Nurburgring Race Series - Week 8 - Lotus Motorsport Elise

[Dave_George]

Hello all and welcome to week 8 of the NRS!​

*VOTING OVER*​

Due to the technical problems the site was suffering yesterday (Im not sure of any details) this is the first opportunity to post week 8's cars choices, so apologies for the time you have missed, but hopefully enough votes will still come in to make the voting system work 👍

This week i wanted to do something for the lightweight cars that put out some series power to weight ratios and also provide fine handling characteristics.

NRS WEEK 8​

OPEL SPEEDSTER TURBO
LOTUS MOTORSPORT ELISE
SUZUKI GSX-R/4
CATERHAM 7 FIREBLADE
ASL GARAIYA
​

As usual PM me your top three choices by 9pm GMT 5/12/2005 👍

cheers all

Dave

VOTING RESULTS!​

Hi everyone, the votes are in, thanks for the speedy responses 👍​

In joint 3rd place with 11 points each - The ASL Garaiya and the Suzuki GSX-R4

In 2nd place with 15 points - The Caterham Fireblade

In 1st place with 17 points - The Lotus Motorsport Elise

​

This week is like the truck week a slight excursion from the normal cars to try and include the really low weight machines that dont fit in the usual run of the mill categories due to their superior power to weight ratios, however despite that will this weeks machine be faster than the CSL that went last week???....

Specific Tuning for the Elise Motorsport :

Weight reduction stage 2
Rigidity increase is driver option
semi race flywheel
twin plate clutch
Full customised transmission
Semi Race suspension system
S2 tyres
Racing Brakes


Oil change
Race chip
Port polish and engine balance
Stage 2 Turbocharger system
Semi race exhaust

Power in your tuning screen = 316Hp
Weight in your garage = 658Kgs

Power to weight this week of 480BHP/TON

With such a massive power to weight ratio the Elise should blitz everything that has come before it, but will that be the case?? Despite the low weight and high power the car is still manageable and good fun, the racing transmission is there to stop it hitting the rev limiter on standard gears, I would prefer if everyone leaves the gears on auto 13 setting which is good for 180MPH on the back straight but if you really must spend time messing with gears then so be it......

I think the object of this week is to see how such a lightweight car responds to suspension tuning and what differences there are from last weeks CSL which was a lot heavier, lets see if we can master this machine!

The usual rules apply, for anyone new or unsure:

Race in GT mode/world circuits/free run 👍
2 wheels on track at all times
No cheating
Rumbles and concrete are part of track
T times only to be discussed

Im sure most know the score by now

Good luck everyone and enjoy the racing!!

cheers

Dave

 

[Dave_George]

Results are in post 1 everyone, enjoy!

regards

Dave

 

[RedOak]

Oh man, the easy one of the bunch

THis should be fun tho... this car grabs tarmac like no other... Can't wait to give this one a go!

 

[Kolyana]

Man this surprises me ... I was sure you knuckleheads would vote for the Catterham ... I originally selected something else, realized that you'd all go with the Fireblade so put that as my top choice: "May as well vote with the masses, Koly, that way you can't be disappointed".

And you all go vote for something else :grr: :shakesfistangrily: :miffed:

 

[Dr_Watson]

doh, i really wanted the gsx... that car rocks.
+ the elise is a real bugger at the ring... skips around like a stone on a paint shaker.

 

[Steve57]

OK the Lotus, my second choice. I picked the ASL Garaiya as first choice.

Wow giving the Lotus a stage 2 weight reduction, this thing is going to need guide
ropes and tent pegs to keep it on the track .

Good luck to all 👍

Steve

 

[goixoye]

Specific Tuning for the Elise Motorsport :

Weight reduction stage 2
Rigidity increase is driver option
semi race flywheel
twin plate clutch
Full customised transmission

Oil change
Race chip
Port polish and engine balance
Stage 2 Turbocharger system
Semi race exhaust

I think the object of this week is to see how such a lightweight car responds to suspension tuning...

I feel like I must be stoopid...I thought maybe the stock suspension was adjustable but it's not. Which suspension are we supossed to use?

And why is it that this thing has a wing but downforce can't be adjusted?

 

[Dave_George]

I feel like I must be stoopid...I thought maybe the stock suspension was adjustable but it's not. Which suspension are we supossed to use?

And why is it that this thing has a wing but downforce can't be adjusted?

My mistake well pointed out 👍

Amended to Semi Race suspension system

regards

Dave

 

[jmgyro]

which tires do we use?

 

[Steve57]

which tires do we use?

just pipped me asking that lol

Steve

 

[goixoye]

OK I spent Sunday trying to learn to tune with the assistance of some GTP "expert" help. I worked with a BMW 2002 Turbo and was able to knock 2+ seconds off a default tuned car at Deep Forest. I've applied my learnings to the Elise, which by the way seems to be one tough devil to tame. We'll see if a Deep Forest tune is any good on the Nurb and see if I can gain any ground on Koly...who is apparently a better driver than I am even with tears in her eyes...but I was a little closer than usual. Now that I given you the well deserved pat on the back I'll see if I can kick........

