Not a SIM

[jake2013guy]

One example that still blows my mind is that GT Planet never got a review copy (@Famine mentioned it), despite being the largest sim racing forum on the planet and being packed with people from what has to be one of the target audiences, GT Sport players.

Considering what Terronium said about it, it's probably a good thing fewer people were able to review the game.

 

[Konan]

Of course I don't think only marketing was affected, Konan, but that's totally besides the point. If they had other priorities than releasing gameplay videos, maybe they shouldn't have announced weekly videos a few days prior. Or simply have some backup plan, the pandemic was hardly news at that time and a quick hotlap shouldn't take too much time or editing skills.

But what's done is done. Or to say it in orange, it is what it is.

To be fair though (and not an excuse for anything) Sony jumped the gun on announcing the game release.So i imagine everything got pushed beyond what they were expecting...
Considering what they planned on marketing disrupted by the virus it all became "a perfect storm"

 

[Famine]

Really?
After all the bad comments over here you were really expecting a review copy?
That really shows how dumb you think SMS are...

As the site's editor I can very clearly state that no, we weren't expecting anything.

It was surprising that SMS/BN or the PR firms contracted to marketing didn't consider the largest sim-racing media site on the internet as an outlet that should have a review copy - instead preferring mainstream outlets and sim-racing YouTubers - but that's their call to make. We have no expectations from any developer, because we're not entitled brats. Those that want to send us review codes do, and those that don't won't. Of course it has no bearing on any review we generate.

As for "all the bad comments over here", I don't recall any of the editorial team or site staff being involved in that, so I'm not sure why that would influence SMS/BN's decision. I also don't recall anything that broke the site's Acceptable Use Policy, so I'd suggest that everything on here is either fair comment or opinion (which we cannot and will not police) and if that does influence a developer's decision not to send us a review code then it is perhaps better that they do not - because a review will also contain fair comment and opinion...

But being ridiculed for giving a legitimate reason and still not admitting he was wrong for calling it "a joke" or it being "solid gold" proves enough to me...I don't know which planet you grew up on but on Earth that is considered a personal attack.

A personal attack is one which singles the person out for attack. Calling the idea that SMS's marketing effort was stymied by the entire studio taking a holiday three weeks before launch a joke, or comedy gold, is not a personal attack. Calling you a joke for suggesting it would be a personal attack.

I don't see how flagging up something that isn't a personal attack, isn't against GTPlanet's Acceptable Use Policy, and wasn't even posted on GTPlanet, is of any help to anyone.

 

[slthree]

So excuse me for being somewhat repetitive but what i have done does not justify the treatment i got

I understand what you were saying on that other point. I just want you to know that I was not referring to you when I made my comments about the repetitious arguments.

Really?
After all the bad comments over here you were really expecting a review copy?
That really shows how dumb you think SMS are...

Now, THIS is something that I have to weigh in on.

It has often been said that developers will only send early copies of a game to be reviewed to places where they are assured positive reviews. That is a horrible practice and I abhor it.

You are basically here admitting that SMS wouldn't send the copy because they were scared of a bad review? That's extremely disappointing to hear.

I knew the game would lack pit stops and tire wear and race weekends and driver swaps and the myriad of other things that I came to love in PC2. Still, in the end I bought it and I bought the most expensive version to support SMS.

Had I known that they were so spiteful and so deceptive to withhold review copies for fear of a bad review, I would not have purchased the game.

EDIT: there's something I don't understand. Are some of you here employees of a different website or employees of SMS? It appears some of the accusations made indicate that.

 

[Scaff]

I understand what you were saying on that other point. I just want you to know that I was not referring to you when I made my comments about the repetitious arguments.



Now, THIS is something that I have to weigh in on.

It has often been said that developers will only send early copies of a game to be reviewed to places where they are assured positive reviews. That is a horrible practice and I abhor it.

You are basically here admitting that SMS wouldn't send the copy because they were scared of a bad review? That's extremely disappointing to hear.

I knew the game would lack pit stops and tire wear and race weekends and driver swaps and the myriad of other things that I came to love in PC2. Still, in the end I bought it and I bought the most expensive version to support SMS.

