Not a SIM

[Scaff]

So in a way, Shift 2 was better in damage simulation, the car could break apart affecting suspension, steering, wheels come off, engine blown from over rev and tire blow out ( but you can still reset the car ). Strange PC3 omit these things that were in Shift 2.

To be honest Shift has one of the best damage simulation of all racing games.
Also one, if not the best upgrading system. Racing modifications in PC3 are a joke. It's way better to just buy a race car since there's no way to convert the car back to street version losing all the street upgrades you have already bought.

Agreed, and having to build up you upgrades to turn a car into a works spec race car was great, also the aero and interior upgrades actually show visually in Shift 2, but not in PC3.

No engine swaps in PC3 either.

 

[Bloodytears]

If questions still remain, I just did a quick lap at Nürburgring 24 under 8 minutes, at autumn night with snow, without major incidents at all, in new 935. If this real, so...

 

[JohnScoonsBeard]

The core temperature resets to optimum every physics cycle. However flash heating of the tread is still possible in the short term so grip does reduce when you abuse the tyres too much. It just recovers quicker and there's no wear to the tyre.

Isn't the price of a full racing mod dependent on what you've already upgraded? I thought it adjusts the cost when you upgrade an individual. I can't get on to test right now.

 

[PJTierney]

Bear in mind that Racing Modification will get cheaper the more you drive a car.

If you're buying a car solely to turn it into a race version you're better off just buying the race version, but if you've been using a road car for quite a few Career Events then getting a cheaper Racing Modification may be a good way to go.

 

[Nacho Libre]

My thrifty way to go is using a car in a lower division and then upgrading it to compete in the next one (e.g. the DB11 from D to C, the Stingray from C to B, etc.), that way I have money (without grinding much) to buy a mandatory car.

 

[gjozracer]

So how does PCARS3 compete against against true arcade racers like this??

8/10 !


or Sim racers such as this

8/10 !

https://www.pushsquare.com/reviews/ps4/wrc_9

when it gets reviews like this

6/10
https://www.pushsquare.com/reviews/ps4/project_cars_3

looks like simple arcadey racers can still hit the mark.....

 

[strela]

So how does PCARS3 compete against against true arcade racers like this??

8/10 !


or Sim racers such as this

8/10 !

https://www.pushsquare.com/reviews/ps4/wrc_9

when it gets reviews like this

6/10
https://www.pushsquare.com/reviews/ps4/project_cars_3

looks like simple arcadey racers can still hit the mark.....

That kind of reviews I hate the most. He praise even the smallest thing in Hotshot racing, but than his pointing out the stingy payout and how cars lack personality? Really?
Judging by those reviews Hotshot is way better than PC3. Yeah, sure.

 

[MagpieRacer]

So how does PCARS3 compete against against true arcade racers like this??

8/10 !


or Sim racers such as this

8/10 !

https://www.pushsquare.com/reviews/ps4/wrc_9

when it gets reviews like this

6/10
https://www.pushsquare.com/reviews/ps4/project_cars_3

looks like simple arcadey racers can still hit the mark.....

Ah yes, hot shots racing, that fabled and much awaited rival to Project Cars 3, Forza and Gran Turismo. This is also the same site that gave Grid a 7/10, GTS a 7/10, PC1 7/10, Assetto Corsa 5/10!. So there's a lot of games Hot Shots Racing is 'better than'.

They gave PC2 an 8, Dirt 4 an 8 and Dirt Rally 2 a 9 for games that are as good as and better than Hot Shots Racing.

 

[T0MMY3688]

So how does PCARS3 compete against against true arcade racers like this??

8/10 !


or Sim racers such as this

8/10 !

https://www.pushsquare.com/reviews/ps4/wrc_9

when it gets reviews like this

6/10
https://www.pushsquare.com/reviews/ps4/project_cars_3

looks like simple arcadey racers can still hit the mark.....

pCARS 3 and Hotshot is 2 very different type of racing games. Even if you consider pCARS 3 being an arcade, it still tries to be as realistic as possible within SMS "fun+sim" region while Hotshot throws realism out the window entirely for the sake of a fun arcade racer.

