Notes on Maximising A-Spec Points

  • Thread starter Famine
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I'm new at this, i would like to ask moderator :
Do we have any member that is connected / corresponded to the game developer? so we can have explanation to some 'mystery' on the game?
besides the gameplay itself, it is fun and challanging to solve the game parameter. But maybe some enlightment from developer would greatly useful

thank you
 
route_66
Sorry If it seems a bit cocky posting this, but it's taken me a month to get it that high and I'm proud of it, even if it's got me nothing and you all think i'm really sad.
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If I had those stats I would blow it up billboard size and post it all over every site I visit. Good job man.
 
Ok, I've not read this thread in it's full entirety (but I've read a good 80% of it)

I recently restarted my race game with the intent of scoring the most a-spec points I possibly can. I'm still early on in that game (barely past 10%), so the budget I have to tune ad play with my cars is still somewhat limited.
Anyways, I have some notes on A-spec points jotted down in my race log book that I thought would answer a few questions raised in this thread and make some things a bit more clear.

All of this was observed on the Japan Championship with the field consisting of:
'02 RX7 Spirit R
'97 NSX S Zero
'99 WRX STI
'03 RX8 Type S
'00 Skyline GT-R Vspec II​
I entered the championship (multiple times to test settings and observe effects to A-spec points totals) with a '98 300zx 2-seater.

My initial modifications were as follows:
Racing Brakes
Racing Suspension
Triple Clutch, Flywheel, Fully Customizeable LSD, Driveshaft
Racing Exhaust, Chip, Racing Intercooler, Stage 1 Turbo [not all equipped at the same time, only purchased them all so there would be some flexibility here during my testing]
Wing​


A-spec points are not affected by:
Suspension Kit (any type), or its settings
Transmission, Clutch, Flywheel, Differential, Driveshaft (any types), or their settings
Brake components, or their settings
Driver Aids
Rear Tires
Ballast Weight Bias
Race Location
Starting Position​

That is to say, A-spec points are determined only by:
Vehicle Weight (including ballast weight - but not it's location on the car)
Power
Torque
Front Tires
Wing Downforce Settings
Your car relative to the AI Cars in the field​

Notes on Downforce Settings:
  • The car was set to recieve 142 A-spec points with no wing equipped
  • With a wing installed, but front and rear downforce set to 0, 142 A-spec points still awarded
  • Wing at 30 | 30, points drop to 87
  • Wing at 15 | 15, I predicted pts to be 114, or 115 - was awarded 112 pts (meaning the relation between downforce and A-spec points deducted is nearly linear)
  • Wing at 30 | 0, 112pts
  • Wing at 0 | 30, 112pts
  • Wing at 10 | 20, 112pts
Therefore, the sum of your wing settings is used to determine A-spec pts. Where you place the downforce on the car is not of relevance.

Notes on Tires:
  • S2 | S2 - 142pts
  • S1 | S1 - 153 pts
  • S2 | S1 - 142 pts
  • S1 | S2 - 153 pts
Therefore, only the compound on the front tires is used by the game in determining A-spec pts.

Notes on Power and Torque.
Initially, with the car poised to recieve 142 A-spec pts, it had only racing exhaust and the stage 1 turbo equipped. The graph showed 337hp and 342ft lb tq.
By removing the stage 1 turbo and installing a racing intercooler and sports chip the graph changed to read 337hp and 348ft lb tq. A-spec pts dropped from 142 to 141.
Therefore, torque is considered in determining a-spec pts.​

Notes on Power, Torque, and Ballast Weight
-note, the car had no weight reductions done. It was at a stock weight of 1520kg.
At 1520kg, 337hp, and 342 ft lb tq, 142 a-spec pts awarded.
PWR = (337hp / 1.52tonne) = 221.71

At 1520kg, 372hp, and 378ft lb tq, 108 a-spec pts awarded.
PWR = 372 / 1.52 = 244.74
To attain same PWR as previously, ~158kg ballast must be added (to any location)
PWR = 372 / (1.52 + 0.158) = 221.69
This resulted in a 128pt race, not 142 as I had been expecting.
Therefore PWR is not a determining factor in A-spec points.

What about a relation between torque and weight?
At 1520kg, 337hp, and 342 ft lb tq, 142 a-spec pts awarded.
TWR = 342 / 1.52 = 225

At 1520kg, 372hp, and 378ft lb tq, 108 a-spec pts awarded.
TWR = 378 / 1.52 = 248.68
To attain same TWR as previously, 160kg ballast must be added (to any location)
TWR = 378 / (1.52 + 0.160) = 225
This resulted in a 128pt race, not 142 as I had been expecting.
Therefore TWR is not a determining factor in A-spec points.