Had I known that they were so spiteful and so deceptive to withhold review copies for fear of a bad review, I would not have purchased the game.

EDIT: there's something I don't understand. Are some of you here employees of a different website or employees of SMS? It appears some of the accusations made indicate that.

Two of them are unpaid moderators on the official Project Cars forums, I will leave them to identify themselves if they wish. Not that it’s a big secret, as the user names and avatars are exactly the same on both forums.

 

[FuriousDemon]

I understand what you were saying on that other point. I just want you to know that I was not referring to you when I made my comments about the repetitious arguments.



Now, THIS is something that I have to weigh in on.

It has often been said that developers will only send early copies of a game to be reviewed to places where they are assured positive reviews. That is a horrible practice and I abhor it.

You are basically here admitting that SMS wouldn't send the copy because they were scared of a bad review? That's extremely disappointing to hear.

I knew the game would lack pit stops and tire wear and race weekends and driver swaps and the myriad of other things that I came to love in PC2. Still, in the end I bought it and I bought the most expensive version to support SMS.

Had I known that they were so spiteful and so deceptive to withhold review copies for fear of a bad review, I would not have purchased the game.

EDIT: there's something I don't understand. Are some of you here employees of a different website or employees of SMS? It appears some of the accusations made indicate that.

I don’t think that’s SMS official statement. Just a guess. Anyway, it would be very strange cause some sim racers on YouTube got a copy and they were somewhat negative in their previous opinions of pCARS, so I don’t think it has much to do with that.

 

[Konan]

A personal attack is one which singles the person out for attack. Calling the idea that SMS's marketing effort was stymied by the entire studio taking a holiday three weeks before launch a joke, or comedy gold, is not a personal attack. Calling you a joke for suggesting it would be a personal attack.
.

Are you serious right now?
He didn't single me out?
So him quoting my post and reacting "this is solid gold" wasn't a stab at me?So who was he referring to then?
This is just getting ridiculous...i can understand all the negativity about the game if it's accurate,and i've seen many posts with evidence i can agree with.
but this is just closing ranks...
Let's just destroy the pCARS mods is what it feels like...don't take in to account what they say,because anything they say is wrong...which is wrong in itself.

 

[GTsimms]

The problem here is you have a staff member, who's calling out other people without an apology for being wrong.

Not only they can't accept that they messaged something. I didn't write that well it's basically what you meant. But now you wanted to deny it.

Then it's downgrading other users like they don't have a 🤬 clue what they're talking about. This is a toxicity of the sim community. It's the constant bashing of titles thinking. I need liked and a title HARDCORE SIM RACER. Well, of you think PC3 is purely Arcade. I will be happy playing my Hardcore Arcade title which feels very close to real driving even though the tires may not have wear. Their all games ultimately and have fun. That's what it should be about period.

I will leave it at this one day someone is going to have to swallow their pride. Claiming they have 25 years of experience without understanding a difference of in tires on a sim. It's like the saying the blind leading the blind. I could make a few videos to prove a point which I know that I am correct.

But, after all of these years starting with GT5 here. I am done with .

 

[Konan]

This proves exactly my point....suddenly no response...
I don't care if you ban me,just give me a solid reason why i had no response on my last post...

 

[killerjimbag]

Really?
After all the bad comments over here you were really expecting a review copy?
That really shows how dumb you think SMS are...

Why would they not give one out before all the "bad " comments came out? Seems to me they could have covered their arse doing something logical.

 

[Famine]

Are you serious right now?
He didn't single me out?
So him quoting my post and reacting "this is solid gold" wasn't a stab at me?So who was he referring to then?

He was referring to your comments, not you as a person. This is why it is not a personal attack - it is not an attack on the person.

