Nos in gt5

[MisterSTig]

i think you are talking in WAY to general of terms. First i would love to see where this 10% increase in HP number comes from as im sure you made it up, and in all honesty NO2 does not necessarily have to damage your engine even "slowly" as you put it. While in general more power=more heat=more stress=more wear, this does not automatically mean your car is slowly being damaged. Heck, if you want to get technical every time you start your car you are slowly damaging your car.

so...breaking news...if you have a performance car and don't want to blow up your engine...DON'T TURN IT ON!

At what point of that statement said anything about 10% increase of horsepower? Did I even mention HP? Talk about comprehension skills. Again, I was talking about using the nitrous. It would be IRRELEVANT if it's not in use.

Oh please, you were just wrong and don't want to admit it...

Lets try it again...

"Nitrous Oxide won't destroy your engine any more than bolting on a pair of turbos or a supercharger would its all about the proper tune..."

there is ABSOLUTELY no way to infer from that statement that i was implying that nitrous would not destroy your engine. It is 100% clear that i said it wouldn't damage your engine any more than a turbo or supercharger, plain and simple. I then added "its all about the proper tune..." meaning that the relative safety of running modifications is all about how well the car is tuned...

I'm not here to give you a special lesson on how to decipher your own message.

really? would have never guessed

Sarcasm. Our panel of psychologist said......... "Got nothing to say constructive"

WRONG, there is nothing wrong with enjoying the movie or even having a forum name based on it. it does not in anyway mean you are ignorant.

Again what you said is irrelevant. The whole thing is related to NOS and how the whole movie is perceived to kids as this real life style.

it won't blow up because the gas is not flammable, but it will break down at high temperatures and cause a release of oxygen gas which can cause quite an explosion...

it MOST CERTAINLY DOES...shows how much you know.

Really? Please elaborate how a downforce on the back of a front wheel drive car helpful except hydroplaning? Go back to the physics board and tell me.

No I don't get it because YOU don't get it. If it is ok for you to jump to the conclusion that someone is ignorant simply because their name is "Tokyo Drift" then i will jump to the conclusion that you are ignorant about cars because you like a show that is more about making you laugh then real automotive journalism.

Nothing else constructive to say? Moving along..... again.. irrelevant.

"General Knowledge" is certainly a relative term. If you want to get technical I wouldn't put anything automotive in the "general knowledge" category because the average person knows VERY little about cars, especially how nitrous oxide works. It is "general knowledge" in my group of friends, about how to build and properly setup a computer. How to install and calibrate home theater equipment and other tech goodies....but I wouldn't consider ANY of that to be general knowledge for anyone.

You totally skewed the whole argument. First you say I'm flexing my knowledge, then you switch games and try to tell me it's a relative term?

Look I don't have something against you nor I dislike you. But I will point out something I don't like. Don't take it personal.

 

[S13DRIFTSPEC]

Really? Please elaborate how a downforce on the back of a front wheel drive car helpful except hydroplaning? Go back to the physics board and tell me.

Ok..since you don't know.... It's for cornering. FWD are prone to cornering on 3 wheels. A rear wing can help. Also some FWD cars can oversteer and lose the grip of the rear wheels. You can add a rear spoiler to help.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Really? Please elaborate how a downforce on the back of a front wheel drive car helpful except hydroplaning? Go back to the physics board and tell me.

Can you please tell me then, why touringcars such as those racing in WTCC have rear wings, that actually produce downforce? I´m pretty sure it´s not because their engineers are stupid.

Like S13DRIFTSPEC said, DF is for cornering, and has very little effect at lower speeds.

And by the way, oxygen is not flammable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen#Combustion_and_other_hazards

 

[Metfanant]

At what point of that statement said anything about 10% increase of horsepower? Did I even mention HP? Talk about comprehension skills. Again, I was talking about using the nitrous. It would be IRRELEVANT if it's not in use.

you said OEM parts are only designed to operate within a 10% tolerance...when talking about a power adder it would be easy to assume you are talking about POWER....