Vehicle weight is an independent factor in determining A-spec points. It is not combined with power or torque. GT4 does not use PWR or TWR as a basis for determing A-spec points.​

So, then how is weight used?
The observations recorded here are specific to the 300zx I was using (quite possibly specific to the field of cars I was entered against as well).
At 1520kg, 337hp, and 342 ft lb tq, 142 a-spec pts awarded.

Added racing chip. At 1520kg (0 ballast), 351hp, 357 ft lb tq, 128pts awarded
With 100kg ballast added on, 141 A spec points awarded.
At 102kg, 141pts
At 103kg, 142pts ***important point.
At 110kg, 142pts
At 111kg, 143pts ***important point.
Therefore, I can predict for every 8kg of ballast installed or removed, I will be awarded or deducted 1 a spec point.

Check: 103kg / (141pts - 128pts) = 7.92kg / a-spec point
This is close enough that I mark my prediction as correct.

Check#2: back to base settings, 337hp, 342ft lb tq. But left on 103kg ballast.
resulted in a 155pt A-spec race. This is good news to me.
With 111kg ballast it was 156pts.

Therefore, 103kg = 13 a spec points at 337hp, 342 ft lb tq or 351hp, 357ft lb tq. 111kg = 14pts.
More proof the weight is independent of Power and Torque!

At 1520kg, 157hp, 361 ft lb tq, 122pts awarded. This represents a 20point deduction from my base settings.
20pts x 8kg/pt = 160kg of ballast should be required for a 142 A-spec pt race.
As it turned out, 160kg of ballast gave 143pts.
20pts x 7.92kg/pt = 158kg of ballast
This did give me 142pts​

I should have been able to go lower than 158kg ballast and still recieve 142points... but my notes stop here. Looks like there is still some round off error associated with my calculations. But because this set of calculations is only good for 1 car with a specific field of cars I'm not too concerned with going back to correct them.

By this point I had proved what I had been trying to prove. PWR and TWR are not used to determine a-spec points. Weight is used as a separate and independent factor in whatever equation PD devised to set A-spec point totals.



Some Conclusions:

What can you learn from this?
By following similar calculations you can predict how much ballast will be required to attain a certain amount of A-spec points. It could be used much like reward weight.
By knowing which mods and settings will affect your A-spec points you can tune your cars more successfully. ie. You can modify your cars extensively without affecting your points total. You can take out high powered cars with significantly lower powered cars or heavier cars.​

What is still unknown to me?
effects of chassis refreshing and roll cage. (I was restarting all the time to get the same field of cars for my tests - a chassis refresh was never required)
effects of things like AYC's and VCD's to AWD cars.​
 
Hi BL, although this is well documented in the other 200 pt thread, this is a nice write up. Chassis refresh/roll cage etc do not affect aspec (easily tested if you buy a used car).

In summary, Aspec is affected only by; Total Weight, hp, Front Tyres & downforce.


Steven
 
I'm certain that torque is a factor as well - but it's more than possible that the numbers I got showing so are hampered by round-off error either at my end, or in the game.


anyways, ya. I realized after posting that much of what I discovered for myself was a far less complete re-hashing of much of Wild Cobra's work. I gotta get myself out of that drift forum a bit more often to get some fresh air - I might have seen his A-spec Point data thread sooner in that case.
 
i read this entire thread, wow, sensory overload. i never went to grammar school. Hell i never went to much school. but i guess we all missed the simple point at the begining. power/weight/torque/tonne/ whatev. if a car weighs less, its power has less mass to get moving and/or keep moving. Famine, your a-spec explanation was very helpfull to me, thanks for putting your time into it!!
 
I printed out the following and find it generally works as a rough guide.

A-Spec Point Data; Values, Races, and Modifications at https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=70995

But also, are there any cars which gain more gears when you fit a modified gearbox (transmission) ?

And, if so, has anyone ever tried to see (ie. confirmed or disproved) whether getting an extra gear reduces the A-spec points you can win? It might make some sense and might explain why the Chaparrals can win so many points.
 
Famine
... Some of the gonks may answer "its easi just get a wurser car than the ai lololol !11!!111!" ...
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Sorry for quoting this, but it was über-maxibest ridiculously funny.

The "!11!!111!"... LMAO x 1000.
:dopey: :dopey: :dopey:
 
SportWagon
I printed out the following and find it generally works as a rough guide.

A-Spec Point Data; Values, Races, and Modifications at https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=70995

But also, are there any cars which gain more gears when you fit a modified gearbox (transmission) ?

And, if so, has anyone ever tried to see (ie. confirmed or disproved) whether getting an extra gear reduces the A-spec points you can win? It might make some sense and might explain why the Chaparrals can win so many points.
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Gearbox mods make no difference. In most cases a FC transmission adds an extra gear ratio.
 
