Not being able to remove engine/weight stages = DUMB!!!!

[GrimSinn]

Dude you're just too much. I'll agree that a restore to stock option would be acceptable IMO. However buying stock blocks or OEM replacement parts IMO is lame.

We can argue back and forth about this is realistic in the game and that isn't, the game has some stuff right other stuff not so right, all you do is justify your need to have it just the way you want it with BS arguments, example you're car is repaired magical for free. So because of this they should ignore all reality in the game? No ( I'm glad cause the grind babies would be crying even more) take that as a "game" moment and be thankful for any realism the game does have, many other games if your not satisfied.

If there was a buy OEM parts store ( lol ) then you could get a stock block after boring out your original. I got no issue with you re-using you stock pistons they weren't machined out of man spec like a bored out block is. So bolt on's are fine and even cams etc that was replaced but when the OEM part is machined modified out of man spec, C'est la vie. You cannot buy a bare block from the manufacture they will NOT sell it, they will sell you a full motor. Your option IRL for replacing your block and head in most cases is the junk yard. If you were in the field you would know this... Hell the 500hp SC 5.4 v8 ford sells for close to 18 grand in a crate but they will never sell you a bare block. Maybe a buy original motor option but that just falls under the restore to original option already suggested.

I say what's real should reflect and or inspire all aspects of the game to get as close as reasonably possible, where you say because something is not as realistic as it could be or should be all realism is out the window.

I disagree, and still I'm firm on my OP however you love to get the last word and seem to participate in manny arguments of opinion. So as I'm sure your going to stick the last word in here, I'll let you have it (lol) I got some stuff to do on my car (f-ing coil pack on my VR6) I'm thinking a MSD conversion might be best. Laterz.

 

[Devedander]

Dude you're just too much. I'll agree that a restore to stock option would be acceptable IMO. However buying stock blocks or OEM replacement parts IMO is lame.

That wraps it up right there.

all you do is justify your need to have it just the way you want it with BS arguments,

You are talking about yourself again right? I never said anything was impossible that totally was possible or said that no one does something only becauase I don't or wouldn't. The only BS arguments in this thread have come from those determined to prove for some reason PD did it right via whatever raionlization they could come up with.

So because of this they should ignore all reality in the game?

You don't seem to be good at logic. "Don't use "IRL" to defend a position in a game that clearly dodges "IRL" rules all the time" is nowhere near the same as "ditch anything IRL altogether".

So as I'm sure your going to stick the last word in here, I'll let you have it (lol)

Thanks!

 

[ElSecundo]

Well, somebody posted somewhere that it would take something like 150 million credits in the game to purchase all of the cars.

Everyone in this game has the potential to purchase over 1,000 cars, many of them in the millions. It's safe to say that everybody in this game has the potential to have a garage like Jay Leno's, if not better.

I'm pretty sure that Jay Leno could have any car restored to stock condition, even if parts had to be fabricated from scratch. Restoring cars back to stock is a common occurrence, and 'original' cars bring much more on the open market. This is incentive to detune cars, and it's a very strong incentive in real life.

So, with the expectation that we'll have the money to maintain a garage like Jay Leno's, being able to bring a car back to its stock state is simply a non-issue. It might cost money (lots of it), but it can ALWAYS be done.

Yes, there are things that can be done to an engine that can't be undone -- to that specific engine. But this doesn't prevent engine replacement, and since we're expected to be able to buy a fleet of cars worth over 150 million, don't you think we can afford to replace the motor on an '83 Mitsubishi?

 

[Tornado]

You cannot buy a bare block from the manufacture they will NOT sell it, they will sell you a full motor.

You can't?

Chrysler will also happily sell you a block for practically every car that they have made for the past 25 years so long as they can get one (except Mercedes engines), in addition to the typical performance engines.

 

[GrimSinn]

So let's test you out, cause I bet you cant get me a stock Chrysler bare block from a random Chrysler car.

Example the Sebring, get me a pricing for a Sebring block that has not been salvaged. (Ohh and a 98 VW VR6, I need a VR6 block for real) Or a in game car like the Crossfire (wait that's an AMG engine, lol) but even if there are exceptions to the general rule ( when replacing the block it's usually a salvaged block) it doesn't disprove anything.

Either way I've already supported the "return to stock" as a blanket option. The point of the matter is IMO being able to add and remove the boring of a block like you can add and remove the performance air filter is unrealistic & I don't want in a game striving for realism. PD understands this and this is precisely why the game is the way it is, wether you like it or not.