I'm not here to give you a special lesson on how to decipher your own message.

exactly, because there is no way to decipher my message in the way you did, therefore your ego won't allow you to admit it...

Sarcasm. Our panel of psychologist said......... "Got nothing to say constructive"

oh really? I'd love to meet this panel.

Again what you said is irrelevant. The whole thing is related to NOS and how the whole movie is perceived to kids as this real life style.

Oh please, you are just ignorant.

laugh it up dude, but you obviously have no knowledge of how Nitrous Oxide actually works. NO2 is an oxygen carrier. It works by breaking down at high temperatures lol. A simple Google search would have saved your the embarrassment as the very first result on a "How does nitrous oxide work?" search states...

When you heat nitrous oxide to about 570 degrees F (~300 C), it splits into oxygen and nitrogen. So the injection of nitrous oxide into an engine means that more oxygen is available during combustion.

if you don't think its possible for it to break down during a fire and contribute to said fire you are a lost cause. It won't blow up like the eclipse in The Fast and the Furious, but the breakdown of the gas and subsequent release of oxygen would certainly fuel an already burning fire.

Really? Please elaborate how a downforce on the back of a front wheel drive car helpful except hydroplaning? Go back to the physics board and tell me.

I am now beginning to understand your problem. You have issues with anything you perceive as "rice." I think the two guys that already responded to your question took care of it, but i'll also prove you wrong because this is becoming good fun.

As already stated the rear wing is to help during cornering. The effect of wings and splitters is dependent on speed. In fact, even on RWD cars a wing actually does VERY LITTLE at launch because there is simply not enough air going over the wing to actually create downforce.

So the benefit of the wings is not realized fully until the cars are at speed and cornering. by having a wing on the rear of the car it allows the rear end to stay planted and not slide out behind you. If you think this cannot happen in a FWD car you have obviously never driven one at high speeds through corners.

Nothing else constructive to say? Moving along..... again.. irrelevant.

what did you say? i couldn't hear you through your ignorance...

You totally skewed the whole argument. First you say I'm flexing my knowledge, then you switch games and try to tell me it's a relative term?

No, my point was you are trying to pass your "vast automotive knowledge" off as common knowledge when anything to do with cars is far from common knowledge...

Look I don't have something against you nor I dislike you. But I will point out something I don't like. Don't take it personal.

oh, its not personal at all. I'm just enjoying that i keep getting to prove you wrong 👍

And by the way, oxygen is not flammable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen#Combustion_and_other_hazards

I'm not sure if this was directed at me, but if it was...I don't recall saying oxygen itself was flammable, but if i did you are correct, it is not in the sense that it will just combust on its own....BUT...it is one of the major fuels of combustion and will accelerate a fire if added to an already burning one. Which is why i stated that if NO2 were to break down IN a fire the oxygen would accelerate said fire by providing fuel.

 

[magicalgin]

guys... its N2O not NO2... =.=''
N2O isn't toxic whereas NO2 is very toxic. I wouldn't suggest putting NO2 in your engine.. as it will react with the metal of your engine..

 

[Metfanant]

guys... its N2O not NO2... =.=''
N2O isn't toxic whereas NO2 is very toxic. I wouldn't suggest putting NO2 in your engine.. as it will react with the metal of your engine..

oh jesus, yes you are right...silly mistake on my part. Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

And by the way, oxygen is not flammable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen#Combustion_and_other_hazards

I beg your pardon, but if oxygen is combined with the slightest trace of oil base it is highly explosive.

That is the reason no spark or flame warnings always accompany the presence or use of oxygen.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

I'm not sure if this was directed at me, but if it was...I don't recall saying oxygen itself was flammable, but if i did you are correct, it is not in the sense that it will just combust on its own....BUT...it is one of the major fuels of combustion and will accelerate a fire if added to an already burning one. Which is why i stated that if NO2 were to break down IN a fire the oxygen would accelerate said fire by providing fuel.

It was not directed to you, it was directed to MisterSTigs smiley when you said oxygen wasn´t flammable!

I beg your pardon, but if oxygen is combined with the slightest trace of oil base it is highly explosive.

