Not a SIM

[oneloops]

So I play ACC in cockpit view with no assists but I guess its an arcade now because I use a controller and not a wheel... sigh... if only I could have a sim...

You have a sim driven in an "arcade-like" way with a controller.

Don't forget adjustable FOV, and driving view too - like driving from the bumper view or from behind the car. That must mean its an arcade game too. Again, it's beco abundantly clear that you're pressing very hard to twist that truth.


No he can't, that's physically impossible. You feel literally nothing. Again, trying to deflect.


Oh so glad you agree that aids don't change physics. What I don't get is how you can say that and then disagree that in the same sentence.


He didn't get angry about that. It's you twisting the truth that's irritating. Not only that but you've done absolutely nothing to try to even prove it. Either you can't because it's not true or you just don't know how to prove it.

I agree with FOV and bumper view. Not twisting any truth, they are unreal things...

Feels are inside the mind, you can feel whatever you want, and different people can feel different things about the same stimulus.

QUOTE "Oh so glad you agree that aids don't change physics."
But you are assisted so you can drive with ON/OFF inputs and big mistakes without consequences, like in an arcade game.

QUOTE "WHAT?! Real life is an arcade? Wow.."
There are people who play "like" in real life, and people who do real things "like" in a game.
People can play in real life too.

Anyone can test the same combos than scaff and me and give their opinions, scaff didn't prove anything with the '66 Mustang, he only said his opinion and I've given mine, and he gets angry because they disagree.

 

[ImaRobot]

I agree with FOV and bumper view. Not twisting any truth, they are unreal things...

Yes, you literally are. You're saying that the game isn't a simulation anymore because of things that do little to change the actual simulation of a game. You're trying to change a whole definition to fit what you're saying. When someone talks about simulation and arcade, they're talking about physics and how the cars react and drive compared to real life. That is quite literally twisting the truth.

Feels are inside the mind, you can feel all you want, and different people can feel different things about the same stimulus.

If you can feel the g-forces and movement through a video, then you might want to get your head checked - or that might be Vertigo. You literally feel nothing. I can understand an extremely experienced driver might understand what the driver is feeling the visual interpretation, but he is still quite literally feeling nothing from a video. Lets not pretend that's what either of us is, though.

"Oh so glad you agree that aids don't change physics." But you are assisted so you can drive with ON/OFF inputs and big mistakes without consequences, like in an arcade game.

repeating it doesn't make it sound any smarter. That's a pretty asinine thing to even attempt to argue.

Anyone can test the same combos than scaff and me and give their opinions, scaff didn't prove anyothing with the '66 Mustang, he only said his opinion and I've given mine, and he gets angry because they disagree.

It's not the disagreeing - it's your outright inaccurate and asinine viewpoints, the twisting to fit an exact narrative, and the persistent pestering while simultaneously demonstrating a lack of understand what is/isn't simulation.

 

[oneloops]

Yes, you literally are. You're saying that the game isn't a simulation anymore because of things that do little to change the actual simulation of a game.

.

I've never said that. You can turn off those aids or choose the most realistic way to play it.

If you can feel the g-forces and movement through a video, then you might want to get your head checked.

.

You can't feel braking g-forces and straight acceleration g-forces in a standard sim neither.
Neither the same lateral forces in your whole body (even in a motor-shaking cockpit)

 

[killerjimbag]

You have a sim drived in an "arcade-like" way with a controller.



I agree with FOV and bumper view. Not twisting any truth, they are unreal things...

Feels are inside the mind, you can feel whatever you want, and different people can feel different things about the same stimulus.

QUOTE "Oh so glad you agree that aids don't change physics."
But you are assisted so you can drive with ON/OFF inputs and big mistakes without consequences, like in an arcade game.

QUOTE "WHAT?! Real life is an arcade? Wow.."
There are people who play "like" in real life, and people who do real things "like" in a game.
People can play in real life too.

Anyone can test the same combos than scaff and me and give their opinions, scaff didn't prove anything with the '66 Mustang, he only said his opinion and I've given mine, and he gets angry because they disagree.

