Not Lewis Hamilton...

K

Knightsabre13

8
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Trying not to be a winger, but After racing Sims, and GT, PC, F1 etc for many years, I regard myself as a reasonable sim racer, however I am at a loss as to understand why GTS, (Polyphony) has made GR3, At least, so bloody hard to control the cars on many circuits. Lift Off overseer, Oversteer in General, track limit penalties that are beyond fair. Cars spin out even when not under power if they even so much as look at piece of grass or some curbing.This is a GAME, not a full blown sim, I am not Lewis Hamilton. The game has got worse since the new tyre model. I want to drive Sim, like, but not full blown sim, I want to race without the fear of destroying my SR, and DR, when it's not even my fault. I have had to rebuild this at least five or six times now. I have invested £500 on a rig, so am fairly serious, but the top 24 stars are probably in to thousands on their rigs, which makes it very difficult to even get a look at the top ten online time trials. I used to have a go at those that punt off other driver, but I think I know why they do it now, it's because the skill level to attain respectable times and rank is just too high, so why bother trying to drive properly!!, I know many will disagree, especially those that use a controller. Which although not terribly smooth, responds to inputs very quickly, unlike a wheel Which is more progressive, Traction Control is all or nothing and frankly is just frustratingly inconsistent.
I would like to hear what others think, has GTS just gone too far into Sim territory, or am I just crap.
 
I use a wheel and I had your problems spinning out etc but after a few months of playing I rarely spin anymore. The Gr.3 cars aren't that hard to drive in my opinion as you get to grips with them. The game doesn't expect you to be a Lewis but you bought a 'Simulator' so if you can't learn to controll a car and tame it just don't drive it. If you touch the grass going over 150mph of course it's going to unsettle a car but if your not willing to put in the effort don't bash a game just because you can't stay on track. Paying out £500 for a rig isn't going to make you a good driver overnight. The work PD have done with this game is amazing and as a wheel user I strongly disagree with your point.
 
Fair enough...however I do not preach that a rig makes a good driver, I believe that this tread would be controversial, so am ready to hear any and all points of view.
 
I don’t get how your say you’ve raced sims for years, including Project CARS, and then claim GT has become too much of a sim....

GT is an arcade game compared to PCARS. If you could drive in PCARS, jumping into GT is like picking up NFS or GTA, the physics and tire model are a yoke (not to mention no weather, no damage, no LiveTrack 2.0, etc). There’s no concern for tire temps, brake temps, engine temps, or engine wear. Gran Turismo is a simcade, not a sim.

If you wouldn’t have mentioned PCARS, I’d say your entitled to the opinion. But saying you’ve played PCARS, and then saying GT is too much of a sim, that’s just nonsense.
 
Agree , Pcars is much more harder than GTsport....even with a wheel...

DynamicGT
I use a wheel and I had your problems spinning out etc but after a few months of playing I rarely spin anymore. The Gr.3 cars aren't that hard to drive in my opinion as you get to grips with them. The game doesn't expect you to be a Lewis but you bought a 'Simulator' so if you can't learn to controll a car and tame it just don't drive it. If you touch the grass going over 150mph of course it's going to unsettle a car but if your not willing to put in the effort don't bash a game just because you can't stay on track. Paying out £500 for a rig isn't going to make you a good driver overnight. The work PD have done with this game is amazing and as a wheel user I strongly disagree with your point.
Click to expand...
Have u played Asseto Corsa ?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Knightsabre13
Trying not to be a winger, but After racing Sims, and GT, PC, F1 etc for many years, I regard myself as a reasonable sim racer, however I am at a loss as to understand why GTS, (Polyphony) has made GR3, At least, so bloody hard to control the cars on many circuits. Lift Off overseer, Oversteer in General, track limit penalties that are beyond fair. Cars spin out even when not under power if they even so much as look at piece of grass or some curbing.This is a GAME, not a full blown sim, I am not Lewis Hamilton. The game has got worse since the new tyre model. I want to drive Sim, like, but not full blown sim, I want to race without the fear of destroying my SR, and DR, when it's not even my fault. I have had to rebuild this at least five or six times now. I have invested £500 on a rig, so am fairly serious, but the top 24 stars are probably in to thousands on their rigs, which makes it very difficult to even get a look at the top ten online time trials. I used to have a go at those that punt off other driver, but I think I know why they do it now, it's because the skill level to attain respectable times and rank is just too high, so why bother trying to drive properly!!, I know many will disagree, especially those that use a controller. Which although not terribly smooth, responds to inputs very quickly, unlike a wheel Which is more progressive, Traction Control is all or nothing and frankly is just frustratingly inconsistent.
I would like to hear what others think, has GTS just gone too far into Sim territory, or am I just crap.
Click to expand...