 

[Soyfu]

will this weeks machine be faster than the CSL that went last week???....

Umm... hell yeah! :-D

 

[VEXD]

dammit.... tyres?

Humph

Cmon Dave!!!

Which rubber?

I bet its S2's again.... i mean this is a series..... and it does have a pattern....
👍

 

[goixoye]

My little red razorback devil is a blast to drive. I feel like my Deep Forest tuning was an advantage...at the very least it helped familiarize me with the car. My 2nd lap was clean. I might give it a go in default tune trim just to see. Lotsa time left this week to improve.

T10: 6'53.335 about 22 secs slower than last week's BMW

 

[Dave_George]

Apologies I have edited the spec, to include S2 tyres and Racing brakes.....

Im wondering why the elise is slower than the BMW?? It in theory should be much quicker......any ideas??

regards

Dave

 

[VEXD]

Its British?

👎

oooohhhh that should start some comments...

 

[OnlyMe]

Its British?

👍 👍

 

[Steve57]

Apologies I have edited the spec, to include S2 tyres and Racing brakes.....

Im wondering why the elise is slower than the BMW?? It in theory should be much quicker......any ideas??

regards

Dave

Guessed the S2 Tyres, but racing brakes !!!! It took me 200km to work out my
brake markers, now its start all over , Dave bend over, and consider your bum
kicked .
My best T10 with the standard brakes is 6.46.1 and I was pretty happy with that
lap, getting to grips with the settings, have the Lotus feeling pretty good, suprisingly.

These settings seem to work for me 4.3/6.1----95/95----4/2----3.0/3.0, settles
the car down a lot and makes it very drivable for me, give it a try and tell me what
you think, I know set up is an individual thing but it would be good to get a comment
or two good or bad 👍.

Why the Lotus is slower than the BMW, I think we need a physics major to explain
that one.

AHH well back to finding new brake markers now, Dave !!!

Steve

 

[Dave_George]

Guessed the S2 Tyres, but racing brakes !!!! It took me 200km to work out my
brake markers, now its start all over , Dave bend over, and consider your bum
kicked .
My best T10 with the standard brakes is 6.46.1 and I was pretty happy with that
lap, getting to grips with the settings, have the Lotus feeling pretty good, suprisingly.

These settings seem to work for me 4.3/6.1----95/95----4/2----3.0/3.0, settles
the car down a lot and makes it very drivable for me, give it a try and tell me what
you think, I know set up is an individual thing but it would be good to get a comment
or two good or bad 👍.

Why the Lotus is slower than the BMW, I think we need a physics major to explain
that one.

AHH well back to finding new brake markers now, Dave !!!

Steve

Steve to be honest the brakes dont make so much of a difference as you might think, as we used them last week we will again for each forthcoming week now.....
Strangely my braking points seem earlier than the M3 which i cant understand, with so little weight i was sure they would be later.....


I will try your settings tonight, im not sure how yours drive but you have got the rear spring rate higher than front but the opposite with the damping..... im not so sure thats a good idea but will try them for you.

Sorry for not remembering a few things on the spec but its not the easiest thing to do after a long day....go easy on me!!

regards

Dave

 

[RedOak]

hmm Dave.. why does my Lotus only has 245 HP after mods while you post 315HP? Did i buy the wrong Elise?

 

[Dave_George]

hmm Dave.. why does my Lotus only has 245 HP after mods while you post 315HP? Did i buy the wrong Elise?

Im not sure, which one did you buy??!

The Motorsport Elise is a series 1 model and can be found in Lotus dealers legendary cars section, it comes standard with 200BHP so with the mods it should read the whole 315.

Regards

Dave

 

[RedOak]

ahh crap, i think i bought the standard one in the retail section... 45k...

 

[jmgyro]

always check with http://db.gtrp.de/gt4_compare.php
before you buy. has all the specs to judge by.

 

[RedOak]

Oh man! Oh man! although the car is definatly a bit slower then the CLS, with some good tweaks, this car sure goes!

Got myself a wooping 6'43 at T10... oh yeah! i'm about 4-6 seconds slower then the CLS overall, which is pretty good. Got about 200km done and i'm already satisfied with the results. This car is fun!

setting wise, i brought it down some, with a 94/92 suspension. Droped spring rate by .5 front and rear and my camps are all the way up to 3.5/3.3.

Fun little thing and in bright Orange

 

[Steve57]

Steve to be honest the brakes dont make so much of a difference as you might think, as we used them last week we will again for each forthcoming week now.....
Strangely my braking points seem earlier than the M3 which i cant understand, with so little weight i was sure they would be later.....


I will try your settings tonight, im not sure how yours drive but you have got the rear spring rate higher than front but the opposite with the damping..... im not so sure thats a good idea but will try them for you.

Sorry for not remembering a few things on the spec but its not the easiest thing to do after a long day....go easy on me!!

regards

Dave

Dont worry mate I was only stirring the pot .
As for the brakes, there doesnt seem to be a lot of diference between the Normal
and the Racing Brakes, and yes I'm braking way earlier in the Lotus than I was in
the BMW. Considering the weight differential this does seem rather odd to me too.