Having driven many cars from the 60's and owning one in real life,the 65 Impala in my profile pic. There isn't any video game or sim that has yet to replicate how the cars truly handle in "real life" That is a fact! Period,end stop. Standard drum brakes,standard steering,3 speed standard on the column. No power steering, no power brakes,no TCS,no ABS no nothing.If you have never had the experience of driving one at real speed,stop posting about how it should feel. You have absolutely no comprehension or facts to how the car should feel. I have played pretty much every "Sim" ever made. From Grand Prix Legends to IRacing. Nobody has made a 60's car handle like real life 60's cars. Their terrible in every aspect of driving. I'd have you 🤬 your pants if I took you for a rip around a track with my 65.

 

[MagpieRacer]

You are assisted so you can drive with ON/OFF inputs and big mistakes without consequences, like in an arcade game.

"Edit: Tried the wife's car, turns out that electronic steering assistance. Even more arcade. WHAT IS LIFE"
You prefer driving with less assistances, like me

Its called sarcasm. To highlight the absolute 🤬 you're talking.

 

[oneloops]

Its called sarcasm. To highlight the absolute 🤬 you're talking.

Yes, I know, I was playing with your sarcasm. That's why my smiley was there

Having driven many cars from the 60's and owning one in real life,the 65 Impala in my profile pic. There isn't any video game or sim that has yet to replicate how the cars truly handle in "real life" That is a fact! Period,end stop. Standard drum brakes,standard steering,3 speed standard on the column. No power steering, no power brakes,no TCS,no ABS no nothing.If you have never had the experience of driving one at real speed,stop posting about how it should feel. You have absolutely no comprehension or facts to how the car should feel. I have played pretty much every "Sim" ever made. From Grand Prix Legends to IRacing. Nobody has made a 60's car handle like real life 60's cars. Their terrible in every aspect of driving. I'd have you 🤬 your pants if I took you for a rip around a track with my 65.

The '66 Mustang test was comparing between PCARS2 and PCARS3 with scaff's test, not comparing to the real car that's why quotation marks were there about ""that basic physics dictates"" said by him, not by me.

 

[killerjimbag]

Yes, I know, I was playing with your sarcasm That's why my smiley is there



The '66 Mustang test was comparing between PCARS2 and PCARS3 with scaff's test, not comparing to the real car that's why quotation marks were there about ""that basic physics dictates"" said by him, not by me.

Again you are missing the point as usual. Take the damn cars,turn off everything. If you want the car to feel real turn off everything. Then do the same test,with hood,bonet whatever camera you want. Tell me they handle the same. I'm waiting.

 

[oneloops]

Again you are missing the point as usual. Take the damn cars,turn off everything. If you want the car to feel real turn off everything. Then do the same test,with hood,bonet whatever camera you want. Tell me they handle the same. I'm waiting.

We were talking about the unreal stability control on GT3 cars that handles not the same compared when it's turned on and turned off.

 

[SlowGrayAudi]

The whole point is it is just fun. You can now do perfect laps in full on drift mode, one handed, while drinking a beer :-)) What is even funnier is the game scores you on how well you drove the last corner too. It's hilarious :-))

ACC is a true sim, this is not. When you are serious drive ACC, when you just want to play around or show off to friends or even drive drunk, play PCARS3 and have a laugh.

Oh and don't forget to carry a can of insect spray - this game is full of bugs ;-)

That's hilarious, ill probably pick it up then for black friday.

Thanks for the insight, greatly appreciated sir

 

[Boston77]

Pointless to argue/show actual evidence to a rock. A rock doesn’t care.
Roll that rock down the hill and forget about it.
Valiant effort though gents.

 

[killerjimbag]

We were talking about the unreal stability control on GT3 cars that handles not the same compared when it's turned on and turned off.

Did you read what I posted? Pretty simple test. I'm waiting.

 

[oneloops]

Did you read what I posted? Pretty simple test. I'm waiting.