The setup you have as far as wheels are concerned isn't very important to how fast you can go. Probably my best result ever where I qualified 7th worldwide for a GT Academy TT I was using a DFGT attached to an old rusty one of these that leaned side to side when I steered too quickly and my pedals would gradually move out of reach;

R0614700-01.jpg

So a £500 rig is more than enough to compete with the top guys, better wheels just make the game more enjoyable if anything.
 
A+/S ranked drivers are just on another level talent wise. You may be able to give them a race on certain car/track combinations. But what separates the top drivers from the rest is speed & consistency in all situations.
 
Knightsabre13
Trying not to be a winger, but After racing Sims, and GT, PC, F1 etc for many years, I regard myself as a reasonable sim racer, however I am at a loss as to understand why GTS, (Polyphony) has made GR3, At least, so bloody hard to control the cars on many circuits. Lift Off overseer, Oversteer in General, track limit penalties that are beyond fair. Cars spin out even when not under power if they even so much as look at piece of grass or some curbing.This is a GAME, not a full blown sim, I am not Lewis Hamilton. The game has got worse since the new tyre model. I want to drive Sim, like, but not full blown sim, I want to race without the fear of destroying my SR, and DR, when it's not even my fault. I have had to rebuild this at least five or six times now. I have invested £500 on a rig, so am fairly serious, but the top 24 stars are probably in to thousands on their rigs, which makes it very difficult to even get a look at the top ten online time trials. I used to have a go at those that punt off other driver, but I think I know why they do it now, it's because the skill level to attain respectable times and rank is just too high, so why bother trying to drive properly!!, I know many will disagree, especially those that use a controller. Which although not terribly smooth, responds to inputs very quickly, unlike a wheel Which is more progressive, Traction Control is all or nothing and frankly is just frustratingly inconsistent.
I would like to hear what others think, has GTS just gone too far into Sim territory, or am I just crap.
Click to expand...
the top guy in the Americas region uses an ordinary wooden chair to sit on. He has a YouTube channel if you want to see, name is NicoTF I think
 
Knightsabre13
I have invested £500 on a rig, so am fairly serious, but the top 24 stars are probably in to thousands on their rigs, which makes it very difficult to even get a look at the top ten online time trials.
Click to expand...

LOL the majority of them spend about 300- 500 quid probably, and there is even a couple who use a Dualshock 4 controller but yeah sure blame money for you being bad lol
 
Every game is different and you’ll need time to get used to how they play. So just give it some time.. with the experience you say you have it shouldn’t take too long...

Try different cars, see how they handle, pick the ones you enjoy driving most. If nothing works, move on to something else.
 
Knightsabre13
Trying not to be a winger, but After racing Sims, and GT, PC, F1 etc for many years, I regard myself as a reasonable sim racer, however I am at a loss as to understand why GTS, (Polyphony) has made GR3, At least, so bloody hard to control the cars on many circuits. Lift Off overseer, Oversteer in General, track limit penalties that are beyond fair. Cars spin out even when not under power if they even so much as look at piece of grass or some curbing.This is a GAME, not a full blown sim, I am not Lewis Hamilton. The game has got worse since the new tyre model. I want to drive Sim, like, but not full blown sim, I want to race without the fear of destroying my SR, and DR, when it's not even my fault. I have had to rebuild this at least five or six times now. I have invested £500 on a rig, so am fairly serious, but the top 24 stars are probably in to thousands on their rigs, which makes it very difficult to even get a look at the top ten online time trials. I used to have a go at those that punt off other driver, but I think I know why they do it now, it's because the skill level to attain respectable times and rank is just too high, so why bother trying to drive properly!!, I know many will disagree, especially those that use a controller. Which although not terribly smooth, responds to inputs very quickly, unlike a wheel Which is more progressive, Traction Control is all or nothing and frankly is just frustratingly inconsistent.
I would like to hear what others think, has GTS just gone too far into Sim territory, or am I just crap.
Click to expand...