Thanks for the number-of-gears confirmation.

Boundary Layer
. . .
Therefore, I can predict for every 8kg of ballast installed or removed, I will be awarded or deducted 1 a spec point.
. . .
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Okay, you do modify that prediction later.

But I've got an interesting observation.

  • Chaparral 2J (vacuum cleaner), essentially stock, with R3/R3 tires
  • World Circuits Infineon Race
  • field: R92CP, C9, CLK-AMG, R390, RX7LM
  • stock weight give 194pts
  • +14kg gives 200pts
  • +13kg gives 199pts
  • +1kg gives 194pts
  • +2kg gives 195pts
The effect of a little weight on the A-spec ante appears non-linear, as do other factors, AFAICT. When you're a bigger way from "even", small amounts of any changes seem to make a bigger difference.
 
SportWagon
The effect of a little weight on the A-spec ante appears non-linear, as do other factors, AFAICT. When you're a bigger way from "even", small amounts of any changes seem to make a bigger difference.
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It has been noted in places that the system gets extremely non-linear below 10pts and above 190pts - this may explain your apparently weird findings.
 
the A and B-spec points are for the worldcourses, and that sort of races, if you enter a race, like "familycup", you will see a number under the cup emblem, 5 credits i think.
so it is for paying the entry to familycup, racemeting and so on...!;)
 
SportWagon
...The effect of a little weight on the A-spec ante appears non-linear, as do other factors, AFAICT. When you're a bigger way from "even", small amounts of any changes seem to make a bigger difference.
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Actually 98.94% of the variation in a-spec points can be directly attributed to the variation in weight in the values listed by you. If a-spec points were reported in decimals this would probably be close to 99.99% of the variation.

If:
y = a-spec points and
x = increase in weight over stock then
y = 0.4158x + 193.91

Note - this equation only applies to this example - there will be a unique equation for each car and each field.

The problem with a-spec calculations is that they unfairly favour light cars. I have not tested but I would guess that of two cars with the same PWR the lighter would earn more points all other things being equal. It should be the other way around.
 
Is it just me (I doubt it), or do you find that the A-spec points awarded are REALLY inconsistent with respect to actual difficulty?

I have raced in 200 point races that were relatively easy to win, yet have been slaughtered in races that were giving 20, 30 or less.

While I am certain that some of the "easier" races I have lost were due to my ignorance of car, track or both :dunce: - it seems as though the criteria are inconsistent.

What is your experience?
 
Black Flag
Is it just me (I doubt it), or do you find that the A-spec points awarded are REALLY inconsistent with respect to actual difficulty?
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Yes, but the game is very consistent in regards to the formula used to calculate A-spec points fo a race. The problem is the formula is flawed in that it does not take in account all aspects of a cars performance, and it also is effected by the quality of all five AI cars, instead of just the best AI car in the field.

This allows you to exploit the A-spec system by using certain cars and mods that give you a significant advantage. In addition, the field of AI cars will play a big role in how many A-spec points you might get.

For instance, if the randomly selected field only has one high A-spec AI car and five low A-spec AI cars, you will not only have fewer A-spec points, but you'll have a tough fight on your hands.

On the other hand, if the randomly selected field has five AI cars with similar A-spec values then you will usually get more A-spec points (depending on your car's A-spec value VS the AI average), and depending on the car you use, will give you a better chance of winning those high A-spec races.
 
^ Absolutely true.

Digital-Nitrate
For instance, if the randomly selected field only has one high A-spec AI car and five low A-spec AI cars, you will not only have fewer A-spec points, but you'll have a tough fight on your hands.
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Best examples can be found in the historic races.
If there's a 427 and a Fiat 500 in the same lineup then turning up with a 'reasonable/good' car => low points due to the Fiat.
If the rest of AI is reasonable and the lineup contains a rabbit the A spec goes up fast. But you wont be able to obtain 200 against the 427, it's just too fast.

AMG.
 
i had a tough fight with the silvia sisters, that s10 is hard, but if you increase camber and lower your car, i think it gives you more points, it tries to judge about better settings im pretty sure, or if you put 15DF on both you get more.
 
Tulok
i had a tough fight with the silvia sisters, that s10 is hard, but if you increase camber and lower your car, i think it gives you more points
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No, it does not

Tulok
it tries to judge about better settings im pretty sure
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Suspension and drivetrain settings have no effect on a-spec points

Tulok
or if you put 15DF on both you get more.
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Yes, reducing downforce does increase a-spec points.

All of the above is clearly stated in this thread - perhaps you should have spent a few minutes reading the thread and then perhaps you could have done a little more testing to see what actually happens.
 
