sales stand point. I would like to see a GT 6, 7, etc. someday. Heck I'll be playing GT 25 on the PlayStation 12 when it comes out (I imagine it'll just plug into your brain or something). However, if you make the game frustratingly difficult then you'll loose too many sales and that won't ever happen.

Frankly I think this could all be solved by putting in some sort of optional difficultly level. That way the average gamers could obtain the game's rewards and enjoy it, while the hardcore guys could have the satisfaction of knowing that they beat the game on "Extreme" or whatever you want to call it. The harder difficulties could have more penalties, or restrictions, or something along those lines.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

So PD should make a game that only appeals to a minority of people. Not a good idea from a sales stand point. I would like to see a GT 6, 7, etc. someday. Heck I'll be playing GT 25 on the PlayStation 12 when it comes out (I imagine it'll just plug into your brain or something). However, if you make the game frustratingly difficult then you'll loose to many sales and that won't ever happen.

Frankly I think this could all be solved by putting in some sort of optional difficultly level. that way the average gamers could obtain the game's rewards and enjoy it, while the hardcore guys could have the satisfaction of knowing that they beat the game on "Extreme" or whatever you want to call it. The harder difficulties could have more penalties, or restrictions, or something along those lines.

Who says it's a minority? I've not seen any polls or hard figures that say people who want the game to be a walk through out number those who want it to be a challenge. Again I don't see how people that can't take a challenge would be interested in GT any way, a game that forces you to approach the game in a realistic challenging manner, most people like that are happier with their NFS games, games that are frankly much better if you want a game that doesn't make you push yourself.

I doubt the reason the Seasonal events have become a breeze is because of public outcry that they are too hard. When the first lot came out most of the feedback I remember reading was how great it was to have a challenge and at worse people asking for advice and help on how to beat them, because that human desire to best a challenge was being stimulated. As soon as they dropped the limitations the flood of complaints emerged and the laziness of people who were probably quite happy to at least try a challenge kicked in and they just upgraded their way to gold. No I suspect it's because it's easier for the PD staff to just go, this track, these cars bam done rather than balance the difficulty like they were.

 

[Gizoku]

I really liked it when they were restricted as it felt like you needed to push to the limit to win. I started looking up tunings online and actually felt like I was learning enough to start tuning myself (not a big car person aside from GT), also felt like I was learning a lot about driving doing these events and it felt like a real achievement and like I'd earned the credits/XP.

Each to their own though, but I don't understand why PD can't put in say two unrestricted, two restricted and one partially restricted event in each set of bonus races, then everyone would be happy!

 

[Ritterkreuz]

I genuinely enjoy the skill required to take a car around the track in GT5, I do, let's be perfectly clear on that. I enjoy the way the cars handle, brake, accelerate, the graphics, etc. Just thought I'd clarify that so there's no misconception here.

What I don't enjoy are games that are made so utterly difficult that there's no hope of ever beating them, thus no enjoyment. You obviously have more time and patience for video games then I do. I can't even start playing GT5 until my 5 year old is tucked in bed at night. You probably have more natural talent at video games then I, who knows.

Like I said before, I think a difficulty setting would end a lot of this debate.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

I'm only lvl 25 dude vs your 28

I really only play it at weekends for a few hours and personally, this limited playing if anything makes it more important to me that that time is spent seriously pushing my limits, even if they only earn me a lower ranking achievement than that limited time feeling wasted just going through the motions of unlocking a games features.

I get some peoples frustrations with there being parts of the game they may not be skilled/patient enough to access (I've settled for mostly silver on the license tests) and I think the arcade mode should be better developed for them. I don't understand why every car and track isn't just available on it, if I hadn't have already known the Nurburgring fairly well that unlocking it was a trivial exercise it would have seriously got my goat.

 

[Ritterkreuz]

I get some peoples frustrations with there being parts of the game they may not be skilled/patient enough to access (I've settled for mostly silver on the license tests) and I think the arcade mode should be better developed for them. I don't understand why every car and track isn't just available on it, if I hadn't have already known the Nurburgring fairly well that unlocking it was a trivial exercise it would have seriously got my goat.

I'm glad to hear that you understand people's frustrations. There are a lot of uber-gamers out there (not saying you're one of them) that don't. They demand challenging games for them to make themselves feel "733t" and then brag about how "easy" it was. They're the ones who get to me.

Anyway, let's just agree that we both enjoy playing GT games, even GT5 despite whatever flaws it may have. I get you're point about wanting a challenge, and yeah, I'll admit that I've bronzed and silvered my way through the licenses as well (I got a few gold's, but not too many).

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

I'm pleased that they've removed the restrictions since nobody at PD knows that Gran Turismo is played with control pads as well as wheels, having two different difficulties would've solved it but removing the restriction's makes the seasonal events possible for anybody and you don't need to max a car to win sometimes no changes are needed or just small tweak.

 

[kuma78]

Challenging yourself is not the same as beating someone else's challenge.

Fine, I challenge YOU sir to complete the seasons using only stock cars, comfort hard tires and not passing any cars for the first 60 seconds of a race.