That is the reason no spark or flame warnings always accompany the presence or use of oxygen.

Indeed! But oxygen cannot burn. It can´t burn on it´s own, it just ads room for the flames to burn, so to speak.

 

[MisterSTig]

Ok..since you don't know.... It's for cornering. FWD are prone to cornering on 3 wheels. A rear wing can help. Also some FWD cars can oversteer and lose the grip of the rear wheels. You can add a rear spoiler to help.

Can you please tell me then, why touringcars such as those racing in WTCC have rear wings, that actually produce downforce? I´m pretty sure it´s not because their engineers are stupid.

Like S13DRIFTSPEC said, DF is for cornering, and has very little effect at lower speeds.

And by the way, oxygen is not flammable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen#Combustion_and_other_hazards

S13DRIFTSPEC, a rear wing on a front wheel drive car will not help. A rear wing is effective at 70-80+ mph. The 3 wheels you are referring to a a sudden shift in weight in a split second not acheiving a constant speed of 70-80+ mph. Front wheel drive cannot oversteer. It may feel like an oversteer due to the back sliding out due to tires. They have torque steering which instantly converts to understeer. Putting downforce on the back slows the car down at high speeds and practically useless in cornering. Don't confuse banks as real cornering.

Mt. Lynx, I never said downforce in general is not helpful. Rear downforce on FWD are.

you said OEM parts are only designed to operate within a 10% tolerance...when talking about a power adder it would be easy to assume you are talking about POWER....

exactly, because there is no way to decipher my message in the way you did, therefore your ego won't allow you to admit it...

Refer to my last post.

oh really? I'd love to meet this panel.

Our panel of psychologist says........ "Grow up"

Oh please, you are just ignorant.

Wow you are a moron. If you really cannot comprehend that I how low is your IQ.

laugh it up dude, but you obviously have no knowledge of how Nitrous Oxide actually works. NO2 is an oxygen carrier. It works by breaking down at high temperatures lol. A simple Google search would have saved your the embarrassment as the very first result on a "How does nitrous oxide work?" search states...


if you don't think its possible for it to break down during a fire and contribute to said fire you are a lost cause. It won't blow up like the eclipse in The Fast and the Furious, but the breakdown of the gas and subsequent release of oxygen would certainly fuel an already burning fire.

First off all I already explained how N20 works on cars. Second it's N20 not N02. Third at what point did I say it would not a fuel an already burning fire? I said it's not combustible. Again go back to the comprehension skills you are bragging about. Stop reading articles and actually have hands-on on what the hell you are talking about.

I am now beginning to understand your problem. You have issues with anything you perceive as "rice." I think the two guys that already responded to your question took care of it, but i'll also prove you wrong because this is becoming good fun.

As already stated the rear wing is to help during cornering. The effect of wings and splitters is dependent on speed. In fact, even on RWD cars a wing actually does VERY LITTLE at launch because there is simply not enough air going over the wing to actually create downforce.

So the benefit of the wings is not realized fully until the cars are at speed and cornering. by having a wing on the rear of the car it allows the rear end to stay planted and not slide out behind you. If you think this cannot happen in a FWD car you have obviously never driven one at high speeds through corners.

Depending on the two guys that you think that answer the question? Have you ever raced before? Have you ever been in a wind tunnel to change aerodynamics property of the car? No. 1 out of the 2 guys that think that helped you didn't understand my statement. I never said anything about a splitter. I said rear downforce on a FWD.

what did you say? i couldn't hear you through your ignorance...

Stick to Pokemons and Need for Speed. You have no input in automotive knowledge aside from Google.

No, my point was you are trying to pass your "vast automotive knowledge" off as common knowledge when anything to do with cars is far from common knowledge...

Yeah, whatever. Make excuses. That's not the point and you know it.

oh, its not personal at all. I'm just enjoying that i keep getting to prove you wrong 👍

Not personal? Have you seen your posts? Proving me wrong? When, how? The only one you proved wrong is your comprehension skills.