The handling is the same with different cameras but the simulation of driving a car is more unreal when you drive with an unreal camera.
You can simulate driving a car in an more realistic way, with the cockpit camera (VR ideally), or in a more arcade way with an unreal camera
... and so on with other unreal aids

You choose the way you want to play a sim or an arcade game.

 

[killerjimbag]

The handling is the same with different cameras but the simulation of driving a car is more unreal when you drive with an unreal camera.
You can simulate driving a car in an more realistic way, with the cockpit camera (VR ideally), or in a more arcade way with an unreal camera
... and so on with other unreal aids

You choose the way you want to play a sim or an arcade game.

Explain to me,how changing the camera is an aid or makes it arcade?It is changing the camera angle,not adding or deleting an aid. Clearly you,not a camera angle makes it arcade.I don't know if I'm typing in a language you don't comprehend. Truly unbelievable.

 

[Scaff]

So I play ACC in cockpit view with no assists but I guess its an arcade now because I use a controller and not a wheel... sigh... if only I could have a sim...

This must be arcade as well

 

[oneloops]

Explain to me,how changing the camera is an aid? It is changing the camera angle,not adding or deleting an aid. I don't know if I'm typing in a language you don't comprehend. Truly unbelievable.

Changing the camera aids you to have a larger view and to see better the distances among other cars and yours (right and left at the same time), also it helps begginers to see the trajectory, what's going on some cars ahead in order to avoid accidents for example, even more when it's raining.

Also you can see if a rear wheel is blocking.

If you find it unbelievable you should test it !

 

[oneloops]

This must be arcade as well

It's a real car driven in an arcade way.

 

[killerjimbag]

It's a real car driven in an arcade way.

Maybe he should have sat in the back seat. You know change the camera angle.

 

[oneloops]

Maybe he should have sat in the back seat. You know change the camera angle.

Or over the roof, or over the hood.

 

[BFIFE22]

So my takeaway is that if I play NFS in cockpit view, with a wheel, no TC, and damage, then I’m playing a sim?

But if I dare change the camera angle to 3rd person in ACC I’m playing an arcade game?

Checks out

 

[oneloops]

So my takeaway is that if I play NFS in cockpit view, with a wheel, no TC, and damage, then I’m playing a sim?

But if I dare change the camera angle to 3rd person in ACC I’m playing an arcade game?

Checks out

You drive it in a more sim way in the first case and you drive it in a more arcade way with unreal aids in the second case.

 

[ImaRobot]

What a boatload of nonsense. Haven't seen something quite this ridiculous since all the FM vs GT posts years back with GT5/GT6 - and that's saying something. You either don't want to admit it, or you're just clueless. Labeling it as an opinion doesn't negate it from being wrong.

 

[oneloops]

What a boatload of nonsense. Haven't seen something quite this ridiculous since all the FM vs GT posts years back with GT5/GT6. You either don't want to admit it, or you're just clueless. Labeling it as an opinion doesn't negate it from being wrong.

We are talking about aids, stability control, handling, among several games in a thread that's called "not a sim" and you think that other opinion than yours is clueless, thank you for your opinion.

 

[ImaRobot]

We are talking about aids, stability control, handling, among several games in a thread that's called "not a sim" and you think that other opinion than yours is clueless, thank you for your opinion.

I wasn't asking what this thread entails - or are you confused? I also didn't say any other opinion besides mine is clueless, I said yours is. Either way, what ever makes you feel better about the things you're talking about, that you've demonstrated that you just aren't that knowledgeable about. 👍

 

[oneloops]

I wasn't asking what this thread entails - or are you confused? I also didn't say any other opinion besides mine is clueless, I said yours is. Either way, what ever makes you feel better about the things you're talking about, that you've demonstrated that you just aren't that knowledgeable about. 👍

I wasn't answering anything neither. Maybe you were confused changing claims like "the game isn't a simulation anymore"

My opinion is the opposite of yours. I don't say your opinion is clueless because of that. I don't agree and that's all

 

[Bloodytears]

@killerjimbag Interesting take, I have recently drove a Ford Mustang 65, the most cheapest one, and I would say it was similar to PC2, with only too soft suspension and dumpers. Still there is no way to replicate steering wheel rotation of this cars on pad, when I first tried almost spin out because forgot that instead of small input, I need literally turn it like a full rotation back. But breaks worked good, ironically have stopped at crosswalk to let an old lady cross a street, but eventually was too fast on breaks, that a guy on SUV behind nearly locked his wheels behind me and slightly lost control under breaking.