This is just getting ridiculous...i can understand all the negativity about the game if it's accurate,and i've seen many posts with evidence i can agree with.
but this is just closing ranks...
Let's just destroy the pCARS mods is what it feels like...don't take in to account what they say,because anything they say is wrong...which is wrong in itself.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I don't really care about you or who you are or what you do (or almost anyone else, for that matter). I was simply explaining to you what constitutes a personal attack. It's the difference between addressing someone's points (which is allowed, and encouraged) and addressing someone's character (which is not). I know that people today tend to take opposition to their opinion as an insult to their character, but they're not the same thing - it would be impossible to hold any kind of discussion if contrary opinions were classed as personal attacks and not permitted.

The material you brought up wasn't even posted here originally, so it's hardly within our remit to moderate in any case.

If you feel like that's some kind of enhanced persecution for stuff you do elsewhere, that's up to you. I simply don't have the time, inclination, or motivation to care enough.

Should you wish to discuss the finer points of the AUP and GTPlanet's moderation, please do so via private message with a member of staff.

The problem here is you have a staff member, who's calling out other people without an apology for being wrong.

I'm the only staff member here. I can see a discussion between one person who stated something pretty sweeping and has been perpetually trying to reword it or reinvent what he meant ever since, and another person pointing out why what he said originally was incorrect and why many of the revisions they've made to justify what they meant to say but didn't are also incorrect... with supporting materials.

I'm not sure who needs to issue "an apology for being wrong"; in any case, being wrong is often the start of being right.

I will leave it at this one day someone is going to have to swallow their pride. Claiming they have 25 years of experience without understanding a difference of in tires on a sim. It's like the saying the blind leading the blind. I could make a few videos to prove a point which I know that I am correct.

I am aware of @Scaff's actual work history, and we've worked with and know some of the same people (though I've been on the other side of that particular coin) so I can verify that it is not claimed, but genuine.

I'm not actually sure what you're objecting to, but if you think something is not correct and can make a video to show it, please do. That's how discussion works - and it'd be a much better discussion (and more relevant to the thread) than the one that appears to be ongoing.

 

[Sentry87]

You're speaking for an entire company though in that screen capture..Not a personal attack. He didn't attack you Konan personally, did he? Should have he blurred out your name? would you have felt better then? Though we'd still know it's you.

This is not the official forum where it's just an echo chamber. We have discussions using logic, references, and data to back up our arguments.

 

[killerjimbag]

The problem here is you have a staff member, who's calling out other people without an apology for being wrong.

Not only they can't accept that they messaged something. I didn't write that well it's basically what you meant. But now you wanted to deny it.

Then it's downgrading other users like they don't have a 🤬 clue what they're talking about. This is a toxicity of the sim community. It's the constant bashing of titles thinking. I need liked and a title HARDCORE SIM RACER. Well, of you think PC3 is purely Arcade. I will be happy playing my Hardcore Arcade title which feels very close to real driving even though the tires may not have wear. Their all games ultimately and have fun. That's what it should be about period.

I will leave it at this one day someone is going to have to swallow their pride. Claiming they have 25 years of experience without understanding a difference of in tires on a sim. It's like the saying the blind leading the blind. I could make a few videos to prove a point which I know that I am correct.

But, after all of these years starting with GT5 here. I am done with .

Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out!

 

[PJTierney]

"Just finished another productive day at work, let's see how that thread is doing..."

Totally not getting involved in this, but I do want to clarify one thing.

It has often been said that developers will only send early copies of a game to be reviewed to places where they are assured positive reviews. That is a horrible practice and I abhor it.

Review codes are usually handled by the publisher/distributor and not the developer directly.
Agreed on your opinion by the way, any critique is fine so long as it's fair and factual.

I know (almost) nothing about the Project CARS 3 review process since it's none of my business, but for titles I have worked on (both at Konami and Codemasters) pretty much any reputable outlet gets a code, assuming enough are available (they're not free to generate, especially for console).

Some developers/publishers do maintain blacklists from what I have heard (just Kotaku articles mainly, so it's not exactly an informed comment I'm making here), but normally it's for people involved in notable incidents of disrecpect to staff or some other "naughty thing", and not their actual opinions on any game.






....back on-topic:

• Is Project CARS 3 a "simulator". That will vary depending on who you ask and how they define a "simulator" in the first place.
• Is Project CARS 3 fun to play? Again, varies depending on who you ask, but for me, yes.

