Not Lewis Hamilton...

[Shottah072]

Damn great lap!
Even with the extra DRS usage you get in Sport you are in a (visually) launch spec W08 vs an almost finished W08 with the fastest/best qualifier alive!
I think that shows that, either you should be along side Lewis in F1, or perhaps the W08 is both too easy to drive fast or too fast in the game

Obviously the car is super hard to drive and Toto needs to give me call

 

[Jess_Pinkman]

Obviously the car is super hard to drive and Toto needs to give me call

Honestly, there is a high likelyhood that the best egamers have more talent than Hamilton (but the talents involved do overlap but are not exactly the same).

To be a "champion", is to be the best compared to others.

For real racing, how many people (within the same generation) did have a shot at racing competitively ? a few thousands at best maybe ? so we are looking at the top talented drivers of a few thousand (and most of them were there in the first place because they had the money)

For sim racing, a top driver is top compared to probably dozens, even hundred(s) of thousands.

 

[baldgye]

Honestly, there is a high likelyhood that the best egamers have more talent than Hamilton

I think the only person who even comes close to having even the same level of natural ability as Hamilton in esports is Flash

 

[Shottah072]

Honestly, there is a high likelyhood that the best egamers have more talent than Hamilton (but the talents involved do overlap but are not exactly the same).

To be a "champion", is to be the best compared to others.

For real racing, how many people (within the same generation) did have a shot at racing competitively ? a few thousands at best maybe ? so we are looking at the top talented drivers of a few thousand (and most of them were there in the first place because they had the money)

For sim racing, a top driver is top compared to probably dozens, even hundred(s) of thousands.

Haha i dont know about that. Though i get what your saying about talent pool size i also think there are some real good talents in real racing who also been doing karts since very young. Also a sim racer theoretically can have unlimited practice where as in real life time is limited, and its easier to find the limit if you dont have to worry about crashing.

But since i got into comparing to Lewis here is a funny coincedence. I have finished exactly the same amount of races in GT as Lewis total F1 race count.

Lewis Hamilton:
220 races
67 victories
77 poles
38 fast laps

Me:
220 races
44 victories
58 poles
48 fast laps

Not bad considering in GT we run equal spec cars.

Toto if your reading this, whats up man ?

 

[DJShadesUK]

(no DRS in GTS).

There is, and I have bad news for anyone thinking they're matching/besting a Lewis Hamilton lap time; In GTS the DRS is auto opening and will do so any time the front wheels are straight and you're on the throttle (don't believe me? Use chase cam and watch the rear wing). The Merc in GTS has an unfair advantage over its real-world counterpart (under racing conditions).

 

[Spurgy 777]

I think the only person who even comes close to having even the same level of natural ability as Hamilton in esports is Flash

If you're talking about esports in general I wouldn't be surprised if there were quite a few people with more "natural talent" than Hamilton, even in sim racing as esports is a lot more accessible that F1 which should make it more competitive and harder to be the best. But I put natural talent in quotation marks because it's not exactly something that is measurable.

 

[baldgye]

If you're talking about esports in general I wouldn't be surprised if there were quite a few people with more "natural talent" than Hamilton, even in sim racing as esports is a lot more accessible that F1 which should make it more competitive and harder to be the best. But I put natural talent in quotation marks because it's not exactly something that is measurable.

Indeed, but given that Hamilton is one of the best drivers the sport has ever seen, I think it's a little silly to suggest his ability and talent is on the level of a mid-level top pro-gamer (especially as some pro-drivers do partake in iRacing etc).

While accessibility is an issue for motor-sports, if there really was someone as exceptional within 'Sim' Racing, they'd be a pro-driver through programs like the GT Academy

 

[dabz343]

Lewis Hamilton:
220 races
67 victories
77 poles
38 fast laps

Me:
220 races
44 victories
58 poles
48 fast laps

Not bad considering in GT we run equal spec cars.

Fun comparison, but if considering strength of field...sorry to burst your bubble ;o

 

[Spurgy 777]

Indeed, but given that Hamilton is one of the best drivers the sport has ever seen, I think it's a little silly to suggest his ability and talent is on the level of a mid-level top pro-gamer (especially as some pro-drivers do partake in iRacing etc).