 

[r_outsider]

There's no but in real life. The answer is no, it doesn’t. End.

Either that or I have an arcade car with traction control, ESP, ABS and power steering.

I really need to buy a sim car....

Edit: Tried the wife's car, turns out that electronic steering assistance. Even more arcade. WHAT IS LIFE

EPAS is the work of the devil... Pretty sure any sim racer would lambast most modern cars for their terrible FFB. I haven't driven all the cars but there's exactly one manufacturer with cars I've driven who seems to have got it right. Other than that, you want steering feel, get something old with an old school hydraulic or non power steering rack.

 

[T0MMY3688]

You drive it in a more sim way in the first case and you drive it in a more arcade way with unreal aids in the second case.

Camera view doesn't change how the car felt, NFS in cockpit view still plays the same on the same brake to drift handling. At best it just looks more sim visually but not the controls or physics of the game.

NFS HP2010 in cockpit view sure doesn't make it feel more sim in any way, nice wheel rotation animation sure makes it looks more realistic:

 

[TT92]

So the stability control aka God mode is similar to SRF in GT ? Bad AI, grinding for money, sounds more like GT.

Yep :-) Got it in one. The differences are (I was trying not directly compare but since you asked) Pcars AI is 100x worse than GTS, the grinding is about the same except you can't rubber band PCARS and Stability control is about 10 times stronger than SRF. SRF was an aid that helped "take the edge off" loose driving where Stability control in PCARS is like God Mode in a FPS as it takes you to an all new higher level. Also it should be banned for online events just as SRF was in GTS

So start with the idea this arcade game is catering for hand controllers anyway then add god mode and makes them just insane. It's insane with a wheel too BUT what a hell of lot of fun :-))

I can criticise this game and pick on it until the cows come home BUT the fun factor is there for me. It would be nice if SMS did reproduced the AI from Pcars2 because that was very good and you could actually race with them. PCars3 is an AI <insert swear words of choice here> catastrophe and SMS should hang their collective heads in shame!

 

[oneloops]

Camera view doesn't change how the car felt, NFS in cockpit view still plays the same on the same brake to drift handling. At best it just looks more sim visually but not the controls or physics of the game.

NFS HP2010 in cockpit view sure doesn't make it feel more sim in any way, nice wheel rotation animation sure makes it looks more realistic:

I agree that camera doesn't change the same brake to drift system and the handling.

That game for example you can drive it at legal speeds and simulate kind of a road trip, the same with GTA V, because both exagerate the arcade handling when you go at higher speeds and with big rough inputs.

GTA V can be useful for example at legal speeds (with its limits of course, as a complement, only as a basic training) to simulate driving on traffic for someone who want to pass the traffic license, with street crosses, traffic lights, managing the traffic and the steering. And with the interior camera this simulation is better.

 

[T0MMY3688]

I agree that camera doesn't change the same brake to drift handling.

That game for example you can drive it at legal speeds and simulate kind of a road trip, the same with GTA V, because both exagerate the arcade handling when you go at higher speeds and with big rough inputs.

GTA V can be useful for example at legal speeds (with its limits of course, as a complement, only as a basic training) to simulate driving on traffic for someone who want to pass the traffic license, with street crosses, traffic lights, managing the traffic and the steering. And with the interior camera this simulation is better.

On that point, cockpit cams just improves the immersion of it but it doesnt change the realism or arcade aspect of the game features. Going on chase cam you still have the same street crosses, traffic light and traffic to manage. It is definitely going to be easier to see the surrounding in a chase cam but the traffic sim doesn't stops or change in a different camera view.