 

[WhitePhoenix]

GrimSinn... you're from Mtl?

by the way, I totally agree, basing arguments on IRL factors when the realisme clearly is not constant from one aspect to the other is a bit useless

But I did call to get a short block 2JZ and Toyota would not sell me one. I could have a fully functionnal 2JZ-GTE for 30 000... well that's thrice the price of the used car it's going in. Pretty tough getting only a stock block for any car. A salvaged one would cost about 2000.


it's the same "approximate realism" all around the game, probably the same reason many cars, maxed out, produce much less power than real life dyno queens

 

[snowgt]

I know that it probably sometimes is tedious that you can't reverse some of the tunes. However, I like the idea that some things can't be reversed and you cannot blindly mod your car and then restore it with the touch of a button. That's the equivalent of actions that don't have any consequences. I like the fact that you first have to think, if you really want to change something central to a car's behaviour. And yes, you can argue all night about which tunes should or should not be reversible, but that's not the point. If you want two cars in one, buy a second one. Nobody keeps you from buying another model and not do those changes.

My position might have something to do with the fact though, that I like to keep cars stock or just lightly modified, because I like to keep the cars' character. But that's just me. Or, not just me, reading these posts.

Well, somebody posted somewhere that it would take something like 150 million credits in the game to purchase all of the cars.

The total price-tag comes closer to 485 million credits.

 

[ElSecundo]

I know that it probably sometimes is tedious that you can't reverse some of the tunes. However, I like the idea that some things can't be reversed and you cannot blindly mod your car and then restore it with the touch of a button. That's the equivalent of actions that don't have any consequences. I like the fact that you first have to think, if you really want to change something central to a car's behaviour. And yes, you can argue all night about which tunes should or should not be reversible, but that's not the point. If you want two cars in one, buy a second one. Nobody keeps you from buying another model and not do those changes.

My position might have something to do with the fact though, that I like to keep cars stock or just lightly modified, because I like to keep the cars' character. But that's just me. Or, not just me, reading these posts.



The total price-tag comes closer to 485 million credits.

Thanks, I really wasn't sure what the number was, but it's a huge amount.
I agree, I like that there are consequences for doing what is essentially 'that which can't be undone'. So when you do one of these things (stage 3 weight reduction, stage 3 tuning, etc), you can only undo them with chassis/engine replacement. The consequence should be very high cost, relative to the value of the car.

Actually, now that I think about it, that's a place that their leveling system could have been interesting. Unlocking tuning options when you reach certain levels, like undoing stage 3 tuning.

 

[Tornado]

So let's test you out, cause I bet you cant get me a stock Chrysler bare block from a random Chrysler car.

Example the Sebring, get me a pricing for a Sebring block that has not been salvaged.

I'm not going waste 40 minutes of my life to drive to the nearest Chrysler dealer in order to get a price quote on a part that I have no intention of buying just to please someone on the internet who won't quit arguing even when he specifically said that he going to.

(Ohh and a 98 VW VR6, I need a VR6 block for real)

I was unaware that Chrysler sold a car at one point equipped with a VR6 engine.

But please feel free to take up any future similar retorts with the shop section of the Mopar website, which freely advertises that they sell replacement engine blocks for Chrysler vehicles.

but even if there are exceptions to the general rule ( when replacing the block it's usually a salvaged block) it doesn't disprove anything.

Not only have you just invalidated your entire argument ("IRL you can't just replace the block!" followed by "You can replace the block, but it is usually salvaged" means that you can replace the block, because no one was ever arguing that you should be able to replace the block in GT5 because all manufacturers will sell you a replacement block in real life), but I showed you a direct link to where you can buy new bare replacement blocks for basically every V8 engine Chevrolet has ever made. That disproves a whole hell of a lot.

 

[ucwepn]

In real life cars that have undergone allot of modification for racing like weight stripped out, carpets/insulation/sound deadening removed, roll cage fitted, racing clutch fitted etc are usually too heavily modified to be returned to roadcar duty and tend to live the rest of their life as racecars until they are destroyed due to accident damage or metal fatigue and reshelled until the majority of the components are too far gone for it to be viable to reshell again, it would possibly be cheaper and definately easier to buy a second car in the game and in real life, there are of course exceptions like some exotic expensive sportscars.

Having said that, light mods like removing the back seat to save 15-30kg and others like the spare wheel removal should be available in the game and be reversable. They could make mods reversable though its not real life, sometimes i think PD believe its real life and sometimes they believe its fantasy they need to focus.