I never said it was on the level of a "mid-level pro-gamer", I was talking about the best gamers in the world having similar natural talent to the best F1 drivers and possibly more due to the potentially larger talent pool.

While accessibility is an issue for motor-sports,

That's an understatement if ever I saw one, to get sponsorship you're looking at needing at least £60,000-100,000 per year making it inaccessible for the vast majority of the population.

if there really was someone as exceptional within 'Sim' Racing, they'd be a pro-driver through programs like the GT Academy

Not exactly relevant to what I was saying because I wasn't suggesting that the best sim racers had as much talent driving real cars as F1 drivers. I was talking about natural talent in sim racing which doesn't exactly apply to real life racing. Also, programs like GT Academy are very rare and far from ideal at determining natural talent in real life racing. Someone could have far more natural talent at real life racing than Hamilton but if they only get the opportunity to start racing when they're 18 it's unlikely that they are ever going to be fast enough because really you need to start much much younger.

 

[dabz343]

I have bad news for anyone thinking they're matching/besting a Lewis Hamilton lap time

Why be so sour at a community member sharing some fun? Game vs real life, let's see, how accurate a comparison could that be?

Thanks for the info about DRS, I'll check later.

 

[Shottah072]

There is, and I have bad news for anyone thinking they're matching/besting a Lewis Hamilton lap time; In GTS the DRS is auto opening and will do so any time the front wheels are straight and you're on the throttle (don't believe me? Use chase cam and watch the rear wing). The Merc in GTS has an unfair advantage over its real-world counterpart (under racing conditions).

I know that but on the same time i also think it is a bit underpowered wit 899hp compared to the real car in Q3 mode. At least for Suzuka it still matched up this way.

 

[Ofuscor]

If you look back at the last f1 championships it is quite obvious that Hamilton had the best car. The only true competition he has is his teammate and the ferraris. That is like a 4 man championship. No doubt he is a talented driver but I wouldn't call him one of the best in history.

 

[golfer07840]

There is, and I have bad news for anyone thinking they're matching/besting a Lewis Hamilton lap time; In GTS the DRS is auto opening and will do so any time the front wheels are straight and you're on the throttle (don't believe me? Use chase cam and watch the rear wing). The Merc in GTS has an unfair advantage over its real-world counterpart (under racing conditions).

Does the DRS actually work? Or does it open up just to look good?

In other words, the wing opens, but does it actually have any affect on the car?

If you're talking about esports in general I wouldn't be surprised if there were quite a few people with more "natural talent" than Hamilton, even in sim racing as esports is a lot more accessible that F1 which should make it more competitive and harder to be the best. But I put natural talent in quotation marks because it's not exactly something that is measurable.

You are all reminding me of what I hear every weekend on a golf course. "if I never got married and had kids, I could have been a PGA Tour pro". Sure you could have.

 

[Spurgy 777]

You are all reminding me of what I hear every weekend on a golf course. "if I never got married and had kids, I could have been a PGA Tour pro". Sure you could have.

Do you actually know anything about getting into racing IRL? Or the transferable skills between sim racing and real life racing? Or that I'm not even talking about sim racing drivers being just as capable at real life racing?

 

[golfer07840]

Do you actually know anything about getting into racing IRL? Or the transferable skills between sim racing and real life racing? Or that I'm not even talking about sim racing drivers being just as capable at real life racing?

I know it takes a lot of money. Something Hamilton didn't have.

I apologize if I bruised your ego.

 

[baldgye]

I never said it was on the level of a "mid-level pro-gamer", I was talking about the best gamers in the world having similar natural talent to the best F1 drivers and possibly more due to the potentially larger talent pool.


That's an understatement if ever I saw one, to get sponsorship you're looking at needing at least £60,000-100,000 per year making it inaccessible for the vast majority of the population.