End of debate, I'll catch you all in a different thread

 

[ImaRobot]

Weird how easy it is for one side to describe and show proof for exactly what they're saying, but asking that from others seems to be the end of the world for them.

This proves exactly my point....suddenly no response...
I don't care if you ban me,just give me a solid reason why i had no response on my last post...

Suddenly? If you'd actually quote or tag the people you're talking about they'd know you responded and would likely respond quicker. Anyways, it's literally been 30 minutes, that's not exactly a long time.

I will leave it at this one day someone is going to have to swallow their pride. Claiming they have 25 years of experience without understanding a difference of in tires on a sim. It's like the saying the blind leading the blind. I could make a few videos to prove a point which I know that I am correct.

Is this a projection? It looks like a projection. If you can make a few videos to prove it, I'm surprised you literally have done nothing at all so far when asked.

As a side note; I'm really interested in giving the game a go as I've been needing a track-based racer, but I'm not willing to spend $60~ just to try it. Will just wait for it to hit the bargain bin I think.

 

[GTsimms]

Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out!

Perfect example of the toxicity of the community.

 

[killerjimbag]

Perfect example of the toxicity of the community.

Dude your the one creating your own environment. People have been asked to post videos. Non of which I've seen. You work for the company,correct. So of course your not going to post a negative review,because you won't have a job. The game isn't even close to a sim. A shame because they made some stupid mistakes over the years. This one is the dumbest decision I've ever seen.

 

[ImaRobot]

Perfect example of the toxicity of the community.

That's actually just one person, not the whole community. Seems like the community have been pretty civil, in general - that they disagree with you doesn't mean otherwise.

 

[slthree]

The problem here is you have a staff member, who's calling out other people without an apology for being wrong.

Not only they can't accept that they messaged something. I didn't write that well it's basically what you meant. But now you wanted to deny it.

Then it's downgrading other users like they don't have a 🤬 clue what they're talking about. This is a toxicity of the sim community. It's the constant bashing of titles thinking. I need liked and a title HARDCORE SIM RACER. Well, of you think PC3 is purely Arcade. I will be happy playing my Hardcore Arcade title which feels very close to real driving even though the tires may not have wear. Their all games ultimately and have fun. That's what it should be about period.

I will leave it at this one day someone is going to have to swallow their pride. Claiming they have 25 years of experience without understanding a difference of in tires on a sim. It's like the saying the blind leading the blind. I could make a few videos to prove a point which I know that I am correct.

But, after all of these years starting with GT5 here. I am done with .

I don't know anything about history between people or between website or between developers.

I can only speak for myself and I wish you would not leave these forums. It sounds to me like you know a lot about racing games and that's why I come here.

My only hope is that people cool down a little bit.

I believe it was @Famine who made a comment that we're living in a day and age where people can't even disagree anymore.

we disagree with our work mates with our loved ones with our spouse with our friends all the time but it doesn't have to escalate into hate and it's not as if we're drawing lines in the sand that can never be crossed.

I love debate and I love to hear different opinions on any matter but they can be peaceful and they can be without personal attack and they can be without the participants being so thin-skinned that they feel everything is a personal insult.

Goodness gracious, think about the fact that we are all here on this website in these forums?!? That means we all love racing games. We have that in common.

If any of you were at my house and we were sitting by the pool and having a beer or two or maybe a Captain Morgan's and Coke or two or even coffee, I would relish debate on Sim racing titles. but, I would never let it devolve into something ugly, something uncivilized, something that engenders rage.

Do guys ever see how hard it is to get a lobby where you have enough people to have a decent race? If we were on the same side of the fence, even with differing opinions, we should be racing together in lobbies.

Before my father passed away he used to love to repeat the same refrain:

"Make Love, Not war".

Words Matter

EDIT: I myself was involved in a discussion on sim verse not sim with a couple of guys when we were talking about the lack of pit stops and it got a little bit heated and I was not proud of that.

Someone I respect greatly, @IfAndOr calmly and maturely pulled me back a little from those conversations, or at least my tone in those conversations. So, I can understand how things get heated. I'm Not Innocent myself

Any chance everybody shakes hands and resets? The way I see it, we need each other.