 

[WhitePhoenix]

ucwepn: that last sentence seems to sum it up quite well: PD's reality assesment seems to be a bit irregular

another thing that might explain so many differences: PD's is japanese, and tuning on that island is quite different from what we have in america (or europe for that matter) simply because of some regulations about cars.

modern racing games (except GT) mostly have options for engine swaps. But PD is still dodging that issue. But in Japan, it's almost uneard of, except for pure race cars, simply because it's impossible to keep around a car that has a different motor. (there are some exeptions, but mostly, it is not done).

I'm sure PD did a lot of ressearch about race cars with all sorts of racing sanctionning body, and they probably do their research among japanese tuners, who are building great street cars for client. It's a matter of availability of information

 

[sideshowfrost]

I'm sure someone must have suggested it already but: buy another car? Any cars I like I buy one and tune it all the way, and another which is kept stock.

 

[GrimSinn]

modern racing games (except GT) mostly have options for engine swaps. But PD is still dodging that issue. But in Japan, it's almost uneard of, except for pure race cars, simply because it's impossible to keep around a car that has a different motor. (there are some exeptions, but mostly, it is not done).

Where do you get your info from? I see many Japanese cars with swaps done (I've even seen them put a V8 in a G35, Smokey you da man) they also get the good gas.

 

[GT4.75]

I'm not going waste 40 minutes of my life to drive to the nearest Chrysler dealer in order to get a price quote on a part that I have no intention of buying just to please someone on the internet who won't quit arguing even when he specifically said that he going to.

Unless this is Chrysler-specific, I could waste a few work minutes and whip you up a quote on ANY US-based Nissan block. No GTRs or anything, just US models.

Just the block. Nothing else.

2004 Nissan 350Z. Cylinder block PN. 11000-CG00F

About 1800 US dollars.

 

[GrimSinn]

I'm not going waste 40 minutes of my life to drive to the nearest Chrysler dealer in order to get a price quote on a part that I have no intention of buying just to please someone on the internet who won't quit arguing even when he specifically said that he going to.

That's because you won't get one, you just talk ALOT of crap but don't back any of it up. Just because they sell blocks (mostly crate engines except for those few exceptions and cars inside the warranty period) doesn't mean you can get a new un-salvaged block for any car, the fact of the matter is you cannot.

As I already asked, get a price on a new Sebring block, they won't have it. So your argument is BS unless you can prove otherwise, but that's not gonna happen cause you can't.

I was unaware that Chrysler sold a car at one point equipped with a VR6 engine.

They weren't but Chrysler is not the only auto man so even if hypothetically speaking you could get a brand spanking new block for a Sebring (impossible) or any Chrysler (or any brand for that matter) car it would only be an exception to the rule however we don't live in a video game world and you just cannot buy new bare blocks for every car, especially for cars outside their warranty. That is not my opinion but a fact, again wether you like it or not. Unless you can source new blocks for more than 50% of the cars in the game what's the point?

Sure new blocks for many cars can be bought (350z for sure, but that wont be forever) but not most cars featured in GT5.

Your obviously are not in the field, we can spot each other easily amongst the peeps pretending with a fast google finger.

I rebuild engines IRL and have sourced a few salvaged blocks (recently did a motor swap on a Volvo V70) original motor had 16 bent valves and it was cheaper and easier to swap in a salvaged engine, they wouldn't guaranty the turbo so I used the one off the original engine, it runs great.

I also did a full tear down/rebuild of a Chrysler 2.2

I drive a 91 GTi with a 98 VR6 engine swap.

What experience do you speak from?

But please feel free to take up any future similar retorts with the shop section of the Mopar website, which freely advertises that they sell replacement engine blocks for Chrysler vehicles.

Went there, the won't sell me a Sebring block that's not salvaged, sooooo your just talking out your ass.

Not only have you just invalidated your entire argument ("IRL you can't just replace the block!" followed by "You can replace the block, but it is usually salvaged" means that you can replace the block, because no one was ever arguing that you should be able to replace the block in GT5 because all manufacturers will sell you a replacement block in real life)

I never said you cant change the block, you can, just 90% of the time it's with a salvaged block not a new one. Salvaged blocks are a junk yard buy. The thought of buying parts at junk yards in GT5 is laughably ridiculous.

but I showed you a direct link to where you can buy new bare replacement blocks for basically every V8 engine Chevrolet has ever made. That disproves a whole hell of a lot.

No you didn't, you posted where you think I can get one but the reality is not so.