Famine
What ARE you flapping about, BBM?

It's a mathematical operator. Power-to-weight ratio IS the ratio of power to weight. The latter is reduced to 1 and the former is reduced by the same proportion to deliver a result of the amount of former per unit latter. Power-to-weight ratio IS the amount of power per unit weight. As it increases so the car's potential accelerative ability - gearing and torque permitting - increase. Power-to-weight ratio IS measured in horsepower (or equivalent) per tonne (or equivalent).

In GT3 you are given a "PWR" part of your car's stats, and it's actually a WPR. Power is reduced to 1 and weight is reduced in proportion to this to give the amount of weight per unit power. WPR is measured in kilograms (or equivalent) per horsepower (or equivalent) and decreases as the car's potential accelerative ability - gearing and torque permitting - increases.

This is not a grammatical statement, it is a mathematical statement and happens to be 100% accurate. It isn't ego-stroking or arrogance - it's simply an attempt to stop the usual questions of why increasing PWR means a faster car (broadly speaking). But you've managed to conjure up an argument all of your own. It's a pity to see a long-standing member more interested in creating conflict than reasoning why the point was made.

Oh, by the way, if you think it's "Capuchino", you need to go back to grammar school.

Please bear in mind that this thread is now part of the "Look Here Before You Ask", for people to come and see information regarding aspects of the game. I don't think they want to see you attempting to pick me up on a matter of grammar which doesn't exist.


Trilan - I've yet to come across a non-power, non-weight altering part which affects A-spec points in an identical AI field. In fact, nitrous has no effect either...


YZF - 250 points are garnered in every Mission Hall race, but the maximum in a proper race is 200 points.
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Yes, I quoted this to say that if one spells the Suzuki minicar's name as "Capuchino" then he should instead brush up on spelling, as it is written out properly as "Capuccino."

Again, just a small error...
 
superberkut
Yes, I quoted this to say that if one spells the Suzuki minicar's name as "Capuchino" then he should instead brush up on spelling, as it is written out properly as "Capuccino."

Again, just a small error...
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"Cappuccino", technically.

Odd of you to bring up an old... errr... "discussion point". BadBatsuMaru and I got along quite well after that.
 
I just managed to beat a Mercedes-Benz CLK Race Car, Nissan R92CP, the other Nissan supercar, a Gillet Vertigo, and a Toyota Minolta 88C-V in the "Like the Wind" race with my modded 1999 Nissan Skyline GT-R N1. I was pretty impressed with my car, but I couldn't of beaten them without the help of a little drafting :D I got 200 A-spec pts. for that.
 
Sorry to bring this back up, but Famine, have you considered redoing some tests with the new knowledge that A-Spec points involve the whole grid and not just the lead car? Perhaps you cold try the tests after reseting the console to ensure the grid was the same. I'm sure some of the info in the A-Spec Point Data; Values, Races, and Modifications thread could prove very useful. I bet after enough testing we could find out a formula for finding the "A-Spec value" of the cars as listed in that thread (assuming GT4 uses a formula-they might just have a set value for each car that they pulled out of the air).

I could do some testing as well, although I don't know what information to look for at the moment. I'd love to see your response. :)
 
Let me explain my observation, trying my best not to be confusing (as is often the case). You enter the race, A-spec pts are not high enough so you add ballast & do everything within the setup for max A-pts for the car (see effected items listed above earlier). You re-enter the race against the same cars, still not enough points. Not even close to 200.

Here is where it gets curious. Take this car & exit the race to the Event screen re-entered same track over & over only to get less A-points than the original attempt.

What I've noticed is after the second attempt at the same race & maximized A-Spec car. If at this point your still not getting enough points, then you have to go to the garage again, remove ballast, upgrade tires & maybe add wing or HP (all of this varies). Then exit to Event screen, re-inter race, go to garage, remove everything for Max A-pts, re-enter race - same cars/opponents.

At this point A-spec points will be higher than your initial attempt (most the time). Anyone else notice this variation in lineup car upon entering races for max A-spec'n?

It seems to me that whatever the criteria for your competition is, it's effected by what & how you enter. Enter a race with a car that can't be A-spec'd higher (maxed out) & you end up getting competition such that your A-spec goal of 200 pts is un-reachable. The car has to be over-rated upon entering & then A-spec maxed in order to get 200 pts in some events. Even then there is a list of races where 200 are not possible.

Observations, Feedback?

wW
 
So, if anyone else want to help collect data and draw some conclusions about GT4's A-Spec points, please let me know. It seems nobody saw this last time. I hope someone does reply though, because I don't want to bump it again.
 
When trying to maximise points which tyres offer the most points? Ie, if I put N1s on the front do I get more points than S1s and R1s with the same line up?
 

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