 

[Metfanant]

S13DRIFTSPEC, a rear wing on a front wheel drive car will not help.

absolutely incorrect, a properly designed aerodynamic system INCLUDING a rear wing can most certainly benefit a FWD car

A rear wing is effective at 70-80+ mph.

Really? is that a FACT?

Helbig claims the wings 'n' things work from as low as 50 mph, and on fast sweepers the Viper engineers have seen a sustained 1.5g lateral grip.....

whoops...Now, the Viper ACR is an extreme setup, but it still shows that a properly setup aero package can be effective at "low" speeds

The 3 wheels you are referring to a a sudden shift in weight in a split second not acheiving a constant speed of 70-80+ mph.

right because you can't suddenly shift weight at 70 or 80?? come on bro...

Front wheel drive cannot oversteer. It may feel like an oversteer due to the back sliding out due to tires. They have torque steering which instantly converts to understeer. Putting downforce on the back slows the car down at high speeds and practically useless in cornering. Don't confuse banks as real cornering.

Oh Dear...you do realize that the very definition of oversteer is that the back wheels are not following the front tires, or that the back tires lose grip before the front right?

so if the back is sliding out...that is not a "feel like an oversteer" that is a textbook definition of oversteer.

and now lets go back to MotorTrend...

Squeeze on the power and feel the forces build. Feel, too, the aerodynamics squeezing the car down onto the track, keeping everything eerily calm. Helbig claims the wings 'n' things work from as low as 50 mph, and on fast sweepers the Viper engineers have seen a sustained 1.5g lateral grip. At 120 mph through Willow's long Turn 8 the downforce was like a giant hand, settling the car over a mid-corner bump that has machinery like 911s and M3 CSLs feeling a bit squirrelly.

Now, notice they make no mention of it helping the car from breaking traction or oversteering being RWD, so this fully applies to FWD cars...now you explain to me the .5g increase in lateral grip over a "normal" Viper and the feeling through a turn @ 120mph...and tell me how the rear wing was USELESS in cornering...

Also....I assume you would like to email the engineers working for these race teams and tell them that the rear wings they have on their FWD cars are useless and actually hurting performance right???

http://www.fiawtcc.com/Cars_Details.asp?idCar=20
http://www.fiawtcc.com/Cars_Details.asp?idCar=9
http://www.fiawtcc.com/Cars_Details.asp?idCar=23
http://www.fiawtcc.com/Cars_Details.asp?idCar=38
http://www.fiawtcc.com/Cars_Details.asp?idCar=45

Mt. Lynx, I never said downforce in general is not helpful. Rear downforce on FWD are.

and you are wrong...

Refer to my last post.

i still see you can't admit you were wrong...

Our panel of psychologist says........ "Grow up"

still can't show me this panel eh??

Wow you are a moron. If you really cannot comprehend that I how low is your IQ.

name calling...i like it...stay classy San Diego..

First off all I already explained how N20 works on cars.

yet apparently you don't understand

Second it's N20 not N02.

which i already admitted i made a mistake about...

Third at what point did I say it would not a fuel an already burning fire? I said it's not combustible.

please, your smilie speaks for itself. While oxygen is not combustible, it is a NECESSARY component of combustion. Due to the fact that Nitrous Oxide breaks down at high temperatures and in turn releases its stored oxygen molecules it would ABSOLUTELY cause a reaction to an already burning fire, and if the release was high enough it could certainly cause an explosion, especially considering the oxygen gas would be trapped inside the bottle....

Again go back to the comprehension skills you are bragging about. Stop reading articles and actually have hands-on on what the hell you are talking about.

what did you say? you were wrong??

Depending on the two guys that you think that answer the question? Have you ever raced before? Have you ever been in a wind tunnel to change aerodynamics property of the car? No. 1 out of the 2 guys that think that helped you didn't understand my statement.

sure they understood, and proved you wrong, rear downforce can absolutely help a FWD car...

I never said anything about a splitter. I said rear downforce on a FWD.

but anyone who has such vast experience in automotive aerodynamics would know that the two work hand in hand...💡

Stick to Pokemons and Need for Speed. You have no input in automotive knowledge aside from Google.

maybe you should try Google sometime...because you're wrong...you might actually learn something that is correct...