Go there yourself and prove you can get a new, never used Sebring bare block.

You won't though, but I'll have a chuckle at whatever excuse you have for not being able to back your claims.

Either way speaking on cars in GT5 for every bare block shown to be available I can show 2 that are not.

I comes back to my original point. Because we got too far off the original topic. The question was why all parts cannot be added and removed like air filters or other bolts on's.

I don't think you should be able to add/remove the boring of a block as you can add/remove a racing air filter, because your permanently modifying the block when boring it out. PD agrees with me so I feel good already

 

[shawtyoner]

PD really need to overhaul their entire tuning methodology. Way to many inconsistencies, some things are based on real life, others aren't. GT6 really needs to step it up in this department, not for my sake, but for the series in general. A lot of GT players love tuning, and expect the same realism put into the physics, applied to the tuning and modification portion of the game. Either make it super realistic, where everything has a cause and effect once applied, or remember that this is just a game and allow people to undo decisions that they have made. I for one am on the ropes about this, I am not a hardcore tuner, I enjoy stock road cars, but on occasion I would like to revert some upgrades that I have applied, such as weight reduction. Let's hope PD put more effort into this on the next installment, I doubt they will make any major amendments at this point in time.

 

[GT4.75]

I could call Dodge and get a price and PN for a Sebring block, too. I won't though, cuz they're buttholes over there.

1986 Nissan Pulsar 1.6L PN 11010-33M10 1437.03 US dollars.

Is that one available to purchase from Nissan? No, because it's a PULSAR. A 300ZX Turbo from the same generation though? Definately. Get 'em while they last, though- because they're not making any more.

It's just that people don't buy them, because they're flippin' 1800 bucks!!!

You say one cannot find a new block for a Sebring. Do you expect car companies to manufacture blocks for every car they've ever made...forever? It's a Sebring, man. My ex's mother drove a drop-top version. She also had 6 inch long fake nails....years ago. Enough said.

A ten-year cutoff sounds about right to me, for most cars.

 

[Khoin]

I'd like to be able to undo/redo anything and everything I do to my cars in GT5... is that "reallistic"? No, probably not, but meh, it'd make the game more fun, and in the end that's what counts to me.

 

[GrimSinn]

A ten-year cutoff sounds about right to me, for most cars.

Yeah that about the life of the warranty ( I think I mentioned that) it's crazy because most cars in GT5 are over 10 years old. So yeah, my point is you cant get them for every car, thanks.

PD used proper logic in it's application and restrictions as to what can and cannot be quickly undone.

 

[WhitePhoenix]

Where do you get your info from? I see many Japanese cars with swaps done (I've even seen them put a V8 in a G35, Smokey you da man) they also get the good gas.

simple answer: swaps are made for racing or show, not street.

GT seems to be about modified street car mostly (well, less so than in older ones anyway)

for my info source: i'm relatively close to two "JDM importers", one in my home city, one in japan, who's scouting for cars. There's a reason my we could (until last year, damned new Quebec law) importe such a large quantity of used hot japanese cars at such low prices. It's a bit complex and might be better explained by a japanese motorist than me, but simply put, as soon as a car doesn't meet OEM spec, it needs to be "repaired" or discarded. So it's a big no no for engine swap, unless you can swap back every couple of years, or you can disguise it (which is the only valid reason for a 1.5JZ hybrid and some other swaps like that)

 

[GrimSinn]

simple answer: swaps are made for racing or show, not street.

GT seems to be about modified street car mostly (well, less so than in older ones anyway)

for my info source: i'm relatively close to two "JDM importers", one in my home city, one in japan, who's scouting for cars. There's a reason my we could (until last year, damned new Quebec law) importe such a large quantity of used hot japanese cars at such low prices. It's a bit complex and might be better explained by a japanese motorist than me, but simply put, as soon as a car doesn't meet OEM spec, it needs to be "repaired" or discarded. So it's a big no no for engine swap, unless you can swap back every couple of years, or you can disguise it (which is the only valid reason for a 1.5JZ hybrid and some other swaps like that)

I'm also in MTL and I'm close with the owners of Automotion, they imported many of the GTR's you see around the 514. They also participated in the Canadian drift scene (not any more though) I've looked over quite a few of the GTRs as they arrive. No no swap done there ( no need) but a few of them came over CLEARLY not stock.

Also drifting was born in the hill of japan, those were modified cars. I guess I Just fail to see your reasoning. As far as I know modifying your car is not illegal in japan and therefore just being outside man spec means nothing. Any info confirming this claim?