Hotshot will be more comparable to Inertial Drift that is releasing a day after Hotshot, there is a review on the same site too:
https://www.pushsquare.com/reviews/ps4/inertial_drift

 

[strela]

pCARS 3 and Hotshot is 2 very different type of racing games. Even if you consider pCARS 3 being an arcade, it still tries to be as realistic as possible within SMS "fun+sim" region while Hotshot throws realism out the window entirely for the sake of a fun arcade racer.

This is from their site:
Hotshot Racing: Cracking Arcade Racer Is a Constant Joy
Project Cars 3: A Somewhat Fun Arcade Racer Going Through an Identity Crisis

A very different type of game that is still labeled as arcade racer. And whoever is reading both reviews will immediately understand the difference.

 

[T0MMY3688]

This is from their site:
Hotshot Racing: Cracking Arcade Racer Is a Constant Joy
Project Cars 3: A Somewhat Fun Arcade Racer Going Through an Identity Crisis

A very different type of game that is still labeled as arcade racer. And whoever is reading both reviews will immediately understand the difference.

I missed that title, seems like it only turns up on the thumbnail. The direct link to the review has "Change is good. Or is it?" under the Project CARS 3 Review title.

But even if pCARS 3 is considered an arcade racer it is still vastly different games and degree of "arcadeness" which is not a fair comparison between both games.

 

[Animera]

So I went to look for a Hotshots video and all I can say is, what the hell!?
It's not even in the same ballpark as PCars 3.

 

[oneloops]

So how does PCARS3 compete against against true arcade racers like this??

8/10 !


or Sim racers such as this

8/10 !

https://www.pushsquare.com/reviews/ps4/wrc_9

when it gets reviews like this

6/10
https://www.pushsquare.com/reviews/ps4/project_cars_3

looks like simple arcadey racers can still hit the mark.....

PCARS3 and the majority of sims can be driven like an arcade (like hotshot rancing ).
But most of arcade games can't be driven like a sim, PCARS3 can do it with all aids off abs off and a clean enough driving.

ACC driven like an arcade game is not the most fun, even if it's still fun.

For me the most important value of PCARS3 is the sim side handling, I don't use to like arcade games like GRID for example.

 

[strela]

But even if pCARS 3 is considered an arcade racer it is still vastly different games and degree of "arcadeness" which is not a fair comparison between both games.

That is why putting everything that is not a pure sim into arcade is wrong imo. But still even taking everything in consideration that game cannot be an 8 if you gave others 6 or 5. That game can be at max a 4 or 3. Definitely not an 8. If Hotshots is an 8 than Asphalt or NFS No limits are 10?

 

[MagpieRacer]

I missed that title, seems like it only turns up on the thumbnail. The direct link to the review has "Change is good. Or is it?" under the Project CARS 3 Review title.

But even if pCARS 3 is considered an arcade racer it is still vastly different games and degree of "arcadeness" which is not a fair comparison between both games.

This is the problem with throwing labels like arcade and sim around. Theres just so much more nuance to it than can be described in one word. They're clearly different dtyles of game but the reviewers here just use singular terms to categorise everything.

PCARS3 and the majority of sims can be driven like an arcade (like hotshot rancing ).
But most of arcade games can't be driven like a sim, PCARS3 can do it with all aids off abs off and a clean enough driving.

ACC driven like an arcade game is not the most fun, even if it's still fun.

For me the most important value of PCARS3 is the sim side handling, I don't use to like arcade games like GRID for example.

Oh no this again. . Interesting that you think ACC can be driven like an arcade racer somehow. How does one achieve this impossible feat?

 

[oneloops]

Interesting that you think ACC can be driven like an arcade racer somehow. How does one achieve this impossible feat?

All aids on, stability control to the maximum, damage off and overtaking easily with hits against other cars, blocking to prevent been overtoken, etc

Exterior camera or hood camera ...

It's very easy

 

[MagpieRacer]

All aids on, stability control to the maximum, damage off and overtaking easily with hits against other cars, blocking to prevent been overtoken, etc

Exterior camera or hood camera ...

It's very easy

So turning aids on which the real cars use and changing the camera turns it into an arcade experience? Lower difficulty turns one of the finest racing simulations of this generation into an arcade racer?

You've come out with some wild stuff but this is my new favorite.

 

[fernandito]

All aids on, stability control to the maximum, damage off and overtaking easily with hits against other cars, blocking to prevent been overtoken, etc

Exterior camera or hood camera ...