Yeah, whatever. Make excuses. That's not the point and you know it.

that was MY point, so as far as im concerned it is THE point.

Not personal? Have you seen your posts? Proving me wrong? When, how? The only one you proved wrong is your comprehension skills.

no, its not personal...I'm just having fun on the internet. If you can't see where you have been proven wrong then you are lost...

 

[JohnBM01]

I would probably agree on the notion of Nitrous (not NoS) being excluded. However, I'm more of an aggressive-type (and sometimes opportunistic) racer. The first car I equipped with Nitrous was my Opel Speedster Turbo. I felt I needed it, especially considering how brutal the AI is in the Opel Speedster single race series. Once I started becoming more familiar with the deal, I equipped a few more cars with this. I almost imagine I could actually see fires from using nitrous, but I do notice it when I go to the roof cam or in-car cam in GT4.

As for seeing this in GT5, it may be likely we'll see this make a return. I don't always like thinking of "ricing" or something like that in regards to this. Even some drag racers have nitrous bottles. If I would recommend anything, I'd probably be happy with a few stages of nitrous.

 

[niky]

Front wheel drive cannot oversteer. It may feel like an oversteer due to the back sliding out due to tires. They have torque steering which instantly converts to understeer. Putting downforce on the back slows the car down at high speeds and practically useless in cornering. Don't confuse banks as real cornering.

What was that?

Speak louder. I don't think they heard you...



Come on... say it again...



-

More downforce = more grip. More grip is good. Granted, you need to combine a rear wing with a front splitter to make it work properly (true of any car, FWD, AWD or RWD... which is why the Viper ACR has a removable front splitter for track use), but rear wings do make sense for any track car.

Now... typically, FWD touring cars don't generally oversteer... because the suspension settings prevent it. And FWD road cars usually don't oversteer because they're designed to understeer first. Hell, many RWD cars understeer like pigs due to the same suspension settings... only a very few are truly neutral... like the MX-5.

I have seen and experienced oversteer on FWD road cars driven on the track many, many, many times. That's one of the reasons my wife won't ride shotgun with me on the circuit, anymore...

 

[Eric Demory]

If they do add nitro again, it should look like in those street racing games. Though without the nitro shooting out so far.

 

[Nicksfix]

Staying on the topic at hand,the biggest 2 letter word in the English language :

NO

 

[S13DRIFTSPEC]

Seriously I got dumber after reading MisterSTIG's post. It was like...
FWD can't over steer? What? (raises one eyebrow)
70-80mph blah blah 3 wheels? What?? (raises other eyebrow)
Rear downforce on FWD not helpful? (opens mouth) Duhhhhh....

Rainbow NOS like Need for Speed Underground FTW. PSSHHHHHEWWW

 

[Gejost]

I hope not. NFS Shift has it and it feels wrong.

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

Gt4 had the most realistic rendition of Nitrous oxide that i have ever seen in a game.

Even the correct sound.

It was Great in GT4 it will be Great in GT5 if it makes it's appearance.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

NOS should be back. And by should, I mean, it better. It was implemented nicely in GT4. It didn't have that insane NFS style NOS, but rather in the classic GT style (sleek and modest). Not over-the-top. Just right.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

I don´t mind having N2O in GT5. It did help alot at all my 300+mph runs in GT4. But on the other hand, I never used it elsewhere in GT4.
A simple solution would be that if you don´t equip it, the AI doesn´t either. Infact, I´d like that to be true for all tuningparts! That would surely rid us of the "rabbitcars"!

@MasterSTig: I think you need to read up on your aerodynamic knowledge here. The drivetrain has very little to nothing to do with aerodynamics. It seems you don´t even know how a wing works. Read this. Sure, it doesn´t mention what effect it has on FWD, but that´s irrelevant. Aerodynamics (be it lower drag or more DF) will be beneficial for any type of car.

 

[TopHat]

The only way I'd use Nitrous was if it made flames shoot out of the exhaust. Because it's awesome.