Not exactly relevant to what I was saying because I wasn't suggesting that the best sim racers had as much talent driving real cars as F1 drivers. I was talking about natural talent in sim racing which doesn't exactly apply to real life racing. Also, programs like GT Academy are very rare and far from ideal at determining natural talent in real life racing. Someone could have far more natural talent at real life racing than Hamilton but if they only get the opportunity to start racing when they're 18 it's unlikely that they are ever going to be fast enough because really you need to start much much younger.

Ehh...

I agree with you but I was liking it back to my post and why I linked Flash.
But yeah, given how hard it is to measure talent I think it’s a stretch to say that even top pro-gamers would be on the same level as ‘the’ best driver.

Accessibility is hard, but to me talent is something that’s nurtured with experience and practice. But yeah... going back to my original post haha I think maybe the W08 is too easy to drive in Sport

 

[Strax]

I used to have a go at those that punt off other driver, but I think I know why they do it now, it's because the skill level to attain respectable times and rank is just too high, so why bother trying to drive properly!!

Then just go play something else, instead of punting other drivers and ruining their racing. Nobody forces anyone to play GTS in Sport Mode...feel the need to punt at every corner? GT League is there.

I cannot stand any kind of defense of the serial punters. They just need to uninstall, or play single player.

 

[dabz343]

If you're talking about esports in general I wouldn't be surprised if there were quite a few people with more "natural talent" than Hamilton

If you want to have a coherent discussion on comparing natural talent of Hamilton vs esports drivers, then I would like for you to consider the notion of bravery. These guys have a talent of driving on the edge while risking everything they have. When was the last time esports had an accepted fatality rate?

 

[Spurgy 777]

I know it takes a lot of money. Something Hamilton didn't have.

Eh, he won the British cadet class karting championship when he was 10, I don't think he was that short of money (considering that top drivers today can easily spend £60,000 per year to be competitive in national karting series)

I apologize if I bruised your ego.

You didn't bruise my ego, I just don't know why someone would jump into a conversation, making a dig at the people already posting, with no knowledge of experience about the topic. It's a bit like me having a completely uniformed opinion about what is or isn't difficult in becoming a professional golf player.

Accessibility is hard, but to me talent is something that’s nurtured with experience and practice.

That's exactly why it's not very accessible, the cost of practice is very high even at lower levels yet it's so important for getting anywhere in motorsport.

But yeah... going back to my original post haha I think maybe the W08 is too easy to drive in Sport

I haven't driven it yet, but you're probably right.

If you want to have a coherent discussion on comparing natural talent of Hamilton vs esports drivers, then I would like for you to consider the notion of bravery. These guys have a talent of driving on the edge while risking everything they have. When was the last time esports had an accepted fatality rate?

View attachment 758095
View attachment 758096

I would consider bravery and talent to be two separate things and judging someone's ability at something based on how likely they are to be killed isn't exactly fair. Bravery is also a lot less of a factor in real life racing nowadays than it was in the past.

 

[baldgye]

Eh, he won the British cadet class karting championship when he was 10, I don't think he was that short of money (considering that top drivers today can easily spend £60,000 per year to be competitive in national karting series)

To be fair, while Lewis wasn't exactly poverty stricken, he also wasn't from a wealthy background;

In order to support his son, Anthony took redundancy from his position as an information technology manager and became a contractor; sometimes working up to three jobs at a time, while still attending all his son's races. Anthony later set up his own computer company, still managing Lewis.

via

I haven't driven it yet, but you're probably right.

You should, it's quality!

 

[dabz343]

I would consider bravery and talent to be two separate things

I was gently trying to persuade you to acknowledge the mental aspects of Hamilton as a talent (ability to perform at an exceptional level under immense pressure such as death/injury), but it seems you have lost traction and run into a barrier.

If you believe that mental/psychological skills are not talents and do not contribute to evaluating talent, then here is one more chance for you to get back on track.

 

[Spurgy 777]

I was gently trying to persuade you to acknowledge the mental aspects of Hamilton as a talent (ability to perform at an exceptional level under immense pressure such as death/injury), but it seems you have lost traction and run into a barrier.

If you believe that mental/psychological skills are not talents and do not contribute to evaluating talent, then here is one more chance for you to get back on track.