First off, I totally agree with you on the subject of track limits and the rating system. They definitely need work in that area. And the traction control does indeed suck in GTS, so my advice is not to use IT at all. It'll take some adjustment but you'll get a better feel for the limit without it. In fact, if you want to reach the higher ranks then you must do away with all the aids eventually.
Now, the cost of your rig should not play a factor. At £500, your setup should be on the higher end for sure. I'm using a lawn chair and a cheap computer desk with my T300 and I do alright, as do many others. And as someone already mentioned, the fastest guy in the western hemisphere uses a sponsored TGT with a rig similar to mine. There is no need to spend big bucks to be competitive here, I assure you.
GT is not the most challenging racing game out there, but it definitely isn't the easiest. Yes there's an element of challenge and difficulty but that's why it's so rewarding when you get it right. Keep putting in seat time and I'm sure you'll get the hang of it.

Best of luck:cheers:
 
Last edited:
I don't think GT Sport's physics are too hard because it's trying to be a sim, but rather the tyre model was so poor that ironically it ended up being harder than the reality it was trying to simulate. Even though the tyre model has been improved imho, there are still some aberrations that make certain aspects of driving harder than it should be. No sim is perfect, & they all suffer in one area or another.

The first Project CARS was notoriously bad on the limit, with not enough progressive slip, & this was acknowledged by SMS in the second game where they tried to make it better. In the opinion of some they succeeded, in the opinion of others not so much. Assetto Corsa had issues with physics on the edge of grip as well, the cars tended to float away & were too hard to regain control of compared to reality (at least in my experience of the console version anyway). Then there were the Elises in AC that had no lift off oversteer, didn't rotate at all, & suffered with chronic understeer; very much unlike their real world counterparts.

We all have different driving styles, & we all have our preferred sim (I'm sure yours is the best one & that you need to tell me why my opinions in this post are wrong & yours are right *cough* the sacred cow effect *cough*). And, the more we play any particular sim, the better we get at it, & the less problems in the physics will bother us. I ended up getting used to PC1's crazy ass physics on the limit & quite enjoyed the thrill of racing on that knife edge, even though it was unrealistically hard.

All of these differences are made even more apparent when we quickly switch from one game to another, the glaring inconsistencies between them become even more apparent due to comparison. And, I had a rude awakening in 2009 when I got to drive a couple of real race cars in reality at a track day; that experience was not 100% the same as any sim I've ever driven (all of the above included).

If we can find a sim or game that ticks most of the boxes for us, then that's great, & we should stick with it. But no sim is ever going to please all of the people all of the time.
 
Last edited:
No OP, what you need to learn is how to counter understeer with a bit of trailbraking, use lift oversteer to your advantage to make the car turn faster it is all about race line, consistency and learning the car characteristics and balancing the weight transfer to keep it stable and turning as fast as possible.
 
Knightsabre13
After racing Sims, and GT, PC, F1 etc for many years, I regard myself as a reasonable sim racer
Click to expand...

After checking your stats, I have to question your definition of 'reasonable sim racer'. I'm pretty sure your definition is different to mine so you really need to look at yourself before looking for things to blame.

Find time to practise more and get some consistency under your belt. If you're still way off, look for tips on youtube. Plenty of good track guides out there.

I don't know if subliminal messaging is involved here but watch a lot of the tops driver's videos as well, especially the practise as watching the correct line lap after lap soon sinks in. I watch kie25, super gt, nicor, tidgney, z28 and eerieissss regularly and wish there were more. Great practise with zero effort.

Have a look at @EERIEISSSS youtube channel too. Starts the story using a pad with all assists turned on, to a first wheel and the struggle to learn it and a quest for A+ rating. He's now a solid A rating and still improving.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqPNuJUqqn9QBZiq1QEW_UA
 
Knightsabre13
I want to race without the fear of destroying my SR, and DR
Click to expand...
So you want to race other people without fearing that they might be better than you?
I have invested £500 on a rig, so am fairly serious, but the top 24 stars are probably in to thousands on their rigs
Click to expand...
I am not a top 24 superstar, but I am positive this is not true.

This is not a relatively difficult game to play. I have only ever experienced lift-off oversteer on MRs, so just avoid using them. Track limits are fine, maybe apart from at Le Mans.
 
Krypton78
Why do you insult him? You can crap what he wrote, but its not correct to say he himself is crap.

I also don't agree to OP, for me he's just a disappointed player.

But I would never write to somebody "you're crap" when he didn't majorily attack me before.
Click to expand...

*cough*

Knightsabre13
...
Snip
...
I would like to hear what others think, has GTS just gone too far into Sim territory, or am I just crap.
Click to expand...

baldgye
I think, you're just crap.
Click to expand...