It's very easy

Have you tried the GT4 cars?, they drive better. You can push them further with realistic assists.

ACC has improved a lot, and also demonstrated UE4 being good enough for racing games, so long you ain't on either 3 screens or vr..

What I struggle to understand is the fact that there's also a lot of crashers in this game too. I mean man what do these guys play this kind of sim for?, jeez you can play other racers for that.

 

[oneloops]

So turning aids on which the real cars use and changing the camera turns it into an arcade experience? Lower difficulty turns one of the finest racing simulations of this generation into an arcade racer?

You've come out with some wild stuff but this is my new favorite.

Yes, but it's not only lower difficulty, it's enabling unreal aids like camera, stability control and damage off.

And if you setup aerodynamics, TC and ABS,to the maximum, it can be driven even more in a arcade way, very difficult to lose control.

Have you tried the GT4 cars?, they drive better. You can push them further with realistic assists.

ACC has improved a lot, and also demonstrated UE4 being good enough for racing games, so long you ain't on either 3 screens or vr..

What I struggle to understand is the fact that there's also a lot of crashers in this game too. I mean man what do these guys play this kind of sim for?, jeez you can play other racers for that.

GT4 not yet for me, I have ACC on console. I love UE4 in ACC it's a great improvement in my opinion from the AC render engine.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Yes, but it's not only lower difficulty, it's enabling unreal aids like camera, stability control and damage off.

And if you setup aerodynamics, TC and ABS,to the maximum, it can be driven even more in a arcade way, very difficult to lose control.

Doesn't make it an arcade racer as the simulation underneath doesn't change whatsoever. Also, the real cars, as in the cars ACC is simulating, all use the driver aids. Aero setup is again, physics based and simulation driven, so no surprises there that a high downforce car will handle 'better'. Cameras aren't an aid, they're a preference that, again, has ZERO influence on the driving simulation.

 

[oneloops]

Doesn't make it an arcade racer as the simulation underneath doesn't change whatsoever. Also, the real cars, as in the cars ACC is simulating, all use the driver aids. Aero setup is again, ohysics and simulation driven, so no surprises there than a high downforce car will handle well. Cameras aren't an aid, they're a preference that, again, has ZERO influence on the driving simulation.

For you those changes keeps the simulation underneath, for me they add arcade overhead.

Real cars don't have damage off, gt3 cars don't have stability control, neither exterior cams.

Hitting everybody without consequences have all the influence on the driving simulation, you can be faster and overtake like no real driver.

And if you increase aerodynamic load you can drive more like an arcade if you want.
ABS and TC to the maximum too, you can go ON/OFF with the throttle and brakes, like in an arcade game.

 

[fernandito]

GT4 not yet for me, I have ACC on console. I love UE4 in ACC it's a great improvement in my opinion from the AC render engine.

ACC physics are better too than the original in my humble opinion, not just the graphics obviously since it's ue4 and all that.

You should play it on PC as soon as you can. The game has improved a lot. I don't wanna get repetitive on that statement, but it is actually true you'll see, and I've never been a fan of ac.

 

[MagpieRacer]

For you those changes keeps the simulation underneath, for me they add arcade overhead.

Real cars don't have damage off, gt3 cars don't have stability control, neither exterior cams.

Hitting everybody without consequences have all the influence on the driving simulation, you can be faster and overtake like no real driver.

And if you increase aerodynamic load you can drive more like an arcade if you want.
ABS and TC to the maximum too, you can go ON/OFF with the throttle and brakes, like in an arcade game.

Still doesn't change the fact its a sim and can never be likened to an arcade game just from changing a few settings. Likewise how you drive a game has no bearing on whether its sim or arcade. As has been proven to you in PC3 and you ignored and argued anyway.

 

[Matt Stephens]

My biggest problem isn’t so much that PC3 has a more arcade handling model catered more towards controller players than wheel players, it’s more the lack of motorsports simulation itself. A few years back I was relatively open and optimistic if PC3 wanted to go in a more accessible direction, but I wasn’t prepared for much a neutered feature set. It baffles me even now that they thought it was a good idea to remove features like pit stops, tyre wear, and even more so just being able to replicate a realistic race weekend format with practice, qualifying and race. Such a shame as the amount of content the Project Cars series has is second to none, huge car lists and track counts giving players the possibility of being able to replicate many different motorsports categories.