 

[Me007gold]

I'm pleased that they've removed the restrictions since nobody at PD knows that Gran Turismo is played with control pads as well as wheels, having two different difficulties would've solved it but removing the restriction's makes the seasonal events possible for anybody and you don't need to max a car to win sometimes no changes are needed or just small tweak.

None of these challanges require a wheel. They were all doable with a DS3. It just took practice, and knowlege of the track. It was enjoyable. Now it feels like a chore to get xp and credits. The only difference between this and gridning is its something new.

 

[mikeygaga]

I think a great idea would be let hp and weight determine how much cash and xp you earn.For example, you enter the challenge using a stock car with no mods for hp or weight and you win.Lets say you get 1,000,000 cash and 100,000 xp.Another player cant place with a stock car so he mods it and has 100 more hp and his car weighs 200kg less.He finally wins and gets 500,000 cash and 50,000 xp.This would be the best for both worlds.

 

[neil1280]

I think a great idea would be let hp and weight determine how much cash and xp you earn.For example, you enter the challenge using a stock car with no mods for hp or weight and you win.Lets say you get 1,000,000 cash and 100,000 xp.Another player cant place with a stock car so he mods it and has 100 more hp and his car weighs 200kg less.He finally wins and gets 500,000 cash and 50,000 xp.This would be the best for both worlds.

thats exactly what i was gonna say

 

[ludokid]

The seasonal event is optional, and such great benefits (exp and money) shouldn't be that easy to get in my opinion.
It should be challenging, its a challenge they give us, shouldn't it demand perfection?
I was soo happy about this, sooo miss the difficulty about being able to pass licenses, which is no longer needed in GT5.
I want a challenge which gives soo much pleasure in succeeding!

The GT5 is known for its hardcore driving, and not being as easy as NFS series.. if you want such a game, you buy that game. why does every game need to be the same? what makes a game stand out? a game which differs from others, taking it to the extreme.

I was soo sad when I got home from work and was to spend an entire day with these new seasonal events (week 2), and got to know that all restrictions were lifted

Ain't it fun trying to get in that perfect lap, and conquer the event after some hours of hair pulling, dispair etc? No satisfaction can beat that feeling!

GT series wouldn't be this HUGE if it was easy.

 

[koldar.308]

Do you have to have concrete restrictions in place to challenge youself? Are you incapable of placing your own imaginary restrictions on your race?

 

[BigYoSpeck]

Do you have to have concrete restrictions in place to challenge youself? Are you incapable of placing your own imaginary restrictions on your race?

Mate I can't even trust myself to portion out food fairly between myself and others. Trying to honestly impose restrictions is impossible.

Take the RX7 Tsukuba challenge from the 2nd batch. I started with the car stock, got absolutely battered, about 10th on it. I was faster than everything on the corners but they were out accelerating me on the straights. I figured they must not be running standard power, gave myself a few tweaks and this time got 2nd, but I wasn't even gaining on the 1st position. My laps were something like 1.04 and I figured they needed to be down to 1 minute to win. I put a couple of more tweaks on and was really close, just behind 1st going over the line. Tweaked the suspension and beat it. So that was 40 laps of Tsukuba which with loading was a bit over an hour of my time. Not an hour beating a challenge, but an hour finding out what it even was. And honestly I don't know if I beat it with the minimum you need, I mean could this have been done stock?

If it had been an hour on it with limitations, even if I'd not managed gold it would have been an enjoyable hour, instead it felt like I was doing PD's job for them testing the difficulty balance and honestly I don't feel any accomplishment because I have this nagging feeling it could have been done with less upgrades.

The thing is I don't get what satisfaction people who are happy it's now easy get from beating it like this. You breeze through it, get given a wad of cr and exp letting you splash out on an even more over powered car to then breeze through other races with little to no challenge. I just don't get what pleasure there is in something that doesn't tax you and push your limits.

 

[G8Spectre]

something else to consider is that not all of us have the will or the means to spend an absurd amount of money on wheels, pedals, special seats, etc.

with a DS3 and my average or less driving skills I simply am incapable of competing with you people with really hardcore setups who spend hours a day grinding every track and memorizing every corner.

does that mean I don't deserve to earn money, win challenges, and collect cars? Why should I have to spend hundreds of dollars ontop of the price of the game and thousands of hours of my life to complete a $50 video game?

 

[Dave_Panic]

The thing is there's room for both types of gamer. As it stands there's not a lot in the single player game for people who like a challenge. Is that fair on us?

There're plenty of things they could do. Have some restricted, some not. Maybe they could put some thought into it and make the restrictions not so severe.

 

[100%TrueGTRazer]

Challenging yourself is not the same as beating someone else's challenge. There's still plenty of glory/money to be had getting silvers or bronzes but can we not keep the golds as something special? Why does everything in every game these days have to be easily achievable by everyone? And what exactly does it mean to get that gold trophy? With no restrictions it doesn't mean anything.

Good post mate ;-)

 

[shinbone]

I don't know. If your not pro at a game like me the first ones were very frustrating with me spending my one hour of gt5 every couple days or so repeatedly pressing the restart button. I only managed 3rd in the fiat one and wasted money on a mini cooper for a challenge that I could not beat. The Lotus Elise challenge was arguably my favorite race I've done. So by saying that because there are no restrictions the races aren't fun doesnt make sense.