This is not an issue which requires tissues.
 
Knightsabre13
Trying not to be a winger, but After racing Sims, and GT, PC, F1 etc for many years, I regard myself as a reasonable sim racer, however I am at a loss as to understand why GTS, (Polyphony) has made GR3, At least, so bloody hard to control the cars on many circuits. Lift Off overseer, Oversteer in General, track limit penalties that are beyond fair. Cars spin out even when not under power if they even so much as look at piece of grass or some curbing.This is a GAME, not a full blown sim, I am not Lewis Hamilton. The game has got worse since the new tyre model. I want to drive Sim, like, but not full blown sim, I want to race without the fear of destroying my SR, and DR, when it's not even my fault. I have had to rebuild this at least five or six times now. I have invested £500 on a rig, so am fairly serious, but the top 24 stars are probably in to thousands on their rigs, which makes it very difficult to even get a look at the top ten online time trials. I used to have a go at those that punt off other driver, but I think I know why they do it now, it's because the skill level to attain respectable times and rank is just too high, so why bother trying to drive properly!!, I know many will disagree, especially those that use a controller. Which although not terribly smooth, responds to inputs very quickly, unlike a wheel Which is more progressive, Traction Control is all or nothing and frankly is just frustratingly inconsistent.
I would like to hear what others think, has GTS just gone too far into Sim territory, or am I just crap.
Click to expand...

Git Gud.
 
Saying expensive rigs make for faster players is a bit like saying an expensive camera will suddenly make someone a better photographer. It's the person behind the tool that's good, not the tool itself.

GT isn't a full-blown sim — it's not even the simmiest driving game on consoles. Like any racing game, while there's some crossover between real-world teachings, the truly fast people work around the game's physics engine. They all have quirks and exploits, and the best players — in any genre — use those to their advantage.

I was able to qualify in the top 40 in Canada for a GT Sport event earlier this year on a controller (shock! horror!). The reason I didn't use a wheel was all to do with the then hassle of setting up my rig. You're right in the sense that a controller is lacking in subtlety compared to a wheel, but it's possible to work within those limitations and still be quite fast. The biggest issue is probably the throttle/brake modulation, and if I were to hazard a guess, that's why PD has implemented the bizarre non-linear approach.
 
Sigh..................... the OP is in the majority of the player base and this is why will continue to have "chase the rabbit", smooth fantasy tracks, cartoon cars and a glorified arcade game.

There is no need to abuse him or cast dispersions on his character as he is in effect the GT franchise pin up star. This is what the game has been tailored to appeal to and why all the campaign stuff is so easy. i would even bet the AI is based on his (assumed?) driving style, dive bomb into corners, miss the apex and be very slow out so you have no idea where the car will be placed on corner exit so you can achieve a clean overtake :-(

I wont even get into how hardware manufacturers love this type of guy to too. He needs to improve so he needs better gear. Obviously a hydraulic load cell brake pedal, a direct drive wheel, a better cockpit, perhaps some racing shoes etc, etc ;-) Oh and Ferrari racing wheel, especially if it has lots of LEDs for the rev counter ;-)
 
TT92
Sigh..................... the OP is in the majority of the player base and this is why will continue to have "chase the rabbit", smooth fantasy tracks, cartoon cars and a glorified arcade game.

There is no need to abuse him or cast dispersions on his character as he is in effect the GT franchise pin up star. This is what the game has been tailored to appeal to and why all the campaign stuff is so easy. i would even bet the AI is based on his (assumed?) driving style, dive bomb into corners, miss the apex and be very slow out so you have no idea where the car will be placed on corner exit so you can achieve a clean overtake :-(

I wont even get into how hardware manufacturers love this type of guy to too. He needs to improve so he needs better gear. Obviously a hydraulic load cell brake pedal, a direct drive wheel, a better cockpit, perhaps some racing shoes etc, etc ;-) Oh and Ferrari racing wheel, especially if it has lots of LEDs for the rev counter ;-)
Click to expand...

Touché
 
Krypton78
Why do you insult him? You can crap what he wrote, but its not correct to say he himself is crap.

I also don't agree to OP, for me he's just a disappointed player.

But I would never write to somebody "you're crap" when he didn't majorily attack me before.
Click to expand...
I mean, how do I put this lightly...
Is he not? No offense, I'm not trying to insult OP but, maybe he needs to reconsider his definition of a "reasonable sim racer"?
 

Latest Posts

Back