 

[gregc]

Dude your the one creating your own environment. People have been asked to post videos. Non of which I've seen. You work for the company,correct. So of course your not going to post a negative review,because you won't have a job. The game isn't even close to a sim. A shame because they made some stupid mistakes over the years. This one is the dumbest decision I've ever seen.

I don't believe he works for the company, he's a mod on the official forum.

@Konan I suspect the reason you're getting no response from @Scaff is his ignore list....

This entire thread appears to have reached this point several hours ago

 

[GTsimms]

Dude your the one creating your own environment. People have been asked to post videos. Non of which I've seen. You work for the company,correct. So of course your not going to post a negative review,because you won't have a job. The game isn't even close to a sim. A shame because they made some stupid mistakes over the years. This one is the dumbest decision I've ever seen.

I don't work for SMS. I don't even really care about being a Mod anymore nor seeing the continued criticism of a company doing an overall good job. I didn't start this whole it was Scaff. But I was just trying to have a positive conversation I wasn't trying to embarrass anyone with a video as soon as I get internet again.

For the other post, it's a lot more than one person.

 

[Konan]

You're speaking for an entire company though in that screen capture..Not a personal attack. He didn't attack you Konan personally, did he? Should have he blurred out your name? would you have felt better then? Though we'd still know it's you.

This is not the official forum where it's just an echo chamber. We have discussions using logic, references, and data to back up our arguments.

This shows exactly how this community is set up....not a personal attack? I was literally quoted! I was literally called out! WTF?
And please...do NOT use the "echo chamber" thing again,i've about had enough with these double standards by now....where is the one i'm talking to? hiding under a rock???

 

[Scaff]

I suspect the reason you're getting no response from @Scaff is his ignore list

That would be exactly the reason, which was quite clearly stated in a post of mine.

 

[ImaRobot]

For the other post, it's a lot more than one person.

Again, the community seems to be largely civil - that they disagree with you or you disagree with them doesn’t mean otherwise.

This shows exactly how this community is set up....not a personal attack? I was literally quoted! I was literally called out! WTF?
And please...do NOT use the "echo chamber" thing again,i've about had enough with these double standards by now....where is the one i'm talking to? hiding under a rock???

You don’t seem to understand what the word attacked means. You were quoted, that’s literally it.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

This thread is more entertaining than the game in question.

 

[Chikane_GTR]

As a side note; I'm really interested in giving the game a go as I've been needing a track-based racer, but I'm not willing to spend $60~ just to try it. Will just wait for it to hit the bargain bin I think.

Yeah if your on ps4 only i would stay clear of this one.

Graphical glitches all over the place.
bugs everywhere
Its crashed on me 5 times now since release.
Ps2 graphics most of the time and no i ain't kidding.

Overall its clear that the ps4 version even on pro got the short end of the stick.

 

[Nacho Libre]

I play the game, I check the forums often, it's the full experience!

 

[Beezer215]

What a blood fart this thread is. Just like this game. Aaaaaaaaaayyyyy - oooooooooohhhhhhhh.

 

[Konan]

You don’t seem to understand what the word attacked means. You were quoted, that’s literally it.

Ha...apparently you have never been in the situation i have been in....and Scaff...you liking the post proves you are following this discussion but again are to less of a man to confront me directly...all i need is an apology...but i guess you are not the man everyone thinks you really are...

 

[ImaRobot]

Ha...apparently you have never been in the situation i have been in....and Scaff...you liking the post proves you are following this discussion but again are to less of a man to confront me directly...all i need is an apology...but i guess you are not the man everyone thinks you really are...

Yes, I've had people disagree with me - That's not an attack. I've also had people literally insult me - that's an actual "attack", not what ever you're pretending this is. You're ignored, you might want to go back and read the handful of times he's stated that. Even if I quote you he can't see your post unless he opts in.

You don't need an apology, you need to move on and let it go. Pretending you're being attacked and playing the victim is only digging your own hole.

Ironically, now you're the only person doing the attacking with that last comment.