The more and more that was revealed about Project Cars 3 the more I was put off and decided not to get the game. I must admit I’m glad I did avoid it after seeing how poor the game looks on base consoles. Definitely appears to be a case of quantity over quality in terms of a polished game. I’m sure some of the issues will be patched but I think it’s done them no favours by releasing such an ugly looking game in terms of graphical glitches and bugs. Alongside the fact that their Fast and Furious game also bombed I wouldn’t be surprised if this spells the end of Project Cars and Slightly Mad Studios. I guess all we can hope is that Codemasters see potential in creating a more sim focussed game and including many of the features that were mindlessly stripped from PC3, and hopefully this time they will give the game the polish and QC that SMS has certainly been lacking as of late. I really wanted to give this game a chance but in the state it’s in and with the core features that it lacks, I wouldn’t even contemplate grabbing it, even if it were free.

 

[oneloops]

Still doesn't change the fact its a sim and can never be likened to an arcade game just from changing a few settings. Likewise how you drive a game has no bearing on whether its sim or arcade. As has been proven to you in PC3 and you ignored and argued anyway.

That's only your opinion. For ACC and for PC3.

A few settings that change a lot
Stability control in ACC is very powerful as an aid for begginers and for casual gamers.

iRacing has brake assistance and throttle assitance as driving aids.

I'm not saying that they are not sims because of that, but you can drive them in an arcade way with aids and no damage.

 

[Chikane_GTR]

.I must admit I’m glad I did avoid it after seeing how poor the game looks on base consoles.

Its not just the base consoles this game looks like 🤬 even on the pro a more powerful system.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Its not just the base consoles this game looks like 🤬 even on the pro a more powerful system.

Especially if you sit a foot away from a 55 inch screen. That's enough to make any game look rough.

If you are at a optimal distance for your screen size then, while the game as a whole has a few graphical glitches and won't win best visuals awards, it certainly isn't 🤬 on the powerful pro/X consoles.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Snip ..

I'm not saying that they are not sims because of that, but you can drive them in unrealistic way with aids and no damage.

I think it's like a slider level, with enabling unrealistic aids ( also depends on how it is implemented ,- limiting/smoothing player input side or internal physics calculation side, ie reducing effects of the forces affecting the car like inertia, g force, heat, wear ) and disabling certain part of calculated simulation physics like damage so you can abuse the engine/drivetrain like maniac, you are effectively reducing the fidelity or accuracy level of the simulation. This applies to all simulation based games, another example Pcars3, the tire is simplified, damage disabled, drivetrain simplified so you can downshift from high to low gear in an instant over revving the engine-locking up the tires with no consequences, unrealistic braking distance, persistent driving assists, just to name a few from what I read here. There's also a chance that the physics rate calculation may also be reduced to reflect the simplified physics, saving CPU cycle. Pcars 1 and 2 have 600Hz physics rate which IMHO barely above minimum of 500Hz ( which is also the minimum IRL for reasonably accurate damper telemetry with acceptable tolerances of error ) 1000 or 2000Hz should be the standard for simulation games.

 

[T0MMY3688]

This is the problem with throwing labels like arcade and sim around. Theres just so much more nuance to it than can be described in one word. They're clearly different dtyles of game but the reviewers here just use singular terms to categorise everything.

That is why putting everything that is not a pure sim into arcade is wrong imo.

It is always a bad idea to just have a sim and arcade category since many games do fall in between those 2 ends. Also even in arcade alone, games like Burnout and NFS in the PS2 era are very different arcade games too.

But still even taking everything in consideration that game cannot be an 8 if you gave others 6 or 5. That game can be at max a 4 or 3. Definitely not an 8. If Hotshots is an 8 than Asphalt or NFS No limits are 10?

I've played both Asphalt 9 and NFS No Limits, those were awful with their 30 second long races and overly repetive tracks. Hotshot may looks simplistic but it is likely to have a much better gameplay than those 2 mobile games. Simple and fun arcade games like this has largely been missing for this whole generation, likely the reason most critics seem to gave the game a rather positive score. Can't wait to try it out on game pass tomorrow.

 

[strela]

Can't wait to try it out on game pass tomorrow.

I'm happy for you. Hopefully you will give your opinion once you try it. I'm really curious if you'll find it an 8/10 game too.