I don't see it, but I'm in Canada.

 

[GT4.75]

I just read through, didn't see any mention of warranties. You did consistently mention that you can't get new blocks from anywhere, which is incorrect.

Also,

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/Darton/Engine/Cylinder_Sleeves/Kit/4782

Guess what those things do. Yup, same block, different cylinder bore sizing. So there isn't any 'putting metal shavings back in' stuff, just what we like to call 'sleeves.'

I've also seen people weld aluminum back into a head, but that's usually because someone messed up porting it in the first place.

I don't even care if I can bring my car back to stock in the game, but I had to chime in when someone makes unsubstantiated claims.

 

[GrimSinn]

Sleeving a block is further modifying it regardless if it's to man spec not to forget Sleeving requires additional parts ( the sleeves). I also dont care that you didn't see where I wrote life of the warranty and none of that matters my point is you can't get them for every car featured in the game, as I said. Unless you can my point is correct, wether you like it or not.

Original point is the same.

OP says PD is dumb because you can't undo and reapply a bored engine block as you can an air filter. I feel they are keeping it as real as possible or feel they need to ( it's their game) and think you can't undo ( not fix or bring back to stock or modify back to man spec with additional parts) permanent alterations of parts used.

I would love to have engine swaps in GT, they are real, I drive a car with one, however I'm not going to call them dumb for not implementing them...

 

[GT4.75]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I definately don't care if you mentioned anything you've said so far, either.

You just sound like a back-yard mechanic spouting knowledge because you managed to change your coils.

And, god forbid, people might be believing you on this forum.

 

[GrimSinn]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I definately don't care if you mentioned anything you've said so far, either.

You just sound like a back-yard mechanic spouting knowledge because you managed to change your coils.

And, god forbid, people might be believing you on this forum.

Naw actually been in Mechanics school... But also done a bunch of BY tinkering too. Did a engine swap using trees to hoist up the engine lol.

Either way that's your opinion, your entitled to it, but I don't have to care I do this **** in real life not just a game.

 

[ElSecundo]

So if the button said "return the car to stock condition", would it make an ounce of difference if that meant sleeving the cylinders or replacing the block? Both are realistic, both are done commonly, it just depends on what's available for the car. But it can be done, it just takes money.

So, a button that said "return car to stock condition" would make perfect sense. Who cares if it's a part off the shelves or a part stolen from another Mercedes 190? If it can be returned to its original condition, it can be returned to its original condition. What else is there to say?

 

[o9lifted]

I think Engine Stage may include bore to the engine stroke. how can you remove that? etc etc lol

 

[GrimSinn]

So if the button said "return the car to stock condition", would it make an ounce of difference if that meant sleeving the cylinders or replacing the block? Both are realistic, both are done commonly, it just depends on what's available for the car. But it can be done, it just takes money.

So, a button that said "return car to stock condition" would make perfect sense. Who cares if it's a part off the shelves or a part stolen from another Mercedes 190? If it can be returned to its original condition, it can be returned to its original condition. What else is there to say?

Yup that is done (not back and forth but let's just move on) never said it wasn't. Don't feel it should be in the game, just like I don't feel spark plugs and other lil things don't need to be in the game (like racing brakes when there has never been any brake fade in GT) would be interesting if they implemented brake fade lol but that's just my opinion, it's PD's game and up to them, but I'm glad they finally removed the purchase option, while it would be visually nice it don't do much without fade.

If the option to return to stock would be in the game it would be them simply reverting the coding of the car back to stock. IMO There would be no justification of how they do so by them.

Either way That pretty much sums it up. That I don't mind, I personally would find it useless, I just buy a new one in the game. I still don't agree PD is dumb for not having the option or the ability to add and remove permanent modifications like you can add/remove an air filter. That is simple logic, wether or not you like it.

 

[WhitePhoenix]

Did a engine swap using trees to hoist up the engine lol.

and skate boards to move it around?
and used a 91 civic hatch as cargo truck to get the V6 home?


it's legal to have a modified car in japan, but it's a PITA to get it around the frequent mandatory inspection, which a swaped car won't pass

don't sweat it, we're on the same side in this discussion.





about getting new engines

I also have from reliable sources (3 insiders in 3 different toyota dealerships) that Toyota won't produce any engine older than (approx) 10 years out of production.

so, as someone said earlier about nissan motors: get it while you can because if they still have some left, it won't be forever

 

[SuperShouden]

But you can't really remove the Engine tuning in real life. If a shop wants that in real life, they buy a new engine.