Now how can I explain my thinking on the rear springs and damper issue ?

It just feels better ok
I will be interested to hear your thoughts, though basically all I've done is soften the
springs Front and Rear and the rear dampers a bit softer than the fronts, just seems
to tame the rear end a bit, but still give a nice predictable off the throttle oversteer
for getting the initial turn in to corners, probably has too much understeer for you
"Top Guns" .
As has been said already settings are an individual thing, I have tried some of those
settings posted by you folks, and can only marvel at how you can drive them around
the Ring at such a pace while they feel almost alien to me.

Steve

 

[goixoye]

Vexd PM'd me about his tuning comments in last week's main thread...I had not seen them because I stopped checking the thread after I submitted my time and then the results thread came out...

Vexd, I appreciate your comments but I suppose I am just plain tuning stupid. I guess your comments are maybe too general to be real helpful...I need specifics. I did find a couple of sources and devoted most of my game playing time on Sunday to fiddling with tuning. In a perfect world I would have a tuning mentor who could drive the same car as me and work through the tuning items one at a time...with coments like "set front springs to ?????....notice these effects...then set them to this and now notice these effects...and so on". That's not practical but maybe someone could put together some car specific notes on how they go about arriving at the setting they choose.

I PM'd .duck. and he was able to refer me to a source...which I printed and then deleted so I'm not sure of the source but it was a well written piece that went through Deep Forest and discussed what a car was doing at certain curves and what to do to correct problems. I really feel good about the tuning I did to my BMW 2002 Turbo (the piece was not written around any particular car). I chose that car because it seemed like a very challenging FR car. I tried to apply this to the Elise with favorable resuts (IMO). The only trouble is that with the semi-race suspension we're allowed here it seems I'm only able to partially tune the car to my liking...I was able to work out most of the bugs in the BMW but only some in the Elise...but I am starting to understand a little tuning "cause and effect" so to speak...whereas before I had no clue what to do for certain problems.

I need to try the Elise at the Nurb with default settings to see if my Deep Forest tune is actually better. Looks like my current time is relatively slow compared to other folks that I'm usually more competitve against. I do need to add the racing brakes but I doubt that will have a significant effect...although during tuning at Deep Forest I remember wishing I had the racing brakes because the brakes on the BMW 2002 were sooooo much better.

My opinion is that with cars with the same weight to power ratio a car with more HP is going to be superior....I think that's why last week's BMW is faster than this week's Elise. Maybe the momentum thing helps too? Isn't momentum = mass x velocity? Physics was such a long time ago...and even then I had trouble with it.

 

[Dave_George]

Now how can I explain my thinking on the rear springs and damper issue ?

It just feels better ok
I will be interested to hear your thoughts, though basically all I've done is soften the
springs Front and Rear and the rear dampers a bit softer than the fronts, just seems
to tame the rear end a bit, but still give a nice predictable off the throttle oversteer
for getting the initial turn in to corners, probably has too much understeer for you
"Top Guns" .
As has been said already settings are an individual thing, I have tried some of those
settings posted by you folks, and can only marvel at how you can drive them around
the Ring at such a pace while they feel almost alien to me.

Steve

Hi Steve, had a go with the settings you posted....not bad at all, although there was slightly too much understeer for me but ingeneral felt good 👍 Using them as a base i applied two sessions of tuning and knocked 16 seconds off my T10 time but i think that most of that was due to being able to use most of the revs and push on a bit harder now, settings are 4.5/6 95/95 1/2 and 3/3, the car feels to me quite neutral and softer which gives me the confidence to push, but like the CSL last week i just dont have any confidence in the front end at all....

Watching the replay the car is still bouncing around a bit, prob due to the low weight and coming out of the downhill jump at Pflantzgarten II the rear end just always wants to swap places with the front, so im not sure where to go with my tuning now, maybe some adjustments to ride height and springs, the damping feels good to me, im sure the problem with the elise and CSL im feeling is down to springs so will keep you all posted as to my findings.

My T times which are im sure i can considerably improve on are

T2 1'22.312
T4 2'44.218
T7 4'43.503
T10 6'35.492

Noticed i was only running 309BHP at the end of that lap so an oil change already needed! Not sure how much difference that will make though

Cheers

Dave

 

[Soyfu]

Im wondering why the elise is slower than the BMW?? It in theory should be much quicker......any ideas??

The lower weight does make it QUICKER (higher power/weight ratio) but the lower power makes it SLOWER. I actually haven't driven this one yet, but I'm guessing I won't be hitting 180 on the straight, right?

 

[goixoye]

Well the racing brakes do make a significant difference.

T10: 6'38.220 (-15 sec)

I blew the lap in the corner just before the pit entry but on restarts I was ahead of this lap by 0.8 at T1 so I'm confident I can bring home a clean lap with at least (or most?) a T10 of 6'38. I don't know how much of this is the brakes vs getting more familiar with the car. I do like my setup much better than the than default.
So, for now, I'm only about 7 secs slower than last week's BMW...and I'm competitive with the normal group.

 

[VTRacing]

goixoye:

Check the results and feedback thread for a post from me about how I arrived at my CSL settings.

Maybe it could help.