You were specifically talking about bravery, not having/overcoming fear of death/injury which as that GT Academy video shows is not a significant reason for needing a high mental strength at top levels of motorsport as it’s never mentioned. The psychological challenges, again pointed out in that video, are from the competitive nature of motorsport, to never give up even when things aren’t going well, to constantly perform at your best and out do your competition, etc. If that’s what you were talking about I would have agreed it was a talent and one that needs to be more developed for real racing than sim racing because there’s more pressure, both physically and with what’s at stake.

 

[dabz343]

If that’s what you were talking about I would have agreed it was a talent and one that needs to be more developed for real racing than sim racing because there’s more pressure, both physically and with what’s at stake.

So next time you compare and contrast the talents between Hamilton vs esport aliens, perhaps "The Psychology of Racing" by GT Academy could elevate the discussion? And maybe also include the real world factors like injury/death (to yourself/others) among other things that add tremendous PRESSURE to all professional racecar drivers and NOT esport drivers?

Your choice, but remember potential sponsors could be watching.

Btw, the video is a primer. It is no where near a comprehensive representation on all the Psychological Factors involved IRL. Try to make some correlations and defer the need to judge so black/white on what is "in" and "not in" the video. It may help to show that you have the ability to evolve and adapt (another psychological skill pertinent in racing).

Humility to accept failure and learn from it is another psychological talent, which Lewis Hamilton has among many other incredible talents...and I suspect that some top esport racers do as well...and some obviously don't.

 

[Knightsabre13]

If you look back at the last f1 championships it is quite obvious that Hamilton had the best car. The only true competition he has is his teammate and the ferraris. That is like a 4 man championship. No doubt he is a talented driver but I wouldn't call him one of the best in history.

I believe you are right, real talent is when you are still in your early 20's, get a drive in a top team, get given the last season's car that barely finished a race in the hands of the original driver, and then bring it home with, I think three podiums.....that was Schumacher, the team was Ferrari, and the car was Gerhart Barber's. That is talent no question. No manufactured racing driver, just raw talent, times HAVE changed, I know but you can't argue with his records.

Then just go play something else, instead of punting other drivers and ruining their racing. Nobody forces anyone to play GTS in Sport Mode...feel the need to punt at every corner? GT League is there.

I cannot stand any kind of defense of the serial punters. They just need to uninstall, or play single player.

Listen buddy, I was not defending them, I was using their lack of progressing because of the learning curve being to steep, as an example and justification of my perspective, I have suffered just as much at the hands of talentless drivers as most. Try to understand a post before you jump in with your guns blazing.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

It always comes down to this supposed "talent" nowadays

 

[EERIEISSSS]

After checking your stats, I have to question your definition of 'reasonable sim racer'. I'm pretty sure your definition is different to mine so you really need to look at yourself before looking for things to blame.

Find time to practise more and get some consistency under your belt. If you're still way off, look for tips on youtube. Plenty of good track guides out there.

I don't know if subliminal messaging is involved here but watch a lot of the tops driver's videos as well, especially the practise as watching the correct line lap after lap soon sinks in. I watch kie25, super gt, nicor, tidgney, z28 and eerieissss regularly and wish there were more. Great practise with zero effort.

Have a look at @EERIEISSSS youtube channel too. Starts the story using a pad with all assists turned on, to a first wheel and the struggle to learn it and a quest for A+ rating. He's now a solid A rating and still improving.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqPNuJUqqn9QBZiq1QEW_UA

Appreciate it mate, it is a struggle, but I’m getting there

 

[Oswald07]

I don't know how much time Lewis Hamilton spends playing GTS but it didn't seem to take him to long to put down a really good Nurburgring lap.

 

[golfer07840]

I don't know how much time Lewis Hamilton spends playing GTS but it didn't seem to take him to long to put down a really good Nurburgring lap.

I was left with the impression, watching that video, that was his first time playing it.

GT Sport that is. He did mention he had played other versions when he was younger.

 

[eran0004]

the physics and tire model are a yoke

Ceci n’est pas un physics and tire model​

Spoiler

That’s the yoke...

 

[Oswald07]

Ceci n’est pas un physics and tire model​

Spoiler

That’s the yoke...
View attachment 758593

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